Full Version: Maliki government deeply corrupt says Radhi al-Radhi
Just exactly what are we defending over in Iraq? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Here the former or perhaps present head of the Iraqi Commission on Public Integrity(CPI) lays out the case for major corruption in the Maliki headed government.
Questions for discussion:
Do you think corruption is out of control in the present Iraqi government? If so, what are the implications for American policy over there? If not, what would out of control corruption look like to you?
What kind of minimal standards of government do you think are a precondition for a successful American policy in Iraq?
Should America as an alternative if necessary simply order up a government to its specifications, make the rules and then enforce them until such time as satisfactory conditions for self-rule by our standards come into being?
Here the former or perhaps present head of the Iraqi Commission on Public Integrity(CPI) lays out the case for major corruption in the Maliki headed government.
QUOTE
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgame...&pid=230567
the chief anti-corruption officer of the Iraqi government has a tough message for anyone concerned about Iraq: The government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is so riddled with corruption it ought to be totally scrapped. Radhi al-Radhi, who since 2004 has headed the Commission on Public Integrity (CPI), an independent Iraqi institution that tries to investigate and prosecute corrupt Iraqi officials, offers this damning indictment of the Iraqi government at a time when Maliki and his allies are mounting a fierce attack against him and attempting to replace Radhi with a Maliki loyalist who himself has been arrested on corruption charges.
Last week I posted an article disclosing that a team of officials at the US embassy in Baghdad had drafted a secret report detailing rampant corruption and criminality throughout the Iraqi government. The embassy report notes that corruption is "the norm in many ministries" and that Maliki has consistently blocked the work of Radhi and the Commission on Public Integrity.
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He estimates that the various ministries, hampered by fraud and waste, are only meeting between 2 and 5 percent of their obligations. He says that $7 billion has been pocketed or wasted at the Ministry of Defense, that the same has happened to $4 billion at the Ministry of Electricity. "At other ministries," he adds, "it's half a billion dollars here, a quarter of a billion dollars there. You can imagine the whole number. It works like the Mafia."
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Corruption within the Iraqi government, Radhi says, "is increasing day by day." The government's budget for 2007 (including funds left over from 2006) is $71 billion, he remarks, yet "you see no reconstruction, and we still don't have oil or electricity and no security from the Ministry of Defense or the Ministry of the Interior, and they're each spending billions of dollars."
the chief anti-corruption officer of the Iraqi government has a tough message for anyone concerned about Iraq: The government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is so riddled with corruption it ought to be totally scrapped. Radhi al-Radhi, who since 2004 has headed the Commission on Public Integrity (CPI), an independent Iraqi institution that tries to investigate and prosecute corrupt Iraqi officials, offers this damning indictment of the Iraqi government at a time when Maliki and his allies are mounting a fierce attack against him and attempting to replace Radhi with a Maliki loyalist who himself has been arrested on corruption charges.
Last week I posted an article disclosing that a team of officials at the US embassy in Baghdad had drafted a secret report detailing rampant corruption and criminality throughout the Iraqi government. The embassy report notes that corruption is "the norm in many ministries" and that Maliki has consistently blocked the work of Radhi and the Commission on Public Integrity.
--------------------------------------------------------------
He estimates that the various ministries, hampered by fraud and waste, are only meeting between 2 and 5 percent of their obligations. He says that $7 billion has been pocketed or wasted at the Ministry of Defense, that the same has happened to $4 billion at the Ministry of Electricity. "At other ministries," he adds, "it's half a billion dollars here, a quarter of a billion dollars there. You can imagine the whole number. It works like the Mafia."
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Corruption within the Iraqi government, Radhi says, "is increasing day by day." The government's budget for 2007 (including funds left over from 2006) is $71 billion, he remarks, yet "you see no reconstruction, and we still don't have oil or electricity and no security from the Ministry of Defense or the Ministry of the Interior, and they're each spending billions of dollars."
Questions for discussion:
Do you think corruption is out of control in the present Iraqi government? If so, what are the implications for American policy over there? If not, what would out of control corruption look like to you?
