I think the change needs to come from us as a society, though. Yeah, yeah, demand his firing- he'll just be replaced with another hateful moron.
We need to quit listening, we need to shame those people who think it's somehow "funny." And anger at the idiocy of these morons is one way to do that, it's drawing a line in the sand socially.

Indeed. I agree totally. What is so bothersome about cases like this is that in order for people to feel out rage there has to be an added dimension to it, such as racism, sexism or some other form of misogynism.

The plain fact of the matter is, this guy is rude and he is paid to be so. We have people like him in Europe also and I find it annoying that what amounts to nothing more than spite and bad manners is regarded as entertainment.

Publically calling a woman a whore, even if she is a prostitue, is disgraceful behaviour.

According to this report, Halle Berry will be shaving her head for a movie called "Nappily Ever After".

Can I start considering this some type of hate movie?

I guess that depends on the content of the movie, DaytonRocker. What's it about?

Speaking of out-of-touch old guys on the radio, here is Imus genuflecting at the altar of black forgiveness. It's so awkward, I can't even put it into words. This is what he deserves for trying to drop references to School Daze into a radio show as unhip as his. Idiot.

Imus Apologizes to Al Sharpton

If we want to be kind to Don Imus we can use the word insensitive. If we want to be harsh, we can say he's a racist.

If we want to be kind we can say "BLAH BLAH BLAH" is a remarkable literary technique. If we wish to be harsh, we can say it is juvenile and immature.

Perspective?

BTW: Don Imus apologized again today on Al Sharpton's show. Apparently Sharpton was not convinced.

Edit: Sorry Carlito, I didn't see where you had already posted this information. It seems I was writing while you were posting.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/blog/1380.../310008231.html

Look for Imus to enter rehab. We definitely need a new 12 step recovery program called "Racists and Haters Anonymous" for celebrities who get tangled up in their own words.

Jesus Christ. I firmly believe that Al Sharpton believes that he is the Emperor/Justice of the entire Black race. Unbelievable. Imus even calls him "sir" in the beginning. All this over someone calling someone "nappy headed hoes". Incredible. It is clear to me, that in the context of the exchange, Imus was attempting to poke fun at the masculine appearance of the Rutgers team and contrast them with the "cute" Lady Vols...That was his theme the entire time. But I only pray to god that King Sharpton will forgive him, that way all black people in this country will fall in line . Luckily I'm only 40% non-white, I'm out of his jurisdiction
CP

The only reason I see this as racist is because it is. The only racism you see is in accusing a White guy of being racist. Your sympathies lie with the person perpetuating the racism; never with the target of it.



"...IF this was a Black man..." Now here is where your dismissive "BLAH BLAH BLAH would be useful.

But it wasn't a Black man, was it? It wasn't Ice Cube or Khalid Muhammad either. It was a White man and it wasn't funny. And it still wouldn't have been funny IF a Black man had said it. Which kind of makes your feeble analogy somewhat worthless to the debate. Comparing Imus to some local yokel in your neck of the woods is not a particularly useful or relevant comparison. Rickey Smiley didn't make those distasteful and sexist remarks. Don Imus did and that's why he's gotten his shriveled gonads in a vice.



At this moment, there are 16 votes in the poll that agree the remarks by Imus were racist. There are zero votes that the remarks were not racist. Obviously, I'm not alone in my assessment. Some things in this world are bigoted, Aevans176. You just don't seem to know what those things are.

Which is, of course, entirely appropriate and not offensive at all. Nevermind that "jigaboo" is unequivocally a slur, your whole point seems to be that he's just a sexist pig evaluating the physical appearance of atheletes (while being one seriously unattractive man himself) and that's peachy keen.
He's racist and sexist, and also quite stupid, but that tends to go hand in hand with the first two.

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said, right Grendel? I didn't say that the comments were "stupid" and "offensive" and that he "is not being unfairly criticized" right? Oy vey. No one is saying that Imus' comments were appropriate or anything of that ilk.
He didn't use the term "jigaboo", one of his co-workers did. This quote was high on hyperbole, low on facts; once again, I've never said anything he's done is "peachy" nor "keen".
I'm with you with regard to sexism and stupidity, but again, I don't see the racism in the context of the entire segment.

CP

I agree with you to an extent. Such as the word "cute". It may not be easily taken as an insult but I am sure somewhere in the world someone takes offense to it. I think it would really be impossible to say what should be talked about and not overall. More so people forget that imus for what its worth is a show, that you can turn off. You can even go and stand around where its being produced with a sign proclaiming your hatred of him or his behavior or both.

I have cable television. I watch a variety of shows. I also listen to most every form of music except country, I honestly cannot stand how it sounds. Now in the privilege of my American life I have said mean and bad things about country music which I will not repeat here as it has no real use to be. TO what extent is a person denied the freely express or have freedom of speech. Watching mind of mencia its a non stop tirade of racial stereotypes put into a collective blur, I honestly never laugh at that show because its boring, nothing else. The point being is most of the show constantly is built around race. Looking into the audience most every sect of people you can find in America is also present, most the time laughing too.

The problem as I see it is people want to standardize this aspect of life, and I really see that as far more damaging then whatever imus said. Now I have been attacked in this thread, but really what I am trying to defend is imus's right to be a schmuck.

Al Sharpton in my opinion is a clown and I think he is a racist also. I don’t however spend my time or energy attempting to use the government or his buddies to have him banned or made illegal. As far as I know neither of them has used race to promote hate crime, but more on the subject if it were not for the fact people cant seem to get along. Then you get all these neurotic heavy handed people in which every word is the end of the world that want to get angry at those that are capable of laughing and dealing with reality. Now I will not go as far as to say this is what Imus was attempting to do, I do know that like a great many people today and well into the past who have used race, and what exactly is he doing that is so radical really?

