Ayaan Hirsi Ali, (this women continues to impress me), has just written a new book entitled "My freedom", in which she states, "when people, that are religious, asks for your respect, they actually wants to dominate, so if you are willing to accept this, by all means do, be my guest ". And she writes, that too few demands are set for muslim imigrants in European countries.

1. Are the problems in european countries concerning muslim imigrants a result of a sloppish imigration policy?

2. And is USA experiencing fewer problems (with muslim minorities) solely because of stricter imigration policies, or is it a result of other factors?

No. They are largely the result of a long and deliberate campaign by powerful elements in the EU, most of whom are socialists, to introduce a new working class into Europe in order to galvanize the economy and make Europe competative against China, India and the USA whilst at the same time attempting to influence the oil rich mediterranean world.

I listened to the radio interveiw with Ayaan Hirsi Ali on DR and was impressed by her as always. She speaks with clarity and brutal honesty and each time I hear or read what she says, I am ever more convinced that Europe is in grave danger.

'Old Europe' is being dismantled in the interests of commerce and the EU elite long ago decided that the old order of nation states must be dismantled and replaced by a 'multi culture' that can survive in a world dominated by much larger political entities. What we're seeing in France and Britain today is considered to be 'teething troubles' and largely ignored by the EU leadership and their national government side kicks.

Bluntly put, they don't care. In that respect, you could call it 'sloppy', but the fact is, the outcome of mass Islamic immigration into Europe was always to be expected and was predicted by many. The problem we face is an unwillingness to recognize the problem because to do so would be to address the very foundation of the Eu, and in Europe these days, the EU is a sacred cow.


The USA is geographically isolated. That is the only reason why it has been spared the problems with Muslim immigrants faced by Europe.

There are problems within European countries in regard to muslim intergration, but I think it is not accurate to simply state that this is the result of sloppish policy. European countries have gone to great lengths to ensure that the intergration proces of immigrants goes as smoothly as possible. Giving a helping hand when they needed it, listening to their specific problems and respecting their cultural background have always been at the center of these policies and should not be altered. For many immigrants, whether they came from Africa, the Middle East, North and South America, Asia, these policies have worked well. It is only for a small minority, predominantly from Islamic cultures, that this approach has not reached to good results. The reasons for this can vary. Some youths within the European Muslim communities are not satisfied with the social economic conditions they themselves and their parents are in. They feel abandonned by society, restricted in they carreer opportunities and as a result turn their back towards the society and its culture in anger. (p.e. riots in Paris, Mohammed B. the murderer of van Gogh) Others are upholding rigid religious and cultural traditions that are seriously conflicting with the free world and society they live in. They are unable to compromise and are fighting the polluting influence of European liberalism. (the popularity of radical imams) Again, others are trapped within their communities and its social pressure. Many of them would like to live a more European way of life, enjoy the positive things liberalism brings, but are prevented by it by their fellow Muslim fellow-citizens. (honour killings, repressive actions against Muslim women etc.) There is a whole range of problems and obstacles to overcome. Achieving this is going to the real challenge for 21-century Europe. But one thing is clear; a reactionary policy of polarisation, populism and harsh reprisals will not be an answer to these problems on the long run. In fact it can only result in negative consequenses for society as a whole.

So what would be the options.

If force or changing will by violence seems to be a healthy option to some, first of all it seems that anyone the Muslims do it to only ends up with Muslims dying. Second, you can bring up Germany and Japan all you want. Both nations were crushed under a war, carpet bombings nukes and that whole detail of death. So I guess if you want to advocate that against Muslims in general go ahead, I think pretty soon the world might become disgusted with the death count in the millions. Second, I don’t think forcing conformity via violence is something that is going to stick, not for long at any rate, leaving people in a brutal cycle that I figure would only get worse before better.

Personally in something like this, I just do not see violence as a means to really solve the problem. I know at times of course in human history that options outside of violence become non existent but we have not reached that point yet. I don’t know how much flexibility older Muslims will have in general with adapting to a new culture, I think this problem escapes simply being a Muslim one too, I think such issues paint heavily into the portrait of human history period regardless of culture, and still do.

Another bad point is the image being spewed for Muslims to carry by non Muslims, I think its close to antisemitism personally. Not all Muslims are like minded drones waiting to carry out commands from the mother ship. They are also probably not all phobists of the outside world, I think reality can prove this point for me.

I doubt for any process of transition to be easy here. The point being is America is a accumulation of various cultures and backgrounds. Any person from one of these groups could develop insecurities towards the other and often it happens. With all the talk about liberal and secular bashing done by Muslims why are we not so quick to see that such happens in America all the time, yet we seem to be able to come to some sort of social equilibrium were people in general get along in a semi state of peace.

Out in the open hatred of Muslims and open warfare on Muslims for being Muslim is not going to solve the problem. Violence should be used superficially against people that commit violent acts, not people of the same color or creed, such would be like bombing Africa because an African killed someone.

The change will be slow because old minds will not change as readily as new ones and new ones in my mind have to share reality with there environment which will contain for one its parents and a liberal society those parents may not approve of, but simple hatred either by them or against them will damn the chance these young minds will ever desire any change.

