Full Version: Government expansion hurts incumbants?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/27/pol...ment/index.html
I voted for Bush. Twice. This is a main reason that I'm voting Democrat in 2006 though.
Questions for debate: Why has the right gone wrong in terms fiscal conservatism? How large of impact on the 2006 elections does this have? Do you agree with Senator McCain's assessment of why Republicans are spending more?
QUOTE
a new CNN poll finds most Americans still agree with the bedrock conservative premise that, as the Gipper put it, "government is not the answer to our problems -- government is the problem."
The poll released Friday also showed that an overwhelming majority of Americans perceive, correctly, that the size and cost of government have gone up in the past four years, when Republicans have had a grip on the House of Representatives, the Senate and the White House.
Discretionary spending grew from $649 billion in fiscal year 2001 to $968 billion in fiscal year 2005, an increase of $319 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
The poll released Friday also showed that an overwhelming majority of Americans perceive, correctly, that the size and cost of government have gone up in the past four years, when Republicans have had a grip on the House of Representatives, the Senate and the White House.
Discretionary spending grew from $649 billion in fiscal year 2001 to $968 billion in fiscal year 2005, an increase of $319 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
I voted for Bush. Twice. This is a main reason that I'm voting Democrat in 2006 though.
QUOTE
"Conservatives came to office to reduce the size of government and enlarge the sphere of free and private initiative," said Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona. "But lately, we have increased government in order to stay in office."
Questions for debate: Why has the right gone wrong in terms fiscal conservatism? How large of impact on the 2006 elections does this have? Do you agree with Senator McCain's assessment of why Republicans are spending more?
Why has the right gone wrong in terms fiscal conservatism?
It's in the natural interest of all politicians to want to increase the size of government. They have campaign donors, political allies, and nephews to support and reward with cushy government jobs and contracts, and all that costs money.
How large of impact on the 2006 elections does this have?
It will probably have a substantial impact, though I confess I'm somewhat at a loss to understand why someone on the right would vote Democrat as a way of protesting against Republican overspending, rather than going with a third party.
Actually a good benchmark this election will be to see how many people, especially on the right, do vote third-party. It definitely has me curious.
Do you agree with Senator McCain's assessment of why Republicans are spending more?
To a certain extent it's true, that Congressmen like to spend money on their home districts so people will vote for them. But as corrupt as that practice is, I don't think that's where most of the money is going. It's the larger spending projects that are more of a fiscal drain, and politicians do that probably not so much in order to stay in office, but to expand their power and influence while in office (and even while out of office). And its something that, like I said, all politicians have a tendency to want to do.
It's in the natural interest of all politicians to want to increase the size of government. They have campaign donors, political allies, and nephews to support and reward with cushy government jobs and contracts, and all that costs money.
How large of impact on the 2006 elections does this have?
It will probably have a substantial impact, though I confess I'm somewhat at a loss to understand why someone on the right would vote Democrat as a way of protesting against Republican overspending, rather than going with a third party.
Actually a good benchmark this election will be to see how many people, especially on the right, do vote third-party. It definitely has me curious.
Do you agree with Senator McCain's assessment of why Republicans are spending more?
To a certain extent it's true, that Congressmen like to spend money on their home districts so people will vote for them. But as corrupt as that practice is, I don't think that's where most of the money is going. It's the larger spending projects that are more of a fiscal drain, and politicians do that probably not so much in order to stay in office, but to expand their power and influence while in office (and even while out of office). And its something that, like I said, all politicians have a tendency to want to do.
QUOTE(Blackstone @ Oct 30 2006, 01:38 PM) 
Why has the right gone wrong in terms fiscal conservatism?
It's in the natural interest of all politicians to want to increase the size of government. They have campaign donors, political allies, and nephews to support and reward with cushy government jobs and contracts, and all that costs money.
True. Maybe a better question is why have we let the right go wrong on this? I think it's just the power thing. House Republicans didn't have a spending problem under Clinton. They still had nephews then. I mean was it just Newt that stopped the spending craze?
QUOTE(Blackstone @ Oct 30 2006, 01:38 PM)
It will probably have a substantial impact, though I confess I'm somewhat at a loss to understand why someone on the right would vote Democrat as a way of protesting against Republican overspending, rather than going with a third party.
Actually a good benchmark this election will be to see how many people, especially on the right, do vote third-party. It definitely has me curious.
Again, I think that it's the power thing. Voting third party while more true to my actual beliefs, will not remove the corruption that is already there. And I'm upset enough to vote for a group I really don't identify with on that many issues to do it.