I mean America allows rap albums and songs that praise killing white people, far be it from me to say that’s a bit more then what Imus has done I still don’t call for such talk or words to be banned. I dont think being utterly uptight on the issue is ever going to help it at all, in fact I think it will just lead to more al sharptons and david dukes in the world.

In all of this debate we had a person in his own enterprise and embedded in business strtuture speak his mind on something. Nothing more or less, should we as Americans basically say we should not be allowed to do such? I mean you can put your two cents out there and attempt to use the situation to define your political image, personally I don’t care about such, but really, he was a schmuck but in an american way I think its vital. Freedom of speech, without that you have Freedom to be oppressed by whatever the current subjective thought on the issue is. Tomorrow you wont be able to say freedom fries, and the day after that you wont be able to talk at all about anything really. It will be reading the master script of the public relations officer of the Nazi regime.

I have already stated I think what Imus said was racist, but what does that mean in relation to his ability to say it? Howard Stern typically loses large amounts of money to the Nazi empire called the F.C.C and really such a body has tried to outlaw him. Typically when viewing what some kind viral video you can see real freedom of expression that typically is not allowed for the most part in entertainment, its simply lame and implies an uptight society that really cant deal with anything. I mean to take the human experience into account, then to imply a standard to human behavior in the form of entertainment such as art or music, or even words that will not offend on some level, you might as well just ban about everything in existence.

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

No because they are not racist.

2. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew are NOT racist in your opinion, is he being unfairly criticized and a victim of the overly sensitive politically correct?

Let's boil down his "joke". Basically he and his cohorts were saying that one team was good looking and the other team was ugly. He was goofing on the ugly team by using terms that he felt would describe them in a funny way. Nappy, tatooed, Grizzlies, Raptors, etc.

He did not make fun of the other team, whom he considered better looking. They were also predominantly black.

Imus's apologies were not only unnecessary (he regularly makes fun of just about every group of people imaginable) but disheartening. Opie and Anthony were relentless in their criticism of Imus, making joke after joke about what Imus was going to say next to apologize to Sharpton. Of course, Sharpton told Imus that all black people "at their core" believe that all white people hate them and they are just waiting for even the good whites to slip up. Well, there it is. Now we know that all white people hate blacks, case closed because Rev. Sharpton said so.

Imus seemed to be trying to keep his job today. Maybe he is on the line. Wouldn't affect me either way, but if a guy gets fired for something as empty as this joke, then I wonder if Opie and Anthony will be following him. Their jokes today were far further over the proverbial line (and much funnier) than Don Imus's was.

Should Imus apologize for this comment made to Chris Matthews?:

Insensitivity!!

Maybe he should apologize to farmers (or whoever) for calling Hillary Clinton "that buck-tooted witch, Satan."

This is the kind of stuff Imus does. For him to put a group of athletes above his normally insulting ways, simply because they are black, is more a form of racism than making fun of a group of people he considered to be ugly.

I'm waiting for someone to do the math and say that Imus's cancer ranch, where 10% of the kids who come there are black (according to him, with about 50% being minorities) proves he's a racist because it doesn't match the ratio of blacks in the general population.

I'd say the standard that black women with natural hair are unattractive is pretty racist in and of itself. And this is hardly the first time, or even the tenth time, that Imus has said something so incredibly stupid on air.

Aevens- I keep hearing "if black man said it, it would be okay"- and I am saying- no it most certainly would not, no more than calling for the death of the president on air by a black man would be "okay" if a black man said it- because, quite frankly- that is the only words I can think of righ now that would have the same impact. And for it to have the national impact- it would have to be the level of celebrity of Denzel Washington.

But wait a minute- there was a black actor that made some bigoted remarks- he made some very homophobic statements, and boy, Don Imus had no firestorm like the one this guy did- by the name of Isiah Washington - http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index....amp;entry=index

Let me ask you this Aevans- give me a word a black guy can use against a white guy that has the impact of "nappy headed hoes" or "jiggaboo"- I, for the life of me, can't come up with a single racial taunt that a black man could throw at me that has that impact- can you? Can you think of a racial slur a black man could use against a white man that has the sting of "nigger"? I researched, maybe, oh, 1500 racial slurs for a bit I do- precisely on this subject- "cancer" was the closest white-race directed ethnic slur I could find- but still, not widely accepted enough to have any impact.

You come up with a phrase that is as hatefilled a black man could EVEN USE with that impact, much less the black man that said it

and until that your "blah blah blah" is really just full of fecal matter- there is NO paralell you can find- you just can't do it.

This whole "well, a black man can say it but I can't"- well, that is just not true- no matter how many times you say it,

and really- folks that say that kind of stuff (folks that whine about he poor, persecuted christian middle class white man ) can only fall into three groups

1) Ignorant beyond belief
2) Racist
3) See #2

Aevans- you can be as racist as you wish in the comfort of your own home, and throw around the words "nigger, jigaboo, nappy heade hoes" or what ever- and you know what- it would mean nothing- you have no audience to spread that stuff

However- if you are a PROFESSIONAL wordsmith, and you spread that filth, than ya, you are a racist, and deserve to lose your job.

I would fire him just for being stupid if that was the case, I would fire him for being insubordinate, because he had done something like this 2 times before, I would fire him for being racist.

There are a great many DJs I would NOT fire for those same words, including Imus-IF THEY WERE USED AS PART OF THE ACT- not the casual conversation that Imus is using it in - that is why I know he is a racist.

How much of that language do YOU use around the house Aevans? I am willing to bet the word "jigaboo" doesn't come up every time you mention a black- so much that it could slip out at the wrong time, in mixed company?

Do you follow me here?

I can tell you, I, and other white males HAVE used this language- without controversy- because we are making fun, NOT just hurling slurs because we have.

Lenny Bruce was usng harder words than this back in the 60s- and getting laughs. From mixed crowds- because it was damn funny!

