This was posted on another thread, now locked, by QuarkHead. As soon as I am finished with this post I will send him a message to let him know I have taken issue with his account here.

The spitting on returning veterans during the Vietnam war is not an urban legend. It happened, and it happened all over the country. Returning vets were greeted with jeers and signs that called them "Baby Killers". Anti-war protesters collected blood for the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda went to Hanoi and returned here to call our POWs liars. This happened, there is no legend about it. I don't know where QuarkHead got his information, but mine is firsthand. I was there.

I did not mean to imply that it was an urban legend or that it did not happen. I know that it did. What I was trying to say, and apparently did so poorly, was that this was done by a small minority of protestors, yet in the passing decades, it has grown to become convential wisdom that the overwhelming mood of Vietnam protestors was reflected by the actions of a few, albeit very vocal, people.

I think that these people were seriously confused about where to place the blame about Vietnam. Denigrating the returning troops was very misdirected. But it has been blown up in the minds of some people, to the point where it is commonly believed that protestors of that era ALL had nothing but contempt for the men serving in uniform.

I am sorry if I offended anyone; I did not communicate my point as clearly as I should have.

Quark, what happened to our vets returning from Nam was, and is a national disgrace. There are over 58,000 names on The Wall and most of them are kids, 18 year old kids who did what their country asked them to do. And, they died for it. Those that made it home were spit upon and called baby killers.... Man, that just isn't right. They deserved better.

I hope we learn from our mistakes. Whether or not you support a war against Saddam, don't blame the troops who exectue it.

I support our troops 100%. To me the issue of supporting people in uniform is completely seperate from supporting the leaders who send them to fight and die.

As far as the issue of the mistreatment of Vietnam veterans goes, certainly it happened some. But not as much as is perhaps commonly believed. Here's a few sources:

Here,

here,

and here.

The most verifiable mistreatment of veterans is that by the US government itself, from Vietnam veterans to Gulf War veterans. The isolated cases of protestors mistreating veterans has overshadowed the abysmal treatment the vets got from their own government.

here.

Aquilla,

I know that what you say is true. My father was a Viet Nam Vet. It sickens me to think of how that war has scarred him. He suffers the aftermath even today. As do I, considering what role it has played in our relationship.

I, personally, have seen no ill will towards our troops in the current protests. If there has been any I would like to see links and become better informed. I believe everyone learned lessons from that time in our history.

My father was a 17 year old kid with a baby on the way (me) when he signed up to fight for his country in 1967. The idea that mere children were subject to the horrors of that war is simply mind boggling. I have nothing but respect for those men, both the ones that died and the ones that came home. I feel that they were victims of a government that did not have the best interests of our nation at heart. I feel the same about this war and have family members in the Marines stationed in Kuwait at this very moment.

The disgust and anger I feel is not for our soldiers, nor should it have been for the ones in Viet Nam. I hope there is a way out so that another generation is spared from suffering the same fate as yours and my father's.

When our troops come home, come what may, they will be welcomed with open arms...but there is nothing I can do to help justify their mission. That is up to the Commander in Chief and I pity those that are under his command...I do not hate them.

Thank you for what you sacrificed for the rest of us. You deserve only respect for that.

Protesters will be tarred with the most extreme actions. We think of Palestinian suicide bombers? What percentage of Palestinians strap a bomb on themselves and run into a crowd?

My point is that if people against the war take out their frustrations on soldiers without an excellent reason, these protests will be tainted just as badly as the extremists who jeered at Vietnam vets as a public demonstration or the many more instances of tiny slights or insensitive comments made privately about vets.

I never claimed that all protests were aimed at veterans, but those that did made a lasting impression and have become part of the clear characterization of the flavor of the anti-vietnam war protests.

The other sad thing about the Vietnam war, war that in fact some of our soldiers, marines, and airmen did in fact kill babies. And some of those incidents were not done from thousands of feet away by accident.

All I know is that I never showed disrespect to returning Vietnam vets. Once my brother came back in '69, while I was a senior in high school, many vets became good friends.

None of them were war supporters. These guys opened my eyes quite a bit and gave me great personal insights.

I visited The Wall on Memorial Day, 1990. Met Lucky, a 101st Airborn, class of '67, '68, and '69. Also one of his former officers. The ceremonies then included Russian Afgahnistan vets. Afgahnistan had become the USSR's Vietnam. Lucky walked up to the Russian vets to shake hands. I snapped a photo of that event.

Earlier, Lucky rode on the back of my Yamaha Virago in the Rolling Thunder ride through Washington DC. People in the crowd reached out hands to us. It was quite a feeling.

There's my story on war, vets, and protest. No spitting involved at all.

Through the years, the worst of those protests are mostly what is remembered. That is human nature. And that is why I asked the question about protests today and the impact they have on our troops. (thread was closed and I don't know why, lively debate only permitted in the streets perhaps).

I fervently hope that history finds a way not to repeat itself this time around.

I share your feelings and hope. Vietnam got real messy after Johnson got his way. By the time it was over, we not only wasted a lot of human and material capital, but also spirit capital.

Not to mention the advent of disco

(Apologies to YMCA fans)

Not so sure about this, Author, other than your disco comment with which I agree entirely. In many ways, Vietnam renewed this country I think. Like no time in history, people took to the streets in protest of a war they thought to be wrong, and they made a difference. I don't know of any other nation on earth where that would happen, but it did here.

My comments to Quark here were merely intended to correct the historical record, not to condemn the entire anti-war movement. Most of those involved in that did so because they believed the war was wrong and they weren't afraid to stand up and say so. That was a pretty courageous thing to do, and in doing so I think the American landscape was re-defined for the better. No longer would it be "My country, right or wrong, it's my country", and that is a good thing I think. A blind eye for the sake of patriotism is not a healthy thing.

Like you I am a child of the 60's, that's our generation and I'm pretty darn proud of that. Man, we changed the world like no other generation before or since! My kids roll their eyes when I talk of the "good old days", but they still listen to the story and they like our music.

I was also there, Aquilla, and would like to mention a group of protestors who have never got much coverage by the conservative media in this country: Vietnam Veterans Against the War. This is a group with which I frequently - and proudly - marched at the time (I had a couple of former classmates who were members). Needless to say, these men were not among those very, very few who spat on or derided returning troops. I am also happy to report that they are still active - and are strongly opposed to Bush's adventures in the Middle East. Those interested (or eligible for membership) can find more information here.

I am well aware of the VVAW organization, Wertz. They certainly had plenty of media attention during the Vietnam war, maybe not so much now and maybe for good reason. Iraq isn't Vietnam and the circumstances are considerably different. I can understand how some people can be against war in general, certainly the VVAW would have a good reason for that - there is something about seeing your best friend's head blown off and ending up in your lap that has an effect on you and your feelings about war.

Still though, I think we have to consider the current situation independantly. As long as Saddam is in power he poses a grave threat to the security of the region, and thus to the security of the United States. He has attacked Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, occupied Kuwait and brutalized the Iraqi people. Do you honestly think that if this viscious man had the means he wouldn't attack the US and kill more of our people than Osama bin Ladan did? Sorry, this person has got to go and it looks like it's going to take a war to make that happen. I honestly don't see any other way.

Reading my last post and it occured to me that I had probably ventured off-topic. Sorry about that. My whole purpose in creating this thread in the first place to was add my own firsthand experiences about what really happened a long, very long time ago. I really don't want it to happen again. Based on what I've read here from those who both support and oppose our actions in Iraq, I don't think it will.

That's a very good thing.