C'mon Ted. You have simply provided a rehash of what you have said from the beginning.

You were responding to CR's reply to a new allegation against Arpaio - that is, that he kept a sick man locked up without charges for several months. Now that the man has found treatment in Colorado, publicity hound Arpaio bristles and blusters and wants him back with charges.

2. Is he, “doing it right as Scarborough (a conservative) proclaims or does he make you want to become an “ACLU lawyer” as Tucker Carlson (another conservative) suggests?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/...t.ap/index.html

How do you defend Arpaio's latest, but probably not the last, episode described in CNN article above as "doing it right."

I’m not going to let you avoid the question, Ted

Come on please- you yourself said he makes no decisions on “who” is locked up – or for how long. How can this be serious. If the man was sick then why did the court and the judge allow him to be held – story stinks of horse poop.



So what did he do?

“Robert Daniels, 27, has an multiple drug-resistant form of TB. He was placed in a jail ward at Maricopa Medical Center in Phoenix last August under court order after medical authorities complained that he had endangered others.”

Joe did not do this all he did was:
“Though Daniels wasn't charged with a crime, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said his office was examining whether Daniels endangered others by disobeying instructions from health officials such as wearing a mask.”

Which is exactly what was perused with the dope that got on the plane with TB and no mask. How can you have an issue with this?

And of course the ACLU will defend the guys “rights” – how about protecting the public?
The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit claiming Daniels was being treated like a criminal while in the Phoenix hospital and his rights were being violated

What you haven't addressed, Ted, is why Arpaio wants this guy back now that he's getting treatment in a Colorado hospital. Could it be that his old fart is using Daniels for publicity? Isn't the question of whether Daniels is brought back for charges one for the courts, not the sheriff?

Yes and no doubt Joe is getting in on the publicity. No one ever said he doesn’t like the coverage. So what?

He does his jab, and does it well. If not for him lots of bad guys would be back on the street sooner doing damage to the rest of the people in the County. To say he does not make a difference is garbage. We could only wish that every Sherriff was as dedicated to getting the criminals off the street.

Ok, let' try again. Daniels is receiving treatment in a Jewish hospital in Colorado. The chances that he'll be back in Arizona's custody are nil - about as likely as Paris Hilton serving time in his hell hole. Ain't gonna happen.

So, you see no moral problem with Arpaio getting publicity at the expense of a seriously ill man? You are defending that, Ted

No I guess I just see a man who felt it was ok to infect the public with a serious disease. This fool should be jailed – how you have sympathy for him is beyond me.

Typical of Dems you shed tears over the criminal and forget the victims.

From your post:

Robert Daniels, 27, has an multiple drug-resistant form of TB. He was placed in a jail ward at Maricopa Medical Center in Phoenix last August under court order after medical authorities complained that he had endangered others.

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said his office was examining whether Daniels endangered others by disobeying instructions from health officials such as wearing a mask.

How many peoples lives did trhis clown risk? How about them Bof?

And it seems the dope likes the news coverage himself.

I feel no sorrow for this man.

Since last summer, Daniels has been locked in a bare room on the fourth floor of the Maricopa County Hospital in Phoenix. It's a jail unit for criminals who need medical care. But Daniels has never been charged with a crime. He's there because he's been judged a menace to public health.
While Daniels hates his incarceration, he said he enjoys the attention he has gotten lately. He ran down the list of news organizations that have called his cell phone lately.

Daniels is a 27-year-old drifter. Born in Russia,

Nurses watched him take his morning pills. They lectured him not to skip evening doses, taught him how to give himself intravenous medicine, and warned him to put on a face mask when he was in confined public spaces, like a store or bus.
Daniels admitted that he didn't.

But when public health workers asked him whether he wore a mask, he lied: "I already said that I was sorry. But that's not enough."
Daniels also didn't take a high-powered antibiotic when he was supposed to, leading to his becoming "extensively" drug resistant.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=10874970


So tell me Bof how would you feel if this man coughed in your face – or the face of your kids.?

