Man, this guy just can't stay out of the media!

I'll start off with this story. We've been paying half a million dollars to keep Arpaio safe, and it's starting to look like it was all for nothing.

Next up, this guy fled to Russia after Arpaio had his way with him. No sunlight, no showers, lost a lung, all because of a TB strain he didn't even have! Yet another account of lack of basic medical care, a very simple TB test.

Actually I wrote this well before Gore sir and as I said I have no time to look up stats – if there even are any.

I merely point out that your, as you say - “this sarcastic and hateful and arrogantly uninformed remark” about Joe being “Jackbooted” (and all it implies) anything is not correct. If he was so bad he would have the same charges as your TX Jail or worse.

So you are wrong to paint him as the devil that you have – move on please.

If Joe is so bad show me data that says he ranks at the bottom of the list for Jails. You "try looking" or admit your TX jail is far worse than Joe.

Here are some statistics:

It's interesting to note that the big cities, except for good ol' LA (we're #1! we're #1!) seem to trend downward over the 6 year period, while Ol' Joe's is climbing.

To put it in perspective, here are the county's total populations (from the US Census Bureau):

I'll leave the population/prisoners/prisoner death comparisons to someone with more math skills than I.


BTW, Ted, in case you're interested, Harris County, TX ranks 7th. And the BJS is chock full of statistics. And, in the future, maybe you ought to search a little more thoroughly before inserting foot so firmly in mouth. It took me 5 minutes.
Edited to add Jake Elwood's "alma mater" to population.
Oh, and here's the total jail population by county: BJS Jail Population by County

This is easily disproved.

You made your post on Gore on Oct. 12 at 3:46 p.m. calling Gore a "dope."



Forty minutes later, Oct 12 at 4:27 you made the uncalled for statement “get it BoF.”



Then I made my post objecting to your anger on Oct 12 at 5:17.





In an attempt to get back on topic, you completely ignored my post #196.

http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index...st&p=227476

It seems that even from the links you provided Dallas County Commissioners have agreed to spend huge sums of money to upgrade the jail and that the Justice Department has commended their efforts.

There have been problems at the Dallas jail facility. There are so many prisoners, that back when I was visiting a friend’s daughter, back in 2003, she was housed in the overflow building – oddly enough for Dallas called the George Allen Jail – not the main Lew Sterrett Justice Center.
Under new sheriff Lupe Valdez, who took office in 2005, the county is already addressing the problems.

I understand though, that some bigots (I’m not talking about you Ted) can’t accept anything she does. Valdez is a woman, a Democrat, a Hispanic and an out-of-the-closet lesbian. I laugh while some local bigots gag.

Is Arpaio working with Maricopa County officials to impliment the same magnitude of improvement Valdez and the Dallas County Commissioners have worked on and approved?

You are the one with the foot in mouth. Obviously Joe isn’t the Nazi monster you make him out to be Grl.

Thanks for looking it up.


Except of course if you leave out a few like…………

Baltimore City, MD 66 11 10 18 9 9 9

Philadelphia City, PA 97 14 14 13 13 22 21

Dallas County, TX 62 7 6 16 13 12 8

Maricopa County, AZ 66 10 7 14 8 9 18


Seems like except 05 when Maricopa had a bad year he did the same or better. Philly is a disaster.

You never cease to baffle me. I was not the one claiming that Dallas jails were far worse than Maricopa County - YOU were. I provided statistics showing that Maricopa County jails have more deaths than Harris County, and in your alternate universe, that makes me wrong. Whew. Cue Twilight Zone music.

Oh, I defy you to find where I called Joe a "Nazi monster"? Is that just another view from Ted's alternate universe?

If you look at the overall population of the various counties, and the overall jail population, Maricopa still has a lot more “incidents” than many larger, more urban settings, including torture and deaths and many, many lawsuits.

Sorry it was you political soul mate BoF that said that – do you disagree??????

And the number of “incidents” certainly is not as important as the their severity and certainly if the feds are investigating the TX jail and not Joe that should tell you something.

