Full Version: The smuggling of Iraqi oil continues
Any thoughts on how to win a war in Iraq where pilfering of their major resource continues apace and substantial amounts of the revenue are being syphoned off to the insurgents?
http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=3754
Questions for discussion:
Do you think the US can seriously put a dent in the corruption surrounding oil in Iraq? If so how?
How do we bring the insurgency under control when apparently so much of the financing comes from the pilfering of oil and oil products
Define winning the war in Iraq in a society that is indemically corrupt, particularly around its major resource, oil.
http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=3754
QUOTE
Between 100,000 and 300,000 barrels a day of Iraq’s declared oil production over the past four years is unaccounted for and could have been siphoned off through corruption or smuggling, according to a draft American government report.
----------------------------------------------------
Iraqi and American officials have previously said that smuggling of refined products like gasoline and kerosene is probably costing Iraq billions of dollars a year in lost revenues. The smuggling of those products is particularly feared because officials believe that a large fraction of the proceeds go to insurgent groups.
-------------------------------------------------------
Missing Oil “That’s a staggering amount of oil to lose every month,” said Philip K. Verleger Jr., an independent economist and oil expert. “But given everything else that’s been written about Iraq, it’s not a surprise.”
----------------------------------------------------------
As sizable as a discrepancy of as much as 300,000 barrels a day would be in most parts of the world, some analysts said it could be expected in a country with such a long, ingrained history of corruption.
“It would be surprising if it was not the case,” said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, which closely follows security and economic issues in Iraq. He added, “How could the oil sector be the exception?”
----------------------------------------------------
Iraqi and American officials have previously said that smuggling of refined products like gasoline and kerosene is probably costing Iraq billions of dollars a year in lost revenues. The smuggling of those products is particularly feared because officials believe that a large fraction of the proceeds go to insurgent groups.
-------------------------------------------------------
Missing Oil “That’s a staggering amount of oil to lose every month,” said Philip K. Verleger Jr., an independent economist and oil expert. “But given everything else that’s been written about Iraq, it’s not a surprise.”
----------------------------------------------------------
As sizable as a discrepancy of as much as 300,000 barrels a day would be in most parts of the world, some analysts said it could be expected in a country with such a long, ingrained history of corruption.
“It would be surprising if it was not the case,” said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, which closely follows security and economic issues in Iraq. He added, “How could the oil sector be the exception?”
Questions for discussion:
Do you think the US can seriously put a dent in the corruption surrounding oil in Iraq? If so how?
How do we bring the insurgency under control when apparently so much of the financing comes from the pilfering of oil and oil products
Define winning the war in Iraq in a society that is indemically corrupt, particularly around its major resource, oil.
This is about the same amount of oil Saddam was smuggling and the only thing we can hope is that the terrorists have no access to the funds.
Do you think the US can seriously put a dent in the corruption surrounding oil in Iraq? If so how?
Not sure since many oil producing countries has the same problem esp. those in Africa.
How do we bring the insurgency under control when apparently so much of the financing comes from the pilfering of oil and oil products
With a political soplution that makes them part of the government.
Do you think the US can seriously put a dent in the corruption surrounding oil in Iraq? If so how?
Not sure since many oil producing countries has the same problem esp. those in Africa.
How do we bring the insurgency under control when apparently so much of the financing comes from the pilfering of oil and oil products
With a political soplution that makes them part of the government.
QUOTE(Ted @ May 14 2007, 03:18 PM) 
This is about the same amount of oil Saddam was smuggling and the only thing we can hope is that the terrorists have no access to the funds.
But apparently they do, so doesn't that put us in the position of at least indirectly subsidizing them?
QUOTE
Not sure since many oil producing countries has the same problem esp. those in Africa.
But the resources obtained from smuggling in Africa aren't being employed to procure weaponry to be used against our soldiers.
QUOTE
QUOTE
How do we bring the insurgency under control when apparently so much of the financing comes from the pilfering of oil and oil products
With a political soplution that makes them part of the government.