I just can't belive you can't see the difference.

I also find it hard to believe, that in this climat of "anything goes" entertainment that you really think Imus is being singled out and being picked on- I know damn well I could get away with that, in front of Al Sharpton himself, if I wrote the gag right.

Actual comments-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF9BjB7Bzr0

There is no way in Gawd's green earth that it could be "put into context".

I have, on the radio, read a list of racial slurs, that went nearly five minutes long, all of them bad- you know how hard it is to find a racial slur that has ANY impact on a white person?

I mean, damn, you have to go for the "yo mama" or something, make fun of your kids or something, to get that sting.

So please Aevans- spare us your righteous indignation at the plight of the white man, until you learn what the heck you are even talking about.

Here is a link to the Bob and Mark show: http://www.kwhl.com/livepages/70.shtml

they can and have said all those bad things, even make parodies of commercials of black men and native men- it is freakin' funny. sometimes anyway LOL-

However- they just don't go around saying "jigaboo" in conversation, or calling local teams, that are black, "nappy headed hoes" either.

Even if they did, I am sure, at least, it would have some freakin' context to it!

I will come right off and say I thought the comments were racist and I believe Imus should be fired, but this is only my opinion.

Now what I am finding funny is how all over the map people are on this. Imus is decidedly liberal, but he has botrh liberals and conservatives defending him so at least nobody here is waiting on their marching orders from party headquarters to give an opinion.

I was just watching Jack Cafferty on CNN and he was excusing what Imus said by saying it was stupid but not racist.

Update:

NBC News & CBS Radio have suspended Don Imus for two weeks:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17999196/

I can't confirm CBS on the net, but the headlines along the bottom of MSNBC indicate that is the case and Olbermann just confirmed this news.

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?
Comments were not racist. The remarks were just like hundreds of others made on the program and they are tongue in cheek.

2. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew are NOT racist in your opinion, is he being unfairly criticized and a victim of the overly sensitive politically correct?
Its just like Sharpton and Jackson to get sexually aroused excited whenever someone says anything that could remotely refer to the race of someone. They are the biggest racists in the world and they make their living on inciting racial tensions.

Overall, the over-sensitivity is disgusting. People are just looking for someone to complain about. I guarantee that someone would call for me to be fired if I said that my grandmother smells because she hasn't taken a bath in four years; Clearly I am anti-elderly!

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

No, he shouldn't be fired! I actually have always wondered why anybody listens to this man! I find his show incredibly boring and unfunny at best. I can't believe he has listeners at all, but he must have good ratings or his show would be a thing of the past!

2. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew are NOT racist in your opinion, is he being unfairly criticized and a victim of the overly sensitive politically correct?

Such insensitive remarks like those IMUS uttered, are about even with what I expect of him! I can't believe he actually apologized to Sharpton! This kind of stuff keeps Al in the news and on the tube; it's right up his alley!
IMO IMUS' show reeks, and hopefully his falling ratings will close him down. What's with all the apologies of late!

You need a racial slur directed at white women to implicate white men. It probably wasn’t Imus’s intention to include black men when he slammed the team’s physical attractiveness, but that is the result. Then, when you find a racial (and sexist) equivalent you amplify it a hundred times to come close to the pressure black girls/women feel to imitate white standards of beauty. And this is the purely sexist aspect of his slam.

Watch Kiri Davis’s video to start having an appreciation for the pressure black girls feel to look white: A Girl Like Me

Unfortunately, even if Imus gets the pink slip racist, sexist, intolerant, etc. remarks won’t drop off the airways. It literally pays to be stupid and vulgar in the media.

Keith Olbermann has an "Apology Hall of Fame" on Countdown. Jimmy Swaggart's tearful apology is perhaps the quintesential. No apology by Imus can top Swaggart's.

To answer your question, apologies are a way to get one's butt out of a bind - to salvage a career, a marriage or perhaps a business connection. If that fails, there's always rehab.

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?


Yes. It happened a couple years back to Rush Limbaugh on ESPN. It happened to Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder years ago. And if I said something similar at my own job, I would expect to be fired as well....regardless of whether it was just supposed to be a joke or not. Some things you just can't joke about. Why isn't this clear by now????

1. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

It depends, if they were indeed racist, I think it shouldn't go unnoticed by his superiors. Im not sure what type of punishment would be proper given the nature of the show, ive never watched it, but it sounds like it's one of those shows that unpolitical correctness is OK.

I grew up in a black neighborhood and I have no objection to calling people what they are. Ive met a lot of niggers and a lot of black people that I became friends with. Just like I have no problem calling people white trash, it doesn't mean that im racist I just call it how I see it. To me a nigger is a gang banging thug that goes around and grabs his balls that talks a lot of smack and thinks its cool to goto jail, ive met white niggers to, it's a lifestyle really. This is were I completely agree with Chris Rock and something ive always though before I even watched his standup comedy about "black people vs niggers" then I thought wow i've always said the same thing. So yes being called a nigger is insulting but not in a racist way to me.

2. If the remarks made by Imus and his crew are NOT racist in your opinion, is he being unfairly criticized and a victim of the overly sensitive politically correct?

Calling someone "nappy headed" doesn't necessarily mean you are racist but I don't know the guy so I can't say for sure because there could be underlyings of racism there. One of my black friends and I used to grab our sack and walk around making fun of all the niggers going "yyoyoyo wassup homey g dog funk". Sometimes some of my black wrestling friends would mess around with me and pull up his pants and make himself talk like some white nerdy guy (I was the only white person on the team). Which I always laughed at it was funny watching a big wrestler that can press 300 lbs act like a nerd, IMO people need to chill out about calling every single remark that could be pointing towards someone's color as racist. Not saying that racism isn't a serious issue but calling someone nappy headed doesn't automatically mean they hate all black people or believe they are sub-human.