It seems Ted, the version of the Drudge Report is back after a brief absence.


And with all new services. Aw shucks, he is now running the eHarmony branch. How sweet!


You keep ignoring the information I provided from one of your links, that Dallas County has been commended by the Department of Justice.


Stop just repeating what you said and address what I've posted.

3. Tucker Carlson says that nobody has sympathy for criminals. Yet is there a point at which treatment of criminals (and those not yet convicted, but awaiting trial) is so egregious that it becomes inhumanity? In other words, at what point does toughness become unacceptable? If yes, what reforms would you suggest?
I HAVE. The TX jail is, by definition, doing worse than AZ since they are under federal investigation. You can count “incidents” all day but the fact that the jail I discuss in TX is tougher and far more “unacceptable”.. This is the subject of the thread.

So please explain how Joe’s jail is worse than this and stop trying to shift the question.

A federal investigation into Dallas County's troubled jail system entered a new phase this week with the U.S. attorney general's office filing a civil lawsuit against the county and Sheriff Lupe Valdez in U.S. District Court.

The suit, signed by Attorney General Al Gonzales, seeks an order from a federal judge barring the county from continuing a pattern of deliberate indifference to the health and safety of inmates. “
.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...nt.2cb3c3b.html

Ted as is often the case, your link doesn't work. I get "page not found." Try again, please.

Again, you have not provided a link to any research ranking the nation's sheriffs, which was not the original question to start with. I know you don't "have time," but if you insnst on takikng this thread on a tangent you need to do some serious research.

Try this.



http://www.lupevaldez.com/news/news4.html

At least the Dallas County Commissioners and the sheriff are addressing the problem with something othr than throwing up tents and being media whores. Perhaps the "other jurisdictions" include Maricopa County.

BTW: Ataal might be in a best position to answer this question, but has the DOJ ever commended Joe Arpaio?

.



I copied it above in BOLD so you can read it again. And I don’t need stats to know that the TX jail as described – A federal investigation into Dallas County's troubled jail system entered a new phase this week with the U.S. attorney general's office filing a civil lawsuit against the county and Sheriff Lupe Valdez in U.S. District Court. “ IS WORSE than anything you can say about Joe and his jail.
Is this clear yet or do I need to say it again BoF. ??????“


Does Joe have anything even CLOSE BoF. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Oh, I understand Ted. All the bolding, underlined bolding, all caps, multiple question marks, and never ending strings of O's doesn't make your case any stronger. In fact, the on screen theatrics have all the markings of a juvinile tantrum.

You might want to consider this and make some stylistic changes.



http://www.americasdebate.com/?page=guide


You continue to ignore the fact that the DoJ has commended Dallas County and the sheriff on the money it has earmarked to rectify the situation.

There is no objective way to determine who's the worst sheriff and that's not what this thread is about.

Here are the questions for you to review:

1. Do you think Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s methods are a positive or negative for law enforcement?

2. Is he, “doing it right as Scarborough (a conservative) proclaims or does he make you want to become an “ACLU lawyer” as Tucker Carlson (another conservative) suggests?

3. Tucker Carlson says that nobody has sympathy for criminals. Yet is there a point at which treatment of criminals (and those not yet convicted, but awaiting trial) is so egregious that it becomes inhumanity? In other words, at what point does toughness become unacceptable? If yes, what reforms would you suggest?

Because, you haven't had much in the way of substantial arguments, you are trying to hijack the thread. It's like mommy is about to whip a kid in the sandbox. The kid points to his brother and says, "he was doing worse," in hopes she'll whip him instead.

Arpaio himself has had to deal with the feds on occasion.

Here's an example.



http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/020/ripoff0020016.htm

Here’s another.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1996-07-11/...imply-stunning/

BTW: Ted, my links work. I preview my posts and check links and other things, rather than just slopping out something with more cosmetics than substance.

I could care less about the “money the bad jail is spending. The fact is, as I posted 4 times, the jail is a hell hole worse than Joe’s.