I would be concerned Ted, but glad the guy is getting treatment and out of Texas - in that order. Who knows what anyone who coughs on you has?

The point you are evading is that this guy isn't going back to Arizona. Even if he did end up back there. it would be by court order or personal choice , not sheriff blowhard's edict.

Bob Dylan must have written "Blowin' in the Wind" with Arpaio in mind. That's all the man does and most of it is just to be seen and heard. It's called grandstanding, showboating, etc. I hope it feeds his ample ego adequately.

As I predicted, jackboot Joe is back in the news – today!



http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/95793

Joe Scarborough was only half right. It seems Ol’ Joe only “does it right” when someone calls his hand.

Yes but once again Joe leads the way in “doing it right”

He said this

“. “I want them treated like U.S.-born,” Arpaio said.

County employees with authorized identification also can get in without filling out the forms.

The rest of the visitors are run through a federal database to determine if they are illegal immigrants.

“If we find someone here illegally, we’re going to arrest them,” he said.”

And I will bet you dollars to donuts that is exactly what the majority of Americans support as well as the people in his area.

This while the idiots in SF and Newark could care less.


Good for Joe.

Yeah, right Ted. He said he wanted naturalized citizens treated like natural born citizens, after someone called his hand for not treating them the same.

Did you even bother to read the whole article - it wasn't very long.

He was wrong to treat the naturalized citizen differently and he changed his policy. Point is he corrected the error

He is very right is to check others to see if they are illegal aliens. More states and cities are now doing this as well as forcing employers to verify workers status – which I believe is a very good thing. – unlike some mayors that are glad to look the other way or even help conceal illegal aliens.

The point is, he corrected it after an interpreter was not allowed in the jail. Why did he treat natural and naturalized citizens differently in the first place? Did he change his policy because he wanterd to be fair or because he had to? This is sort of like Michael Vick's coming to Jesus after he got caught.

BTW: The only difference the Constitution makes in a natural born an a naturalized citizen is in eligibility for president and vice president.

Arpaio had to be practicing racial profiling and in the process violated, at least, the spirit of the constitution regarding treatment of natural born vs. naturalized citizensa.

For those who defend Joe Arpaio's tactics and don't think he's a media whore; and also those who decry dogfighting as a less than serious offense (sometimes the same folks), I offer you the following:

But, see, there's a problem. Now they're saying that the so-called cocaine isn't, but we found some pot!!! Arpaio is just itching to have his own famous dogfighter in his tent prison so he can garner more media time.

Granted, with the number of offenses this guy has racked up, he deserves to go to jail. But it was mistreatment of dogs that got Sherriff Joe's attention!

I am sure it all got Joe’s attention and who cares if he likes the spotlight? How many DAs and other in law enforvcement do the same.

What counts is that he is tough on crime and when told he had to “let em out” because there was no jail space – he MADE space and kept them IN.

I understand "tough on crime” is not popular with the left, and we can see the results in cities like San Francisco where the crime rate (which they tried to hide) is a DISASTER.

Again – Give me Joe any day.

Can you back this up with some solid statistics -DOJ type stuff - that shows where San Francisco ranks in crime rate compared to other cities?

BTW:

Isn’t it amazing Ted, that when you compare the crime rate per 100,000 population, based on 2005 figures, that Phoenix Arizona (Maricopa County) leads San Francisco, California in every crime category except robbery.

From that standpoint it doesn't appear Ol' Jackboot Joe is having much of an impact.

Phoenix vs. San Francisco

Here are comparisons for the two larget cities in Texas.

Dallas vs. San Francisco

Houston vs. San Francisco

You lost me here. Joe and the police make the arrests and the courts have to jail them. We know the AZ folks would rather let em go than build jails because this is why Joe built his tent city jail.

AZ also has a larger illegal immigrant problem (per capita) than SF imo. An AZ cop just killed by a man with 12 arrests and previously deported.


Looks like Dallas and Houston have the same problems.

