AuthorMusician
Jul 12 2007, 11:50 AM
This caught my eye:
Upside down flag displayApparently, it catches a lot of eyes. A similar incident happened during a summer festival in Colorado Springs a few weeks ago. Someone raised the US flag upside down on top of an office building. Someone else climbed up there and put it rightside up.
Questions:
How effective is this form of protest?Is it just Colorado or is this a trend elsewhere?What are your reactions to seeing a flag flown upside down?
Julian
Jul 12 2007, 12:38 PM
How effective is this form of protest?
Is it just Colorado or is this a trend elsewhere?
I'd say thee two are linked. If it's a commonly-understood convention that the stars & stripes are flown upside-down is a signal of protest against the USA (or against whoever for other flags), as opposed to a signal of distress* or a signal that the person who rigged the flag doesn't know how to do it correctly, then it might be quite effective.
The fact that you've asked the second question at all indicates that there is not (yet) such a convention, and so I'd have to say that it isn't an effective form of protest. If someone has to ask you why you've flown your flag the wrong way up, then they didn't get whatever message you were trying to send.
Burning a flag is a widely held convention - everybody knows what it means when they burn a flag; it means they strongly disagree with something the country represented by that flag is doing. Flying it upside-down does not have any such strongly held, or widely-understood, meaning.
* Flying the Union Jack upside-down was, in the days before radio, held to be a distress signal. Less of a "Save Our Souls" type of thing, but more "We've been taken over by covert hostiles and this is the only way we've got to let you know we are not in control". The idea being that at first glance, someone unfamiliar with the flag wouldn't really notice, but someone who is used to seeing it would. It was never a formalised practice, however.
What are your reactions to seeing a flag flown upside down?
Mainly, my first thought would be "who taught that idiot how to fly a flag?"
ConservPat
Jul 12 2007, 04:09 PM
QUOTE
How effective is this form of protest?
Like most protests, not very. The country is already overwhelmingly against the war, everyone sans the tenets at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. are perfectly aware of that; so I wonder. If 70% of the country wants our troops home, what good will one upside-down flag do? Oh, and to make things better, this woman appears [like most Americans] to be a Constitutional novice, as she cites the First Amendment in defending herself against the community she is voluntarily a part of. As if we don't all already know, the first Amendment begins with: "Congress shall make no law..." Well, Congress hasn't made a law forcing the community she
voluntarily joined to fine her, they are a private organization, with private rules. Her protest will end as soon as it becomes monetarily disadvantageous to continue it.
QUOTE
What are your reactions to seeing a flag flown upside down?
How profound.
CP
drewyorktimes
Jul 12 2007, 05:29 PM
I just want to say that insidious little personal gestures like this are an age old American tradition, now
How effective is this form of protest? All it really allows is the individual a way to place himself on a political spectrum, with smug satisfaction.
But that's no small feat, and consequently, upside down flags, bumper stickers and 'my country right or wrong' buttons are the political symbolic currency of our nation. Back in the ant heap of depression-era fascism (we just love to compare our country to Hitler's) you couldn't even so separate yourself from wolf-pack so to speak. Unfortunately, we live in an age where even the 'culture' imagines itself a counter-culture (witness terms like 'Reagan Revolution' and
The Persecution of Christians in America) so maybe it's time we downplayed our political leanings as a matter of personal style. We wear our political differences like a badge of distinction, in no small part because our neighbors often scorn or even fine us when we do.
Is it just Colorado or is this a trend elsewhere?More common are the Peace-Sign in the Blue Field Flags, I'd say.
Victoria Silverwolf
Jul 13 2007, 04:36 AM
How effective is this form of protest?
Depends what you mean. Effect on national policy? Probably none. Effect on other members of the community? Well, it got their attention. Effect on one's own self? Well, it probably makes us all feel a little better to express ourselves.
Over all, not a big deal.
Is it just Colorado or is this a trend elsewhere?
I have heard of this sort of thing being used as a form of protest on rare occasions in the past. Not limited to Colorado, I'm sure, but not a "trend" anywhere. If anything, I'd say that bumper stickers are a "trend."
What are your reactions to seeing a flag flown upside down?
I'd think "Somebody is protesting something, but I don't know what it is." That's the problem with this kind of symbolic gesture; it's too vague. A sign saying "US Out of Iraq" has a clear message; the upside-down flag might mean almost anything.
As to the side issue as to whether this is protected speech or not, that depends on the exact contract that this woman signed with the community organization. Does it say "No political messages of any kind?" Then she might have to pay the fine. Does it say "No offensive messages?" Then it's more ambiguous.
Paladin Elspeth
Jul 13 2007, 06:18 AM
How effective is this form of protest?
I don't know--how effective is any kind of protest these days? What is it going to take for this government to stand up and take notice that THE COUNTRY IS AGAINST THE WAR?
(As an aside, CNN was airing a story on Anderson Cooper last night about a military serviceman who is suing the military for calling him for a 5th tour of combat duty in this war. He has previously served in Afghanistan and Iraq. What are the leaders doing--is their intention to keep sending the same troops in until they're dead or hopelessly maimed? Enough is enough, people!)
