QUOTE(moif @ Feb 10 2007, 11:44 AM)
National socialism doesn't actually advocate extermination either, so the distinction your giving communism seems biased to me. The bottom line as I see it, is if these ideologies, like so many others lead to extermination, with the ease they have, then they are as guy catelli describes them.
It doesn't come as a surprise however that peope on the left seek to disasociate communism with facism or from tyranny. This self imposed blind spot has been a common feature of left wing politics this last hundred years or more.
I think you need to take a step back for a moment Moif
Firstly, yes nazism actually does advocate extermination. It advocates eugenics and purity of a racial ideal and elimination of those who do not conform to that ideal. The actual meaning of elimination changed between 38 and 42, but elimination was the principle none the less. I can quote you chapter and verse from some of the leading historians in the field if you wish, to say nothing of Mein Kampf
Secondly, your jab at 'the left' is a touch unfounded. I am not, and will never defend Stalin, or the USSR, or communism in general as a functional ideology. But that does not mean that I will accept historical mischarictarisation or inaccuracy. There is nothing, and I mean nothing innately exteminationist or genocidal at all about Communism, in fact in its intellectual origins it is exactly the opposite. Stalin was not first and formost a Communist, he was first and foremost a mass-murdering paranoid megalomaniac.
If you consider any 'ism' under which slaughter has occurred exterminationist, then I assume you consider Monarchies, theocracies and frankly most other such isms in the world to be exterminationist? Would you consider democracies to be enslaving an enslaving concept, because at one point democracies kept slaves? It is intellectual laziness to assume that because Stalin and Mao existed under generally communist regimes, then by definition Communism is a reflection of Stalin and Mao's ideologies.
National socialism thus gets easily described as fascist, but excuses are made for communism that seek to seperate it from the crimes committed in its name. Suddenly we're expected to make a distinction between Stalinism and Communism, yet no one ever talks of 'Hitlerism'.
Thats because you are not a historian. In fact 'Hitlerism' IS National Socialism, it is an ideology founded by him, Rosenburg and a few other of his followers and is a specific reflection of his principles put into practice. Technically, Nazism is not fascism, they are different ideologies, though with a few similarities. Nazism is usually taken to be a racialist and genocidal outgrowth of fascism. The reason one is expected to make a difference between Stalinism and Communism is because there is
an enormous difference.
Do not assume that insisting on historical accuracy is some 'left-wing' thing, nor is it just another leftie leaping to the defence of Stalin.