Ted if you cannot take the tools I provided in my last post and use them to compare crime rates in Phoenix and San Francisco, then there isn't much I can do for you.

I get the impression, however, that when you can't refute evidence, you simply choose to play dumb. At least I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Since I've actually had the pleasure of visiting "Tent City", I figured I'd add my experience to the debate.

I was there from June 12th to July 12th, 2006 due to a DUI conviction of which I'm not proud of and after my visit to the tents would certainly never repeat.

As for the "prisoners shown using the toilets", I'm guessing they were probably showing a holding cell. Most of these are a room about 10x10 with a toilet, which is also your drinking fountain. It's not uncommon to have up to 20 prisoners in these rooms sometimes for 12 hours or more. So, when one of these 20 guys have "to go", they do so in front of everyone there and usually there's no toilet paper, or if there is, someone is using the roll as a pillow.

I'm not sure how many of you have ever visited a place like AZ during the summer months, but 120ºF is not an uncommon occurrence, and 115ºF is pretty average. Granted, you are in army tents most of the time, however you're not allowed to pull the sides of the tent down because then the officers can't see if someone's smoking, fighting, etc... So, that sun beats down on the concrete and the metal bunk beds, which heats up those tents beyond the ambient temperature outside. They caught a lot of hell for this at the beginning, so they installed a fan in each of the tents, which....sounds more humane, right? Well, the fact is they installed the fans in the top corner of the tents and if you remember your science classes from school you know that heat rises, making those fans a virtual blow dryer.

As for the "pink underwear". That is your uniform. Pink boxers, pink socks, and when you're transported anywhere, you get to wear some fashionable pink handcuffs. You also get to wear the classic white and black striped clothes you see from old films. A lot of people laugh at this, and so did I when I first heard about it. But, what you'll never hear on the news is that you're not allowed to get clean clothes until you work. There are many jobs you can do while you're there, from cleaning the bathrooms, to working in the kitchens, to working off site as sort of a community service type thing. I had the privilege of working at the West Side Food Bank in Phoenix. The problem is, you have no control over when or where you work. They didn't assign me that job until 9 days after I arrived. That's 9 days in the same boxers, socks, etc.... in some pretty intense heat. Because of this, I got a staph infection, or so they called it, in my underarm. I had about 15-20 large pustules, some rising a half inch above the skin. These were so painful that I could barely move my arm. So, I tried to get into medical for treatment. The way that works is you have to fill out an application of sorts, hand them in, and wait, sometimes a couple of days before they call your name over the loudspeaker. Well guess what? They didn't have any of the forms that I needed to fill out for 3 days. No form, no visit to medical. The day before they finally called my name, which took about 5 days including the time I had to wait for the forms to show up, I went into the shower and popped as many of the pustules as I could. If you heard a faint scream in Indiana or Florida in the summer of 2006, that was probably me.

Here comes the "fun" part. After you work, they herd you into a fenced area where you grab your new clothes. You have to remove all your old clothes first, then get in a line before you can get the clothes. So, there's about 20-60 guys standing in a line nude, outside by the way, anyone can look in. When you get to the front of the line, you're told to lift your scrotum so the officer can see you haven't taped anything to them and then turn around, bend over, and spread your cheeks so that they can see if anything is "poking out", such as a roll of cigarettes, joints, a lighter, etc... Although that process is humiliating, it's not the worst part. Remember that 115º weather I spoke of earlier? I'm sure many of you have gone outside barefoot at least once in the summer. Concrete can get pretty hot at even 100º outside, imagine how hot it is at 115º. So, you're standing in line trying not to think about how it's cooking your foot and dancing around like an idiot. It wouldn't be that hard to provide shade for that area, a couple blankets over the fenced area would do the trick(and cheaply so), but Arpaio believes it's "all part of the punishment", as many of his officers there liked to tell us.

