Full Version: Stacy Snyder vs. Millersville University
I saw this on the news this morning. I have some thoughts about the affair, but I’ll keep my powder dry for a while.
Here are some links to what the case is about.
CNN Airs Stacy Snider’s Story
There is a video inside this link.
Progress of the Case Through the Courts
Millersville University
Millersville University’s Student Code of Conduct
Millersville University’s Position
After you have read the links above, I have the following questions for debate:
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
5. What are the ramifications for use of pages such as “My Space” are presented by this case?
Here are some links to what the case is about.
CNN Airs Stacy Snider’s Story
There is a video inside this link.
Progress of the Case Through the Courts
Millersville University
Millersville University’s Student Code of Conduct
Millersville University’s Position
After you have read the links above, I have the following questions for debate:
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
5. What are the ramifications for use of pages such as “My Space” are presented by this case?
First of all, thanks for all the links. I have to admit that I found them less than informative, but that's not your fault; both sides seem to be keeping quiet about this case. I'll do the best I can to respond based on what I can determine from the available facts.
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
Relevant sections of the school's code of conduct listing acts in violation:
I need a little more information. In the "Drunken Pirate" photograph, was she:
1. Drinking alcohol on the campus?
2. Drunk in public? (The fact that the photograph is called "Drunken Pirate" isn't evidence for this; she may have been no more drunk than she is a pirate. It may simply be a photograph of a woman of legal age having a drink in a silly outfit.)
3. In violation of any laws concerning alcohol? (Supplying it to minors, etc.)
As far as I can tell, there is no evidence for any of these things. I may be wrong, but I would need more information.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I have no real opinion. I would like this to be settled between Snyder and the University, without the courts, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
If there is no good evidence that Snyder was in violation of the code, then Snyder. If there is such good evidence, then the University.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
Same as above.
5. What are the ramifications for use of pages such as “My Space” are presented by this case?
Here's the real heart of this issue, which would otherwise be a matter of concern only to the persons involved.
There was a story here in the Chattanooga area not too long ago about several girls who were suspended from school (I forget if it was middle school or high school) because their web pages had threats against other students. I don't have the exact nature of these threats, but I tend to think that it was something like youngsters yelling "I'm gonna kill her!" than "Here is my detailed plan for killing my enemies." The former isn't nice, and may require someone to talk seriously to the student, but it's not unusual among young people. The latter may be a very serious threat. In any case, those who monitor the Internet should use some reasonable judgement in determining what is acceptable behavior and what is in violation of school or workplace rules. Maybe somebody at the University thought it was in questionable taste for somebody who wants to be a teacher to be having an alcoholic drink and calling herself a "Drunken Pirate," but without more evidence to the contrary I don't see anything here which is in violation of their code.
The second lesson to be learned is that everything you put on the Internet is public. It can come back back to haunt you at any time, fairly or unfairly. Use some caution.
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
Relevant sections of the school's code of conduct listing acts in violation:
QUOTE
Public drunkenness.
. . .
Conduct involving the use, possession or distribution of alcoholic beverages on campus or in violation of the law off campus.
. . .
Conduct involving the use, possession or distribution of alcoholic beverages on campus or in violation of the law off campus.
I need a little more information. In the "Drunken Pirate" photograph, was she:
1. Drinking alcohol on the campus?
2. Drunk in public? (The fact that the photograph is called "Drunken Pirate" isn't evidence for this; she may have been no more drunk than she is a pirate. It may simply be a photograph of a woman of legal age having a drink in a silly outfit.)
3. In violation of any laws concerning alcohol? (Supplying it to minors, etc.)
As far as I can tell, there is no evidence for any of these things. I may be wrong, but I would need more information.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I have no real opinion. I would like this to be settled between Snyder and the University, without the courts, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
If there is no good evidence that Snyder was in violation of the code, then Snyder. If there is such good evidence, then the University.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
Same as above.
5. What are the ramifications for use of pages such as “My Space” are presented by this case?
Here's the real heart of this issue, which would otherwise be a matter of concern only to the persons involved.
