inventor, you sure are optimistic, aren't you? I have a question for you after reading through all of your various conspiracy theories, studies, claims and blame. Is there such a voting system that can not be tampered with, hacked, abused, manipulated or bought by the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy? I mean, the Democrats are completely innocent and always play by the rules. They never undermine any system or the public. Right? It's all the Republican Pary's fault, and in no way will an election be honest or true, unless of course a Democrat is elected. Would you be making these claims if Kerry or Gore were elected? Honestly, would you make these accusations of a rigged election if your horse won the race? I can't answer for you, but I think most of us are willing to put money on the "NO" answer. Speaking of which, how many Democrats were elected last year into Congress, and how many of those states use the faulty Vast Right Wing Conspiracy created machines? How many of those elections are you contesting to be tampered with? If it happened before, why would it not happen again? Where is the blame that those seats that were won by the Democratic candidate were done so by rigged or faulty elections machines? What is good for the goose, is good for the gander! I bet all of those states had all citizens show up at one place and vote by a show of hands. Not sure how that could be rigged, so that must be it, or was it?

The real interesting question nobody can answer, is because both parties are represented equally at every precinct, how can every democrat there be that dumb and every republican be that smart to pull this off?

This debate is framed as if republicans run all precints and do anything they want without any democrat oversight. It's absurd beyond words.

And after all these years of evoting, has anybody ever been convicted for tampering with electronic election results? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

It appears this thread has been overlooked for a couple of days. I was honestly hoping for a response to my previous post and DaytonRocker's.

I would be in agreement that the entire voter fraud conspiracy theory is just that. When the votes go towards the Democrats, everything is legit. When the votes go towards the Republicans, lawsuits are filed. I am perplexed that if the same machines that falsely put Republicans in office put Democrats in office, why is it legitimate when the Dems win and not when the Republicans win?

That technique would not work in Teller County. Each voter gets a paper ballot that has ovals to color in with a black pen. You do that, the machine scans the ballot, and the ballot goes into the lock box. No printing. If a count is challenged, then the lock boxes get opened and the paper ballots are counted by hand. No hanging chads. So to do voter fraud, the old fashioned methods of cheating are the only ways. The county is tightening that up too by keeping records of residence more up to date. It's easier up here with fewer people. I can see the problem that big cities have, just too many people.

I am traveling internationally so very busy, I will reply in more detail later.

But again if the USA has figured it out that they can not trust buying computers from China for low level security that should tell you enough. Asfar as my example goes if Fonda or M Moore made the vote machines I would not be concerned with republican cheating. So lets just do that give the contracts to the most partisan dems we can for the next 20 years. Now acording to you that would have no bearing?


Now just because no one has been caught does not mean it is not happening. again I am willing to put up assets of over 2 million and since you say it is not possible you find backing of 10 to one. I will build a bunch of machines and with the same standards in plce today I am willing to bet I can steal the election and you can not catch me. Again I have disclosed one way it can be done.

Now you have made a statement that shows you must be incompetent with technology here. To sate/infer that there are dems and republicans at a polling place so it can not be stolen under their watchful eyes is about the most irresponsible statement I have seen posted. Your technical reasoning here is so flawed that you have no intellectual credibility on the subject when you claim to be a technician. I can say you are not qualified in this area when you make such an irresponsible statement. again put up all your assets and get some big money and bet it with me. I will gladly take your money.

Now again three republicans were convicted of vote phone jamming the day of an election. One of these upper level republican operatives made 20-30 calls to someone in the whitehouse. so you are absolutely wrong. but gee must be a conspiricy theory because no one in the white house has been questioned.... it is amazing to me that a federal prosecutor has not gone after who was receiving these phone calls. but we know it is the in-justice department, the department of rovian justice. Just that jamming could have cost hundreds of votes to thousands because they were not able to remind people to get out and vote, or counter the posters and such that said because of the high voter turn out democrats will vote wednesday and republicans on tuesday.