I think the question really should be is why is being called "nappy-headed" an insult? Or was it just the "ho" part?

[I was one of the "other" votes because I don't know if it was meant to be racist]

I disagree with those who posted that Imus's comments were not racist. I don't buy it that he was simply trying to get across that the women looked like men. "Jigaboos" and "nappy headed" are not terms that are exclusively used in the gender category, they fall more clearly in the racial category, as stereotypes. He could've commented about tattoos and muscularity and still have been "in-bounds" with his comments, he crossed the line with the above two quotes words.

I think he does deserve the criticism and flak that he's receiving. He may be visiting with the members of the Rutgers basketball team and as posted previously, he's taking two weeks off. I don't agree with Sharpton that he should be fired. No one was killed by his comments and this could be a good way to demonstrate publicly how comments hurt and how a person can attempt to make things right again. If he keeps it up or if he had a long history of saying things like this, then I would change my mind.

Nebraska, just as a point of order. Imus never used the word jigaboo, his colleagues did. He never used a racial slur. Everything he said was in the context of looks.

CP

Same deal with the "nappy headed ho" thing? Was it him that said that or his side kick? I stand corrected on the first part. If he didn't utter both of those words, then it looks as if I'll have somewhat of a complete turn around on this.

So basically you think he wasn't PC enough. If he wanted to say they were ugly, he should have used the words "thus" and "so" but not "nappy" or whatever.

The guy was expressing his opinion. It might be stupid, it might be PC, but there it is. He thought the Tennessee team looked better than the (in his opinion) thuggish Rutgers team.

I'll tell you that I hear insults ten times worse on radio at least once a week. As I mentioned, Opie and Anthony had a virtual plethora of politically incorrect humor today alone. I doubt they'll be fired.

You could smell the blood in the water when Imus started apologizing today saying that these women did not deserve to be made fun of simply because they were black. When your race is the deciding factor, THAT is a racist comment. End of story.

For the record, I'm with ottimista in saying that I can't understand why anyone would listen to Imus. He is boring, predictable, and is just plain bad entertainment and commentary. That being said, I agree that MSNBC and CBS radio are well within their rights to fire the guy for this or any other reason.

Just hold your britches, I'm waiting for CP to clarify something.

After watching all the coverage tonight, it struck me how ironic it was that Imus was getting slammed by some of the biggest racists on the planet.

They never miss an oportunity to miss an opportunity, do they?

Yeah, Nebraska. He said "nappy headed hoes", one of his buddies said jigaboo. Hope that clears things up.

CP

[quote name='Lesly' date='Apr 9 2007, 05:07 PM' post='212378']
[quote name='CruisingRam' post='212368' date='Apr 9 2007, 06:41 PM']You need a racial slur directed at white women to implicate white men. It probably wasn’t Imus’s intention to include black men when he slammed the team’s physical attractiveness, but that is the result. Then, when you find a racial (and sexist) equivalent you amplify it a hundred times to come close to the pressure black girls/women feel to imitate white standards of beauty. And this is the purely sexist aspect of his slam.

Watch Kiri Davis’s video to start having an appreciation for the pressure black girls feel to look white: A Girl Like Me

quote]
[/quote]

That is my point - there are slurs against women, poeple other than white- but there is no single word or words that have the same impact for an American white males.

So- this whole "oh, if a black man said it..." total line of bull puckeis we hear some whining about- is no issue at all- until there is a word that comes to be in our society that has this power.

Imus knows the power of words- so, has either become incompetant in his job (fire him) or he is a racist (fire him)

Why do you think he is so scared he is licking Sharpton boots? He knows he screwed up, he has NO back up from the "industry"- IF this were a "joke" guys like me, hundreds of thousands of them in number, would be all over this, decrying "censorship"- like some have said- he is often considered "liberal"by some, though I always thought he was just trying to be relevent, and still being lame anyway.

This was just a racist statement, because he thought himself invincible- well guess what- um, no your not!

If the remarks made by Imus and his crew about the Rutgers women's basketball team were racist should he be fired?

The viewers/ratings should decide. I do not know him and I don't know what his feelings are towards black people, but I will say this: the people who are the most racist hide it the best.

Stopping words doesn't stop thoughts and emotions. White people will just repress themselves even more and it will create and possibly increase feelings of animosity. That won't help bridge the racial divide.

I have a very low tolerance for being fleeced so I don't think I can stand the suggestion that Imus would have called a team full of white athletes "nappy headed ho's."

Heck yes it's racist.

I don't care if he's fired or not it won't change the real knuckle-draggers out in radio land anyway.

Maybe that just the cynicism talking... fire him for good measure we need more examples anyway.

The real problem, as I see is our exaltation of all things "politically incorrect."

Its funny how we as a society have managed to place boorish behavior on a pedestal and try to validate this by repackaging civility and intelligent discourse as dreaded "political correctness".

Imus is the natural result of the anti-PC crusade. A flag bearer for the middle-aged adolescents of the world.

He's licking Sharpton's boots because men matter. If anyone's boots need licking they belong to the women on the team. Like I just read on a blog, the players will be remembered as the nappy-headed hos, not the players that took the Rutgers team to the championship. I just remembered this. I don't think Imus is going anywhere.

[Executive Producer] MCGUIRK: She strikes me as the kind of woman who would wear one of those suicide vests. You know, walk into the—try and sneak into the Green Zone.
IMUS: Oh, no. No, no, no, no.
MCCORD: Just because she always appears in traditional Arab garb and wearing a burka.
MCGUIRK: Yeah, what's with the head gear? Take it off. Let's see. [...]
MCCORD: Exactly. She cooked with them, lived with them.
IMUS: This is not helping.
MCGUIRK: She may be carrying Habib's baby at this point. [...]
IMUS: She could. It's not like she was representing the insurgents or the terrorists or those people.
MCCORD: Well, there's no evidence directly of that—
IMUS: Oh, gosh, you better shut up! [...]
MCGUIRK: She's like the Taliban Johnny or something.