There was a story here in the Chattanooga area not too long ago about several girls who were suspended from school (I forget if it was middle school or high school) because their web pages had threats against other students. I don't have the exact nature of these threats, but I tend to think that it was something like youngsters yelling "I'm gonna kill her!" than "Here is my detailed plan for killing my enemies." The former isn't nice, and may require someone to talk seriously to the student, but it's not unusual among young people. The latter may be a very serious threat. In any case, those who monitor the Internet should use some reasonable judgement in determining what is acceptable behavior and what is in violation of school or workplace rules. Maybe somebody at the University thought it was in questionable taste for somebody who wants to be a teacher to be having an alcoholic drink and calling herself a "Drunken Pirate," but without more evidence to the contrary I don't see anything here which is in violation of their code.
The second lesson to be learned is that everything you put on the Internet is public. It can come back back to haunt you at any time, fairly or unfairly. Use some caution.
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ May 18 2007, 10:42 PM) 
First of all, thanks for all the links. I have to admit that I found them less than informative, but that's not your fault; both sides seem to be keeping quiet about this case. I'll do the best I can to respond based on what I can determine from the available facts.
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
Relevant sections of the school's code of conduct listing acts in violation:
I need a little more information. In the "Drunken Pirate" photograph, was she:
1. Drinking alcohol on the campus?
2. Drunk in public? (The fact that the photograph is called "Drunken Pirate" isn't evidence for this; she may have been no more drunk than she is a pirate. It may simply be a photograph of a woman of legal age having a drink in a silly outfit.)
3. In violation of any laws concerning alcohol? (Supplying it to minors, etc.)
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
Relevant sections of the school's code of conduct listing acts in violation:
QUOTE
Public drunkenness.
. . .
Conduct involving the use, possession or distribution of alcoholic beverages on campus or in violation of the law off campus.
. . .
Conduct involving the use, possession or distribution of alcoholic beverages on campus or in violation of the law off campus.
I need a little more information. In the "Drunken Pirate" photograph, was she:
1. Drinking alcohol on the campus?
2. Drunk in public? (The fact that the photograph is called "Drunken Pirate" isn't evidence for this; she may have been no more drunk than she is a pirate. It may simply be a photograph of a woman of legal age having a drink in a silly outfit.)
3. In violation of any laws concerning alcohol? (Supplying it to minors, etc.)
Victoria, as far as I have been abe to determine, she hasn't been accused of doing any of the three things you list. It seems to have been the words "Drunken Pirate" on the Halloween hat that got her into this mess. I don't think anyone, except possibly Ms. Snyder, knows what was in the "Goodbar" cup. She says she was not drunk, but considering that this happened in 2005, she may not remember whether it was Pepsi or Coke or ...
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
Edited to add:
QUOTE(VS)
I have no real opinion. I would like this to be settled between Snyder and the University, without the courts, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.
I think this will be settled out of court. Why? I think Millersville has more on the table to lose. Ms. Snyder has lost everything, so there's little else for her to risk. I'm going to do a dangerous thing here and guess that the university blinks.
Quite frankly this place sounds more like Miller[ville]'s Cave than Millersville University.
Thanks for the information. 
This is pretty much what I expected. With that in mind, I would say that the University is making a very big mountain out of a very small molehill indeed. They seem to be acting foolishly harsh over a very petty incident. An apology would seem to be in order. If this case comes to court, I would expect Snyder to win easily.
This really disturbs me. Is everything that we do on the computer have to be squeaky clean from now on? I've written some amateur fiction which contains violent and sexually explicit material, and I have posted it on certain forums which welcome such contributions. On one forum, as a joke, I've used an image from the ersatz trailer for the imaginary exploitation film Werewolf Women of the SS (as seen in Grindhouse) as my avatar. (See link below for the image.) Because this seems to depict "me" as a woman singing in a Nazi cabaret, should I now worry about my job? Am I required to seek treatment for mental health because I have written a horror story set in a sex club? I worry.
Link
This is pretty much what I expected. With that in mind, I would say that the University is making a very big mountain out of a very small molehill indeed. They seem to be acting foolishly harsh over a very petty incident. An apology would seem to be in order. If this case comes to court, I would expect Snyder to win easily.