I believe that once count of vote fraud should be loss of your right to vote and 3 months of jail time, loss of 2-10 should be mandatory jail time of 1-5 years, and 11 or more should be 10-30 years, and more than that life sentence. Also fines of a magnitude in proportion that get paid to the other political party.

Now once again even in california they have found vulnerabilities. and remember a vote system is sucha a simple system vs say the banking ATM system. as we know the diebold system there is very secure considering those machines are sitting there vulnerable day in day out. are you in favor os machine sleepovers before the election, or a change in code the day before the election?



sure it could, just as it was done in Ohio, remeber that one county declared that a terrorist threat was made and as such they locked out all democrats and media from where the boxes and counting was done. To date no governemnt agency has said they issued such a warning and that county has not given the name of one enforcement agency that said there was. and again the rovian in-justice department will not investigate and get a grand jury.

I would be in favor of the dems and all parties having their own scanners and all scanning at the same time, and if they do not match the ballots are opened on the spot and the partys stay till they have a verdict. this would not be expensive as scanners are cheap.

Where is the logic in this? I must be the only one here that is confused by the great idea of putting Fonda or Moore in charge of making the voting machines.



Talk about a conspiracy theory! Just because there is no evidence, doesn't mean it isn't happening.


Now we are all impressed. What are you getting at? Who cares about your 2 million in assets?


If you tell me you are going to build them with the intent to "steal" the election, then I have already caught you, haven't I?


Read more posts, you will find plenty.


Now you are telling him!


You have his resume? Just because someone doesn't agree with your conspiracy theory doesn't mean they are wrong, you know.


Again with this betting thing. Seriously, no one cares.


And this is stealing the election how? I don't think this is tampering with ballots, but since you have such "intellectual credibility on the subject", maybe you should explain this to the rest of us minions.


And this is your damning evidence of voter fraud?


Since you are so certain of this, please provide your facts. Otherwise, it is by definition a conspiracy theory.


Do people really need to be reminded in today's level of media coverage? What evidence do you have that these phone calls would have provided "hundreds of votes to thousands"?


That must be why GW Bush was elected. People were convinced by some posters that everything has changed, except for the fact that no one in the media was covering it.


What does this mean? It makes no sense at all. For someone with the intelligence level that you claim, I can't read this incoherent rambling that you have typed. I am sure you have a point to make, but for some reason, I can't grasp it.



I need a reference to this story. I don't remember it, and would be interested in seeing how they came to the conclusion that only Republicans were allowed in the room. Did you have to show your voter registration card to get in?

I would really like to find more credibility with much of what you posted if I were able to understand most of it. Please do us all a favor and use a spell check and use proper grammar and usage.
Survival Guide
I know no one is perfect, we all make mistakes, but seriously, the use of a spell check would be helpful.

WASHINGTON — Maryland's recent decision to dump touch-screen voting machines in favor of a paper ballot system could come back to haunt voters, said the lead researcher on a study of voting technology.

The new report found that while every voting system tested had flaws, touch-screen machines — which Maryland uses — met the top criteria of the study: They were the most user-friendly.

Paul Herrnson, the study's principal investigator and a University of Maryland professor, said that in light of the report, Maryland's choice to change from touch-screen machines to an optical-scan system is ill-advised.

"In terms of improving the voting process, I think it's a mistake, and there's a lot of evidence to speak to that effect," Herrnson said. "The most common voting error that we found is actually voting for the wrong candidate by mistake," a phenomenon he said is easier detected with touch-screen systems that show voters all their choices before finishing the ballots.