That is such a ridiculous notion that it barely merits a response. It justifies racism by saying as long as it's all in good fun, the butt of the joke should just go along with the ridicule, contempt and scorn being heaped upon them. What a load of garbage!



Well, hooray for the Imus cancer ranch. I guess that just totally makes his racist ravings and droolings all sweetness and light. This falls in line with the fact that even Hitler had a girlfriend and liked dogs, so he wasn't ALL bad.



Thank you Lesly for sharing that excellent video. It clearly drives home the dilemma Black women deal with living in their own skin when they are held up against a Eurocentric standard of beauty they can't achieve. I see so many sisters going blonde like Beyonce and I wonder do they really think that makes them more attractive.



I'm SO happy of the outpouring of concern ConservPat, Amlord, Aevans176, Dayton Rocker and others demonstrated have for poor old Imus getting beat up because some folks can't take a joke. It's touching, really.

But seeing how there's damn little concern for the real victims, HERE are the now renowned "nappy-headed hoes" of the Rutgers women basketball team. They are Matee Ajavon, Essence Carson, Dee Dee Jernigan, Rashidat Junaid, Myia Mccurdy, Epiphanny Prince, Judith Brittany Ray and Kia Vaughn.

So sorry they aren't as easy on the eyes as THIS good lookin' stud muffin.

Well Turnea- I think there is more than a kernel of truth in what you say- there is a thin line between suppression of expression and boorishness for boorishness sake.

I do think there is some hyper-sensitivity to being "politically correct"- it can be real darn silly sometimes, and when I see it, I tend to be more than a bit boorish, to defeat this supression of human expression.

Richard Pryor's use of the word "nigger" really started this trend, as I said before- not that others before him didn't use this expression, but Richard Pryor had really hoped to lesson the impact of this word by "making it his own" kinda thing. And, in fact, it did change the word's usage, though not a complete conversion I think he was hoping for - and, I think it grew into a monster he never wish to create as well-

and that is the risk you take when being on the cutting edge of a variety issues through entertainment.

One can say that comics like Bill Cosby, Richard Pryor, Goerge Carlin and Lenny Bruce helped really get an honest dialogue, through looking at the ridiclous power we put behind certain words.

Turnea- you, as a black man, have no verbal tool in your arsenal like the ICBM I have in my arsenal as a white man to hurl a racial slur at you like the "N" word.

Some folks here really despise Al Sharpton- but in reality, his power wouldn't exist if white racists didn't do what they do.

Words are very, very powerful things, some of them last throughout the ages as quotes, translated into other languages, where they still retain thier power.

A professional in the industry that Don Imus is employed in, with his listener base, knows it far better than I can, as a bit player in this industry.

Don Imus is no friend of the religious right or the liberal left- he is equally annoying to both IMHO- though, if I had to pigeon hole him, I would say left of center.

If the media and actors and comedians are so far left, and it is to be believed that the liberals "in the industry" protect thier own- I would say, if it weren't racist- there would be a hue and cry on "censorship" and such- but there won't be, because it was simply a racist statement.

If you look in some historical figures, you will find thier speech very "un-PC" for thier day, to the point it got them locked up- in fact, Lenny Bruce got locked up for obscenity charges.

2livecrew, for instance, was a second rate rap group out of florida- until some idiot redneck bofford pusser roscoe coltrain sherrif arrested them and made them famous.

Same with Larry Flynt.

It is always the scumbags blowhards of society that push the envelope to see how free we really are.

I would say one of the finest moments in US history, as far as PROVING we are a nation of the free, was the day the SCOTUS ruled in favor of Larry Flynnt.

That being said- there is a definate "dumbing down" in writing that you have to do now in order to play for our increasingly unsophisticated and ignorant and even downright stupid audience we now have to entertain.

A well turned phrase may very well be missed without the "F-bomb" being placed in there somewhere!

Bill Maher did far less on "Politically correct" and was fired. Dan Rather commited a smaller mistake with his forging issue than GW did with his- both would be called "liberals"- and they both were headed off stage, and someone else will have to deal with that crap.

I think Don Imus knows how far he crossed the line his time, and I think if he loses this show, he knows his career is over, no HBO special for that has been!

Turnea- like with Goerge Carlin, you think if I spewed out all the racial invectives I could write down in two days, that, at the end of that, I had something relative to say, you would get a pretty good belly laugh out of it.

Once again- not "politically correct" but context, and in this one, racist.

It's WORDS, Nighttimer. Don't blow it out of proportion. Nobody was killed.



Are you doing something more than that yourself? Why knock his efforts, if they are of any help whatsoever.



Are you saying that Imus is a genocidal murderer? You are comparing his "racist words" with an evil dictator who helped carry out the murder of millions of people. Is that really a valid comparison?

Perhaps you should take a load off and lighten up a little bit. Nobody died because of the man's comments.

Neither does degrading a group of women because you don't like their looks.

But to take your point, am I to believe spewing racial invective about "jiggaboos" and "nappy headed hoes" is a form of therapy for White people? My God, I had no idea!




That's right doomed planet. Just WORDS. Just repellent, malicious, spiteful and hateful WORDS. Nobody was killed. Somebody should be fired.

Thanks for your concern, but you can keep your advice. Sometimes the world needs a little anger. Too much of this kind of sewage flowing from rednecks like Don Imus goes unchecked because people rather be polite and tip-toe around the nasty crap he spews instead of name-checking him and calling him on it.

------------------+-=-=-0=-0=-0=-9808-98

There's this commons trend among Americas Debate, and probably armchair intellectuals in general, which is to take an obvious matter, and play 'devils advocate,' if you will. Its a way of exploring the nuances of even the most seemingly simple matter. And it makes for great conversation.

