An interesting assertion came up in another thread that I'd rather not derail.


Although civil rights is certainly a wider subject than race, I suppose this forum is best for this particular discussion.

What seem the be the priorities of the civil rights establishment today?

Have they, as claimed, abandoned equality of opportunity for equality of outcome?

What ought the priorties of civil rights leaders be today and why?

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1. Self promotion as part of the quest for personal power. The promotion of equal results in order to claim the right to that power position. Enabling self destructive behaviors in the community in order to curry favor with those they should be confronting, in order to achieve that personal power.

2. Yes. Absolutely. But that's part and parcel with the self promotion and self appointed leadership positions. Having a record of equal results, coerced by the government, gives one more "cred" if one claims to be a leader. It's more expedient than taking the heavy lifting of addressing the real issues facing the community, confronting those who engage in bad behavior, and focusing on issues that are long-term (but more solid ways forward) such as family stability, education, and personal responsibility.

3. Their priorities should be:

- A focus on personal and individual responsibility.
- A focus on the family and keeping it together and strong.
- A focus on education.
- A focus on an industrious capitalism, business start-ups, the identification and penetration of niche markets and businesses.
- A focus on integration, instead of self imposed segregation and the terrifically misguided "Afro-centric" multi-culturalism kick. Moving away from separate but equal to full 100% citizenship and the responsibilities that citizenship implies.

There is no reason why formerly third world SE Asians, Chinese, and poverty stricken regions like India and E. Europe should emerge as high tech centers of competency in software, manufacturing, etc., and American blacks should NOT.

I reject the "soft bigotry of low expectations" that seem to plague so many in this country.

Civil rights today really seem to revolve around specific interest, as opposed to the value of equal opportunity. It seems that the homosexuals, the elderly, blacks, LULAC, etc all are more concerned with the status and preferential rights than a policy and society that pushes towards a more true meritocracy.

The law protects from direct discrimination, particularly minorities, women, the handicapped, the elderly, etc. This basically means everyone except white men under 40! If you're not really familiar, please read the laws contained here:
http://www.eeoc.gov/

Ok, I do believe that there might be someone out there pushing true equality in civil rights, but the leaders of today really are pushing for the betterment of their respective groups as opposed to the good of the nation.

Lulac wants illegal immigrants to have full rights, regardless of their tax burden or responsibility to the nation. The NAACP wants affirmative action to remain until black people are represented in C-level jobs and in the gov't reflective of their population % (regardless of education or experience). Homosexuals believe that somehow their sexuality is a reason for discrimination, as if sexuality is broadcast outwardly for all homosexuals. The issue I have is that ALL of these people are already protected federally, and still act as if that alone doesn't affect hiring/promotion decisions nationwide.

Civil rights leaders ought to promote education, legal immigration, and remembering the value of elbow grease and professionalism. If I were to talk to Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, or the Leaders of Lulac right now... I'd explain that there are a few things that will absolutely change the plight of those downtrodden in their communities:
- Obey the laws. Criminals will never garner sympathy from the mainstream, regardless of upbringing.
- Educate their youth. Have seminars early on how to get scholarships, grants, etc.
- Teach work ethic. Young people of all races have become apathetic as a generation. If the black kid at the office works 2x as hard, he'll surely shine.
-Instill a sense of obligation to your community, your state, and your country. So long as people don't see their location as their responsibility, it'll never be cleaner, safer, or more conducive to raising kids in that area. This doesn't bode well for the health of impoverished areas. No one with money will ever move there, and ones that get money will leave.

I'd tell Civil rights leaders of all colors and creeds that:
- Yes, there ARE biggots, but they're not all white men. They're black, asian, hispanic, etc. Get used to it. We can't change it. We can however, help to change the mind of the mainstream by dispelling stereotypes and making your way into the same neighborhoods, same PTA meetings,etc.
- Hand out are the same as a "give a man a fish principle". If your kids can get into college with mediocre grades and work ethic, that does not mean they'll be accepted or graduate. Grades aren't free in college, as jobs aren't handed out (and if they are... they don't guarantee promotions)
- Assimilation doesn't have to be cultural, but it does have to be professional. The standard of slacks and a dress shirt aren't race or color based. I've been to meetings in Japan and they wore suits and ties better than mine. Those folks live thousands of miles away. Get used to it.
- Teach your kids to save and buy into neighborhoods with good schools that are going to perpetuate success. It's a simple fact that if the schools are good, kids feel safe, and they go to college their chances are better. This can't happen if you have a $40K drive, but spend $35K on a car and live in the rougher part of town. Your kids don't need Air Jordans, they need an A in Algebra.