The five-year study focused exclusively on the issue of usability by conducting field studies, soliciting expert reviews and laboratory tests comparing five current voting systems and one prototype, including three different kinds of touch-screen systems and an optical scan system. Researchers from the University of Maryland, the University of Rochester and the University of Michigan participated in the study.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,325031,00.html

It is a long thread, you must not have read the thread as I have asked to many times if the voting machines were made by the chinese, Castro, Chavez, Fonda or M Morroe would you trust the outcome of any election. If you still do not understand the implications of this statement we can debate it more. But to date seems you would be the only one that believes we should have the chinese make our voting machines, see the federal gov has now banned computers made in china from using classified material. wow how factual you are.... hey put up some real money and actually the next one I am working on should be in the 8 figures... I bet you can not wait...

wow there is proof you are just not well versed in what expensive polls mean are ya. Do you know that is the basics on how they stop accounting theft and why products when you open them are statistically likely to work vs 30 years ago. we in engineering call it AQL. we just do not call it a poll. same exact type of tool. yes he has posted his technician credentials before, he does claim to have a very significant technician ability and have no reason to doubt him[quote]

and SERIOUSLY I could care less if you do not care, in fact I think I am going to have a party because you do not care....

are you really that in right field to not understand why these guys were arrested and did jail time....

to your statement that the calls to the white house during the crime mean nothing… gee if a bank is being robbed and they are calling an employee of the bank at the time of the robbery you are saying there is no evidence to suspect that employee?

It has already been shown in the investigations of the rovian in justice department started 2 to one investigations of dems. Yet as we know during this period of time th largest thefts of taxpayer money in the history was by republicans. Ney, Abramoff, Dukester and so on... we know rove ordered his in-justice to go after very minor vote fraud which could not be found yet we know they never investigated the huge electronic vote fraud.

a book was just released by another republican come clean, like david brock. One of these republican vote hit men that was convicted in the phone jamming has come clean, heard him on the radio last week. he admits how the right wing uses these tools to stop dems from voting.... again this person was known and part of the top of the republican party for many many years.

And sorry you do not like the writings of a dyslexic, and sorry you can not understand them. Sorry you would not also be able to understand other dyslexics like, Einstein, Bell, Edison, Faraday, Hawking and many more.... the difference is I do understand them, so maybe I am the lucky one....

Talk about someone not being factual. Where did I make this statement?

I am perplexed by your betting statements. What does this have to do with a debate?


I don't even know who you are talking about. Care to provide even a news article coving this?


Again, I don't know what you are talking about. I have asked for some reference coving this supposed theft of an election, but you refuse to help out with this.


What does this have to do with this thread? It appears that someone is on the republican bashing mission.


Care to share any references, or do we just beleive you?


When I can read the majority of your posts, then the last few lines are rambling, I don't think you can blame dyslexia. I don't feel sorry for you, and you don't make me feel guilty. Nice try.

Now, back to a question I asked a long time ago: If these voting machines are so corrupt, why is it that so many Democrats won Congressional seats in 2006? I don't see anyone screaming voter fraud in those elections. Where is the conspiracy theory on those elections? Do states use different voting machines in Congressional elections versus Presidential elections? Why are those elections not called into question?

I am willing to bet this ohio terrorism threat, has been covered in this thread, but I certainly do not expect one to read it all so here it is again....

as far as you not understanding my written english and not liking my grammar, well your inability to understand concepts that are obvious I do not make fun of. again I do not start the attacks and get upset at people who are so intellectually challenged that they can not fix simple things like cars, computers, understand statistics yet they think they know it all and so on. I assume you again just do not understand what statistical tools are and how they are used for making better products and even used in many areas like accounting to detect fraud. Just as I recognize my spelling and grammar limitation I hope you have the ability to understand what ever limitations you have and not expect someone to teach you these when you may not have the ability to ever grasp math logic. knowing ones weaknesses is a strength.


