I don't listen to Don Imus and his morning radio show, but a lot of people do. Last Wednesday Imus, his producer Bernard McGuirk and a couple of other members of his morning show were discussing the women's basketball game between Rutgers and Tennessee. Imus wasn't too enthralled by the looks of some of the players for Rutgers:

Here's how it went again, this mean discussion among four white men. Imus started it:

"That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos," he said.

Bernard McGuirk, his producer: "Some hardcore hos."

Imus: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some - woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like - kinda like - I don't know.

McGuirk: A Spike Lee thing.

Imus: Yeah.

McGuirk: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes - that movie that he had.

Imus: Yeah, it was a tough -

Charles McCord, a co-host: Do The Right Thing.

McGuirk: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Imus: I don't know if I'd have wanted to beat Rutgers or not, but they did, right?

Rosenberg (a guest commentator): It was a tough watch. The more I look at Rutgers, they look exactly like the Toronto Raptors.

Imus: Well, I guess, yeah.

Imus Link 1 and you can hear the link here: Imus Link2

The thing about this is Don Imus isn't some washed-up comedian like Michael Richards. His show attracts many of the most powerful and influential politicians in America and is aired on 70 stations and MSNBC. The National Association of Black Journalists has called upon Imus to quit or be fired.

"What he said has deeply hurt too many people -- black and white, male and female," said Bryan Monroe, NABJ president. "His so-called apology comes two days after the fact, and it is too little, too late."

Imus has had a history of racial insults on his program, having called award-winning journalist Gwen Ifill of PBS a "cleaning lady" and referring to columnist William Rhoden of the New York Times as "a quota hire."

"As journalists, we firmly believe in the First Amendment and free speech," Monroe added. "But free speech comes with responsibility, and sometimes with consequences. His removal must be that consequence."

"These were nothing but hard working student athletes — young women, just trying to do their best. After 40 years on the air, it is clear that he has lost touch with all that is decent and honorable in America," said Monroe. "It is time for him to go." NABJ statement

Imus read the following remarks Friday morning: Want to take a moment to apologize for an insensitive and ill-conceived remark we made the other morning regarding the Rutgers women's basketball team. It was completely inappropriate, and we can understand why people were offended. Our characterization was thoughtless and stupid, and we are sorry."

The questions for debate are:

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

2. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew are NOT racist in your opinion, is he being unfairly criticized and a victim of the overly sensitive politically correct?

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

Sometimes I used to kind of like Imus- but this is unforgivable- he should know better. This is not the media for this kind of thing- he is NOT on def comedy jam, making an insightful comment on racial issues- he is just called black poeple names, cause he can, he is Don Imus, and he can't be touched- heck, he outlasted howard stern, didn't he?

He is not one of those "pundit" types I despise- he is a shock jock, therefore, I don't neccesarily classify him as a "political commentator"- so, normally, I would say "hey man, the dude is a shock jock, it is part of the genre'" and be all outraged by his firing
HOWEVER- in this situation-

I perform stand up - and there are boundries, even in comedy- that we won't cross. We push them, true- but, unless I have a POINT to make on the word- something like "what does nigger mean anyway"- instead of calling the audience "niggers"- makes a HUGE difference.

he was just calling a bunch of talented female basketball players- "nappy headed hoes"

fire his *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** I say!
Do it now!

2. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew are NOT racist in your opinion, is he being unfairly criticized and a victim of the overly sensitive politically correct?


See above.

You may recall, my REAL critisim of michael richards WAS NOT that he was racist BUT THAT HE HAD NO ACT. THAT was unforgivable IMHO- because well, it wasn't that he was racist- it is that he had no act, and when he was caught with no act, he reverted to the caged animal response and came out with the worst, most hateful thing he could say, to hurt them back.

Imus on the other hand, DOES have an act, and ABSOLUTELY knows what he is saying and when. This just tipped off what a racist he is IMHO.

Unexcusable- no excuses at all could he conjure up- OTHER THAN "I was high on meth, crack, heroin, alcohol, uppers, downers and all arounders at the time, please forgive my inebriation on the air"- because that is about it at his level on the playing field!

Maybe I can offer a somewhat objective opinion, as my knowledge of sports is zero, and I have no clue who Don Imus might be. (Or I may just be offering an ignorant opinion.)

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

IF it were known for sure that these remarks reflected a genuinely racist viewpoint, then it would probably be a wise idea for his employers to let him go. That's their decision, of course, but it would certainly be fair for viewers to make their opinions known, in a peaceful way. I would hope that being a true racist would be bad for ratings.

2. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew are NOT racist in your opinion, is he being unfairly criticized and a victim of the overly sensitive politically correct?

IF it were known for sure that these remarks were made "only" out of stupidity and thoughtlessness, as confessed, then I would still not say that criticizing the remarks would be unfair. I would only tend to suggest that his critics were being "overly politically correct" IF the remarks were strictly brainless rather than malevolent, AND if the critics demanded that he confess to being a racist.

I cannot see into the mind of this fellow, but my experience has been that stupidity is much more common than racism in individuals. (Inherent racism, without any kind of malevolence on the part of individuals, in societal structures is another question.)

If it were up to me, I would probably tend to accept the apology and move on, but keep a careful eye (and ear) on the fellow.

I would also like to address the issue of possible sexism in these remarks, which seems to have not drawn very much attention. Regardless of their race, is it proper to refer to a team of female athletes as "hos"? It seems to me, although I really have no direct experience, that female athletes would tend to be "tough" and not very "feminine," at least while engaged in the sport. Was the term "ho" used to imply that they were not "ladylike" on the court? I would certainly not criticize male athletes for not being "gentlemanly" on the field, and say that they looked like "wifebeaters" or "rapists." (I can think of no term which would be the male equivalent of "ho.") However, I would tend to think that such remarks would reflect stupidity rather than frank sexism.

If they were racist I wouldn't have a problem with him being fired. However I don't believe the remarks were racist, bringing us to question two.
He's not being unfairly criticized, what he said was stupid and offensive, but I don't believe he is a racist. He referred to the Rutgers girls as nappy headed hoes, then subsequently called the Tennessee Lady Vols "cute". The Lady Vols are, correct me if I'm wrong, composed of a majority of black women. I think this comment was Imus' criticism of the Rutger's girls appearences and as I said, was an incredibly stupid comment, no more, no less. There's no reason to fire him and he's already appologized, it's time to move on because in the grand scheme of things, this statement really doesn't matter at all.