What kind of minimal standards of government do you think are a precondition for a successful American policy in Iraq?
Should America as an alternative if necessary simply order up a government to its specifications, make the rules and then enforce them until such time as satisfactory conditions for self-rule by our standards come into being?
QUOTE(Dingo @ Sep 14 2007, 10:02 PM) 
Questions for discussion:
Do you think corruption is out of control in the present Iraqi government? If so, what are the implications for American policy over there? If not, what would out of control corruption look like to you?
All governments are corrupt.
What makes the Maliki government more "corrupt" than others is the fact that he insists in aligning Iraq with Iran and Hezbollah. The Maliki blowback is prima facie evidence that the neocons have no idea what they are doing. The primary purpose of invading Iraq was to remove Saddam Hussein thereby neutralizing Syria. Bwahahahaha Incompetent fools.
I feel sorry for the 3700 GI's who lost the lives believing that the patriotic thing to do was to follow the command of thug and war criminal George Bush.
Of course , the neocons had to make it look like the true purpose of the invasion was to establish a democracy. They totally forgot that there are 16,000,000 shiites and only 9,000,000 sunnis. They , of course, forgot to do the math.
In the process they have angered sunni Saudi Arabia.
What kind of minimal standards of government do you think are a precondition for a successful American policy in Iraq?
They should dispense with the pretenses and install a Mossad puppet.
Should America as an alternative if necessary simply order up a government to its specifications, make the rules and then enforce them until such time as satisfactory conditions for self-rule by our standards come into being?
Well, that is what will eventually happen. But first they most assassinate Maliki's character and demonize the shiites.
QUOTE(Dingo @ Sep 14 2007, 11:02 PM)
Just exactly what are we defending over in Iraq? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Louisiana? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in New Jersey? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Mississippi? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Ohio? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Oh you get the idea...
Iraq's government is corrupt. And this is shocking you... Why?
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep 14 2007, 08:39 PM)
QUOTE(Dingo @ Sep 14 2007, 11:02 PM)
Just exactly what are we defending over in Iraq? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Louisiana? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in New Jersey? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Mississippi? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Ohio? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Oh you get the idea...
Iraq's government is corrupt. And this is shocking you... Why?
Interesting that you didn't see important differences in corruption between the Iraqi government and the examples you cloned into my opening remarks. Certainly the level of corruption and dangerous character of that corruption would seem to be profoundly different from my perspective. You also didn't feel it was worth your while to answer any of my questions. I guess that means you are pretty much aligned with the present policies of Bush administration. My questions allowed for the possibility of defending the BA so you might want to revisit them.
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep 14 2007, 07:39 PM)
QUOTE(Dingo @ Sep 14 2007, 11:02 PM)
Just exactly what are we defending over in Iraq? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Louisiana? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in New Jersey? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Mississippi? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Ohio? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Oh you get the idea...
Iraq's government is corrupt. And this is shocking you... Why?
I guess you don't see the difference in taking care of our own corruption here and propping up corruption in another country then? Why in the world is it "socialist" to build schools, hospitals and roads in America- but somehow "conservative" to do the same in Iraq?
It is always okay to defend and make sacrifices for your own country for noble means- not so when imposing your will, oppressiong and occupying another country. We are now the bad guys in Iraq, by virtue of our very precense. Mobilizing our forces to help in natural disasters in our own country is neither an occupation nor oppression.
Interesting that you can't tell the difference.
Do you think corruption is out of control in the present Iraqi government? If so, what are the implications for American policy over there? If not, what would out of control corruption look like to you?
No, I think this is business as usual for Arabs. Look at their flip-flop alliances in Afghanistan. Every town had two flags, theirs and the enemies so they could change sides on a moment's notice.
What kind of minimal standards of government do you think are a precondition for a successful American policy in Iraq?
Check the UN handbook. What the heck?
Should America as an alternative if necessary simply order up a government to its specifications, make the rules and then enforce them until such time as satisfactory conditions for self-rule by our standards come into being?