Yes Joe is rough but apparently not as bad as some TX jails – so give me a break – please.


Here is another link I found in 2 min.

Dallas County faces federal lawsuit
By The Dallas Morning News
Published: 09/14/2007

TEXAS - A federal investigation into Dallas County's troubled jail system entered a new phase this week with the U.S. attorney general's office filing a civil lawsuit against the county and Sheriff Lupe Valdez in U.S. District Court.

The suit, signed by Attorney General Al Gonzales, seeks an order from a federal judge barring the county from continuing a pattern of deliberate indifference to the health and safety of inmates. Read more.


http://www.corrections.com/news/article/16640


Want more – here are some and from you left wing buddies at ACLU to boot BoF! Are they wrong too?

http://aclutx.org/article.php?aid=239

It's sort of frustrating isn't it Ted. I haven't been counting but, are free to keep posting the same thing as many times as you wish.

I've never heard of any, in fact, they routinely investigate him.



As for Joe being "worse" than Lupe Valdez? Well let's see....

1. Five years after Joe took office, Amnesty International not only received complaints but actually paid a visit to Maricopa County. It's pretty rare that they actually visit and make recommendations to a place here in the U.S. when there are so many other major human rights violations around the world. I couldn't find any reference to them having anything to do with Dallas or Lupe.

2. Websites dedicated to overthrowing Arpaio have been popping up more frequently. I couldn't find even one of those for Lupe, and she's a lesbian, kind of controversial for some southern rednecks I would think.

3. Here's in interesting website of people who have filed complaints against Joe Arpaio, including some seriously disturbing medical treatment stories, much worse than mine. No complaints for Lupe from the same site.

4. You know you're a celebrity when you get your name on Snopes. I put this in here more for entertainment purposes I guess. Snopes is a great site for debunking common urban legends.

5. Other sheriffs actually distance themselves from him despite his popularity in the polls.

6. Take a moment to compare Joe Arpaio's wiki page to Lupe Valdez's wiki page. Surely wiki isn't the most credible page on the internet, but because of the fact that it can be edited publicly, controversies tend to stand out in wiki pages.

I was going to go into a whole area of how Arpaio wastes taxpayer money, but I'm running short on time and I need to get to work on a project for school.


Disclaimer: I'm not advocating that this is "proof" of Arpaio being worse than anyone since the term worse is purely subjective.

Right and you can feel free continuing to do everything possible to sidestep and then ignore it rather than actually address it.

I did address, "the issue" way back on post 196 and you just ignored it. And just think, the information I used was from your link. I doubt you've read more than just the attention getting headline.

Same for you BoF once I pointed out that a jail in TX is apparently far worse than your wipping boy Joe.

But I am sure the TX sheriff is far less controversial than Joe.

Sigh. The daily Ted report has been thrown. It missed the porch and landed in the soggy flower bed.

I never said Arpaio was the "worst" sheriff in the nation. To my knowledge no study has been done by DoJ, or others, ranking sheriffs. It would be a rather subjective determination.

If you want to debate who the worst sheriff in America is, why don't you start your own thread.

No BoF you did not say he was the worst you just started the thread to attack him while ignoring a jail that seems to be far worse. You asked:

“ 3. Tucker Carlson says that nobody has sympathy for criminals. Yet is there a point at which treatment of criminals (and those not yet convicted, but awaiting trial) is so egregious that it becomes inhumanity? In other words, at what point does toughness become unacceptable? If yes, what reforms would you suggest?”

So (Sigh) I have to ask YOU if Joe is the “jack booted" Nazi you have portrayed him to be where does that leave the TX Jail? Worse no doubt.

So my answer to your question is Joe is tough but not “inhuman” whereas the TX jail very well could be.

Is that clear enough for you BoF?

I've already said everything you have said is clear. Of course, if my not allowing you to redirect the thread is frustrating you, all the better.

When are you going to start a new thread on the worst sheriff in America? You might even try a poll with Arpaio as one of the "contestants."