CP

Well, in the grand scheme of things- you are right- it is a blip, butI would probably fire his butt anyway. Nappy headed hoes. He is paid too much to be that stupid. Stupid should be painful, and expensive.

Listen, I am an entertainer that LIKES Andrew Dice Clay etc- so, it is not really the material that I feel, well, is racist material.

If it WAS just plain stupid- well, then Imus has lost it, and, if I had the power, well, it would be time for he to go.

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?
He should be ignored. He's a has been hack shock jock who can only gain any attention at all by being offensive and stupid.

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

The remarks seemed both sexist and racist spoken by white guys. Although they were quoting School Daze, a Spike Lee joint, these... radio... people... should have known they can't borrow that kind of wording without being inexcusably offensive.

If Imus worked in any other industry, he'd probably be fired. However, he's in the ratings industry, so even if he were fired, he'd end up with a raise after the bidding war was over. Howard Stern's pay seems to double every time he's fired. They're both way off my radar.

I'm with Grendel72-- the best way to get rid of Imus is to change the channel. If that doesn't work, boycott his sponsors.

I don't know, but so many obscure words have been introduced by hip hop into the mainstream consciousness that its almost impossible to avoid them now. Like the word 'ho', which to many people means nothing, its impossible to keep track onwhat is and what is not racist. This obscurity is all the more compounded bythe fact that some people are allowed, even to the point of celebration, to use these words because they are black where as others, fans and admirers are called racist if they emulate them, even if in ignorance of the words underlyng meaning.

I assume 'ho' means whore and I am under the impression it is a African American expression since I first heard the word in rap songs. If thats true and this man was refer to sports women as whores on air then he ought to be fired, regardless of any intended or unintended racial considerations.

I do not believe however that racism springs from language and its hypocritical to call some people racist for using words they hear every day from the mouths of people who are paid vast amounts of money for using them.

Let me start by saying Imus's show sucks. I see it on MSNBC and I have tried to watch it, but it's boring. As is Howard Stern, "Ooooh baby, you're so hot. When's the first time you had sex?" Sorry, that's not entertainment, nor is Imus.

But you do bring up a good point, moif. If the Hip-hop generation, which receives mainstream media coverage, would stop disrespecting their women, then the other cultures wouldn't mimic this same terrible behavior.

Is Don Imus a racist? Probably. You don't need to feign like you are quoting Spike Lee movies to express the opinion that the Rutgers girls were ugly. When Serena and Venus came on the scene, they were ugly too, very ugly, and I remember expressing that opinion. I didn't need to wrap my insult in a racial epithet to express that opinion. Imus and his buddy did, which makes me think they did so to mask their underlying racist beliefs. Should he be fired? No, it's free speech, just change the channel. My question is why are you listening to him in the first place?

These obnoxious, detestable remarks are indefensible--not that it won't stop someone from doing so.



If calling a group of women "nappy-headed hoes" isn't a racist, sexist and offensive statement then I don't know what the hell is. Maybe if called them a bunch of ugly nigger hoes that might qualify.

Then again, in this point and time I believe there isn't ANY remark that can be made that someone can't defend, rationalize or excuse.

By your rationalization, ConservPat it's okay to call Oprah Winfrey a fat slob in one breath just so long as you say Halle Berry is a total hottie. Second, these weak and weasely "apologies" are about as genuine as a porn star's orgasm. There is no sincerity to them and if you believe Imus wrote it or even means it YOU. ARE. HIGH. This is only butt-covering spin control at its most obvious.

Imus can stick his apology where the sun don't shine.

Don Imus is a worthless, wrinkled, wig-wearing old fart in a cowboy hat who should be stuffed in a bottle and thrown out to sea. I despise these dried-up creeps who sit in their studios, draw million-dollar checks and spew their racial invective, sexual ignorance and bigotry all for a cheap laugh. I'm sick and tired of crude and stupid racism being excused as inappropriate "humor."

And does your fatigue give you the right to call some body worthless or advocate they need to be cast adrift at sea?

What is the point to this topic if your going to emulate the vitriol of the very people you are pointing the finger at? Imus's racism does not excuse anything in any one else. Racism is not the only reason why its wrong to insult people in public. If you are tired of inappropriate humour then say so, but please don't spew your own inappaproriate invectives in my direction just because you think they are justified by your own jaded lack of decorum.


(actually I'm not too bothered, I'm just trying to make a point as to how easy it is to lose sight of whats acceptable when your not paying attention to yourself)

Here's the thing you should understand, Moif; not every Black person in America was down with Dr. King's philosophy of non-violence. Not every Black person is interested in turning the other cheek and making nicey-nice with overt bigots. Not every Black person think THEY are the ones with a problem when they don't just ignore every moron with a big mouth and a revolting perspective.

I reserve the right to call out ANY walking waste of air who dumps on people he doesn't know, have done nothing to deserve his contempt and serve as a better representative to young women than some desiccated fossil who should have put out to pasture years ago.

If I wanted to emulate the vitriol of Don Imus, I would have called him a racist piece of White trash. I would have gotten right down in the gutter with the worthless old fool because that's where his mentality is stuck anyway.

As regards my "spewing my own inappropriate invective in your direction," Moif it's only in your direction if you place yourself in the way or you happen to share the sentiments of Imus. Perhaps if you find my words unpleasant you should cease reading them.

If you find my language harsh and intemperate, perhaps you should give some consideration it is in response to harsh and intemperate language. I sure as hell don't need an ugly maggot like Imus telling me what he thinks makes a Black woman "cute" or not.

So Moif if you think all that makes me no better than Don Imus all I can tell you with complete and total certainty it doesn't much matter to me WHAT you think about my viewpoint. I love Black women and I will defend them from the abuse of revolting old toads because they don't measure up to their valueless standards of beauty.

Nighttimer.

I think your missing my point. I thought the last line made it clear what I was getting at, but I guess not. You can insult this fellow all you want to it makes no difference to me. My point in this topic is about the ambiguity of language from different perspectives where its okay for one person to use a word but not another person to use that same word. Where some people are hauled out as racists for using words which other people are celebrated and paid for using.

But what ever. Don't let my opinion get in the way of your righteous anger because of course, anger always helps.

Yes, because of course context is utterly meaningless.
Why does every single discussion of racist old fools turn into whining about how unfaiiiiiiiir *waaah!* it is that minorities can use words the rest of us can't. I don't get why some people seem to have such a burning desire to use hurtful language that they can't condemn people who clearly use it with the intention of hurting people.
Anger at racist old fools like Imus serves an important purpose, it draws a line in the sand socially. It's a sad commentary that some people seem to think being angry at ignorant, hateful racism is a worse offense than the racism itself is.