Hell no!
No, I think this is business as usual for Arabs. Look at their flip-flop alliances in Afghanistan. Every town had two flags, theirs and the enemies so they could change sides on a moment's notice.
What kind of minimal standards of government do you think are a precondition for a successful American policy in Iraq?
Check the UN handbook. What the heck?
Should America as an alternative if necessary simply order up a government to its specifications, make the rules and then enforce them until such time as satisfactory conditions for self-rule by our standards come into being?
Hell no!
The last debate question is an intriguing one. I was reminded of the U.S. running of post-World War II Japan as an interesting model, but then quickly remembered, we already have run the show in Iraq. We did that through the Coalition Provisional Authority. The logistics of running another country is not something to scoff at and I would say that we did an average job of doing it. The biggest problem though is that if you go back to that kind of model and dissolve the current Iraqi state, then that looks like to the people of Iraq, that they are nom ore than a colony or puppet-state of ours. I see nothing but bad things happening if we were to go back to some form of control by the U.S. Of course, our current situation isn't any better as our goals for Iraqi reunification is dead in the water according to Iraqi leaders.
QUOTE(The Founders Intent @ Sep 26 2007, 04:42 PM)
Do you think corruption is out of control in the present Iraqi government? If so, what are the implications for American policy over there? If not, what would out of control corruption look like to you?
No, I think this is business as usual for Arabs.
No, I think this is business as usual for Arabs.
So the Maliki government isn't suffering from unusual corruption by Arab standards. Nothing out of control here. Apparently a lot of Republican representatives agree with that assessment.
QUOTE
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgame...&pid=240234
On Thursday, former Judge Radhi al-Radhi, Iraq's top anticorruption official until he was recently forced out by the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, appeared before the House government oversight committee and described what had become of people who had worked for him at the Commission on Public Integrity as they investigated crime and fraud within the Iraqi government:
Thirty-one employees have been killed as well as at least twelve family members. In a number of cases, my staff and their relatives have been kidnapped or detained and tortured prior to being killed. Many of these people were gunned down at close range. This includes my staff member Mohammed Abd Salif, who was gunned down with his seven-month pregnant wife. In one case of targeted death and torture, the security chief on my staff was threatened with death many times. His father was recently kidnapped and killed because of his son's work at CPI. His body hung on a meat hook. One of my staff members who performed clerical duties was protected by my security staff, but his 80-year-old father was kidnapped because his son worked at CPI. When his dead body was found, a power drill had been used to drill his body with holes. Waleed Kashmoula was the head of CPI's Mosul branch. In March 2005, a suicide bomber met with Waleed in his office...and then set off his vest [bomb], killing Waleed....My family's home has been attacked by rockets. I have had a sniper bullet striking near me as I was outside my office. We have learned the hard way that the corrupt will stop at nothing.
Minutes later, Republicans members of the committee were suggesting there was nothing unusual or shocking about corruption in Iraq. "Corruption is not a new phenomenon," remarked Representative Tom Davis, the senior GOPer on the panel. Another committee Republican, Representative Darrell Issa ☼, huffed, "We're not surprised a country that was run by a corrupt dictator...would have a pattern of corruption." And Republican Representative John Mica ☼ noted that corruption plagues many democratic countries, including the United States. Mica cited Watergate and the prosecution of Reagan administration officials, and he claimed that the Clinton administration had "the most number of witnesses to die suddenly."
Their spin: corruption in Iraq is no big deal.
But Radhi in his testimony reiterated what he said in an interview with me several weeks ago: corruption is "rampant" within Iraq (perverting virtually every ministry and costing tens of billions of dollars); it's undermining the entire government and has "stopped the process of reconstruction"; Maliki has consistently blocked corruption investigations (especially probes involving his associates and family); in some instances corruption is "financing terrorism" by funding sectarian militias; and the situation is getting worse. Radhi noted that of the 3000 corruption cases his commission investigated and forwarded to Iraqi courts for prosecution, only 241 have been adjudicated. Also appearing as a witness at the hearing, Stuart Bowen Jr., the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, echoed Radhi, testifying that corruption within the Iraqi government is the "second insurgency." Bowen reported that corruption is on the rise in Iraq--partly due to Maliki's protection of crooked officials. He quoted one Iraqi official who said that "corruption is threatening the state."