Now, where no democrat has come forward and said they were allowed in the locked out ohio warren county to date and no republican has said here is a dem that was there.... funny how that is... in fact when the dems held meetings for these vote fraud issues in Ohio and invited the republicans to come in and explain gee the republicans would not show up. why would they not come in and testify when the dems held the meetings? if they did no wrong and voting after all is the building block of a real democracy gee... now some former republicans did that being the programmer Curtis.





http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010605Y.shtml

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0108-26.htm


http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/104...election_stolen


Now you ask why dems get elected, well that is easy, seems you are just to clueless about what computers can do, is you notice some counties that were dem went for bush in higher numbers than usual yet they voted for a dem in other areas. well the programmer gets to make this decision, and if a 70% dem precinct voted out all the local dems they would ask for ballot by ballot recounts and know something is rotten in denmark. But in the last election when you look at it and see dems that voted local for dems and then for Bush, that is baloney, all you have to do is look at other counties in the neighboring area and if they did not do this remarkable switch it is statistically not possible either did this one precinct. the second is the numbers for dems may actually be much larger, and you can only cheat so much, again when you cheat too much it sticks out like a sore thumb. To cheat just a few percentage is more under the radar. same with accounting thieves, the statistical methods pick out the worst offenders for audit.

you do not like the betting ha... well this person I am willing to bet with has bosted they know a lot about vote fraud and have said they know it all. Well I am willing to put up my entire assets to prove this person and any republican does not know what they are talking about. That the theft of any paperless election as run ie as being done today can be easily manipulated and undetected. A real demo of this would be the best way to prove it is easy to do. My costs to do such a project are significant so I need the other side to do the bet.

again would you trust the outcome of any election from a machine made by the chinese, castro, chavez, M. Moore, Fonda, me? why would you expect me to trust one with machines made by partisan republican companies.

Who started an attack? Here is the part of the post that I could not follow and asked you to clarify:

I don't think that qualifies as an attack. I also have never gone so far as to say something such as "get upset at people who are so intellectually challenged that they can not fix simple things like cars, computers, understand statistics yet they think they know it all and so on", but if that is how you communicate, that is fine.


You are right, I can't grasp math logic, can we move on now that you are feeling intellectually superior?


I still don't see any evidence that only republicans were allowed in this meeting. I see a lot of assumptions and accusations, but facts are limited.

I asked for references many days ago, thank you for finally providing them!



That is a productive way to explain something...


So what you are saying is the votes don't count for anything, it is all preprogrammed? I ask just to clarify before you try to crucify my intelligence level.


That still doesn't explain why one election is rigged, and another isn't. Why wouldn't the person who rigged one election and didn't get caught do it again to ensure his/her party got elected?


But for some reason, there hasn't been any serious investigation, no solid evidence has been presented, and no trials conducted, unless I missed something.


You are right, I don't like the betting, it sounds pretentious.


You are right, I wouldn't trust these individuals, but so far I don't see any factual evidence of wrong doing. I am not saying everything is legit, all I am saying is that I don't see anything that actually proves any voter fraud.

Just a couple of notes from wikipedia. I guess that have figured out how to cheat the election and keep Democrats out of the room every election since 1850... That Karl Rove and his time-travel machine.


I doubt that there were a whole lot of disenfranchised Al Gore voters in Warren county, a county where no Democrats even bothered to run in county elections.

I was listening to a left-wing talk show the other day, and they were broadcasting live from a College. The host repeatedly said that George Bush stole the election in both 2000 and 2004. Time and time again he repeated this lie and the college kids applauded. This type of paranoia and conspiracy theory has the potential to completely ruin our democracy, as people believe the conspiracy and think that people are stealing votes. Wait, I mean that ONLY Republicans are stealing votes. Somehow no one ever brings up all of the big city Democratic machines, where real, actual, proven vote fraud has been tolerated for decades.

