Local Master Sergaent was awarded the highest honors from France, usually reserved for the French Foreign legionares, for his valor in battle involving a firefight in Afghanistan (look at the dude- you want him on your side, don't ya! )

If you read the story- you will read about the French soldiers and US soldiers fighting together. What you might not read is the rest of his story- about the valour of the French soldiers he was fighting side by side with, and the respect he had for them, and how professional they were, and how, in the face of horrible battle, peformed thier duty as admirably as any US soldier.

http://www.adn.com/news/military/iraq/stor...p-8673979c.html

"Everybody was in the fight," he said. "There were a lot of other guys who did some phenomenal things."

Maj. Gen. Craig Campbell, the adjutant general of Alaska, presented both medals at a ceremony at Anchorage's Fort Richardson

Meegan returned to Anchorage from his last tour of duty just last week. After receiving his combat honors Friday, he boarded a plane returning to Afghanistan, where he will serve in a similar capacity for another year.

He is a highly decorated combat veteran. This was his fifth Bronze Star. His other decorations include the Meritorious Service Medal, nine Army Commendation Medals, 15 Army Achievement Medals and an Air Force Achievement Medal.


Considering how it is so sacrilgious to not "support the troops"- shouldn't there be equal admiration and protection from hatred for those troops serving beside US troops-?

Is it wrong for the US to spit on french soldiers (metaphorically) while they are serving along side, and comrades with, our own soldiers?

Considering how it is so sacrilgious to not "support the troops"- shouldn't there be equal admiration and protection from hatred for those troops serving beside US troops-?

Is it wrong for the US to spit on French soldiers (metaphorically) while they are serving along side, and comrades with, our own soldiers?

This is really one question, so let me say "yes."

What I must question, however, is the premise that Americans are heaping scorn on French soldiers. I think I see where you are coming from; all the stuff about "freedom fries" and "surrender monkeys" and all the other remarks that have been made about France by some Americans. As foolish as these remarks may have been, I think that they were never intended to criticize French soldiers, but rather French policy, on a governmental level. It's fine for nations which are, more or less, on the same side to have major policy disagreements; it's fine for citizens of one nation to criticize the policies of the government of another nation. It's silly to express these opinions in phrases such as "the French are cowards" or "Americans are stupid."

Is there somebody out there who admires the American soldiers and disdains the French soldiers? If so, this would certainly seem to be very strange behavior.

Well, apparently you haven't heard or seen all the jokes about French soldiers and thier cowardly behavior that I do on the net and in person.

Let me ask you this- do you ever hear much complimentary about the french POEPLE? How about praise on the radio and TV for the French soldiers? Won't hear it I don't think?

You may feel that it is about the goverment- but I just don't get that vibe at all.

Considering how it is so sacrilgious to not "support the troops"- shouldn't there be equal admiration and protection from hatred for those troops serving beside US troops-?

I'm not sure it's so "sacreligious" to not support the troops. Look at the 'Iran seizes 15 soldiers thread' and see some posters on this very forum think the troops can and should be abducted at the whim of a theocratic dictatorship, and it's all just fine. Hardly troop support, and yet the government hasn't shut the site down.

Is it wrong for the US to spit on french soldiers (metaphorically) while they are serving along side, and comrades with, our own soldiers?

I think US citizens should have more respect for the French, yes. Personally I don't think the average person even realizes that French forces are fighting alongside ours (and have in Lebanon and Haiti, as well as elsewhere). Some of that might have something to do with the fact that they left the NATO alliance (militarily) a couple of decades ago.

Another factor is, the French themselves don't wish to be associated with us militarily, which is probably shrewd on their part. Chirac said something to the effect of "My formula for foreign policy is to look at what America does and do the opposite". His statement had a very small basis in reality since we work with the French on counter-terrorism and intelligence activity very closely. They are one of our closest allies in that respect. But what politicians say in public and do in private are often conflicting.

And France is very much in the war business, contrary to popular belief. It is now a larger weapons exporter than the US.

CR

Like Victoria I'm a little confused by this topic at least within the confines of your thread. There's nothing that claims the French are cowards. Yes, Willie (the janitor from The Simpson's) once called them French Surrender Monkeys which was then parroted by Ann Coulter - but I don't see any of that within your thread.

America and France have been at Culture War since the inception of America but we have always been great allies and we have always fought together. Currently France and the US are "cool" in our relationship but that happens with friends now and again.

The entire Freedom Fry thing has blown over and I don't think the French are the target of much scorn lately. I mean if you posted this 2 years ago I think you might have some traction but now...