Why wouldn't this be acceptable?

QUOTE

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

Let me start by saying I can't stand Don Imus. He's a no talent hack in a dying medium and he's not listened to by millions anymore. Howard Stern has been telling tales about Don Imus for decades recalling Imus's racist rants on and off the air.

However, it seems for the sake of comedy Imus and company were (poorly) quoting a Spike Lee movie.

Don Imus should be fired because he's not very good at his job. Don Imus should be fired because his ratings suck. Don Imus works at the pleasure of his company. If his company is OK with him sucking at his job and saying things that can easily (if not correctly given his alleged past) be taken as racist - well then that's up to the company that he works for.

There is other recourse though. The FCC could levy a fine.

As for question number 2 - This isn't the sort of thing that gets me angry enough to care about. What some guy on a radio program says has no meaning to me. What an elected official, or even appointed one says - that's the stuff that gets me crazy.

I agree 100% NT If he would have called them "Nigger hoes" he would have made a racist comment.


However, he merely calling them ho's. And then he is trying to describe what kind of ho's they are... "nappy-headed hoes" Basically when you add the fact he said they look like men(comparing them to the toronto raptors) and then someone said they look more like the grizzlies.... I'm sorry.... One second





As I was/were.... Absolutely not funny... insensitive... ill thought out...

Man if Ludicrous was here on this debate I think he would say...

"I got hoes... I got hooo-ooooeees... in different area codes(area codes)"


No seriously this a travesty. Clearly after seeing the rutgers team... calling them Grizzlies was appropriate, but there was too much weave to call them nappy headed....

They look ruff... they do...

Naw I can't give this the level of racist comment. However, I can see why other would. This is one of those borderline comments I do think will differ from person to person regardless of race.

Just for the record, since I'm positive that not a single person saying Imus' spew is just peachy keen has actually seen the movie, School Daze quite explicitly decries the racism of the (black) characters using the words. Not that context has any meaning, of course. I'm sure using the words in an intentionally hurtful manner is exactly the same thing as an artist having fictional characters use them and explicitly stating that it is wrong. By the way, you might want to investigate Anthony Hopkins, I heard somewhere he's a cannibal.

BaphometsAdvocate- I don't think FCC fines are the answer. Having the government levy fines against speech we disapprove of is a very bad step. People can ignore the old fool, people can publically denounce his idiocy, and hopefully his corporate sponsors will come to their senses and realize that racist idiocy is not something they want to be associated with.

Context is not meaningless, but neither does it excuse all things. There are differing levels of what is deemed acceptable as opposed to what is not. As far as I can see, calling some one a 'ho' is insulting, if not down right sexist, no matter what your reasoning is. Calling some one a 'nappy headed ho' may or may not be racist, but just how exactly is some one supposed to know this without access to the deeper meanings behind this new words? I never knew 'nappy haired' was racist. I've heard rappers using this sort of language many times and there is plenty of 'context', but nothing to indicate racism.

Am I too assume that any new word coined by a black man is racist if subsequently spoken by a white man? 'cause thats how it feels. If I criticize or question a black man, I'm a racist. If I sing along with half the songs on the radio, I'm a racist, and for no other reason than because of the colour of my skin...?

If context really matters then why does the colour of skin always get mentioned?


edited to add:



Would Nighttimer have started this thread if it had been four black men?

Well, since I didn't defend, rationalize or excuse his comments I guess I'd have to disagree with you . I'm not sure when calling a remark "stupid" and "inexcusable" became a "defense" or "rationalization".
"Okay"? Define "okay"? Would I be calling someone a racist for insulting one black woman and subsequently complimenting another? No, but by your logic, that seems to be legitimate.
And this brings me to my other point...Who cares? So he gave a half-[expletive deleted] appology? The world keeps on spinning, no one is thinking less of the Lady Scarlett Knights or black women in general because Don Imus happened to call a few of them ugly. This simply is NOT A BIG DEAL.
I still cannot understand how this can possibly be construed as racism. Let's say for the sake of argument that the Lady Scarlett Knights were ugly. So, is calling one group of black women ugly while calling another group of black women cute racist? C'mon. Imus is a provacateur at best, a jerk/shock jock at worst. It's time for us to start treating comments made by people like him as the non-issues they are.

CP

I can't speak for Nighttimer, but to me, and to most people I know hell yes it would be at least as offensive coming from four black men. Jiggaboo is just flat out offensive in any context (and in the context of School Daze it was meant to be offensive and we were meant to be offended at the fictional characters using the word), "nappy" in my experience is generally if anything considered more offensive coming from a black person*. "Natural" is a non insulting descriptor.

The sexism of the whole thing is equally ridiculous: First of all why are they even discussing the physical appearance of athletes, to the exclusion of discussing the game, even? Second of all have you ever seen a picture of Imus? He's hardly one to be disparaging anyone's appearance...


*Just for the record, this is coming from a white guy and is based solely on observation. Based solely on black women I know well I'd say it's considered far more insulting when black people use it.

The best way to get rid of Imus is to not get up early enough in the morning to see him. I'm retired, so I don't have to get up or go to bed until I feel like it. The few times I've seen Imus is when I haven't yet gone to bed when he comes on.

I was up one morning right after the election when he was bemoaning the loss of Rick Santorum in Pennsylvania. Good riddance.

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?
I would have to see the clip where they make these comments, but if they are correct then yes they are extremely racist and yes he should be fired. I have read the comparisons to black rappers and think that if that is your standard, then please rise up to gutter level, because those people are down in the sewer.

I have actually seen a couple of Mr. Imus' shows. I think that he is a great cure for insomnia, better than a sleeping pill at least. He mutters inane comments and moronic statements.

One day I have hope that we will outgrow these phase and be able to say that we are all the same homo sapiens and get past this inane desire to insult people because of the race, religion, sex or national origin. It remains a far distant hope.

Don't you know? Blacks are monolithic in their thinking and acting. Hispanics are monolithic in their thinking and acting. It is easier to describe them once you’ve catalogued them. Blacks can’t possibly object to rap culture when it generates so much money for a few individuals. Hispanics can’t possibly disagree with immigration reform because of the racist undertones supporters project on TV; they’re just stalling. Never mind the media profit-model requires brain dead titillation to keep board members in the Big Six happy, producing such enlightening cultural icons like Tupac Shakur and Brittney Spears.