The flag protest got somebody's attention anyway.
Is it just Colorado or is this a trend elsewhere?
Remember when the immigrants held massive demonstrations not too long ago in about 5 major U.S. cities? There were flags flown upside down then. Lou Dobbs made a remark about it--"I don't like that"--without bothering to tell the viewers what it symbolized.
What are your reactions to seeing a flag flown upside down?
It makes me think somebody's really ticked off about something that has to do with the government and/or its policies. The first time I saw a U.S. flag flown upside down was in the T.V. miniseries "Amerika" a few years ago. It was about an America invaded and occupied by the Russians, I believe, and a resurgency to take America back.
I prefer people flying the flag upside down to burning it or otherwise desecrating it. I believe in freedom of speech.
AuthorMusician
Jul 13 2007, 08:06 AM
How effective is this form of protest?
An ineffective protest is one that is easily dismissed. On the surface, oh big deal, someone made a mistake or is saying something but who knows what. Underneath, it prompts people to want the flag put right. What other protest would get a guy climbing a long fire escape ladder to do this or a covenant enforcer to lay the fine? I can think of a few, but they all involve a more active situation that isn't as poignant, mundane actually -- shouting, waving arms, carrying sloppy signage.
Flying the flag upside down involves no property destruction.
This is not an insulting gesture, such as stomping on the flag.
It garners immediate attention -- something's wrong here.
Aesthetically, the flag is the same. It's in a different configuration but has the same design, shape, material and colors.
It's quiet and just there, passively following the wind.
I'll give it credit for being more effective than shouting in someone's face. That leads to a reactionary defensive posture, while this has no real threat to it but does prompt reaction.
Is it just Colorado or is this a trend elsewhere?
I'd like to know. Two incidents following this close together might mean a trend, might not. A homeowner west of here flies two oversized flags, one on each corner of the deck facing US 24, every day without fail. If those go upside down, I would say this is a trend.
What are your reactions to seeing a flag flown upside down?
I remember first seeing this during the Vietnam era in dorm rooms of the politically active. Immediate reaction was that it means the country has its head where the sun don't shine, but no feelings of discomfort. I was used to juxtapositions on just about everything back then. I had no urge to set the flag right, but then my political attitude was passive. It still is pretty much, an observer more than a participant.
Now there's a deeper thing going on, like walking through the woods and coming upon a tree with its roots up in the air, its branches beneath the ground. The juxtaposition is obviously wrong. I'd take a photo of that.
The photo given in the article shows the flag upside down in the background. The image stays in my mind, and my mind extrapolates through imagination all the time, so I see an entire neighborhood with flags flown upside down, an honor guard with the flag upside down, people waving little upside down flags in an enthusiastic way as an empty limo rolls backwards down the parade route, the band marching on its hands and playing with its toes.
One hundred eighty degrees out of phase. Birds swim and fish fly, but yes, they do some of them. But all of them? The robin's pecking the bottom of the lake, the walleye's catching bugs way up in the sky. The flag's flying upside down. The politicians speak pig latin.
Well, I've known that about politicians all along. Can't trust 'em, gotta interpret real motivations. So I should juxtapose that too. Politicians start to speak the truth?
TruthMarch
Jul 20 2007, 09:53 PM
Personally I think it's kind of immature and rude, but sometimes people find there's no better way to make some protest statement. But to me, it's wrong because it takes aim at a nation itself and not the blunderers in charge of that nation. It wasn't the US itself that made the illegal Iraq slaughter happen leading to the death of a million innocent people , it was a few select people with their lies and deceit. Is AM or Silverwolf to blame for the US invading Iraq over lies? No of course not. The nation acts according to a few people. People people like Am and Silverwolf voted for, or not, proving they aren't to blame. It's not the nation that acts, it's a few selct people within it that acts. The nation only goes along for the ride. So I'd NEVER place a flag upside down as a protest. Not burn a flag. THAT'S silly and r-u-d-e!
nebraska29
Jul 21 2007, 03:56 AM
QUOTE
How effective is this form of protest?
One of the most important functions of protest is to garner attention. As a tactic, hanging the flag upside down is unarguably effective in that regard. Just look at the woman in the
Denver Post article. By hanging the flag upside down, this woman in one symbolic act of free expression, put herself on the cover of a large daily paper and have a lot of people talking. While we aren't debating why she put the flag upside down, I'm certain that others are curious as to why she did it. Just imagine, if more people flew the flag upside down like she did, if your neighbors and other people in your community did likewise, would that not be a powerful message regarding the war or some other given topic?
QUOTE
Is it just Colorado or is this a trend elsewhere?
I doubt it's a widespread trend, I haven't seen anything about it other than this article.
QUOTE
What are your reactions to seeing a flag flown upside down?
Upon seeing it, I'm first curious as to why the flag is being flown upside down. It definitely gets me thinking about what issue motivates average people to do such a powerfully symbolic act.
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