This really disturbs me. Is everything that we do on the computer have to be squeaky clean from now on? I've written some amateur fiction which contains violent and sexually explicit material, and I have posted it on certain forums which welcome such contributions. On one forum, as a joke, I've used an image from the ersatz trailer for the imaginary exploitation film Werewolf Women of the SS (as seen in Grindhouse) as my avatar. (See link below for the image.) Because this seems to depict "me" as a woman singing in a Nazi cabaret, should I now worry about my job? Am I required to seek treatment for mental health because I have written a horror story set in a sex club? I worry.
Link
Now that this thread has a couple of posts, I’m going to tell you what I really think about this situation. As many of you have probably picked up over the past 2 + years, I am not a big fan of “authority,” especially when I think that authority has been misused in a blatant manner. It seems to me that Millersville is not only an authoritarian university (not a good mix for opening inquiring young minds) but a reactionary, knee-jerk operation akin to Bob Jones or Liberty University. I think I’ve sensed a trend in this country over the past twenty-five years. The permissiveness of the 60s has been replaced by the god of punishment, that is, punish anyone and everyone for whatever reason you can drum up to punish them. Have we become a sadistic society. Probably not, but I think we are bordering on it. Remember the rants at this week’s 2nd Republican Debate (which Faux News Conveniently labeled the First in the South) about “enhanced interrogation techniques," whatever in hell that’s supposed to mean. Actually, I don't think it takes much effort to decode what was being said.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-...home-commentary
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
Not specifically, unless one wants to mold some “catchall” clause to include everything except possibly breathing air.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I’ve already said I think the University will blink, I stand by that prediction. It's time to get the egg off the face.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
I’m not totally sure how it would go, but I think Snyder would win. Such cases are unpredictable. Either side could appeal. It could be tied up in the Federal courts for years. I just hope the ACLU or some other organization will take up Snyder's cause. In fact, if I had the means to do it, I would start a "Stacy Snyder Legal Fund" to help finance her case.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
This is easier to answer. I think Snyder should win.
Thanks to “The Smoking Gun,” we have a useful article on this situation.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...072pirate1.html
TSG also provided a link to the original complaint filed by Snyder’s attorney. The complaint lists several officials at the university as “adult individuals.” Using the word “adult” to describe the Millersville officials taxes the term to its extreme limits.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...072pirate2.html
5. What are the ramifications for use of pages such as “My Space” are presented by this case?
To what the always wise VictoriaSilverwolf wrote, I would just add, be careful, very careful. There’s some backwards specimen (or specimins) out there with his or her head stuck where it doesn’t belong just waiting for an excuse to punish you.
BTW: Sorry for the obvious
, sarcasm and ranting a little. Does it surprise you that one of the oldest members here (not the oldest since Nemo is back) is defending this young woman? I don’t have much patience for people who hurt animals, children or single moms, especially on such spurious grounds by such cowardly administrative clowns.
QUOTE(L.A. Times Editorial)
Unlike Hunter and Tancredo, Giuliani and Romney took pains to insist that they didn't favor torture, just … you know, "enhanced interrogation." But water-boarding, which neither would disavow, is unquestionably a form of torture. It involves taking a bound, gagged and blindfolded prisoner and pouring water over him or holding him underwater to induce an unbearable sensation of drowning. It was used in the Spanish Inquisition and by Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge — fellas who make Jack Bauer look like a softie.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-...home-commentary
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
Not specifically, unless one wants to mold some “catchall” clause to include everything except possibly breathing air.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I’ve already said I think the University will blink, I stand by that prediction. It's time to get the egg off the face.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
I’m not totally sure how it would go, but I think Snyder would win. Such cases are unpredictable. Either side could appeal. It could be tied up in the Federal courts for years. I just hope the ACLU or some other organization will take up Snyder's cause. In fact, if I had the means to do it, I would start a "Stacy Snyder Legal Fund" to help finance her case.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
This is easier to answer. I think Snyder should win.
Thanks to “The Smoking Gun,” we have a useful article on this situation.