Boycotting Don Imus will not make a difference to Viacom unless you also boycott CBS, UPN, MTV, MTV2, VH1, Nickelodeon, Nick At Night, the Movie Channel, TNN, CMT, BET, Comedy Central, Infinity Broadcasting (184 radio stations, including Howard Stern and Don Imus), Paramount Pictures, Simon & Schuster, Free Press, Scribner, United Cinemas International, Blockbuster, Country Music Television, BET (a cable network channel for African Americans), Logo, Noggin, The N network, Spike TV... you get the idea now?

As for Don Imus, I found his remarks more sexist than racist. Sorry Imus, my black nappy hair doesn’t wave and glimmer in the wind like blond locks can in a slow-motion spot for shampoo. Sorry Imus, I have muscles, not smooth and limber appendages. Sorry Imus, my otherwise smooth skin is interrupted by tattoos. Sorry Imus, Playboy won’t call me. When the hell do male and female sports commentators remark on the appearance of male athletes? I’ve heard plenty of dialogue concerning behavior on and off the court, but a team’s ability to win is never guessed at or debated from the appearance of individual players. What an *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. ***.

Seamus- context is everything, like I pointed out- I have watched every Spike Lee movie. It is used in context that what you are saying is wrong and bad. Each Spike Lee film educates on racial issues- it does not condone them. The speech, if anything, is ridiculed to a great degree. I don't see how ANYONE can take anything else from a spike lee movie.

He wasn't using this to educate, or show racial divisions, he was just throwing around racial invectives because he is an arrogant jerk who thought he could get away with it.

I don't understand the poeple that can even stomach his show anyway- just like anyone that reads and agrees with an Ann Coltier book is a complete slimeball to me- it speaks volumes about your character for me. I would pee on that person to put out a fire. Same with someone that listens to and likes the Imus show every day- that person is a twisted wierdo.

But there are alot of twisted slimeballs in this nation apparently- SOMEONE is listening to Don Imus, buying Ann Coltier books and listening to country music (okay, I went to far with the last one )

I have to agree with NT on this one- I dont' see how anyone can interpret his comments as anything but racist AND sexist.

Also- ya, in sports, we do insult our male athletes, even when we love them, just like, if NT and I were close friends, hadn't seen each other in a dog's agge, might say "hey NT, you old and ugly SOB, how the hell are ya?" - but there are customs that even guide the "hello insult"- after that, you say something like "how are those wonderful kids of your and that lovely wife" followed by the friendly insult of "not that you deserve it or anything, you lucky slob"-

With our sports teams, we are always screwing with thier names "Dallas Cokeboys"- the "felony lineup of the Portland jailblazers" -

so, in context, ya, we are pretty hard and insulting on some sports teams- BUT, on the other hand, I would NEVER use a racial insult about the team saying, for instance about my Portland jailblazers "they suck out loud this year, and they are a bunch of thugs", that is approrpriate"- but if I were to say "they are just a bunch of good for nothing niggers"- that would be crossing the line, BIG TIME. And would probably get me a well deserved butt whupping besides!

Men insult men all the time, sometimes with real vitriol, sometimes with nuttin' but love ( I wish I could post the excellent men's health article on this- really goes into detail) - but, there are very, very strict boundries among men regarding this behavior.

One of my oldest and best friends is black, and, when it is he and I, and maybe a couple other friends, of various races, we push those boundries very, very hard, and all in good ol' politically incorrect fun.

But, we have also established a trust, and our own personal guidelines, which would be appropriate- the one place you shouldn't have to censor yourself around is your best buds!

Context is EVERYTHING when speaking pubically OR privately.

How many folks here have been in an argument with thier SO, and getting into hot water, and then, for the next couple hours you are saying "you took that wrong, what I MEANT to say was...."

Don Imus let his racism slip show- that kind of comment does not exist ina vacuum- he has to use that kind of language elsewhere, in private, in order for it to be in his vocabulary.

I would never use the word jigaboo, even if I was TRYING to be racist- because it has never been in my vocabulary, so it can't slip out- nor "nappy headed ho's"- though, Ho might make it in an off-color remark, because that is used, in the context of "man, that chick is a straight up crack-ho".

I have been as foul mouthed as anyone on stage in my minor league career, and I got laughs for it- because it was in context of the audience and show.

In fact- he still would have been 'in bounds" if he had stayed away from the racial stuff completely- it is a well known taboo amongst about anyone I am thinking- he could have called them "ugly girls that I think are really former men"- and that might have started some anger at the personal attack on these ladies- but there would be no serious call for his resignation as a shock jock.

That's the problem. Imus's statements can be interpreted however you want it to fit, and it will fit.

What is interesting, is leaders in the black community can say whatever they want without consequence no matter how obviously racist the statements. But if Imus's statement can be construed as racist, we'd like to see him fired and watch him throw all the kids at his ranch out on the street - black kids first because it makes for good TV.

Personally, I think Don Imus is an overrated blowhard. I watch him in the mornings while eating breakfast because of his guests. And you will find no air between me and Don Imus in our high regard for Levon Helm. Other than that, I really have no use for the guy.

But as much of an idiot that he is, nothing he said can be construed to be an unqualified racist comment. And it certainly doesn't rise to the level of what Louis Farrakhan says all the time.

Continue to hate him if it makes you feel better. But geez, look for a better reason than this one. As for me, he should keep his job. Have a problem with it? Change channels...

Howard Stern is way better then imus, imus like bush is a wankster cowboy type creature that really never has anything even remotely funny to say, though that would differ from bush in that regard. Though its really not what he says most the time, its really his inability to say it that makes it so funny. Personally what was said is racist in my opinion, but moreover it was probably a stunt type of move to draw attention to a group of bitter and failing people that have nothing better to do. Regardless of all the romantics and mysticism at the end of the day its still survival, so that’s my two cents on the issue, he wants more money so to get it cause more problems.

BTW imus attempted to emulate stern, or if not for stern imus would be nothing really. Stern has produced in an infectious manner hordes of carbon copies that for the most part don’t happen to be all to funny, imus is no different but he is one of the more original copies if that makes any real sense.

Race relations in America is really just a giant mess of people being racist overall, so basically I tend to ignore it because like most everything else everyone knows what they are doing of course.