On Thursday, former Judge Radhi al-Radhi, Iraq's top anticorruption official until he was recently forced out by the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, appeared before the House government oversight committee and described what had become of people who had worked for him at the Commission on Public Integrity as they investigated crime and fraud within the Iraqi government:
Thirty-one employees have been killed as well as at least twelve family members. In a number of cases, my staff and their relatives have been kidnapped or detained and tortured prior to being killed. Many of these people were gunned down at close range. This includes my staff member Mohammed Abd Salif, who was gunned down with his seven-month pregnant wife. In one case of targeted death and torture, the security chief on my staff was threatened with death many times. His father was recently kidnapped and killed because of his son's work at CPI. His body hung on a meat hook. One of my staff members who performed clerical duties was protected by my security staff, but his 80-year-old father was kidnapped because his son worked at CPI. When his dead body was found, a power drill had been used to drill his body with holes. Waleed Kashmoula was the head of CPI's Mosul branch. In March 2005, a suicide bomber met with Waleed in his office...and then set off his vest [bomb], killing Waleed....My family's home has been attacked by rockets. I have had a sniper bullet striking near me as I was outside my office. We have learned the hard way that the corrupt will stop at nothing.
Minutes later, Republicans members of the committee were suggesting there was nothing unusual or shocking about corruption in Iraq. "Corruption is not a new phenomenon," remarked Representative Tom Davis, the senior GOPer on the panel. Another committee Republican, Representative Darrell Issa ☼, huffed, "We're not surprised a country that was run by a corrupt dictator...would have a pattern of corruption." And Republican Representative John Mica ☼ noted that corruption plagues many democratic countries, including the United States. Mica cited Watergate and the prosecution of Reagan administration officials, and he claimed that the Clinton administration had "the most number of witnesses to die suddenly."
Their spin: corruption in Iraq is no big deal.
But Radhi in his testimony reiterated what he said in an interview with me several weeks ago: corruption is "rampant" within Iraq (perverting virtually every ministry and costing tens of billions of dollars); it's undermining the entire government and has "stopped the process of reconstruction"; Maliki has consistently blocked corruption investigations (especially probes involving his associates and family); in some instances corruption is "financing terrorism" by funding sectarian militias; and the situation is getting worse. Radhi noted that of the 3000 corruption cases his commission investigated and forwarded to Iraqi courts for prosecution, only 241 have been adjudicated. Also appearing as a witness at the hearing, Stuart Bowen Jr., the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, echoed Radhi, testifying that corruption within the Iraqi government is the "second insurgency." Bowen reported that corruption is on the rise in Iraq--partly due to Maliki's protection of crooked officials. He quoted one Iraqi official who said that "corruption is threatening the state."
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep 14 2007, 11:39 PM)
QUOTE(Dingo @ Sep 14 2007, 11:02 PM)
Just exactly what are we defending over in Iraq? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Louisiana? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in New Jersey? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Mississippi? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Just exactly what are we defending over in Ohio? If the government is corrupt from top to bottom, for what reason are we sacrificing lives and resources? If stolen money is floating all over the place presumably the bad guys are getting a nice piece of the action. What goal is being served if our resources are just being channeled down a rat hole?
Oh you get the idea...
Iraq's government is corrupt. And this is shocking you... Why?
Doesn't shock me. But you know the difference. Need I spell it out? I guess so.
This is our country.
This
Is
Our
Country.
This is not Iraq. We do not get to vote in Iraq. We do not put any pressure on that government to change. We can only do that here, in our country.
Do you think corruption is out of control in the present Iraqi government? If so, what are the implications for American policy over there? If not, what would out of control corruption look like to you?