There are a lot more incidences like these, but I'll finish on one last experience. The fourth of July. At first, they played the star spangled banner over the loudspeaker, which I thought was pretty cool, they didn't have to do that, ya know? But then....for the next four hours, they played "I fought the law and the law won" and other similarly annoying songs(considering we're all in jail)over and over and over again. The next day at work, one of the ladies that ran the Food Bank said "Hey, I heard they played some patriotic songs for you guys at the tents last night". We all looked at each other and laughed. Apparently, they made this huge deal about how they played all these songs for us and the media just ate it up, making Arpaio look like such a decent guy. When we told her that they only played the star spangled banner once and then played all those other songs over and over again, she said no mention of any of that was reported on the news.

Most of the other experiences I had are due to just regular things that go on in jails/prisons, fighting, race wars, etc.... But I'm sure it doesn't help when you have minimum, medium, and maximum prisoners all being held in the same place. Which, I didn't know was extremely rare until I got out.

So....I have mixed feelings on how to answer the questions asked by the original poster. Did I learn my lesson? Yes. Will I ever get another DUI? H E double hockey sticks no. So, was it a positive or negative experience? Would anyone blame me if I answered "both"?

No I wouldn’t and you story demonstrates the effect of an unpleasant jail. People refrain from doing anything that would get them back in.

I am not sure the nice cushy prisons have quite the same effect.

Ted you are mixing apples and oranges. Jails and prisons are different. A jail is a temporary holding institution and a place to incarcerate misdemeanor violators.

A prison is a more permanent arrangement for felons.

MSMBC has a series called Lockup. Whether the state prison they are covering is in Alabama, California, Kentucky, Tennessee, Utah or elsewhere, none of them are "cushy."

Just out of curiosity, do you draw any distinction between "tough" and "inhumane"?

You have a gift of understatement. Unpleasant? I was in the same clothes for nine days, there were people in the same clothes for over a month in 115ºF weather. I can't even describe the smells, much of it from infection. Even Saddam was given a change of clothes! If you ever visit AZ during the summer, take your shoes and socks off and see how long you can stand on some concrete, I'd bet the life of my first unborn child you don't last ten seconds(which is a conservative number, I was going to say three seconds). We had to stand there for several minutes. It literally cooks your foot.

Despite my visit to tent city, I still believe in tough punishment for criminals. I even believe that at times, what some people would consider mild forms of torture is necessary to obtain information involving national security and the like. But, what I do not believe in is cooking people's feet, creating an environment for infections, and withholding medical treatment just because they can.

Even if you believe every criminal should be punished in any way possible, it would still be counterintuitive to do so. More medical treatment means more money for the taxpayers. The worse the patient gets because of the punishment, the more money it's going to cost to treat them. If someone dies(several have in tent city), the lawsuits are unimaginably more costly. One lawsuit cost the taxpayers 8.25 million dollars. 8.25 million dollars because some guards stun gunned a guy 20 times, even on his testicles, he later died from positional asphyxia. The 8.25 million was a settlement after it was disclosed that the sheriff's office destroyed evidence. Good 'ole Arpaio cleared the guards of any wrong doing though.....

I have to agree. Much of what you say happened sounds stupid and ultimately more costly. I like Joe as a lawman because he is not the PC type but it sounds like some of the staff are not doing the right thing.

So Ted, you are now down to making excuses for Arpaio? You are making the worst possible excuse, that is, that the actions of underlings are making Arpaio look bad.

Who in hell did the voters of Maricopa County elect sheriff? It was Arpaio! He's sheriff! He's in charge of departmental discipline! This lame (lamest?) bit of absolute nonsense doesn't even begin to wash.

Well you know what BoF I guess the people who elected him are ok with him and that is really all that matters isn’t it.

The fact that a lot of people outside AZ like you hate the man means squat.

If country wanted a nicer jail then I guess they should buy one. And if prisoners are mistreated and win lawsuits then maybe they will.

Until then Joe gets the job done.

No Ted, that's not all that matters. What's wrong here is your thinking.

What matters is that you are willing to push problems at the jail off on Arpaios subordinates. Like, never could we blame the top dog in the organization. Is Arpaio above taking responsibility for those under him?

That's lame - just plain lame.