I agree. When I first read the reply, I assumed CruisingRam was agreeing with me; but after rereading my post, I probably didn't make myself clear enough here:I probably should have inserted "especially when" before "spoken by white guys", which is closer to what I meant. I didn't intend to imply that only white guys can be sexist and racist, nor that the terms were condoned by the movie. I recognized the lingo from having seen School Daze a couple of decades ago. By saying that they "can't borrow that kind of wording without being inexcusably offensive" I meant what CR said-- "context is everything". One can't borrow wording out of context (sometimes even in context) from a movie reprimanding offensive attitudes and expect not to offend other people, even moreso when you're not part of the offended group. Imus is certainly old enough not to be able to plea inexperienced ignorance. Coming from someone unfamiliar with these guys, there seemed to be malicious overtones to the conversation-- they seemed to know exactly what they were doing.

I've seen news reports on Imus with soundbytes, but I've never seen or heard his full show. I've run across Howard Stern on the radio and TV only long enough to know I never needed to tune in again. I've skimmed through a few Ann Coulter books and recognize them for what they are-- political polemic-- but not entirely in the same category as Howard Stern and John Edward's former campaign staff. In fact, it doesn't surprise me much that the people who seem to have the worst opinion of Ann Coulter are those most ignorant of the bulk of what she's written. I agree that her style would be politically offensive to any liberal, so I wouldn't approve of her more prickly turns of phrase, but the vast majority of what I've read from her is in a completely different realm than the Howard Sterns, Andrea Marcottes and Melissa McEwans of the world-- all use shock, but Coulter is usually more politically shocking than downright offensive. For the record, I also said I'd fire Ann Coulter for her recent f-word remark if she had worked for me. But, aside from the obvious offensiveness parallels, we're probably drifting off-topic.

I classify such a statement among those I don't consider valuable brain input. In your words, it's the kind of thing that tends to come from "a complete slimeball" or "a twisted wierdo", wouldn't you agree? Hey, the "twisted slimeball" in me occasionally rises to the surface, too-- apparently whenever I overhear country music playing.

The movie in question focuses heavily on the various forms of offensive attitudes among students of a black college. Through the light/dark skin issue and others, it also symbolically addresses larger themes of racism and general prejudice.

Maybe someone who had only heard the words floating around the office without having seen the movie could make a case that (besides 'ho' and the inherent implications of judging appearances), the more racist terms themselves were used innocently-- but not in this case. It is clear from the conversation these men had seen the movie and were quoting from it-- attributing it correctly to Spike Lee, but incorrectly to "Do the Right Thing". I don't want to hear about their memories fading so much they didn't remember the words and attitudes were offensive-- it's a good thing they haven't tried that defense, but it doesn't really matter what apology they issue. We all have our occasional lapses of judgement, and no matter how old we are we can still learn from mistakes; but we also need to face up to our actions, even if many of those we've offended are big enough to accept our heartfelt apologies.

The situation remains. These guys saw the movie and misquoted offensive passages from it to help them deride young women about their appearance, including their race. It's unconscionable on too many levels to list-- but because the topic question asks, they were speaking to the public on their employer's and sponsor's dime, so it's clearly a firing offense, even without a "morals clause" in the contract. Unfortunately, these guys usually either get away with it or get a bigger paycheck after getting fired for offensiveness, so I still say the best way to get rid of him is to hit him in the ratings and sponsorships.

I don't know about that. Perhaps I'm seeing two glasses that are half-empty, but it might be a case of who is worse, not better.

I don't know if he still does, but Stern used to have "Gary the Retard" on his TV show. Making fun of mentally retarded people is demeaning, dark age stuff - not in any measure cool.

Maybe both of them are essentially useless.

But that's my point.

I have no idea of the movie or anything related to the movie in question. So, his statements mean nothing to me although I could construe parts of it to be racist if I try hard enough.

But you think it's racist because you've seen a movie. How can racism be defined as speech being hateful - as long as you've seen a movie. Furthermore, I don't recall hearing anybody complain about racist dialogue in some movie which apparantly, could be the source.

Racism used to be "I hate black people because they are black". Now, people should lose thier jobs because if you saw a movie, something somebody said could only be interpreted as racist.

That's a pretty low bar for hate speech.

I was trying to get across that these particular guys, having explicitly quoted from the movie and citing its writer/director as their source, clearly knew these were racially-charged terms and used them to deride the appearance of black people, and therefore seem to qualify under your definition of racism. Whether anyone else understood their nefarious "joke" or not doesn't really matter.

Okay, let's squash this line of crap right now.

James Baldwin once said, You know, it's not the world that was my oppressor, because what the world does to you, if the world does it to you long enough and effectively enough, you begin to do to yourself. The sad, unhappy fact that there are a lot of rappers who perpetuate sexism, misogyny, homophobia, and violence against each other speaks volumes about the marketing desires of record companies and the lack of consciousness of those young men and women.

The rise of gangsta rap and the overly macho philosophy of blunts, bitches and gang-banging is a unfortunate trend. A lot of contemporary rap is nothing more than a modern day minstrel show where middle-class Black kids put on fake tats, gold grillz, and reinforce the worst and most offensive stereotypes possible. There is a lot of rap out there I like, but there's a lot more I consider absolute garbage. I don't want to censor anyone's listening habits, but I would hope at some point they elevate their taste.

But nothing what gangsta rap poseurs out to make a quick exploitative buck say or do is ANY justification for the blatant stupidity of a 66-year old man badly misquoting a 1988 Spike Lee film. Simply put, Imus is old enough to know better. As Seamus pointed out, they did NOT quote the right movie. The part about the "jiggaboos vs the wannabees" is from School Daze, not Do the Right Thing. If they're going to try and use Lee to cover their faux pas, at least get the damn movie right!

Trying to say, "everybody else is doing it, so why can't we?" is a childish rationalization and it is just weak and dishonest. Just because a small portion of Black kids with no political consciousness and White music executives trying to sell records are willing to pander to the lowest common denominator by making junk rap, is no excuse for Don Imus calling a group of women he does not find attractive "nappy headed hoes."

Frankly I don't care what you sing along to in the comfort of your home or car, Moif. If you wanna sing along with some pinhead bragging about the size of his entourage, his car, or his genitals, that's on you.

There's nothing funnier than watching some White dude roll up next to you at a red light and rattling the entire street with the music bangin' out of his SUV as he sings along boasting about how much pipe he's laid, brothers he's sprayed and how much bank he's gettin' paid.

White consumers repeating the ignorance, sterotypes, misogyny, racism, homophobia and violence of Black rappers doesn't make it smart. The fact that a Black man says it first does not give cover for a White man saying it next. As you have already admitted you did not know that the term "hoes" was offensive (though if you step to a Black woman even in Denmark I'm sure they might be able to set you straight on that score), which leads me to wonder Moif how much do you really know about rap music.