Considering how it is so sacrilgious to not "support the troops"- shouldn't there be equal admiration and protection from hatred for those troops serving beside US troops-?
Categorically speaking, no, yes, maybe. When they are actually serving beside US troops, then yes. When they are "walking the walk", then yes. Often, however, this isn't the case. An example would be the German troops in Afghanistan. Should we have "equal admiration" for them? No, because they are not involving themselves in combat. Admittedly, this is a decision of their government, and so it would be unfair and unjust to accuse the troops of being cowards, yet it is just as unfounded to consider them courageous. There just isn't enough info available to make much of a evaluation either way.

Is it wrong for the US to spit on french soldiers (metaphorically) while they are serving along side, and comrades with, our own soldiers?
Yes, it is wrong to spit on French soldiers (metaphorically) while they are serving alongside our troops, but such "wrongness" doesn't necessarily extend to French government, French culture, or the French people. The disrespect shown for the French is rooted in large part in the ongoing cultural conflict between the US and France. Franco-American relations have always been "prickly", and the explicitly articulated policy of Chirac to oppose America simply because, well, we're America, has only worsened things. So, while the guy in the trenches is appreciated and respected, the awareness that the French gov't, French culture, and the French people are at the forefront of anti-Americanism amongst our "allies" isn't being forgotten.

Heck, half of it is simply the Anglophone vs. Francophone clash, one that's been going on for better than a thousand years. William the Conqueror, Joan of Arc, Napoleon, Trafalgar, Wellington, the Seven Years War, etc, etc, etc...

Someone has to be quite ignorant of history to scorn the valor of the French. In 1914-1918 their troops were simply the best among the Allies, and they fought very valiantly, and at great cost, in defeat in 1940. The works of Bernard Fall, notably Street without Joy and Hell in a Very Small Place, vividly recount the futility and tragic heroism of the French experience in Indochina during the 1940s and 50s.

Really, the French experience in war simply dwarfs the American experience. World War I was fought largely on French soil: look at a good map and notice that there are vast sections of eastern France where there are no more small towns or villages. Out of a population of 40 million at the time, the French lost two million, including half a million civilians. Read Alistair Horne's The Price of Glory: Verdun 1916 -- then scorn the French.

Considering how it is so sacrilgious to not "support the troops"- shouldn't there be equal admiration and protection from hatred for those troops serving beside US troops-?

Yes

Is it wrong for the US to spit on french soldiers (metaphorically) while they are serving along side, and comrades with, our own soldiers?
Who does this? I dislike the stupid, corrupt French government not French soldiers.

BD, I don't see how you can support the French troops if you don't support their government. Aren't you the one often citing this as the salient problem with the anti-war Iraq War folks?


Or, maybe, I'm thinking of Ted.

Considering how it is so sacrilgious to not "support the troops"- shouldn't there be equal admiration and protection from hatred for those troops serving beside US troops-?

Indeed. But nationalistic/patriotic prides often shadows this reality.


Is it wrong for the US to spit on French soldiers (metaphorically) while they are serving along side, and comrades with, our own soldiers?

I don't see why the US would spit on our (French) soldiers. That would be shameful.

Well, neither of those comments is really true on the whole, but its also fairly irrelevant. Certainly the French troops in WWI were not much worse on the average than the rest of the Allied Troops, and in WWII their main failing was not lack of courage but an idiotic strategic plan, poor use of resources and an absolute refusal of the high command to modernise tactical thinking. French military forces are often blamed for the defeat of 1940, when the speed of the defeat is in fact not really their fault, but their collection of horrendous Strategic commanders.


On topic, the REAL problem has been the unbelievable and continuous desire of some (usually but not always) on the far-right to make up things about the French.

-Potential links between a member of the French Government and one businessman who's company was involved for food leads them to rant about 'Corrupt French government' (All the while ignoring far CLOSER links between Bush jr and US companies involved in the oil for food scandal)

-France's relucance to enter the Iraq war 2.0 is seen as evil and corrupt, people make up stories about them blocking every UN move when in fact the last UN resolution asking for just 2 more months on behalf of the Inspectors was a French resolution, and they had promised NOT to VETO any war resolution (though they were silent on supporting it)

-These people tout to the skies the fact that 21% of the Oil-for-Food corruption money went to French companies, ignoring of course that 54% of the corruption money went to US companies.


There are many others. However, as BA said earlier, with the exception of the occasional person here who still makes stuff up about the French when convenient, this debate has pretty much blown over. The large majority of Americans have realised that the French were right about Iraq in pretty much everything they stated at the time. There is still tension of course, and will be again in the future most likely. But the bizarre anti-French burst of Insanity of 3-4 years ago is long gone, and its practitioners hopefully deeply embarassed.