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English Horn
The consesnsus both here on ad.gif and everywhere else seems to be that George W. Bush is one of the most pro-Israel American presidents in recent memory. Bush had a 31 percent more Jews voting for him in 2004 than in 2000. In fact, Bush won a sizeable majority of votes from Orthodox Jews in 2004, a group which feels very close to Israel and far more likely to base their vote based on administration's policy towards Israel.

I consider myself pro-Israel and I think that this time Jews got it all wrong. Let's ask ourselves a question: would Hezbollah be so bold and powerful as it is now if Iran still had one of its mortal enemies - Sadam Hussein - right near its border? "An enemy of my enemy is my friend". By removing Saddam Hussein, Bush destroyed the fragile bipolar balance which existed thanks to Iraqi-Iranian animosity. As a result, Iran grew bolder and more powerful; more importantly for Israel, Hezbollah grew more powerful than ever before, which showcased in a disastrous (for Israel) war in Lebanon a few months ago. At the end, Israel is far worse off than it was 6 years ago.

So, my question is simple:

Was Bush presidency harmful or beneficial for Israel? Why?

Let's not turn this debate into a discussion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict - we have other venues for that.
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gordo
Was Bush presidency harmful or beneficial for Israel? Why?


I think to me this might hinge on why the U.S is having to much trouble in Iraq. If some study was produced that could produce results that the insurgency is a product of terrorism, rather then the idea that Arabs in Iraq generally just don’t want us there regardless of reason. I think if Iraq is sour or is the way it is because of hatred towards the U.S then I would say this is bad for Israel, if the problem is really nothing more then a product of radical Islam then I would say maybe he has helped them.

On the note that the situation in Iraq could be the way its going because Arab sentiment in general is negative towards the U.S I do not think this could be for Israel’s benefit, simply because we are there biggest supporter, and of course Arab hatred does not have to cross vast amounts of space and security systems to launch an attack in retribution for a perceived wrong.

George Bush was staunch in U.S support for Israel during its most recent conflict in Lebanon, regardless of other opinion on the issue bush backed them, bush is also staunch on Iraq overall because of perceived ties to terrorism, or the battle against. To me its hard to really be able to digest really what all this really means overseas to the common Arab or Muslim person, which I will believe will some how of course come to express itself in Arab perception of Israel. If during our current means of combating terrorism we are producing broad amounts of collateral damage in various forms I do not think this could be helpful to Israel and its case.

So in closing arguments thumbsup.gif I would simply say of course in pure opinion anything that bush has done to increase Muslim hatred towards us I am sure will come to express again in Muslim outrage towards Israel, simply because we are Israel’s biggest ally and backer in the world, and at this point I don’t really know of any in depth time spanning study of such that deals with specific values you could draw on.

Side note, I feel though that if many in Israel and supporters of such back in U.S do not feel that anything but the sword can help Israel’s case, then yes I think they might support bush for his actions.




Picadilly
Was Bush presidency harmful or beneficial for Israel? Why?

I think it comes down to what you believe is best for Israel. My personal feeling is that conflict in the Middle East is only going to be resolved when both Israelis and Arabs agree to resolve it (rather than through over whelming military force - which is now a rather moot point).

In that case, the best thing America could do would be to act as a neutral, bipartisan intermediary. (I am not making any judgement on whether it is morally right or not for America to support Israel - only that it isn't the correct action to take in terms of realpolitik ).

Unfortunately, the current American administration has not managed its own PR very well and convinced much of the Arab world that 'America hates Islam' - this combined with a partisan approach towards Israel probably doesn't raise the average Arab opinion of Israel much....

QUOTE
would Hezbollah be so bold and powerful as it is now if Iran still had one of its mortal enemies - Sadam Hussein - right near its border? "An enemy of my enemy is my friend". By removing Saddam Hussein, Bush destroyed the fragile bipolar balance which existed thanks to Iraqi-Iranian animosity. As a result, Iran grew bolder and more powerful; more importantly for Israel, Hezbollah grew more powerful than ever before, which showcased in a disastrous (for Israel) war in Lebanon a few months ago. At the end, Israel is far worse off than it was 6 years ago.


But Saddam was the main support of terrorist groups in Palestine. So maybe things wouldn't be particularly great if he had stayed in power either. Hindsight is 20/20.....assuming you believe that there was evidence supporting the case for the Iraq war, then Bush did the right thing by acting on it. Whether or not that belief is justified is a different debate...

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