Well, when 14 guards go all Rodney King on some guy in a four point chair restraint, gag him with a towel, then leave him for dead and Arpaio conducts an investigation and clears them of any wrong doing, I'd say there is more to it than just his staff.

Here's his wikipedia link. If I ever have a wikipedia link, I just hope mine isn't half "controversy and criticism".

I honestly don't know how this guy gets re-elected, I haven't lived here long enough to witness the election process first-hand. All the money he claims to have saved from using tents, he's made up for it ten-fold using such policies as:



So....instead of sending them back to Mexico where they belong, Arizona taxpayers have to fork up the bill for them to be imprisoned. Not much of a deterrent considering 2 meals a day and free medical care is a hell of a lot better for many back in Mexico. His own statement is a little disconcerting, "My goal is to have the most populated jail in the country". I thought it was better to keep people out of jail, if possible, not to try for the Guinness book of world records.....

There has got to be someone out there that can be tough on crime and not bring the attention of Amnesty International to the state.

Ya sure BoF. You don’t like the guy so every action by every man who works for the Jail is his responsibility??

Lame is what that is. It’s like the Bush syndrome. Liberals hate him so every damn problem in the government is his – until a Dem gets in and then it will be someone else’s issue.

Who do we blame for problems at Federal Prisons? State Jails?

Here are some Texas jail issues – who do you blame here BoF? If Joe is so bad why have the Feds not caught up to him as thay have with Dallas BoF?


Dallas County faces federal lawsuit over jail conditions

Dallas: Sheriff says U.S. action formalizes plan to improve conditions
08:35 PM CDT on Thursday, September 13, 2007
By KEVIN KRAUSE and JASON TRAHAN / The Dallas Morning News
kkrause@dallasnews.com; jtrahan@dallasnews.com

A federal investigation into Dallas County's troubled jail system entered a new phase this week with the U.S. attorney general's office filing a civil lawsuit against the county and Sheriff Lupe Valdez in U.S. District Court.

The suit, signed by Attorney General Al Gonzales, seeks an order from a federal judge barring the county from continuing a pattern of deliberate indifference to the health and safety of inmates.

Justice Department spokesman Erik Ablin said he couldn't comment on ongoing litigation.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...nt.2cb3c3b.html



http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/007301.html


http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custo...;accno=ED061450




Send em back and they return in a week or so. Let them spend some quality time in the hot jail and perhaps they would reconsider. Mexicans come for work not food – if they cannt work and send money home that are unlikely to stay imo.

Arpaio is sheriff and is responsible for those he hires and fires as deputies.

The thing about the Dallas County Jail is irrelevant - a smokescreen - except that the Dallas Sheriff is also responsible for her jail.

The reference to Bush haters is yet another smokescreen. This thread is about Arpaio not the Dallas County Jail, (The Dallas Cowboys ) or Bush. You seem to be running out of credible arguments - like someone trying, without much success, to fight his way out of a paper bag - but that's no excuse for taking the thread off-topic.

BTW: Won't you be glad when Vermillion gets back, Ted. I know I will be.

You're probably right, I'm just sick of having to pay for them whether they're leeching off welfare programs illegally or sitting in a jail cell for two years.

My point was that Arpaio talks so much about saving the taxpayers so much money, but in truth he costs the taxpayers more in lawsuits, overpopulated jails, and putting wiretaps and other surveillance methods in the offices of his competitors during an election. Speaking of his elections, he's never shown up for a debate. Oh and I can't forget his 7 million over budget expenses in 1999, 2000, and 2001.

And lastly, he paid ASU $10,000 to do a study on the recidivism rate in Arizona's jails. Guess what? They found no change, par for the course. So, after all he's done, it doesn't even work!

I could literally go on and on about what a piece of work this guy is, I haven't even hit the tip of the iceberg on his shady handling of the sheriff's office.



Although off topic, I have to agree with you. Bush is blamed for bad intelligence from OTHER countries for crying out loud! The difference here is, arpaio has his hands in the cookie jar every time something bad happens, or he himself covers it up.