QUOTE
Snyder's lawyer, Mark Voigt, told TSG that his client now works as a nanny. He added that school officials should actually be "celebrating" Snyder, a mother of two young children who returned to school to get a teaching degree
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...072pirate1.html
TSG also provided a link to the original complaint filed by Snyder’s attorney. The complaint lists several officials at the university as “adult individuals.” Using the word “adult” to describe the Millersville officials taxes the term to its extreme limits.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...072pirate2.html
5. What are the ramifications for use of pages such as “My Space” are presented by this case?
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ May 18 2007, 10:42 PM)
The second lesson to be learned is that everything you put on the Internet is public. It can come back back to haunt you at any time, fairly or unfairly. Use some caution.
To what the always wise VictoriaSilverwolf wrote, I would just add, be careful, very careful. There’s some backwards specimen (or specimins) out there with his or her head stuck where it doesn’t belong just waiting for an excuse to punish you.
BTW: Sorry for the obvious
, sarcasm and ranting a little. Does it surprise you that one of the oldest members here (not the oldest since Nemo is back) is defending this young woman? I don’t have much patience for people who hurt animals, children or single moms, especially on such spurious grounds by such cowardly administrative clowns.
God lord BoF, you went off topic on your own thread to take pot shots at some of the Republican candidates and Fox News when it had absolutely nothing to do with any of your debate questions. 
As for what happened to Ms. Snyder, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and if this does progress though the courts I think we will see her winning.
As for what happened to Ms. Snyder, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and if this does progress though the courts I think we will see her winning.
QUOTE(Sleeper @ May 19 2007, 05:24 PM)
God lord BoF, you went off topic on your own thread to take pot shots at some of the Republican candidates and Fox News when it had absolutely nothing to do with any of your debate questions.
As for what happened to Ms. Snyder, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and if this does progress though the courts I think we will see her winning.
As for what happened to Ms. Snyder, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and if this does progress though the courts I think we will see her winning.
No Sleeper, this goes to what I see as the underlying force behind the treatment of Stacy Snyder, that is, a conscious or unconscious trend in this society to look for reasons to punish people. The bit about "enhanded interrogation techniques" was an example. To be fair, I think John McCain's answer showed a lot of grit. If anyone understands torture it has to be McCain.
The rest of the post answers the questions. Sorry, but the unfairness to this single mom, who has worked so hard for so many years to get a teaching certificate, floors me. You, of all people, on this board should understand the emotional rage I am feeling about this issue.
I don't know how Pennsylvania law is set up to certify teachers. Perhaps Millersville, if they have a cooperative program with another University, could arrange for the other University, one that doesn't defy the very meaning of such an institution, to confer the credentials on Ms. Snyder. I doubt, though, that Millersville officials understand compromise, just raw power. I think negative public opinion, a good portion of yoke on their faces and a lot to lose in a law suit will cause Millersville to wilt.
I can't do much to help, but I plan to call the Millersville Office of Student Affairs on Monday and give them an ample portion of my mind.
I don't believe Stacy Snyder deserves any kind of punishment what so ever. Now that being said, I do believe we need to continue those who do commit crimes against other people.
I just don't see(in the opinion piece you linked) how water-boarding has anything to do with Stacy Snyder's situation. That would be like me saying that the liberal secular progressive movement in the U.S. eventually led to the Virginia Tech shootings because we have pushed religion completely out of our schools. Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it.
I just don't see(in the opinion piece you linked) how water-boarding has anything to do with Stacy Snyder's situation. That would be like me saying that the liberal secular progressive movement in the U.S. eventually led to the Virginia Tech shootings because we have pushed religion completely out of our schools. Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it.
I have to ask- did the young lady in question pay for this degree? If she completed the academic requirements, and they didn't give her the degree based on anything else, and she didn't go there for free from a university scholarship that is funded by the university itself- then, as far as I am concerned, they have commited fraud, stolen property from her, and she needs to be made whole, and the everyone in the university that made this decision should be arrested and jailed for grand theft.
We need to protect her property rights, ASAP.
It is not right for anyone to deny someone a good bought and paid for in good faith.
We need to protect her property rights, ASAP.
It is not right for anyone to deny someone a good bought and paid for in good faith.