Why has the right gone wrong in terms fiscal conservatism?
How about- because they never have been, it has all been bull hockey the whole time, and you only have to look at Reagan's spending demands to see that it had NOTHING to do with fiscal restraint- just different places to spend MORE money. Dems were in control of the purse under Reagan, but they heard the mandate, and pretty much allowed his real budget busters to go through due to political fear of losing thier jobs- but, they lost them anyway to the scream of conservative ideology with no proven applications in US history- ever. There has never been a republican congress that was frugal, or really cut the size of goverment spending- I mean, they make this HUGE hay about welfare reform- why- to spend money? No, so they can get elected by blaming the economy on welfare moms and waitresses (as you recall, Reagan closed the loophole on tips and taxes, 'cause, you know, those darn waiters and waitresses were not paying thier fair share, and then saving all those extra quarters to screw with the economy by investing them wrong
) - but welfare isn't anyway near 2% of the budget total. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and "discretionary" budgets to fund wars eat up a whole bunch more than direct pay welfare checks!
It was all smoke and mirrors, and folks have been telling conservatives and showing them numbers, but refuse to realize the truth- no matter how bad liberals ran America- conservatives have managed to run it worse-
The golden age of this country- from 1945-1968 in terms of growth, economy and increased standard of livings (with the monster exception of civil rights)
- and pretty much ALL of our infrastructure that the modern economy relies on- came from liberals.
Gone are the rocket scientists with horn rimmed glasses that were straight laced anti-goverment libertarians that didn't want to spend one dime on any country but America "Well, when we have fed every child in America, and everyone here that wants to work has a job, well then, perhaps what is left over can be used on problems of other nations"- worried about the deficit, gov't beauracracy, was tough on any crime, especially hard on the idea of the white collar criminal. Some of them, quite a large number really, were pro-civil rights, due to thier libertarian concepts of freedom.
Reagan and every conservative elected after him sacrificed those libertarian fiscal conservative ideals on the alter of the Religioius right. Oh no, we want MORE goverment intrusions- all in the name of a new war- the one on drugs. Idiocy at it's hieght. With one fell swoop, they managed to start a war that was more costly and more stupid than any tax and spend bleeding heart liberal had ever managed to make into law-
but conservatives stuck to thier guns, and to thier republicans.
Now, finally, after the logical end of that philosophy comes crashing down on American society- conservatives get angry when the non-aligned and the liberals call them dummies and say "I told you so, our leaders screwed us over long ago, and we have done a much better job of dumping them when they do, even at the cost of power" -
It makes me so angry that conservatives kept buying the same old crap, with no measurable progress towards society being any more free, instead, the best they could do is drag us into a couple needless psuedo-wars,
Yes, I am hopeful that true conservatives, NOT the church ladies- they can sit thier butts on the couch at home and pout- and I am not specifically refering to women only when I say "church lady" - I mean Dana Carvey's rendition of the republican party since 1980
And yet, finally, after six years of massive spending, huge intrusions into the constitution- more than any liberal goverment since Lincoln and the civil war crisis, you guys are finally starting to say "gee, I know he is a republican and all, and claims to be a conservative and all- but seems to really suck big time"-
Conservatives have loved demonizing the left so much, that they are the ones that now have lost thier vision to the prize- they sacrificed it to Jerry Falwell and Rush Limbaugh in order to bring them to power.
Sad when folks purposely ignore the signs that thier leaders are not even close to being what they say they are, even when the signs are right in front of thier face.
How large of impact on the 2006 elections does this have?
In this- I couldn't agree with Blackstone more- except, he just doesn't see the blind loyalty that republicans and conservatives have- once you are endorsed by the Republican party- conservative voters don't seem to care about any other comment or truth after that,
I tell poeple every day "It is NOT wasting your vote to vote on a third party candidate- it IS wasting your vote to hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils- ESPECIALLY when what conservatives thought ws the lesser of two evils turned out to be evil incarnate
Conservatives- this is your chance to walk that walk and talk that talk- go find a third party candidate- vote for him or her. Quite listening to Fox and Rush Limbaugh and the right wing media and marching to the polls to vote republican because you THINK they are conservative. Take your butt and your vote somewhere you can be proud to vote on that person- win or lose.
Do you agree with Senator McCain's assessment of why Republicans are spending more?