My understanding always was he used the tents because they gave him no jail space and the alternative was letting people who should be held go free.

Sounds like he has his issues and it sounds like the county has some as well. Is there a better man for the job out there?

Well that's what he claimed, but when he opened the tents, he shut down entire blocks of other jails to fill up the tents. They now send as many people as they can to the tents first, if there's any overflow, they will fill up the rest of the jails.



I don't know if he's better, but this guy is probably the only guy at this point that has a chance to dethrone Arpaio. Also worth mentioning, McCain has thrown in his support for Saban.


Speaking of support, Mitt Romney wants Arpaio on his team.

Thanks for the link about rmney and Arpaio, Ataal.

I think it once again illustrates Jackboot Joe's desire for publicity.



Ataal's Link

It seems FNC thought it important to interview Arpaio and, of course, the old publicity hound obliged. Gene Autry was "Back in the Saddle Again," while sadly the sheriff is back in the news agin. No surprise.

Of course, a "great" intellect like Mitt Romney, would ask about the pink underwear. Birds of a feather must truly flock together.

Ya sure BoF lets pick on Romney – guess what our jails seem top be better run than AZ and TX.

Nice to call Joe names but you duck the fact that you have a far worse jail right in your back yard. Typical.

You are going back to the same smokescreen I called you on a few posts back - trying to change the subject and take the thread off topic - typical.

"Worse" is a relative term. Is a jail better or worse if it's harsher or more lenient. What factors in - overcrowding, incidents of violence, quality of food, visitation policy? Can you support this with a credible study that ranks the jails in this country, I doubt it, becaue I don't know if people could agree on what is a good or bad jail.

Still, this thread is about Arpaio and once again he's become a publicity hound.

Your experience confirms every negative opinion I have about Joe Arpaio. The man is a sadist and his “tent city” is nothing more than institutionalized sadism (with maybe some homoerotic tendencies on the part of he and his staff – making men stand naked outside in plain view?). He and his minions are bona fide torturers who would feel right at home with Tomas de Torquemada, another self-righteous sadist. I’m sure he chooses his subordinates according to their capacity for cruelty. Arpaio is a man who feels that not only is he is above the law; he IS the law.

I’m sure that there are those here who would justify torture by saying that the prisoners in Arpaio’s torture chamber broke the law; they deserve it, etc., but they are still human beings, and should be treated as such. Denial of medical care in the manner Ataal describes is disturbingly cruel, and unnecessary, when normal hygiene would prevent such things. Equally disturbing are the number of people who support this monster.

Ataal, you’re lucky that your infection didn’t become septic, which could have been deadly. Or, is it that you’re lucky your sentence was short enough that you didn’t die from that lack of medical care?

Well, I got that infection within the first week of my arrival and I was there for 30 days total. Once I got the antibiotics and the strongest pain killer they have on hand(100mg tylenol ), it got better. Although, I still had the infection after I got out and went to the doctor for a full exam just in case. It went away completely within 2 weeks after that.

Ya know, it wasn't just the infection itself, the fact that I had stained my striped shirt with blood, they made me rake rocks for a few hours as punishment for that. Although it was painful, not a big deal I guess, that's the same punishment they give for anyone caught smoking or trying to bring food back to your tent, which has been a common thing since they lowered the number of meals a day from three to two. Plus, every time I got back from work and they made us strip, the guard made me take off my bandage(to make sure I wasn't smuggling anything in it), which was a complicated weaving of tape and gauze because of the underarm location, so I had to wait until the next day to get it re-bandaged, which is probably part of the reason it took so long to heal.

Actually one of the biggest reasons I went to the doctor after I got out is because of the showers. The drain in the shower was always backed up, you'd literally walk into about a 3 to 4 inch puddle of water. The problem I had with that is the plastic shoes they give you, they weren't the right size or something and would cut the tops of my feet. So, I had open sores in that puddle of water and a lot of guys shave in the shower. The razors they give you are dull(they're supposed to be I guess), and it's nearly impossible to shave without cutting yourself trying to get a close enough shave to satisfy the guards(if you have any stubble, you don't get to eat). So, I was worried that blood in the water making contact with my open sores....hep C, HIV, etc... The doctor said it was highly unlikely it would happen that way though. Whew!!!

