"Virginia Republicans announced legislation Wednesday that would prohibit public colleges and universities from accepting illegal immigrants even if they attended a public high school and were brought to the United States at an early age by their parents."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7082901619.html

I can understand the outrage some people feel that illegal aliens are taking spots at colleges that are too full to accept legal citizens, if such a thing can even be measured. But I wonder if, since the illegals are likely here to stay, if we aren't cutting of our nose to spite our own face--if they are here to stay, we might as well make sure they are educated and have the best chance to succeed.

Topic questions:

Is it good policy for America to bar illegals from attending public college here, in terms of cost, benefit to country, and fairness?

Is it fair to penalize illegal minors for the actions of their parents (assuming they were brought into the country by their parents at a young age)?

Is it good policy for America to bar illegals from attending public college here, in terms of cost, benefit to country, and fairness?

Absolutely- they are more than free enough to attempt to take advantage of the various legal avenues for going to school. Family in the area helps them get those visas.


Is it fair to penalize illegal minors for the actions of their parents (assuming they were brought into the country by their parents at a young age)?

Is fair to penalize the foks that came in legally? I have brought in 3 ad it has cost me time and money and stress. Why should they get it all for free? Otherwise- refund my money lawyers and such and I may reconsider.

Yes. Just read your own question. The word that needs to "pop out" at you is illegal.


Yes. Breaking the law for a long time doesn't make you less guilty.

You bet. Save the spots for the kids of poor legal citizens. Here in MA the fools in our legislature vote every year to give these kids “in state tuition” and every year our Republican governor has vetoed it. Now we have a Dem so it may change.

The rational that they have been illegally getting a primary education and now we should continue that is so stupid as to be not worth discussing.

A person robs money from a bank and gets away with it. Should we let him come back for more then?





Another ridiculous argument. The parents are criminals and shme on us for letting their kids get a free education and taxpayer expense. They should go BACK to wherever with their parents and get educated THERE not HERE.

There are millions of educated people who would love to live here. We do no need to reward illegal aliens with education. Its bad enough we have to support and educated the kids if criminals because they are born here.

Is it good policy for America to bar illegals from attending public college here, in terms of cost, benefit to country, and fairness? A good question, which I don't have sufficient time to answer now (but will try to address later).

Is it fair to penalize illegal minors for the actions of their parents (assuming they were brought into the country by their parents at a young age)?

Another good question, but comes with an unproven assumption, and ignores the converse question: Is if fair to have the taxpayers pay for college for students who shouldn't even be in this country to begin with? From a fairness perspective, the answer to that question almost has to be 'no'. However, the real answer goes back to the first question...is doing so good policy. If it is, in terms of cost/benefit, then it probably is fair to the taxpayer. If not, then it isn't.

The other unasked question here is 'If we keep providing benefits to those who are here illegally, how are we ever going to stop them from coming here illegally?". The answer to that question, in my mind, trumps the others.

Is it good policy for America to bar illegals from attending public college here, in terms of cost, benefit to country, and fairness?

The question in Colorado is whether to charge out-of-state tuition or not. But then it comes to other questions too, such as if you're undocumented, how the heck can you get into college at all? You don't exist as a citizen, not in the legal system. Or you've got fake ID. I just don't see any justification whatsoever for anyone illegally in this country to get into anything anywhere at anytime.

I can see a cost benefit for having a work force that doesn't exist in the legal system. Great target for exploitation.

Do we want to exploit children?

Another question comes to mind: Where does the college money come from? It ain't cheap. Lots of citizens can't afford it. Are there like citizen sponsors of illegal immigrants? Is that legal in itself? Probably not.

Is it fair to penalize illegal minors for the actions of their parents (assuming they were brought into the country by their parents at a young age)?

So, are the children guilty of the parents' sins? Well, maybe so when it comes to immigration. Not so when it comes to adultery et al. It sucks that your parents snuck past the boarder guards. It'll suck when you're hauled back to your country of citizenship. Sometimes life really sucks.

I remember getting a VW van torn down while the Canadians looked for drugs. There were none, and we had to put the thing back together ourselves. That sucked, but at least we were in Canada legally. You want something, play by the rules or pay the consequences.