I would strongly suggest if you want to educate yourself on the game that is being played regarding rap and hip-hop, you should check out some of the materials from the PBS documentary, "Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes." It was put together by a young man who loves the music, but admits he is troubled by many of the same aspects of it that trouble me.

Cretins like Don Imus only scratch the surface. They don't want to go any deeper because they prefer to revel in their appalling ignorance. You can choose to inform yourself or remain among the ignorant. It's your call.



To answer the question, YES, I absolutely would have. WRong is wrong, no matter who says or does it. I'm not so defined by my racial identity that I'm above criticizing others who demean Black women for whatever the motivation. The offensiveness of the remark trumps the color of the offender's skin.

My question for you Moif, would you leap so eagely to defend ignorant Black men making racist and sexist statements as you do for ignorant White men making racist and sexist statements?

This may be true in many regards but what do you do? I mean the same stipulation could be applied to a mutlitude of anything that could be considered expression. For me, I want pc to be something thats in regards to law and equality, such as I could care less to ever hear about a law forcing someone out of work because of being a certain skin color, but I can enjoy a joke at someone’s expense be it from Dave Chappell or Howard Stern, because of such to me, not anyone else, its a joke and it makes me laugh, its not because I go and find someone with a handicap to make fun of.

This is a topic that surfaces frequently in art basically. When someone presses the envelope I guess. Its a bit different is in I don’t know of someone like Howard Stern is doing such to provoke thought, or any kind of meaningful thought as much as "shock" humor is that because its a hidden aspect of life not typically ventured into, such as making jokes about someone’s disability in a gross and crude manner using the airwaves and television. I used such routinely to keep morale up while doing duty overseas, and wow, I thought I had a problem after a bit because my mouth had gotten so dirty dirty.

I mean free speech is what it is overall. The same ability that gives rise to an artist to say America causes a great deal of human suffering with its laws, such as immigration typically from my point of view comes across in many racist tones, as in I could easily take offense and typically do, I would not however go as far as to say hey, you should be illegal for such activities! I know that you can deal with any particular abstractions of such as you want, items that deal with freedom of speech that is, but I try to look at the freedom of speech part overall in most of it simply because of opinion that passed to regulate such is overall a slippery slope. I mean if you want to outlaw in entertainment anything that could hurt someone’s feelings I think it would be very damaging overall, or do more harm then good. The movie THX 1138 hits it right on the head in many regards in that a duality of sorts exists. Society is something people have to live in for the most part, but society being concentrated of individuals does not mean it produces something that accommodates every individuals perception, lifestyle and so on. A great majority of this is probably what feeds into oppressive social or cultural systems having to be brutally regulated in relation to its populous at any giving time. I personally may take offense again to things people say, such as buscho is a band of concentrate Nazi sperm, but its rather American to be able to per say speak your mind overall. I think what imus said is racist, but I would never attempt to use the government to enforce something on him for it, I would however like the government to enforce a basic standard of equality for human beings in general, the kind that ends slavery and makes a hate crime illegal. The kind that ensures America is for Americans, not just a certain sect of them.

DR- you are an entertainer, correct? I am going at this from a different angle I suppose- "hate speech" as far as a crime, well, no, it doesn't rise to that occasion. BUT he is a product, he is selling a product, and, in this case, he is promoting that girling black girls on a basketball team are "jigaboos" and "nappy headed hoes".

IF he was Andrew Dice Clay, Howard Stern, etc, I would have said "hey, it is part of the act, he meant to get you guys going with this"- once again, context of the act is part of the equation, and in the context of the "joke" itself-

you see, there was no punchline here, there was no "set up" - it was just his way of talking about a black girls team-

I believe this is what gives it the "visceral feel" of racism vs act. This is the kind of things that SHOULD have some kind of consequences- NOT that I am saying we need a GOVERMENT action now- but it is NOT out of bounds to call for boycotts and firings here- and, in fact, if I were his manager- it would end his career with me, and I would be looking for something, shall we say, a bit more fresh?

And NT- I would be a hoot to you- a middle class suburban white boy from freakin' ALASKA diggin on the digital underground, or, the lord save me, fitty cent- I am sorry- his beats are cool, I can't help myself, but please, have a laugh on me

Goerge Carlin, Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, Andrew Dice Clay, Sam Kennison, even Bob Saget- of all poeple- have pushed the edge on speech- in the context of a comedy show.

Hell, they didn't push the edge- they jumped over it with a brick tied to thier feet, and it was freakin' hilarious (most of the time, Andrew Dice Clay insulting his audience for an hour and a half until they walked out, was pretty funny video, not so funny to the audience I believe?)

but all of that hard core edgy stuff, well, had a point- just as a Spike Lee movie would-

As Goerge Carlin said- and I am paraphrasing "We live in a noisy society, and sometimes you really have to yell to get thier attention so you can make your point, and get your laugh"- he was speaking on cursing in comedy, and his 7 dirty words. And of course, that list was expanded.

It was dirty, it was naughty, it was edgy- it was not, however- racist. In fact, when the worst of those words are used, in a good comedy act, like with early Eddie Murphy stuff,

AND in fact, Richard Pryor, bless his soul, really started using the word 'nigger" in it's current pop culture usage- and, as many here know, he had expressed regret for that very word's current usage.

But in all that- you don't have Don Imus. He doesn't fall into ANY of those categories- he was just dropping some racial slurs, and that makes me think that his is a habit, away from the mike.

Look here DR- what kind of language do you use on stage during the stage banter between sets and songs?

how much does it differ from what you may say around the boys in your own space?

I have a potty mouth in my shop, I will admit it- but "jiggaboo" or "nappy headed hoes" doesn't fall out of my mouth in an unguarded moment.

I would be willing to bet, Don Imus' slip is showing his casual racism at home.

And, Seamus, I read most of Ann Coltier's books. It is the modern equivilent of mien kampf. I don't believe I am exagerating either. I like to be able to say I go to the source when critiquing a writer.

And Seamus- once again, I am no liberal, pacifist, or lover of ANY particular party, though I am pretty fond of the libertarians here in Alaska

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

The whole “shock jock” genre is, in my opinion, a worthless waste of bandwidth on mean-minded, immature middle-aged men. Lack of tact and sensitivity is part and parcel of their job. However, I believe it crosses a line when racial name-calling occurs. If both teams had been comprised of white girls, what could he have said that would be as racially offensive? Sexism and racism are stocks in trade of these pathetic little boy/men. And for some reason, they are given a pass on it. Imus has a history of making racist comments; this isn’t a one-time “poor joke gone wrong”. Finally, he won’t be fired because he makes money for his bosses. He’ll be forced to make an apology, and he will continue his insipid blathering until the next time he stuffs his foot in his mouth and the same thing will happen all over again.