However, in racial discussions, I always wonder whether something more nefarious is afoot. Clearly, there is nothing un-racist about calling a group of athletes 'nappy-headed hos.' Nappy hair is a black trait, not one that should necessarily be linked with unattractiveness or sexual promiscuity at that. Yet thats precisely what he is doing.

That is:

1.) equating black hair with unattractive hair
2.) and equating it with sexual promiscuity.

Despite all the nuances coming from CP or Amlord, I'm at a lost to describe how this comment acheived anything else. Even if he remarked about the cuteness of another primarily black team, he is still branding a black physcial feature as undesirable. That comment has gotta represent some kinda racism, and regardless, it shouldn't be on the air.

But back to my orignal point: predictably enough, in a media-wide discussion on race, the members of Don Imus's race -- Don Imus being the villain -- naturally react to the villanization of Imus with repudiation. The way in which our media publically roasts Don Imus for speaking his [racist] mind, naturally implicates the totality of 'the white male' in the process. Because most white men don't feel they deserve the specter of white guilt that is being projected here, we defend Imus for either:

-"speaking his mind,"
-or rebelling against PC standards, artificially imposed from above.

Let phrase this another way:

The monster-ization of Don Imus only in turn, makes white men feel that they are being monster-ized in the process... or to put it musically, "nobody knows what its like to be the bad man... behind blue eyes"

Ironically, Don Imus's comments and the media's reaction to it serve only to identify and define particular racial groups, specifically along negative lines.

In this way, race is furthered as a decisize factor in identify formation... nappy head= promiscuous, white male = old, racist villain.

But my point is that any AD posters who resent this process -- and use overly nuanced debate to confusticate the matter -- need to recognize that this villianization of the white male feeds of the likes of Don Imus, Rush Limbaugh-- and for that matter, our own president, whose campaign team sullied John McCain for adopting a "black baby."

So you if resent the way in which White Men are being villainized starring Don Imus as the Media's Pinata, then that means you have sufficient common ground to relate with the 'nappy headed hos' of Rutgers Basketball. So consider where the real enemy lies in this discussion of race. It has nothing to do with 'PC,' whatever that still stands for.

I'm sure that since there are 5 pages here, I've managed to miss the remark someone has to have made by now that since nobody listens to Imus, no one could have been offended.

My personal opinion is that there were a couple radio comedians making jokes, and like good comedians do (not that Don Imus is a good comedian), they offended people. To be honest I could care less. Some humor is insightful, some is gross, some is intricate and intelligent. Other humor is based on the idea of pushing an envelope so far that it's just funny to actually hear people say what they're saying. The best humor is when all of these things combine to make a smart joke.

This comedy bit (and that's what it was intended to be) just happened to be an envelope pusher that went too far, for a larger portion of people than usual. I know it made me laugh. Of all the things Don Imus said today, only one statement seemed to truely be an honest one.

Quote Imus



This to me is what the entire incident can be boiled down to. And in my opinion, words rarely hurt people enough to make this big a deal about them.

I guess I'm just not thin skinned enough to care. Howard Stern (now, and when he was on the radio air waves) makes worse jokes that are more depraved and they make me laugh. They make a lot of people laugh. In fact Howard has a large portion of black listeners and he constantly has black entertainers on his shows, why does no one care that he does this? And before you tell me you do care, you'd better show me a previous "Fire Stern!" thread.

Having read the whole of what was said and not just the sound bites the news gives us, I was really surprised to learn that Imus' side kick actually used the word "jigaboo"! WOW! Now that's pushing the envelope! To me that's a lot worse than "nappy headed ho's", but go figure.

The funniest part of this mess is that now that people know what he says on his show, and he's not getting fired, his ratings may actually go up. That's something that in all his years in radio he was never able to achieve without a race fueled scandal. Now the people who have lobbied to push this in the press and screamed about the need to fire him have more than likely contributed to his future success. Go figure.

Yes, he does.

Racist.

I don't know why it is that this word has become so commonly synonomous with white men, but it has. There is a wide spread perception that white 'Eurocentric' people, especially men, are all racists. I encounter it all the time. You can quickly spot it when people start talking about 'white people' as one monolithic homogenous group.

In Europe, thanks to the actions of a minority of political and religious extremists, the word 'racist', often camoflaged by the words 'colonialism', 'imperialist', 'Islamophobe' or 'kuffar' has taken on so great a significance that it is being used to change the face of our continent for ever and millions of Europeans currently live in a state where radios gladly play songs by Arabs and black people advocating white genocide whilst more and more 'white Europeans' refuse to bring children into a world they can no longer care for.

Bring this up in a debate in Europe and you'll have left wing feminists telling you they refuse to give birth to a white man. Muslims telling you the future belongs to them. A multitude of scorn poured on Europe's history and culture as nothing but the 'lies and hypoocrisy of dead white males'. Our governments constantly must apologise for atrocities none of us had any part in and any good we ever did, no matter how contemporary, is forever swept aside by talk of colonialism, slavery and the Holocaust. I've never owned or even seen a slave and a good proportion of my family died in the Holocaust, and yet, I'm constantly likened to the people who carried out these atrocities.

All nighttimer has to do to discredit me, is accuse me of racism on the basis of my opinions regarding an ideology. He doesn't even have to use the word 'racist'. He merely has to imply it.

The weight of that word is destroying us. Once an accustation of racism has been made, no matter how unfouneded, whether or not it is ambiguous or even ridiculous, it sticks. If you are a white male then you are more often than not guilty until proven innocent. We have all been found guilty of being white.

Essentially I believe this is one of the reasons why more and more white people are voting to the right. The feeling of guilt for crimes one never committed is increasingly painful. It is a form of racism just as unfair and harsh as anything levelled at a black person who must suffer the pressures of conforming to a Eurocentric notion of beauty or called a bad name.