Don't accuse colleges of indoctrinating our youth! What ever would make you say such a thing? http://indoctrinate-u.com/pages/trailer.html (Just a hint of sarcasm) But that is for another topic. It appears that some may beleive that if you tell a lie enough times, people will believe it. In this instance, I have yet to see any solid evidence that anything illegal took place.

to the point, first you do not trust the election if by a non right wing operative, yet you expect me to with what is evidence IE polls that contradict to a few million to one odds. while you may not consider statistics evidence that is what the real world uses on a daily basis to prevent problems of all kinds. It is not my job to teach you college stats.

next, as pointed out the government got it they no longer allow classified information on machines made in China. Or by your logic that is a waist of taxpayer money to worry because to date their is absolutely no absolute proof of wrong doing. May I say with your way of doing things the united states of america will be so vulnerable and insecure it is ridiculous to even debate such thinking. They have it right, we know it can be done on simple computers without detection so what idiot would allow it to be unsecure.

Next once again it was your rude statement that started it... your post 156



Why you did, your post 156….
if you think that bolded has to do with the subject you are in lalal land.... as you know you can pm me with your rude remarks. It seems that these types of remarks are acceptable behavior on AD so maybe I need to move the hate/hate talk up too. you know the type of trash talk you learned from Rush, Ollie, G Gorden, Savage, Beck, and so on...






now why no investigations, that is simple as well, gee the executive branch who enforces laws was what ????????? oh rovian... he sent his prosecutors basically only to go after multiple vote people, gee were there a dozen in the entire USA? as I said the dems did hold hearings but the republicans just did not show up or give them subpoena power.

Are you aware that local election boards control elections? I vote in Cook County, which has nothing whatsoever to do with Karl Rove or the executive branch. The machines, ballots and election machinery are all controlled by Democratic politicians in greater Chicago. Even in federal elections, all politics is local. The fantasies about grand Republican vote fraud schemes are just that.

Just a hint regarding your writing style... You may find that people would be more willing to try and understand your points if you added a dose of humility, rather than questioning and insulting everyone else's intelligence in posts that are quite literally indecipherable.

I didn't know saying please was an insult. Besides, I was just repeating what is in the survival guide:

Furthermore, you go on to assume you know anything about me. I think Savage is a loudmouth that is rude to his listeners, and I get that just from the ads for his show. Second, I think Rush is a blowhard, you can find me saying that several times on , I don't know who Gorden is, and I assume you are referring to Ollie North, but I don't know. I didn't even know he had his own show. Beck is entertaining at best. It appears to me that you listen to these guys more than me! Talk about being in lala land.

just a bit of common sense to ya...., you must be a naive person who can not learn or young idiot, but from my perspective I do not take the advice of people I do not respect, so your advice is stupid to give. maybe you should learn a bit about human nature before you dish out your really stupid advice. that was one the dumbest hints I have ever seen. we will have to take consideration of the source.

wow cook county, gee when they buy electronic voting machines who do they buy them from. geee a right wing partisan company. and the feds can go anywhere they want in cook county USA as well as the rest of the USA for vote fraud.

read the book by one of the right wing partisans who worked with the top republicans of the party, he is out of jail now..... again he was convicted and he goes through how the dirty tricks are played.... by the republican party...

Wow, I can't imagine talking like that to anyone.

wow you are that ignorant that you do not know saying please can be used in a rude manor. here, how would you like it if I said please get a small semblance of a brain so someday you can pass some stats so you do not whine like a cry baby failure.... again what if i made such a suggestion because it appears to me your math/logic stats are so severely lacking? does that mean we can not communicate because my grammar is bad and you have no chance of ever understanding basic stats? or do you try to understand your weakness and figure things out.

Now as I mentioned some of the right wings heros of hate that have escalated the hate talk that seems to be a norm for those of the right. You seem to act the same way yet you claim not to respect these hate trash talkers, yet I see you start the same escalation game, again I did not start it you did as you lied saying I did..


scubatim
then back at ya... Wow, I can't imagine talking like that to anyone. IE starting it and whining like that...

So I don't even have "small semblance of a brain" because I disagree with you? I am "that ignorant" because you misinterpreted my statement regarding your misuse of grammar.