To borrow from Elton John, Imus is a disgusting vile pig.

It might not be all about you what amuses you gordo. Did you ever think that the best jokes are those that are self-deprecating? There is a vast difference between what Howard Stern puts out and the humor of Mark Twain.

The best you can claim is that Imus is worse than Stern and even that is a dubious statement.

You will have to realize that I taught mentally retarded students for 25 years. I was not only their teacher, but an advocate. I'm retired from teaching, but still very much an advocate. Why? Because they can't advocate for themselves.

Whether it's Imus, Stern, Rush Limbaugh or some other media creature, it says to me that there are too many people out there with too much time on their hands.



What's ironic about all this is that the best part of the Imus show is his use of blues music.

Yes, but what about someone who becomes hurt by not being able to freely speak there minds. I mean does Howard Stern come into your house and force you to listen to him? On that note though you would force yourself on Howard Stern... Yes also its just me, I don’t live anyone elses life or attempt to, I really can only live my life.

This is where government fails. Anytime it takes its powers to high it ends up like Microsoft and the blue screen of death. Now of course the reality of a libertarian society is something that will never exist, I mean it does by proxy but its not truly free and probably would simply develop back into today, and of course humanity does not posses enough understanding to state it lives in an objective society either. Now you may agree with like minded people, but that idea to me is be it democrat or republican, please keep your morals off my mind ok, and my actions. Howard Stern like imus is not denying anyone there liberty, there are an expression of such open to choosing by the concept of choice. Personally the idea of such being outlawed is far more disgusting then anything either of them has ever said really...

Now, I am not asking you to accept Howard Stern, or anything he says. The reality is Howard Stern has said far more awful things about just about everyone and everything then the "gary the retard" bit, so with that in mind I truly do feel its just an American right to be a something, even if that something is something that disgusts you. I mean if we want to get into the game of banning thought or expression, I don’t know how much closer you can get to tyranny really, its the same stuff that leads to the idea of banning homosexual lifestyles and book burning.

DG- please allow me to disagree a bit with your characterization of the impact of shock jock, shock comedy a bit- even though that is not my particular genre'- but this kind of comedy, when done correctly, is not only quite funny- making fun of what we take too seriously sometimes- but believe it or not, some of it DOES lesson the sting when other idiots throw them about in earnst.

That was what Richard Pryor was trying to achieve with the word "nigger" . At least, he said so

Too much tact and sensitivity is what kept some things out of the public eye that should be there- such as real racism. Entertainers have always been the poeple that push the edge of whatever society they are in, they are harbingers of change- even sometimes, when they "go too far" in some cases.

Voltaire, I am sure, was considered quite vulgar and useless in his generation, and, IIRC, went to jail. Jonathan Swift's satire was pretty hard core for it's day, etc

Shock jocks, shock comics, are very, very likely to be the ones that do break down barriers.

If you ever listen to Lenny Bruce, you realize, ESPECIALLY in the era he was from, he sounded just as bad as howard stern today- but really, Lenny really did have impact on alot of issues, through comedy.

Mom's mabley certainly was pretty vulgar for her day, but she was a ground breaker too

Of course- Don Imus is nothing of this, and though Howard Stern was really quite funny at first, and really did create the morning show format most cities have on at least one radio station- I would agree, the lesbians and strippers get a little tiresome (OMG- did I just say that- wait, strippers and lesbians NEVER get tiresome :devil:Please forgive me, all of manhood, for I have sinned the sin of the old man, I will ALWAYS LIKE hot lesbians and strippers- I SWEAR- and, if drunk, I will like the unatractive ones too! )

so, it is not realy the genre', IMHO that is racist or misogynistic, it is rather, Don Imus is a racist and misogynist- Howard stern, probably misogynist- but then, sense he doesn't exactly DRAG these women into the studio- I would say the women that participate are equally to blame )

But still, from strictly entertainment- he is washed up, and hopefully fired, considering he has a track record now of racist comments- calling award winning black female author a "quota hire" and a "cleaning lady"- well, that sets a pattern IMHO- and I hope those that can have some impact on his job, well, get him fired.

So, really DG, what I am saying is- political corectness would be at one end of the spectrum, the area that forces an entertainer to censor themselves, and Imus would be at the other side- where we HOPE someone would censor themselves,and, since he doesn't, hopefully, the public will force early retirement upon him.

BTW- I engage in some hard core politically incorrect speech myself, make fun of those church ladies that like to yell "misogynist"- I lampoon them all myself. I just don't call out thier race- i make fun of them and thier self righteous outrage.

Don't get me wrong, CR, I love stand-up, but what Imus does doesn't even remotely compare to the comedians you mention. I don't put shock jocks and comedians in the same category. Not only is he not in the same league, he's not even in the same dimension! Plus, none of the greats relied on such clumsy attempts to get a laugh. What Imus (and Michael Richards) do just isn't funny. I can't define why what George Carlin, Richard Pryor et al do is bring-a-tear-to-your-eye, make-your-stomach-hurt hilarious, but whatever it is, Imus doesn't have it. I'd venture to say Imus would be at a loss in front of a microphone in front of a real audience. Hiding behind a radio mic and making smirking racist remarks is easy. If he did it in front of a live audience? I think there would be an uncomfortable silence.

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?
Not racist, Imus appears to be an equal opportunity lowbrow insulter. Being a low brow insulter, i.e. shock jock, would be sufficient cause for me to fire him, because I have a pretty strong dislike for that particular form of "entertainment." I wouldn't, however, rush the bum out any faster simply to satisfy the victicrats in any community.

2. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew are NOT racist in your opinion, is he being unfairly criticized and a victim of the overly sensitive politically correct?
Uh, yeah, of course he's being unfairly criticized, unfair to all the others he's insulted in the past. He had the temerity to insult someone other than white Christians. Had he made insulting cracks (undoubtedly he has) about, say, the BYU basketball team, you wouldn't have the PC Gestapo screaming for his head. Likening one team to a bunch of ghetto thugs (or more obfuscatory euphemism might be "ethnic hairstyle wearing urban neighborhood sex workers") because they're running around with a bunch of tatoos and look ready to chew nails (I believe that's called "game face") may be distressing to the tender sensibilities of some, but its SOP in sports conversation. How many jokes have we heard about big, hulking angry looking athletes looking like they've just "escaped from prison." Jokes about "white men can't jump"?

