I know these are mixed questions and had a hard time deciding were to post it.

For those of you that have read my post's you know that I tend to "lean both ways" if you will. In another post there was this tidbit of information.



So out of curiosity for information I ask.

Has modern society drifted toward previous liberal ideals?

Is todays conservative yesterdays liberal?

Have feminists played a large role in a modern societies structure?

Here's the kicker bonus question :

If the above question is true, does female power really dominate males in the "long run"?

Niether schools of thought are what they once were- only classical conservatism, as far as the US definitions go, have contributed anything positive to society.

Liberal ideals -you need to define them please- if it is big goverment- well, no, becase that is the conservative ideal- but with the old liberal big goverment- well, at least, the money was spent in the US instead of some country- I mean- when did being liberal mean you were for new schools for US schoolchildren, and against new schools for Iraqi children- who's parents don't want it anyway?

AS you can see with a great deal many posts- "liberal socialist" now means "anyone anti-GW" .

Seriosly- I have heard both DTOM and DaytonRocker be called "liberal" simply because, as a more Paleo-conservative/libertarian - they realize that this administration is NOT the conservative they know.

I don't think feminism is the boogeyman here- I think corporate America's upper hand, and their influence in politics, have been teh main reason we have the problems we have today-

what we really need is a less apathetic and stupid voting population, and this may very well make alot of things better.

Has modern society drifted toward previous liberal ideals?

I am going to echo CruisingRam's points in that the concept of liberal and conservative, especially here in the US, is very different internationally and historically. Liberal ideals (true liberalism or classical liberalism) would be considered more of a conservative/libertarian ideology while conservative ideals (more of a progressive/welfare state type ideology) are considered liberal. I mean think about it. Increasing the size of a government in order to provide for the population is in NO way something new. In fact, its how things have been done for centuries. The idea of decreasing the size of the government or putting restrictions on government power is very new in comparison, only arising in the past 200 years or so.

Egalitarianism in principle is a fairly new ideology since very few cultures had equality in mind throughout histor and can be considered a liberal ideal. But the manner in which equality is implemented is important. If it is done through increased government, then that is certainly not in line with liberalism because more government influence over people's lives would be harmful in that ideology.

The one general ideal that society is drifting towards is bigger government and government only solutions. It is the nature of the beast to want more power and it is only when the people have the gumption to stand up to the government that we have a regression of power like during the Reagan administration.

Is todays conservative yesterdays liberal?

To put it simply, no. They are very different animals and they always will be. Especially when the definitions of what constitutes a liberal or conservative are constantly changing.

Have feminists played a large role in a modern societies structure?

I wouldn't put feminist influence head and shoulder above the influence of other ideological groups but I would suppose the influence is there and that it had played a role in certain aspects of policy in the past couple decades.

If memory serves, I was the author of the paragraph which is quoted above. Allow me to clarify what I mean.

In 1906, a large number of American citizens, perhaps a majority of both women and men, thought that it is right and proper that women should not be allowed to vote. This is clearly not true in 2006. Similar things might be said for African-Americans, gays, and so on. Using the word "liberal" in this sense -- which is, by far, the most important sense to me -- I think that it is undeniable that sane societies (as opposed to insane societies, such as those ruled by fascist regimes, Marxist regimes, or religious fanatics) have evolved over time towards liberalism. Perhaps my statement would have been clearer if I had emphasized the fact that I meant cultural liberalism.

I don't see how it can be denied that feminism has had a profound effect on American society over the last century or so. The life of the average American woman or man is not what it was one hundred, or even fifty years ago. However, I would certainly not say that "female power" somehow dominates "male power." For one thing, I do not view society as some kind of competition between the sexes. The first priority of feminism in the United States, as it still is in some other nations, was to end blatant injustice against women. Now that this goal has been achieved to a great extent, an added goal of feminism is to free men from the chains of stereotypical masculinity. This is in no way any kind of attack on "male power." It is, in fact, an attempt to enpower all human beings.

Has modern society drifted toward previous liberal ideals?

That's an understatement. Modern society has been hauled screaming and hollering toward ideas that were once considered radical and damaging changes. Women and minorities did not get the vote because society drifted that way, for example. The vote was won from hard work and sacrifice. Let's not forget this.

Is todays conservative yesterdays liberal?

There's a certain amount of truth to this, in that people tend toward liberal ideas in youth and conservative ideas in older age, but I take this as a question toward tendencies broader than a single lifetime. I see less truth in that take on history.

For example, yesterday's liberal might have been in favor of federal labor laws. I don't see today's conservative as having embraced the idea of federal labor laws, just the opposite. The attitude seems to be that federal labor laws are no longer needed. Social Security is also not supported by today's conservative, and I know this is a generalization. The question is a generalization too.

But let's say that yesterday's conservative was against The New Deal. Today's conservative, generally speaking, has not changed that stance.

Have feminists played a large role in a modern societies structure?

Yep, much to the irritation of certain types of thinkers. First women got the vote, then they want equal footing in the workplace. The Man's World of the 1940s went away somewhat. Now it's a Good Ol' Boy World, but your boss might be female. The VP I'm working under right now is female, but I never have to deal with her directly, never met her and probably won't ever. It doesn't matter as long as I do my job well and she doesn't have to explain to her boss why some lowly little systems admin brought the corporation crashing down to its knees.

Here's what happens: Liberals push for change, conservatives resist, society changes, the changes go too far, there's a backlash and desire to fix what's broken, adjustments are made and life goes on.

The relationship of liberal thought to government is misinterpreted by conservatives, as in liberals are for big government. Translated: Liberals are for government oversight of business, and that's a big pain in the bottom line.

Meanwhile, society very much wants to eat a salad and not die from the experience, the death being an acceptable risk in a free marketplace. Society would also like to get on a plane and not become an incidental component of a terrorist's attack. When a part of society experiences disaster, that part of society wants government to help out.

One can pick any particular issue and see the underlying principles at work. For example, the backlash against welfare resulted in a limited welfare program designed to force people into the workplace. Both liberals and conservatives went along with this movement to adjust a liberal change in society. However, with another change in society going on -- the outsourcing of jobs to cheaper foreign labor -- the welfare reform could only be so successful. Here the free marketplace works against society and brings about change that damages society (no income at all is worse than being hooked on welfare).

Then we have to think globally. China is having a lot of trouble now with its labor unions wanting a better deal for their workers. I suppose that's a liberal movement. Corporations want China's government to crack down on those uppity workers and their unions, which I consider a conservative backlash. And what will China's government do? Don't know, it's too early to say, but my bet is on the labor unions. What are the corporations going to do, outsource to some other country? There is no other country.

Both liberals and conservatives have always suffered from wishful thinking, while the reality of situations pretty much dictate what's actually going to happen, regardless of human desires. Or maybe because of them at a level that has nothing to do with political thinking. The Chinese workers are, by necessity, liberal and their desire is to have a better deal from the corporations. The corporations don't want to pay more for labor, so by necessity also, they are conservative. The Chinese government is caught in the crossfire. I would call that being screwed.

While I agree with society not being some kind of competition between the sexes, it seems to me, especially if you listen to many of today's feminists, that regardless of what I believe a competition still exists.

Many feminists have become what they once fought in which they no longer believe they are equal to their partners but superior. For example "Freeing men from the chains of stereotypical masculinity" suggests that masculinity is inherently flawed and somehow must be cured. It's basically stating that males, through masculinity are not enlightened humans because of it. Therefore the "chains" must be removed so that they will be "empowered" to become an enlightened human (like us).