QUOTE(Sleeper @ May 19 2007, 05:49 PM)
I don't believe Stacy Snyder deserves any kind of punishment what so ever. Now that being said, I do believe we need to continue those who do commit crimes against other people.
I just don't see(in the opinion piece you linked) how water-boarding has anything to do with Stacy Snyder's situation. That would be like me saying that the liberal secular progressive movement in the U.S. eventually led to the Virginia Tech shootings because we have pushed religion completely out of our schools. Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it.
I just don't see(in the opinion piece you linked) how water-boarding has anything to do with Stacy Snyder's situation. That would be like me saying that the liberal secular progressive movement in the U.S. eventually led to the Virginia Tech shootings because we have pushed religion completely out of our schools. Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it.
We agree completely on the first sentence Sleeper.
On the second, I am talking about a trend I've seen for a long time. Twenty-five years ago Texas was controlled by Democrats. We got into this thing where politicians were competing to see who could be the meanest, toughest law and order man on the block - who could slam the jail door the hardest. This trend has continued.
I taught in Fort Worth for twenty-six years, Texas is a conservative state. Yet I never heard of any such nonsense coming from any legitimate University - not state universities, not religously owned schools like TCU, SMU or Baylor.
I have been talking about what I see as root causes, rather than immediate causes. Milllersville is in a conservative part of Pennsylvania. I did a bike ride through there in 1983. It's Amish country. I have all the respect in the world for anyone who chooses to live the simplicity of the Amish lifestyle. I don't know if Millersville bowed to Amish pressure or some other sort of community pressure, but it probably had something to do with it. Does anyone think this would have happened at the Academy - you know - the thing Benjamin Franklin founded that became the University of Pennsylvania?
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ May 19 2007, 06:13 PM)
I have to ask- did the young lady in question pay for this degree? If she completed the academic requirements, and they didn't give her the degree based on anything else, and she didn't go there for free from a university scholarship that is funded by the university itself- then, as far as I am concerned, they have commited fraud, stolen property from her, and she needs to be made whole, and the everyone in the university that made this decision should be arrested and jailed for grand theft.
We need to protect her property rights, ASAP.
It is not right for anyone to deny someone a good bought and paid for in good faith.
We need to protect her property rights, ASAP.
It is not right for anyone to deny someone a good bought and paid for in good faith.
Strike that. It appears the university received federal funds.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...072pirate2.html
This is one of those links I can't cut and paste from, but on page 1, item No 2 of the complaint we find these words:
QUOTE(Stacy Snyder's Complaint)
Defendant [Millersville] was a recepiennt of federal financial assistance.
CR I will attempt to find out how Ms. Snyder paid for her education.
Um, if she has to repay the loan- she still should be getting property.
If I go to a car lot, and get a loan, let's say from a special program to get drag racers to buy a Prius, so, I get the car, and they steal it away right before it is paid off because I have a picture of me and a mustang?
You saw the pic- my Gawd bof- it is criminal what they are doing to her- they deserve to go to jail, seriously go to jail. Perhaps horse whipping is even in order. I am not kidding. That is so awful- you have a single mom, goes to school to improve herself, does all the academic requirements, and they pull the rug out from under her for that pic?
I was expecting a drunken orgy! I would have PAID for the drunken orgy!
If I go to a car lot, and get a loan, let's say from a special program to get drag racers to buy a Prius, so, I get the car, and they steal it away right before it is paid off because I have a picture of me and a mustang?
You saw the pic- my Gawd bof- it is criminal what they are doing to her- they deserve to go to jail, seriously go to jail. Perhaps horse whipping is even in order. I am not kidding. That is so awful- you have a single mom, goes to school to improve herself, does all the academic requirements, and they pull the rug out from under her for that pic?
I was expecting a drunken orgy! I would have PAID for the drunken orgy!
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ May 19 2007, 06:59 PM)
Um, if she has to repay the loan- she still should be getting property.
If I go to a car lot, and get a loan, let's say from a special program to get drag racers to buy a Prius, so, I get the car, and they steal it away right before it is paid off because I have a picture of me and a mustang?