No this is the subject. If Joe is a "jack booted Nazi" as you imply then your Dallas jail is worse in nearly every way. We don’t need a “rank” system to know that if the Feds come after it it is BAD BoF.

And last I checked Joe had no Feds on his back. Unless you know different.

Ya the man likes the spotlight – so what.

Well maybe if he wasn't in the spotlight so much, usually controversial, he wouldn't have this kind of stuff going on. Maybe, maybe not. All I know is, I've only lived in Phoenix for 3 years and I can't go a week without hearing his name or reading about him nearly every day. Next time you're bored, go to google, click on the news tab, type in arpaio, and read through the stuff that happened just in the last week or two. Better bring your lunch.

I grew up in Weber County in Utah and lived in Washoe County in Nevada for a total of 26 years combined and I never even knew who the sheriff was. I'd maybe see a sign posted once in a while for a campaign, but that was it.

If the man wasn't already 75, I'd say he was gearing up for a congress or presidential campaign, which would make sense of all the publicity he attracts. He should've been an actor if he likes the camera so much.

Ted, this thread is about Joe Arpaio - "Is he doing it right?”

I live in Tarrant County (Fort Worth), Texas. Dee Anderson is the sheriff here.

Too many people see Fort Worth as sort of an adjunct of Dallas. Sports writers often say Dallas Metroplex, although the airport is officially called The Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport. Fort Worth - Tarrant County - is its own entity - so don't throw Dallas crap at me.

To keep from getting my thread off topic, try to start your own about the sheriff's department in Dallas and Sheriff Lupe Valdez.

Here's a link to get you started.

http://www.dallascounty.org/department/she...riff_intro.html

I get it i have been there many times - its "next door to you BoF!. You have successfully ducked the question – congrats.

The point is if Joe is so mean and jack booted as you say why are other jails worse and get little attention? Could be we just don’t like Joe’s politics couldn’t it?

Ted, you've lost every other argument on this thread. So you are now down to the common political trick of trying to say someone else did something worse.

I don't know if any objective study has been done to determine the worst sheriff's department[s] in the United States. Since you brought up this "worst," it's your responsibility to find a study and look into how "worse" or "worst" is define and how various departments are ranked. As Mrs. P. recently told another poster, "that should keep you busy for a while."

Dee Anderson, a Republican, is my sheriff. There was a problem with a jail food contractor serving bad food. Anderson and the Tarrant County Commissioners rectified the problem. With the exception of some in-house squabbles over off-duty work, etc. Anderson has remained rather quiet. He's no media whore. I'm satisfied, if not delighted, with my sheriff.

You mentioned politics. Could it be that you don't particularly like the Dallas County Sheriff being a Democrat, a woman and Hispanic. I am sure many of you find this blend as particularly repulsive. I think it's great for diversification.

This got me thinking.....


Who is the sheriff of the sheriff??? Governor? I mean....who paddles the bum of the sheriff when he or she is bad? Or, do we just have to hope they don't get re-elected?

There may possibly be far worse sheriffs than Joe Arpaio, but Joe just can't stay away from cameras. According to his election results thus far.....apparently bad publicity really is good publicity, because he's had a ton of it.

There is a partial answer to this Ataal. The County Commissioner's Court in Texas controls budget and salaries for the sheriff's department. So, the sheriff is not totally independent. While the commissioners can't fire the sheriff, they can make life miserable for him or her, as can the media. There is no recall in Texas.

I don't see how you can lose an argument on a thread that asks for opinion.

I don't have a problem with his tactics(Joe Arpaio)... but then again I am no fan of those who get themselves arrested in the first place, no shocker there.