Basic life principle.

So no college for illegal immigrants. No cutting the citizenship line either.

Huh? Here's where my non-USA brain starts to fuse. Illegal immigrants, surely, cannot legally do anything very much - they can't legally work (because they don't have a work permit) they can't claim welfare (because they don't exist in the welfare rolls) and they can't go to schools or colleges because they aren't entitled to. Even paying an out-of-state tuition fee doesn't cut it, because you have to apply for a valid student visa on your home country's passport to be able to register in the first place.

Is the US immigration service that overstretched and/or badly run that it cannot deal with this?

Now, if someone enters illegally then claims asylum, and the authorities grant them leave to remain, then by definition they stop being illegal migrants and become legal, in which case their rights change.

So I don't really see how it can be anything but good policy to exclude illegals form the public (and the private) education system. If the system defines them as illegal, they don't get to do ANYTHING. If you want them to be entitled to do anything, maybe it's their status of illegality that needs to be reviewed, and not education policy.

The same logic applies to illegal immigrants who entered the country as infants or children. Certainly it isn't fair to punish them for the sins of their parents, but deportation isn't punishment if you are deported with your family and you didn't enter legally in the first place (if you did, and you haven't done anything illegal since, then it isn't deportation, it's banishment).

That all makes me seem anti-immigration, and I'm not, at least not in principle. Ulitmately, it seems to me that there is a logical conflict in the idea of arguing that those that are illegally present should be given any accommodation while still being classified as illegally present. It's as daft as passing a law that says incarcerated felons cannot legally drive a car. Of course they can't drive a car - they're in prison!

If you're going to educate them, let them work, ask them to pay taxes, and all the normal things of a society, you cannot still think of them as being illegally there. Is this some attempt at an immigrant amnesty or something? That might not be, of itself, a bad idea, but let's at least recognise that there is an elephant in the room.

Let's evaluate the premises:

(1) Federal immigration Laws were USURPED because the chinese presence in our midst constituted an "emergency". There were NO allegations that they were a burden on the public fisc, criminals or diseased;

(2) The Supreme Court has ruled that Negroes were not US citizens;

(3) Is money the issue? Well we are spending 8-10 bbbbbbbbillion dollars A MONTH financing the Iraqi invasion even though there is no lawful reason for doing so.

Wherefore Contumacious concludes that the Repugnants are merely grandstanding for the xenophobes, skinheads , neonazis, and other malcontents.


dem·a·gogue /ˈdɛməˌgɒg, -ˌgɔg/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dem-uh-gog, -gawg] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -gogued, -gogu·ing.
–noun
1. a person, esp. an orator or political leader, who gains power and popularity by arousing the emotions, passions, and prejudices of the people.

That is a good point. Tuition and other expenses at public four year colleges has gone through the roof. Two year community colleges offer a better deal.

I have always thought that an educated illegal population was better than an uneducated one. Even if illegals are accepted, I don't know how they are going to be able to afford the costs, especially if that cost involves out-of-state tuition.

Here are the current charges at The University of Texas, where I got both my undergraduate and graduate degrees. I don't know if I would be able to afford UNT now.



http://iiswinprd03.petersons.com/ugchannel...amp;inunId=7859

You have no idea. Unlike most of Europe and Canada where you need a passport to even get a room illegal aliens in the US can do and get almost anything. In California (and many states and many cities) until recently it was not permitted to even ask if a person was illegal before giving them healthcare, education and even a drivers liceense.

In fact we have “Sanctuary cities” like New York, and San Francisco that tell illegal aliens that they will NOT help the immigration people find illegal aliens.

Some stupid states (like mine – Mass.) have bills introduced every year (mostly by democrats) to give the illegal immigrant kids of illegal aliens in state college rates!

Add to that the fact that most cities and towns do not even make businesses check immigration status and you see how bad it is here.

No country in the industrial. WORLD is as permissive of illegal immigration as the US.

It is a total disaster.




EXACTLY. But try to tell that to fools like Ted Kennedy in our Senate and many liberal pols. Makes no sense to me.