You saw the pic- my Gawd bof- it is criminal what they are doing to her- they deserve to go to jail, seriously go to jail. Perhaps horse whipping is even in order. I am not kidding. That is so awful- you have a single mom, goes to school to improve herself, does all the academic requirements, and they pull the rug out from under her for that pic?
I was expecting a drunken orgy! I would have PAID for the drunken orgy!
If I go to a car lot, and get a loan, let's say from a special program to get drag racers to buy a Prius, so, I get the car, and they steal it away right before it is paid off because I have a picture of me and a mustang?
You saw the pic- my Gawd bof- it is criminal what they are doing to her- they deserve to go to jail, seriously go to jail. Perhaps horse whipping is even in order. I am not kidding. That is so awful- you have a single mom, goes to school to improve herself, does all the academic requirements, and they pull the rug out from under her for that pic?
I was expecting a drunken orgy! I would have PAID for the drunken orgy!
Humor smoothes over all great divides, even one as wide as between Sleeper and me.
I find it amusing that Millersville's Dean of the Education, the lead defendant in the complaint, is named Jane Bray. How fitting for someone acting like
There's a lot going on here. No offense BoF but I think you're not likely to find anyone who agrees with the school making this not much of a debate. However, there is a debate to be had. I mean how do we even know that she's drunk? What's in the cup? Also - frankly - I'm a little ticked off that she's fully clothed! Uh, I mean - She's not even inappropriately dressed which shows excellent moral character!
Should you be punished for your online life?
If Stacy Snyder never posts that picture the event still happened, it just doesn't exist online. If it doesn't exist online then the school gives her her degree. So should Stacey be punished for posting her picture? What if someone else posted that picture? Then should Stacey have been punished? This all hinges on a posted picture. Does our online life fairly represent our physical lives?
Should you be punished for your online life?
If Stacy Snyder never posts that picture the event still happened, it just doesn't exist online. If it doesn't exist online then the school gives her her degree. So should Stacey be punished for posting her picture? What if someone else posted that picture? Then should Stacey have been punished? This all hinges on a posted picture. Does our online life fairly represent our physical lives?
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ May 19 2007, 07:30 PM)
There's a lot going on here.
Then I guess we need to sort it out. Wanna help?
QUOTE
No offense BoF but I think you're not likely to find anyone who agrees with the school making this not much of a debate. However, there is a debate to be had. I mean how do we even know that she's drunk? What's in the cup?
We don't know what was in the cup and it isn't important, but what happens to the individual in this society is of supreme importance. Here's someone who has been run over by the collective wheels of part of society - Millersville University. Avoiding this issue is like saying she's so much roadkill - just leave her there and let the buzzards pick the carcass.
QUOTE
Also - frankly - I'm a little ticked off that she's fully clothed! Uh, I mean - She's not even inappropriately dressed which shows excellent moral character!
Oh, I am too! Full nudity would certainly enhance her "standing" in Federal Court. Hey judge, judge, try to focus.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I'm even more convinced that this will be settled out of court with Ms. Snyder getting her credentils.
I combined a little invesitgative work with protest and called Millersville. I had a very nice conversation with a person I will not identify by name or gender - an unidentified source - as someone in NT's profession might say. The person kind of laughed and said they were getting a "ton of calls."
The longer the egg is on the faced, the harder it will be to get it off.
I'm even more convinced that this will be settled out of court with Ms. Snyder getting her credentils.
I combined a little invesitgative work with protest and called Millersville. I had a very nice conversation with a person I will not identify by name or gender - an unidentified source - as someone in NT's profession might say.
The person kind of laughed and said they were getting a "ton of calls."The longer the egg is on the faced, the harder it will be to get it off.
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?
Not from the information that was made available.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I guess it depends on whether Millersville has some money to throw at this or not. I believe it is something that should be settled out of court.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
I would hope that Snyder would win.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
It has already been brought up that Snyder bought and paid for an education there. May I hasten to add that she EARNED it as well.
I've never heard of Millersville University before--is this the way they want to be thought of by the rest of the country? As a bunch of stuffy fuddy-duddies ready to renege on their part in Synder's education based on some humorous Internet video that one of their students, an otherwise responsible and serious-minded person, made out of a sense of fun?