From reading Ataal's story, I bet he won't ever put himself in a situation where he may end up in Joe's tent city again. And that is a positive.

(As a side note: I lost a relative to a drunk driver)

No BoF not a trick just a argument – and used by liberals often. If Joe is the “jack booted’ monster you claim he is (and I disagree) then where does that leave your Texas jail? Maybe Joe isn’t as bad as you say is my point – get the comparison? – I am allowed to use them in debate right?

Obviously if they looked at all sheriffs in the country Joe would not be the worst – and probably by a long shot.

Maybe not Ted, but what objective measure leads you to that conclusion? Can you link us to any objective source that defines "worst" and ranks sheriff's Based on categories, such as (1) running the jail, (2) relationship with employees, (3) public relations, (4) relations with other county officials, etc. If you can't find such a study then quit popping up the same old smokesreeen over, and over and over again.

You know, now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever said Arpaio is the worst sheriff in America, although I have had some other negative things to say about him. I'm not sure how one would go about finding the absolute best or worst sheriff. I notice you haven't taken me up on my challenge to find a study that ranks sheriff's departments.

Ted, when you post a link, do you find one with a flashy headline and just paste it in as part of your argument? Or do you actually read the links you post. I think it must be the former.

From one of your links, it appears Dallas County has taken steps to rectify problems and that the Department of Justice has commended them for cooperation.



http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...nt.2cb3c3b.html

Well, before you go lumping all DUI offenders into the same category as murders, keep the following in mind:

1. The average person needs only 2 beers(or any two drinks with 1 oz of alcohol) to get a DUI.

2. You can get a DUI even if you're not over the legal limit. Say you had maybe half a beer, on the way home you swerve to miss a cat in the road, but the cop behind you didn't see the cat. The cop can arrest you for a DUI if you had any alcohol in your system and failed to maintain control of your vehicle.

3. Let's say you definitely cannot drive, you have no money for a cab, and so you decide to get into your backseat and sleep for a few hours until you're ok to drive. If your keys are in or even near the vehicle, you will be arrested for a DUI. You can get a DUI for even approaching your vehicle with your keys on your person. I had a friend that was going to get a ride from someone and went to her car to get her cell phone(she never brings it in the bar), there was a DUI task force in the parking lot and arrested her.

Without getting into too much detail, I had one of these three happen to me. The kicker with DUI's is, you may very well have a way of fighting the charge, the problem is that on average, a DUI case will cost you 2,000 to 6,000 in lawyers fees, while a first offense DUI charge typically runs under 1,000 in fines. The lesson I learned is, if you have your car, don't drink at all, cab it, or get a ride.

I don’t have the data to do that but let’s just say if a sheriffs dept. that is described by:

“Dallas County faces federal lawsuit over jail conditions

Dallas: Sheriff says U.S. action formalizes plan to improve conditions
08:35 PM CDT on Thursday, September 13, 2007
By KEVIN KRAUSE and JASON TRAHAN / The Dallas Morning News
kkrause@dallasnews.com; jtrahan@dallasnews.com

A federal investigation into Dallas County's troubled jail system entered a new phase this week with the U.S. attorney general's office filing a civil lawsuit against the county and Sheriff Lupe Valdez in U.S. District Court.

The suit, signed by Attorney General Al Gonzales, seeks an order from a federal judge barring the county from continuing a pattern of deliberate indifference to the health and safety of inmates. “
Justice Department spokesman Erik Amblin said he couldn't comment on ongoing litigation.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...nt.2cb3c3b.html


IS worse than Joe’s Jail – OK. Now you never said he was the “worst” anything you just called him a “jack booted” Nazi and “implied” he was. I have shown you clearly that you have a jail real near to you that is not real nice – get it BoF ?

Ted you are going to have to show me something more than this sarcastic and hateful and arrogantly uninformed remark - "get it BoF". Your anger over Gore's honor seems to be boiling over into other threads.

For example, you don't have the data to answer my question.



Did you even bother looking?

I had to laugh when I typed in google "worst sheriff" and this thread came up number one.