Your man Richard Pryor sought to disarm the word 'nigger' by adopting it into his routine you say. What did that accomplish? A generation of black people now live with a word that should have been consigned to the history books until it had no more adverse meaning than the word 'barbarian', and a generation of white people must live with a burden of association to slave owners. More and more issues are being defined under the banner of race and the end consequence of this is the gradual death of Eurocentric culture. Some one here quoted this Sharpton fellow as saying 'all blacks expect whites to be racists'. Interesting given how many white kids now listen to hip hop music and refer to each other as 'homie's' and 'my nigga'. Apart from a spectacle for nighttimer to laugh at, what does that make them? racists? If they're white, then yes.

My whole generation grew up listening to black music and calling for the end of apartheid. We watch and admire black actors and sports people. We cheer them on when they run for our country, and sometimes even when they don't. We treat them as brothers and sisters. We adopt them as our own and empathise with them. And in return we are labelled racist. All it takes is for one accusation of racism and the whole debacle gets rebooted back to square one.

Right now in Darfur, there is one bunch of black 'African Arabs' murdering another bunch of black Africans and their reasons are grounded in racial and cultural differences. Do you suppose these Janjaweed are labelled racists in the common debate?
No.

Their Saudi backers?
No.

The racists, as we are constantly reminded, are the Europeans who refuse to get involved.


You make an inappropriate comment with a racial connotation, no matter the context, and you'll have to apologise really fast or else you'll be branded a racist. But if your not 'white', well, you can assault a white man in front of one quarter of the worlds population and the French President will happily shake your hand.

That buddy was Imus's producer Barnard McGuirk. I haven’t heard anything about him being suspended by either NBC news or ABC Radio. I realize Imus is the "big name" and I don't doubt that he deserves the suspension, but isn't McGuirk as culpable as Imus? Shouldn't the radio powers that be discipline both of them? This would be something like a teacher and principal standing in a classroom making unfitting remarks and only the teacher getting in trouble. After spending several decades in public education, I can see that happening.

I just noticed in the MSNBC story that the "show" had been suspended for two weeks. This would/could mean both the clown and his sidekick. As long as neither receive pay, that's fair.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17999196/



If MSNBC and CBS radio are to be taken at their word, a questionable proposition indeed, then Imus will be on a short leash when he returns. Just because "this is the kind of stuff Imus does," does not mean he can't be forced, or if the apologies are sincere, choose to do something else. Time will tell.

BTW: I hadn’t heard the term “jigaboo” since I was an elementary school kid playing baseball on a sandlot. Technological advancement is evident, but this must, just must call human social development - call it evolution if you will - into question.

Oh right. Forgive me for telling Nebraska that Imus didn't use the word jigaboo. It's not as if that's an important part of the incident or anything . I'll say it one more time, because it's starting to get more than a little annoying having my views distorted [and because I've already said twice that his statement was offensive I'm going to intentionally distorted]: I DO NOT EXCUSE WHAT IMUS SAID. I'VE REPEATEDLY CALLED HIS STATEMENTS "STUPID" AND "OFFENSIVE". Futhermore, I've said twice now that he is NOT being unfairly criticized for them. Spare me the 'you're sticking up for a racist' nonsense.

He referred to them as hos several times before bringing "nappy hair" into the equation. Again THIS DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT. But it does away with the theory that he's calling them hos because of a black characteristic.

You're absolutley right, BOF. McGuirk [who has said questionable if not blatantly racist things before] should be either suspended or fired given the fact that he was the only one who used a racial slur in the whole commentary. He should be the one appologizing to the all forgiving Mr. Sharpton.

CP

Since Mr. Imus is a wordsmith by profession and he has time to reflect on the comments maybe just maybe we should be given the benefit of the doubt.

If he can make a non-racist joke with the terms "Rugter's Women Basketball", "Nappy Headed Ho's" and "Jigaboo" all in the same joke then and only then would I believe that he was merely attempting to make a lame joke that went awry. Otherwise I would have a very hard time believing him.

As for his running to the Reverand Al ("The Mouth") Sharpton for forgiveness, well they are kind of like two peas in a pod. Neither one should ever be given a radio show.

Just who exactly are you speaking ofhere? Julian Bond?, Al Sharpton? Jesse Jackson? On top of that, does it justify Imus's comments in any way? Imus should be judged on Imus alone, any other situation should be treated likewise, within the context of who said it and within who opened their in the first place by themselves.


Amlord-So CP confirmed that Imus did say "nappy headed hos." That is not a description of a "physical-woman-into-a-man-haha" comment. It's clearly a racial one. It isn't un-P.C., it's racist. And the whole P.C. linguistic thing does nothing more than to legitimize oppressive language and to excuse racism, sexism, and any other "isms" there are.

Cry me a river, Moif. Your martyr complex is showing.

In the entire time I have been a member of there have been perhaps two or three individuals I have accused of being racists and you are not one of them. I don't have to discredit you Moif by making unfounded allegations. But if I quote you accurately and you come off as biased or insensitive, I don't feel any responsibility for that may be interpreted.

It's unfortunate when people may blanket condemnations based upon an erroneous and possibly outdated, inaccurate stereotype, but that's kind of what got this topic started in the first place, isn't it? Imus and his cohorts pander to the lowest common denominator and this time they stooped too low. Sucks for them, but I don't see how that has anything to do with you going off about "being found guilty of being White."

You are the one taking one isolated incident of a hack shock jock and his band of like-minded idiots being taken to the woodshed for their blatantly stupid and bigoted remarks and have blown it up to a worldwide conspiracy to emasculate White men. Pardon me if I think that's more than a little bit of hyperbole. When did this turn into a "boo-hoo, I'm a White guy. Nobody loves me" pity party?

White men like you and Don Imus are not the injured party here and don't get it twisted that you are. This is about eight Black women being played for some cheap racist laugh and I will not allow you to turn this into a referendum on your White man's persecution complex.