For the most part I think Muslim fear is a product of ignorance like most things. Such can be defused, and hopefully before such ignorance becomes hardened either emotionally or via time skewed by pre exiting perception that is only reinforced by the environment.

1. Are the problems in european countries concerning muslim imigrants a result of a sloppish imigration policy?

I've wondered about that too. Doesn't Germany have a very strict immigration policy? I suppose that would equate to fewer problems with cultures clashing.

In the 1980s I looked into working for a Saudi outfit in the data processing end of things, but the pages upon pages of restrictions turned me sour on the idea. It would have been living in a little island of non-Saudis because mingling could have turned deadly. Talk about strict visitation rules!

Europe does look to be too lax on immigration, especially from the Middle East. I haven't heard anything about troubles along these lines for a while, so maybe that's been turning around. Or maybe everyone has tightened up security as has happened here.

2. And is USA experiencing fewer problems (with muslim minorities) solely because of stricter imigration policies, or is it a result of other factors?

Immigration policy probably has a lot to do with the relative quiet we've had for the past five years, along with tighter security. Disregarding the religious factors, law enforcement looks to keep people from getting out of hand. It doesn't matter if you're Muslim or not if a crime is committed or plotted.

But isn't that the same in Europe? Perhaps an important difference is that our ghettos haven't developed the same way, so that could go to immigration policy. I don't think people without money or means of self-support are legally allowed in. We have a problem with Mexican illegals, and that points to geography, doesn't it.

Does Europe have a problem with illegal Muslim immigrants? Is that the geographical part of the equation, that Muslims can travel by land to Europe? Seems to make sense. It's an angle that I haven't given much thought to, but now I can draw the lines.

Cheap labor comes from illegal immigrants because the labor laws can't really apply to them. Thereby some businesses take advantage of the illegal labor supply, and so the illegals keep coming over. The US has recently cracked down and begun deporting the illegals, which maybe has happened in Europe too. I think the attitude is turning around to this: Security is more important than cheap labor. Laws are coming on the books that make it very expensive to be caught with cheap illegal labor in one's business.

As the world approaches its saturation level, nine billion by one estimate I've heard, immigration will by necessity need to be more strictly controlled. Looks like that process is happening now.

There is a distinct difference between Islamic peoples coming into Europe and the UK than those coming into the USA.

For a start European nations carry the baggage of their colonial past, which gave rights to those they previously ruled over to enter the Mother country unchallenged and this was certainly the case with France, Spain, Holland, Belgium and the UK especially.

Germany was slightly different in as much as it deliberately imported Turkish labour in order to help with reconstruction of its industrial base and general economy. Originally this was on the understanding that when the Turks had worked their allotted time they were trained back to Turkey, but over the course of time many did not return so Germany faces a mainly Turkish problem.

Here in the UK we imported West Indian labour for our London Buses and Hospitals, Pakistani and Bangladeshis were brought in to work in the mills and textile trade plus of course the numbers of African Asians who were driven out by various African regimes.

The nature of the EU is that once these people are accepted as citizens of a nation then they have the right to work and reside in any other EU nation, but that said the huge borders of the EU are very porous with UK controls being virtually non existent.

Immigration en masse is a problem regardless of where the incomers originate, but those of the Islamic faith bring with them the problem of a faith that is not adapted to Western culture or society so hence the problems with their host countries. In the US you seem to have handled the Islamic factor in a better way, but just underneath the surface that problem appears to be lurking. In Europe Islam now challenges for the right to conduct a parallel society even calling for a state within a state.

Our Politicians blindly ignored the warnings about excessive immigration and still do, but they never understood the problems that allowing mass Muslim immigration would bring until now and of course it is now to late to control.

As to why we get these hordes of people seeking to join us is another matter, but the Northern peoples can not go on absorbing those from the South without eventually imploding and all that implies.

1. Are the problems in European countries concerning Muslim immigrants a result of a sloppish immigration policy?
IMO no. It has to do with jobs and freedom. The problem that some countries have is their Socialist type governments are so inefficient that the countries have very high (compared to the US) unemployment rates. So immigrants cannot find work. I also believe there is housing.

COMMENT ON IMMIGRATION POLICY-BECKER
Krugman’s recent New York Times article on French "family values" cited by Posner is the latest of many attempts during the past decade to justify, high labor taxes, restrictions on the ability of companies to shed employees, a French law that restricts work to no more than 35 hours per week, and various other restrictive labor-market legislation in continental countries. They supposedly lead to more civilized goals than are obtained in the freer Anglo-Saxon markets. That this leads to very high unemployment rates and limited job opportunities, especially for immigrants and young low skilled native-born men and women, and a shortage of part-time work for mothers and others, is the price that apparently has to be paid for these advantages.
But are any advantages of this system worth such a high price? Clearly, the European system of employment helps the "insiders" with good jobs, and works against "immigrants" and other newcomers ,or "out http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/archives...tmlsiders" in labor markets

2. And is USA experiencing fewer problems (with muslim minorities) solely because of stricter imigration policies, or is it a result of other factors
We are the sloppiest country in the WORLD in this area – we have 12-15 MILLION illegal aliens living here. BUT we have work.