Methinks their shorts are too tight...
Not from the information that was made available.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I guess it depends on whether Millersville has some money to throw at this or not. I believe it is something that should be settled out of court.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
I would hope that Snyder would win.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
It has already been brought up that Snyder bought and paid for an education there. May I hasten to add that she EARNED it as well.
I've never heard of Millersville University before--is this the way they want to be thought of by the rest of the country? As a bunch of stuffy fuddy-duddies ready to renege on their part in Synder's education based on some humorous Internet video that one of their students, an otherwise responsible and serious-minded person, made out of a sense of fun?
Methinks their shorts are too tight...
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?[
Absolutely not. From my own experience as a student at Millersville, I believe they make up the code of student conduct as they go and apply it accordingly.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I hope it goes far enough to get justice for Stacy, for me and for so many other people who are sure to come forward now that Stacy went public with her situation. I too was denied my degree by Millersville and I believe every word of what I have read in the press regarding Millersville's actions towards Stacy.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
I too would hope that Snyder would win. I cannot imagine that any court could side with the University given the situation.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
It has already been brought up that Snyder bought and paid for an education there. May I hasten to add that she EARNED it as well. Millersville cannot change the rules according to whether someone there approves of a student personally. One of the many basic tenets they teach in the School of Education at Millersville is that students are a diverse population and that we have to allow students to think for themselves. However, diversity is what is sorely lacking at Millersville -- lacking because there are few minority students and professors there and because no one is allowed to question authority or take seriously some of the things they teach, like making teaching and learning fun, exciting and appealing.
I am a non-traditional student, age 51. I went to Millersville to pursue my post-baccalaureate certification in elementary education and M.Ed. I have only two classes to go to complete the M.Ed. but was not allowed to student teach or to get my M.Ed., which depends on being a certified teacher. I was told I do not have the right "disposition" to be a teacher, yet nothing was ever specified as to what was lacking in my disposition. Two "experts" chosen by Millersville thought I would made an excellent teacher, so they changed the reason for my not being allowed to student teach to "I can't teach reading," even though I had excellent grades and Praxis scores at Millersville. I too was denied due process and was basically told that the two years and thousands of dollars I spent getting my education were a waste of time, money and energy.
I wish Stacy all the luck in the world.
Absolutely not. From my own experience as a student at Millersville, I believe they make up the code of student conduct as they go and apply it accordingly.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I hope it goes far enough to get justice for Stacy, for me and for so many other people who are sure to come forward now that Stacy went public with her situation. I too was denied my degree by Millersville and I believe every word of what I have read in the press regarding Millersville's actions towards Stacy.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
I too would hope that Snyder would win. I cannot imagine that any court could side with the University given the situation.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
It has already been brought up that Snyder bought and paid for an education there. May I hasten to add that she EARNED it as well. Millersville cannot change the rules according to whether someone there approves of a student personally. One of the many basic tenets they teach in the School of Education at Millersville is that students are a diverse population and that we have to allow students to think for themselves. However, diversity is what is sorely lacking at Millersville -- lacking because there are few minority students and professors there and because no one is allowed to question authority or take seriously some of the things they teach, like making teaching and learning fun, exciting and appealing.
I am a non-traditional student, age 51. I went to Millersville to pursue my post-baccalaureate certification in elementary education and M.Ed. I have only two classes to go to complete the M.Ed. but was not allowed to student teach or to get my M.Ed., which depends on being a certified teacher. I was told I do not have the right "disposition" to be a teacher, yet nothing was ever specified as to what was lacking in my disposition. Two "experts" chosen by Millersville thought I would made an excellent teacher, so they changed the reason for my not being allowed to student teach to "I can't teach reading," even though I had excellent grades and Praxis scores at Millersville. I too was denied due process and was basically told that the two years and thousands of dollars I spent getting my education were a waste of time, money and energy.
I wish Stacy all the luck in the world.