But some of these smugglers are Al Qaeda. How do you make a political solution with them?
My general point is in part we are facilitating our opposition. So there really is no solution other than our departing and in the process allowing a new set of players to come into the game with a seriously different strategy.
QUOTE
But some of these smugglers are Al Qaeda. How do you make a political solution with them?
My general point is in part we are facilitating our opposition. So there really is no solution other than our departing and in the process allowing a new set of players to come into the game with a seriously different strategy.
My general point is in part we are facilitating our opposition. So there really is no solution other than our departing and in the process allowing a new set of players to come into the game with a seriously different strategy.
And you know this how??? More likely corrupt Iraqi government officials.
I see no AQ link to thjis money.
QUOTE(Ted @ May 14 2007, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE
But some of these smugglers are Al Qaeda. How do you make a political solution with them?
My general point is in part we are facilitating our opposition. So there really is no solution other than our departing and in the process allowing a new set of players to come into the game with a seriously different strategy.
My general point is in part we are facilitating our opposition. So there really is no solution other than our departing and in the process allowing a new set of players to come into the game with a seriously different strategy.
And you know this how??? More likely corrupt Iraqi government officials.
I see no AQ link to thjis money.
You are playing it very literally Ted. It's pretty slam dunk. You know that Al Qaeda is imbedded with the Sunnis and my link makes it very clear that alot of the petroleum pilfering is being carried out by Sunni insurgents.
Do I really have to connect the dots?
QUOTE(Ted @ May 15 2007, 01:20 AM)
I see no AQ link to thjis money.
Well, reality (and the USMC) disagrees with you Ted. According to a Marine Corps Intelligence report from 7 months ago:
The report notes that illicit oil trading is providing millions of dollars to al-Qaeda
http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/article.aspx?id=369
I have been told by a fellow co-worker, who served a tour "in" Iraq in the navy. While aboard ship he was witness to an an oil tanker being escorted out of an Iraqi port by U.S. military vessels. Once out into open waters the tanker lowered it's Iraqi flag and raised a Suadi flag. He (and all aboard) were told by the commanding officer that they never saw this, they don't know anything about it, and it never happened. Was the ship Iraqi or Saudi, I don't know, but if it sailed into any port in the world flying the Saudi flag, and offloaded the oil, who do you think is keeping the money?
So the answer to this would be yes, it the U.S. stopped letting the middle eastern side of the Bush family pilfer the oil that would be a major dent in the corruption.
Fairly simple, since the Saudis are a major financier of al-queda (who is being blamed for the insurgency) cutting off as much fund to the saudis as possible consequently cuts off funding to al-queda.
The "war" and "corruption" are unrelated issues. The "war" is over, now it is an occupation, corruption is a crime (assuming the Iraqi's have laws against this sort of thing) and needs to be dealt with through criminal prosecutions.
QUOTE(Dingo @ May 13 2007, 05:50 AM)
Do you think the US can seriously put a dent in the corruption surrounding oil in Iraq? If so how?
So the answer to this would be yes, it the U.S. stopped letting the middle eastern side of the Bush family pilfer the oil that would be a major dent in the corruption.
QUOTE
How do we bring the insurgency under control when apparently so much of the financing comes from the pilfering of oil and oil products
Fairly simple, since the Saudis are a major financier of al-queda (who is being blamed for the insurgency) cutting off as much fund to the saudis as possible consequently cuts off funding to al-queda.
QUOTE
Define winning the war in Iraq in a society that is indemically corrupt, particularly around its major resource, oil.
The "war" and "corruption" are unrelated issues. The "war" is over, now it is an occupation, corruption is a crime (assuming the Iraqi's have laws against this sort of thing) and needs to be dealt with through criminal prosecutions.
CD, would you remove the quotes around your question-answers? It makes it appear as if you were quoting answers from me. Believe me, I wouldn't touch those answers with a ten foot pole. 
This is a simplified version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.