Show me where I said you were "sticking up for a racist" ConservPat. What I am saying is you have tried to have it both ways: You say the remarks were stupid and offensive and then you say it was no big deal. Well, which is it?

"There's no reason to fire him and he's already appologized, it's time to move on because in the grand scheme of things, this statement really doesn't matter at all."

"And this brings me to my other point...Who cares? So he gave a half-[expletive deleted] appology? The world keeps on spinning, no one is thinking less of the Lady Scarlett Knights or black women in general because Don Imus happened to call a few of them ugly. This simply is NOT A BIG DEAL."

"I still cannot understand how this can possibly be construed as racism...It's time for us to start treating comments made by people like him as the non-issues they are."

All this over someone calling someone "nappy headed hoes"

"I'm with you with regard to sexism and stupidity, but again, I don't see the racism in the context of the entire segment."

"Imus never used the word jigaboo, his colleagues did. He never used a racial slur. Everything he said was in the context of looks."

So, if I have it straight and haven't "distorted" your previous statements, it's okay to call a group of Black women, "nappy headed hoes" because there's nothing racist about it. It's a non-issue and only a negative comment on their looks, and while it IS sexist and stupid it doesn't cross the line into being a racist remark since being branded a sexist and not very smart is a lot better than being name-checked as a racist.

It's just my opinion, but that sure looks like you're defending Don Imus.



Ah yes, the magnificent Mr. McGuirk. The real fiend of this little melodrama. Here's another one of his greatest hits on Black women:

...host Don Imus brought up McGuirk's prior impersonations of African-American poet Maya Angelou asking, "[W]ho was that woman you used to do, the poet? ... We used to get in all that trouble every time you'd do her." As McGuirk launched into the impersonation, Imus said, "I don't need any more columns. Come on." But Imus did not stop McGuirk, who delivered his impression in verse:

McGUIRK: Whitey plucked you from the jungle for too many years

Took away your pride, your dignity, and your spears

[...]

McGUIRK: With freedom came new woes

Into whitey's world you was rudely cast

So wake up now and go to work?

You can kiss my big black *** http://mediamatters.org/items/200703070009

So while Imus may be an occasional offender of Black women, McGuirk is a habitual and repeat offender. And I suppose if Imus didn't find McGuirk a useful foil for his own race-baiting bull he would get rid of him and find someone else to play the initiator of these moronic little games. Nice try, CP, but these over-aged frat boys are joined at the hip in their shared stupidity.

They should BOTH be stuffed in the same bottle and thrown out in the low tide.

You haven't. The purpose of the singe apostrophe was to show that I was paraphrasing...It wasn't very clear, but I was paraphrasing what you've been saying.

Unimportant and offensive are not mutually exclusive. My argument the entire time has been, yes, Imus said something stupid and offensive, but given the fact that this is one of the least important "news" items in recent memory, I don't see the real importance of it.
Oy vey. No, Nighttimer, not at all. I'll repeat myself again. What Imus said IS NOT OKAY! Could that possibly be any clearer...Could I put it MORE bluntly, because if I can PLEASE tell me how to. I've NEVER called what he said okay, NEVER. ONCE AGAIN, I've said that his comments were stupid and offensive but in the grand scheme of things AREN'T IMPORTANT. Can you PLEASE make an attempt to distinguish being generally insigfinicant with being "OKAY"?
I'm sorry. Help me out here Nighttimer. Point out for me where I said "being branded a sexist and not very smart is a lot better than being name-checked as a racist" or anything like it.

On edit: I'm pretty sure Imus doesn't have the power to "get rid of", well, anyone.

One more time:
What Don Imus said is offensive and stupid, not racist.
What Don Imus said, in the grand scheme of things, is meaningless.
What Don Imus said has earned him a FAIR amount of criticism.
What Don Imus said is NOT. O. KAY.

CP

There is little doubt he was making fun of their appearance. There is no doubt that he insulted them and that he meant to insult them. There is no doubt he used a term that he probably would not have used to insult a group of white women. The comments he made were racial. But none of those are the question. The question is not whether the comments were racial, but whether they were racist.

Some in this discussion make no distinction between a racial comment or joke and a racist comment or joke. But is this group of women (the Rutgers basketball team) above all attempts to make fun of them simply because they are black? Or are they only above white men making fun of them?

Suppose the team was predominantly white and Imus said they were buck-toothed hillbilly skanks, would there be some outcry? Somehow, I doubt it.

I coach girls basketball and I know that being cute is certainly no advantage in basketball. Imus was making a very common joke regarding the appearance and mannerisms of female athletes-- they are stereotyped as ugly and manly. This isn't my beef. Personally, I cannot stand Epiphanny Prince, one of the stars of Rutgers. Last year she scored 113 points in a high school game. The other team had 32 points. Go go Miss Bigshot! Total lack of sportsmanship. Add to that her arrest in high school for assault, menacing, and harassment (she was found guilty of only harassment) and there you go.

Just to supplement that AMlord:




CP

I submit that you are both right here. The comments are clearly racist, and they are also clearly stupid. I'm no fan of Imus, but I don't think he's overtly racist, either. I think he said something stupid that happened to be racist. To me, this does change the nature of it. Consider the case of Mel Gibson. What he said was stupid, and racist. But he only had the one tirade, and he was very drunk when it happened. Which then takes precedence, stupidity, or racism? I think if it's only one instance, then it's more stupid than racist. If it happens again (and again and again), then a pattern forms and it becomes more racist than stupid. This falls in line with the definition of the term, as well.



It takes a lot more than one comment to become a doctrine, or even to indicate a belief. Therefore, a single comment can't really be racist, even if it has racist connotations. It can be a prejudiced comment:



Clearly this statement falls into that category. What is something done without knowledge? Well...it's stupid.