Ok... I'm off the soap box.

The good thing about starting a focused thread is that one can ask for documentation/evidence without leading anything of topic. It's why I make it a habit to ask direct questions.

So...

What evidence do you have the present that this is the case?

You see I'm going to step out on a limb (more like a sequoia but whose counting?) and say that those most critical of the civil rights movement have no idea what leaders are doing and only the vaguest account of what they are saying.

Prove me wrong, please.


It's pretty funny what actually checking a web site will do....
From Al Sharpton

Link

Link
A large affiliate of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow PUSH coalition is devoted to education.
PUSH Excel

Link

The difference as I see it is not really one of rejecting the points that you brought up, not exclusion. Heck, Sharpton comes down harder on thug life than plenty of conservatives.

The difference is whereas your points seem to focus on rhetoric, on "encouragment," civil rights leaders of today are focused on action.

Opponents of civil rights leaders love it when they spout talking points but we someone actually tries to do something to achieve equality of opportunity like tackling public education inequities, health care access, racial steering in the housing sector, or heaven forfend, public services.

Well that's a nonstarter.

The truth is that the civil rights movement hasn't abandoned equal opportunity, they just realize it takes a lot more than talk to get there and a lot of the problem resides inside our public policies.

Talk, as they say, is cheap.


I did.

Did you?


Same goes for sex, nothing in the law reflects a lack of protection for young white males, they have the same rights as everyone else under Equal Opportunity standards.

The fact is civil rights leaders have long fought for everyone.

Link

Again, what seems to drive much of your priorities list is talk, "get used to it."

the American way is about cherishing ones rights and liberties. We didn't "get used" to taxation without representation. Ben Franklin didn't assimilate.

Civil Rights is about justice not complacency.

turnea:

Jesse just proved lordhelmet's point. Workers at Ballys make more because people spend more money in Vegas than they do in beyond the bright lights of Atlanta, GA, so there's more money available to pay for the cost of labor. But yet Jesse insists that we disregard that economic reality and so the in the middle of nowhere Georgian maid gets the same pay as the maid at the hotel that grosses in the billions each year. So it isn't civil rights, but a failure to understand and apply basic principles of economics, etc. And maybe the maid in the middle of nowhere Georgia might want to move to Vegas, at least if income is her determining factor when it comes to quality of life.

Oh, almost forgot, speaking of numbers, and tax breaks for the rich, just how much of the yearly tax intake is paid by the rich? And what percent of our population are the rich? And why should they pay more? Does the rich guy use the freeway any more than you and me? So why should he pay more than us for its use? You are for justice, yes? Or so you self-reported. So where is the justice in simply taking something from someone because they happen to have it for the taking? I don't call that justice, I call it theft. And, no, not all rich, got rich by purportedly "Predatory economic exploitation", as the Rev. Jesse put it. Sorry, but his train jumped off the tracks rather long ago.

The “civil rights est.” as represented by Jessie and Al Sherpton are generally far left poilitically and focus on garnering privleges for their constituents by what ever mean possible. Often they are right on the money and just as often it becomes a "blame game".


In many cases yes but they do demand equal education which is their right and they are clearly not getting it. Their problem IMO is they look to idiots like Teddy K instead of getting strongly behind NCLB and vouchers.



Push for equality in education. Demand that schools that are inferior be closed. Demand that students that are violent and disrupt classes be booted. End the blame gave and look for family oriented solutions


This is a good statement but like most from these folks it always has the “blame game” statement – this one blames “Hollywood and video games”. This stupid, ridiculous argument just turns off anyone with a brain. Same goes for “guns cause crime” in the ghetto. IMO until the community gets better and stronger families caring for and watching over their children the problems will continue. With the Dems in the NCLB effort will be watered down or killed in favor of whatever the Teachers Unions want and the education situation – key to good jobs- will not improve.