QUOTE(mltabarez @ May 23 2007, 08:02 PM)
1. Do you think Stacy Snyder violated Millersville’s code of student conduct?[
Absolutely not. From my own experience as a student at Millersville, I believe they make up the code of student conduct as they go and apply it accordingly.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I hope it goes far enough to get justice for Stacy, for me and for so many other people who are sure to come forward now that Stacy went public with her situation. I too was denied my degree by Millersville and I believe every word of what I have read in the press regarding Millersville's actions towards Stacy.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
I too would hope that Snyder would win. I cannot imagine that any court could side with the University given the situation.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
It has already been brought up that Snyder bought and paid for an education there. May I hasten to add that she EARNED it as well. Millersville cannot change the rules according to whether someone there approves of a student personally. One of the many basic tenets they teach in the School of Education at Millersville is that students are a diverse population and that we have to allow students to think for themselves. However, diversity is what is sorely lacking at Millersville -- lacking because there are few minority students and professors there and because no one is allowed to question authority or take seriously some of the things they teach, like making teaching and learning fun, exciting and appealing.
I am a non-traditional student, age 51. I went to Millersville to pursue my post-baccalaureate certification in elementary education and M.Ed. I have only two classes to go to complete the M.Ed. but was not allowed to student teach or to get my M.Ed., which depends on being a certified teacher. I was told I do not have the right "disposition" to be a teacher, yet nothing was ever specified as to what was lacking in my disposition. Two "experts" chosen by Millersville thought I would made an excellent teacher, so they changed the reason for my not being allowed to student teach to "I can't teach reading," even though I had excellent grades and Praxis scores at Millersville. I too was denied due process and was basically told that the two years and thousands of dollars I spent getting my education were a waste of time, money and energy.
I wish Stacy all the luck in the world.
Absolutely not. From my own experience as a student at Millersville, I believe they make up the code of student conduct as they go and apply it accordingly.
2. Do you think this case will continue through the courts or will there be an out of court settlement before it gets that far?
I hope it goes far enough to get justice for Stacy, for me and for so many other people who are sure to come forward now that Stacy went public with her situation. I too was denied my degree by Millersville and I believe every word of what I have read in the press regarding Millersville's actions towards Stacy.
3. If it gets to court, who do you think will win, Snyder or the University?
I too would hope that Snyder would win. I cannot imagine that any court could side with the University given the situation.
4. Who do you think should win and why? Please note, will and should are different questions.
It has already been brought up that Snyder bought and paid for an education there. May I hasten to add that she EARNED it as well. Millersville cannot change the rules according to whether someone there approves of a student personally. One of the many basic tenets they teach in the School of Education at Millersville is that students are a diverse population and that we have to allow students to think for themselves. However, diversity is what is sorely lacking at Millersville -- lacking because there are few minority students and professors there and because no one is allowed to question authority or take seriously some of the things they teach, like making teaching and learning fun, exciting and appealing.
I am a non-traditional student, age 51. I went to Millersville to pursue my post-baccalaureate certification in elementary education and M.Ed. I have only two classes to go to complete the M.Ed. but was not allowed to student teach or to get my M.Ed., which depends on being a certified teacher. I was told I do not have the right "disposition" to be a teacher, yet nothing was ever specified as to what was lacking in my disposition. Two "experts" chosen by Millersville thought I would made an excellent teacher, so they changed the reason for my not being allowed to student teach to "I can't teach reading," even though I had excellent grades and Praxis scores at Millersville. I too was denied due process and was basically told that the two years and thousands of dollars I spent getting my education were a waste of time, money and energy.
I wish Stacy all the luck in the world.
It's good to have a first hand report on this situation. This sounds like the worst sort of authoritrian institution, that is, the "it is what it is because I said it is" mentality.
In part my new signature about authority is in response to this situation.It sounds like these people string students along until they get all the money they can out of them and then jerk the rug out from under them.
QUOTE(Steve Miller Band)
Go on take the money and run.
Is it not odd, that the Halloween party took place in October, 2005 yet Ms. Snyder was allowed to finish the 2005 fall semester and apparently the whole spring 2006 semester?
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...072pirate2.html
See page 5, item 24 of complaint.
Perhaps Millersville should refund all of Ms. Snyder's money as part of a settlement.
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