You want to criticize or fire Imus, then do it on the basis of equality. Give a pass to one set of insults and not to another, and you're as guilty of discrimination, bigotry and racism as you accuse Imus of being. Given that he's been doing his schtick for decades, strikes me as though all the past passes and then jumping on this definitely falls into the DB&R hypocrisy file.

The problem isn’t that Imus is a shock jock. To be honest, I hadn’t heard that label pinned on him until this thread exactly because high ranking national officials have appeared on his show. The only time I saw his show was while I was sitting in a car dealership’s waiting room for my car’s tune up. I thought, oh hey, that’s impressive, this guy has a Senator on his show talking about Iraq. I don’t follow Howard Stern, but how many Senators can he bring in? I love shows like Mind of Mencia and the Dave Chapelle Show, where everyone, including women, are slammed. But that’s what I expect, and I never expect to see a Senator there.


Has Imus criticized a Christian and/or Christianity? If he has, why is it our fault for not responding when nobody posts it? Is the criticism leveled at Christian works, or at political activists who think their religious beliefs retain sacred status after injecting it into the political arena?

Bikerdad- I disagree, comics tend to be a pretty diverse group, and, for the most part, support pretty much anything in any kind of act. I have seen plenty of white comics doing black jokes that went over well in front of black audience. Why> Because there was a punchline following the shocking language. It was part of the act, not a random usage in conversation. Imus knows this line, very well.

I mean, c'mon BD- no matter what a person say about him, good or bad, the man is a wordsmith, and knows how they are used, and has used them for a living for over 30 years. That kind of slip up, twice now, doesn't come outta no where.

IF a black comic, or jock, used equally offensive terms, in a similar matter over another race, pick one, I would say the same thing.

BD- let me ask you this- can you give me good examples of radio DJs that have got away with a similar offense, that haven't been fired, for doing it twice?

Give me a specific example, instead of a general one- I support pretty way out there comedy, and go to the shows. I have participated often in a shock jock format local radio station- for years now. These guys push the line and then some. One DJ, a self described Italian walking stereotype. He does racially themed skits on this station, imitating other ethnic groups, and it is funny as hell. Because it is in context of a joke, a punchline, and no one is safe on that show- every group gets to play!

BD- if you give me an example similar to this Imus deal and I promise you- I would be consitant and say the same thing about your example. Show me the language that just about anyone would have the SMACK those words deliver.

If you gonna have a show- and you goin' to work in some incredibly sensitive words- you better have a punch line- just saying.

DG- let me give you an insiders view of morning shock jock mechanism- howard stern kind of invented the genre'- but the genre' is a bit more to it, business wise, than just bustin' on lesbians and strippers and, pardon me, "retards"-

DG- how does one man, maybe even two, have material for a show, and keep it entertaining, 5 days a week,4 hours a day- possibly 2-3 hours of material, depending on how talk heavy format- at least 45-46 years? Well, they can't possibly do it, no more than Jay Leno can. IT is all one business, in fact, I free lance myself locally- it is called a "prep service"- it gives bits of material, for any subscriber to legally use, on air.

So it is a person like Don Imus, that started with a dfferent system, but pretty much uses the same stuff as any other DJs, tailored to his show, by him, legally. A good chunk of it is scanning the news for the ridiculous stories, and, of course, for Don Imus use- political in some cases, the news does provide! Daily! Lots of freelance "prep" services out there, though there are a few big corporate ones, and syndicated stations have thier syndicated prep service etc etc.

So comics and shock jock are very, very closely tie together.

Tell me about your local station in PM, and I can PM my local station (s) and you can get an idea pretty fast.

So Don Imus has had probably at least 20 years of prep service, where they take the sports news, in this case, or talk about the goings on of the station that Imus works . That is casual coversaton, and, if you are going to do a hard core bit- you are very, very aware of it coming up. You talk about it with your co-hosts- though, it is less structured than it sounds, quite organic- but controversial bits, you know when you are going to pull one, especially at his level. Or, you get so comfortable that you think you are invincible for a bit and talk like you do when you are really letting your hair down.

"nappy headed ho" and "jiggaboo" would HAVE to be in his usual vocabulary inorder for that to slip out on air.

99% of radio show DJs have guest comics on thier show on a regular basis, usually promoting the local comedy club. Don Imus is more naitonal, but he still has them close.

That is how you keep the material popping, and don't get the mostly negative critique you see here- I believe it is universal- anyone here actually LIKE his show?

I was a very minor additions when I am at the radio station, but I get to see how the show itself is pulled off quite often.

I would fire him.

Art mirrors the society which creates it NT and it makes no bones what individuals believe about that, its a fundamental truth of anthropology. You want to know the state of a society, you look at the art it produces.


I don't know any of them, I don't know the films either (though I think I saw 'Do the right thing' back when it came out but I don't really remember it well enough to know all the details).

I'm not bothered about these things. This 'shock jock' guy sounds like the sort of person I wouldn't listen to under any circumstances, regardless of who he had on his show. My interest in this thread is how it effects me, and that means in the use of language.


Granted, but I am not saying that. I'm asking why there is one standard for you and another for me? Because your black and I'm white? Here is what I'm talking about:
Now, imagine I said the same thing except I changed the skin tone of the other driver and the style of music...

There's nothing funnier than watching some black dude roll up next to you at a red light and rattling the entire street with the music flowin' out of his Impala as he sings along with Beethoven's 'Ode to joy'.

What would be the implication behind this statement NT? That there is something funny about a person of one ethnicity enjoying the music of another? That black people can't understand the meaning behind a piece of 'white music'? As far as I can see, racism does not exist in language. It exists in people and if you make generalized or derogatory comments about people based on the colour of their skin, no matter what colour it is, then you are being racist. This is what it boils down to. If a white man repeats something risky said by a black man there is an automatic assumption of racism that is not extended to the black man, even if the black man is clearly making racist remarks and even then, as we can see with Ice Cube, often he is rewarded for his racism.
The guy from Seinfeld calls black people names, and his career dies. Ice Cube calls white people names and he gets movie contracts. Its this double standard that I am arguing against. Its not because I want to be allowed to call some one a 'nappy headed ho' (as if), its because I do not want to be subjected to racism myself either.


So its all the fault of ignorant black youths and evil white execs eh? Its that simple... Ice Cube is the same age as me. Thus, through out his career he has been on the same 'level' as me and if I understood his words were racist, then so did he. In fact, I'd say that his racism was deliberate. Any one who quotes Khalid Abdul Muhammed understands context all too well and is certainly not a tool of 'white execs'.