No- it is even worse- it is to enrich themselves. They don't even care if thier constituents get the money- as long as they get thier slice. That, and a chance to buy some crystal meth and party with a male hooker
How about- because they never have been, it has all been bull hockey the whole time, and you only have to look at Reagan's spending demands to see that it had NOTHING to do with fiscal restraint- just different places to spend MORE money. Dems were in control of the purse under Reagan, but they heard the mandate, and pretty much allowed his real budget busters to go through due to political fear of losing thier jobs- but, they lost them anyway to the scream of conservative ideology with no proven applications in US history- ever. There has never been a republican congress that was frugal, or really cut the size of goverment spending- I mean, they make this HUGE hay about welfare reform- why- to spend money? No, so they can get elected by blaming the economy on welfare moms and waitresses (as you recall, Reagan closed the loophole on tips and taxes, 'cause, you know, those darn waiters and waitresses were not paying thier fair share, and then saving all those extra quarters to screw with the economy by investing them wrong
) - but welfare isn't anyway near 2% of the budget total. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and "discretionary" budgets to fund wars eat up a whole bunch more than direct pay welfare checks! It was all smoke and mirrors, and folks have been telling conservatives and showing them numbers, but refuse to realize the truth- no matter how bad liberals ran America- conservatives have managed to run it worse-
The golden age of this country- from 1945-1968 in terms of growth, economy and increased standard of livings (with the monster exception of civil rights)
- and pretty much ALL of our infrastructure that the modern economy relies on- came from liberals. Gone are the rocket scientists with horn rimmed glasses that were straight laced anti-goverment libertarians that didn't want to spend one dime on any country but America "Well, when we have fed every child in America, and everyone here that wants to work has a job, well then, perhaps what is left over can be used on problems of other nations"- worried about the deficit, gov't beauracracy, was tough on any crime, especially hard on the idea of the white collar criminal. Some of them, quite a large number really, were pro-civil rights, due to thier libertarian concepts of freedom.
Reagan and every conservative elected after him sacrificed those libertarian fiscal conservative ideals on the alter of the Religioius right. Oh no, we want MORE goverment intrusions- all in the name of a new war- the one on drugs. Idiocy at it's hieght. With one fell swoop, they managed to start a war that was more costly and more stupid than any tax and spend bleeding heart liberal had ever managed to make into law-
but conservatives stuck to thier guns, and to thier republicans.
Now, finally, after the logical end of that philosophy comes crashing down on American society- conservatives get angry when the non-aligned and the liberals call them dummies and say "I told you so, our leaders screwed us over long ago, and we have done a much better job of dumping them when they do, even at the cost of power" -
It makes me so angry that conservatives kept buying the same old crap, with no measurable progress towards society being any more free, instead, the best they could do is drag us into a couple needless psuedo-wars,
Yes, I am hopeful that true conservatives, NOT the church ladies- they can sit thier butts on the couch at home and pout- and I am not specifically refering to women only when I say "church lady" - I mean Dana Carvey's rendition of the republican party since 1980
And yet, finally, after six years of massive spending, huge intrusions into the constitution- more than any liberal goverment since Lincoln and the civil war crisis, you guys are finally starting to say "gee, I know he is a republican and all, and claims to be a conservative and all- but seems to really suck big time"-
Conservatives have loved demonizing the left so much, that they are the ones that now have lost thier vision to the prize- they sacrificed it to Jerry Falwell and Rush Limbaugh in order to bring them to power.
Sad when folks purposely ignore the signs that thier leaders are not even close to being what they say they are, even when the signs are right in front of thier face.
How large of impact on the 2006 elections does this have?
In this- I couldn't agree with Blackstone more- except, he just doesn't see the blind loyalty that republicans and conservatives have- once you are endorsed by the Republican party- conservative voters don't seem to care about any other comment or truth after that,
I tell poeple every day "It is NOT wasting your vote to vote on a third party candidate- it IS wasting your vote to hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils- ESPECIALLY when what conservatives thought ws the lesser of two evils turned out to be evil incarnate
Conservatives- this is your chance to walk that walk and talk that talk- go find a third party candidate- vote for him or her. Quite listening to Fox and Rush Limbaugh and the right wing media and marching to the polls to vote republican because you THINK they are conservative. Take your butt and your vote somewhere you can be proud to vote on that person- win or lose.
Do you agree with Senator McCain's assessment of why Republicans are spending more?
No- it is even worse- it is to enrich themselves. They don't even care if thier constituents get the money- as long as they get thier slice. That, and a chance to buy some crystal meth and party with a male hooker
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