All I am doing is refuting your political witch hunt for Joe because you don’t like him or his politics.

If this question that you asked – “Yet is there a point at which treatment of criminals (and those not yet convicted, but awaiting trial) is so egregious that it becomes inhumanity? In other words, at what point does toughness become unacceptable? If yes, what reforms would you suggest?” - meant squat to you then you would be looking at the TX jail as well as or more than Joe's since it is clearly worse – as are no doubt dozens of others.

But you are not that interested in this question you posed in general - only as it relates to a man and Jail you personally dislike. That much is crystal clear BoF.

You are confusing words. Joe's politics is Republican. My sheriff, Dee Anderson, is also a Republican.

It's not Joe's politics I hate, but his policies, including bragging about feeding prisoners green bologna at less than he spends on his police dogs.

"Politics" and "policies" are two different words.

It's not much of a with "hunt." He's sitting right up there in Phoenix letting the whole world know about himself.

Did I just read somewhere that Joe was "tough but not inhumane"?

I've posted literally dozens of examples of how he is far more than just "inhumane" and how he misappropriates funds to do it! And I'm no where close to posting even half of the atrocities committed by Arpaio.

The fact that we're now comparing Dallas jails, who have never had the attention of Amnesty International, and haven't even come close to the the six thousand lawsuits filed against Maricopa County, nor the over 800 lawsuits filed against Joe Arpaio himself since he took office, is beyond ludicrous.


Apparently someone here either doesn't care that he's the spawn of Satan, or they just aren't reading the links. Either way, I give up. Joe is the best thing to happen to Arizona!!!!

Okay, I'll try my hand at this.

I don't have a problem with most of Sheriff Joe's methods. Toilet cams, of course, are uncalled for. But what most people don't recognize is that he has to be tough to be a deterrent. Getting a DUI in the middle of summer would probably be the worst thing the next morning if you wake up hungover in Tent City.

People would blame that on Joe too. Oh, how inhumane making someone wake up with a hangover in the heat.

I'll give you an example. We caught a kid spray painting walls and one of my neighbors detained him. He specifically asked us to NOT call Sheriff Joe. There's a reason for that. Some criminals have been taught to believe that no matter what crime they commit against others, they themselves deserve nothing less than polite, courteous treatment. Sheriff Joe isn't "making them feel nice". That's the REAL crime to some people.

I'm not sure I'd be quick to paint Tucker Carlson as a "conservative". But I think Joe is doing it right. Our county shouldn't have to pay one dollar more for criminals to be happy and comfortable. They were arrested for crimes. Perhaps tough love (and a little heat) would make them think twice about committing a crime in Maricopa County.

I'd love to see his return offender percentages against other counties across the Country.


The point that toughness becomes unacceptable is if someone is intentionally harmed by the police. I hope we can all agree on that.

On the flipside: At what point did breaking the law merit gentleness and deserving of comfort and copious amounts of expected extras for the offender?

But why focus only on Tent City?

There are law abiding residents who can't afford air conditioning. If we're going to tax people to deliver A/C, start a program for the law abiding citizens who've done nothing wrong. He started chain gangs for men, and was sued for discrimination. So he started one for women.

He's one of the few Sheriffs that post Deadbeat Parents online and calls it a Hall of Shame. And why not? Pay for your kids or get treated like a criminal.

Joe enforces the laws. He does it unashamed, and tells objectors that if they don't like the laws, to lobby and change them. That's good advice. In the meantime, he enforces them to the fullest extent. And he keeps getting re-elected.

That kid we caught spraypainting our walls will be coming back with a few of his cell/tent-mates watched by armed deputies to clean it up. Courtesy of Sheriff Joe.

THAT is justice.

Just for clarification, I haven't "painted" Tucker Carlson anything. On his MSNBC show, he proclaims himself a "conservative." He also admits to some libertarian overtones.

I apologize if it came across that way. I wasn't directing that specifically at you, but more as a general opinion.