Out of control? Out of who's control? Yes, I believe the Iraqi government is deeply corrupt. Its the government of Iraq. Its a Muslim government. Its a Middle Eastern government. Is the government of a nation divided by war and a history of violence. Under what conceivable circumstances could the government of Iraq be anything but corrupt?
I do not believe the corruption of the Iraqi government makes any difference to American policy. I do not even believe the Iraqi government makes any difference to American policy. The US government will define its policies regardless of such minor considerations as the wishes of its subject clients.
What kind of minimal standards of government do you think are a precondition for a successful American policy in Iraq?
None. Success in Iraq will not be defined by the standard of the government of Iraq.
Should America as an alternative if necessary simply order up a government to its specifications, make the rules and then enforce them until such time as satisfactory conditions for self-rule by our standards come into being?
How is that an alternative?
Out of control? Out of who's control? Yes, I believe the Iraqi government is deeply corrupt. Its the government of Iraq. Its a Muslim government. Its a Middle Eastern government. Is the government of a nation divided by war and a history of violence. Under what conceivable circumstances could the government of Iraq be anything but corrupt?
I do not believe the corruption of the Iraqi government makes any difference to American policy. I do not even believe the Iraqi government makes any difference to American policy. The US government will define its policies regardless of such minor considerations as the wishes of its subject clients.
What kind of minimal standards of government do you think are a precondition for a successful American policy in Iraq?
None. Success in Iraq will not be defined by the standard of the government of Iraq.
Should America as an alternative if necessary simply order up a government to its specifications, make the rules and then enforce them until such time as satisfactory conditions for self-rule by our standards come into being?
How is that an alternative?
Should America as an alternative if necessary simply order up a government to its specifications, make the rules and then enforce them until such time as satisfactory conditions for self-rule by our standards come into being?
I'll just take this one (have a midterm this morning and don't have time for the others).
Whether "necessary" or not, we don't have this option. This option expired when the UN declared Iraq to be an independent country with its own sovereignty and legitimacy. At that time, the Iraqi government, whatever its warts, usurped authority and the US is no longer either required or entitled to "make the rules". Our current occupation isn't under the Congressional authorization to use "all means necessary". That expired when the UN declared Iraqi sovereignty and authorized the peacekeepers to come in. The coalition forces are currently there under UN mandate.
About the only thing we can do now is either choose to work with the current government (offering carrots), or choose to leave. Leaving would be my option, but I think it's inaccurate to believe that Iraq could not become worse if we leave...it could go the way of Darfur. Or alternately, they might sort things out.
I'll just take this one (have a midterm this morning and don't have time for the others).
Whether "necessary" or not, we don't have this option. This option expired when the UN declared Iraq to be an independent country with its own sovereignty and legitimacy. At that time, the Iraqi government, whatever its warts, usurped authority and the US is no longer either required or entitled to "make the rules". Our current occupation isn't under the Congressional authorization to use "all means necessary". That expired when the UN declared Iraqi sovereignty and authorized the peacekeepers to come in. The coalition forces are currently there under UN mandate.
About the only thing we can do now is either choose to work with the current government (offering carrots), or choose to leave. Leaving would be my option, but I think it's inaccurate to believe that Iraq could not become worse if we leave...it could go the way of Darfur. Or alternately, they might sort things out.
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Oct 10 2007, 08:13 AM)
About the only thing we can do now is either choose to work with the current government (offering carrots), or choose to leave. Leaving would be my option, but I think it's inaccurate to believe that Iraq could not become worse if we leave...it could go the way of Darfur. Or alternately, they might sort things out.
Unfortunately, Mrs. P - even thought we don't always agree - you have more common sense than some can handle.
I agree that there is no reason to believe Iraq will disintegrate if we leave no more than we have a reason to believe they can take care of themselves, The problem is, the situation is in control of people who have a history of reacting to things that exist only in their head. I don't believe common sense can trump fear.
Iraq has stated quite clearly (and I don't know why nobody has started a thread on this - I would, but I don't have time) that there is no chance whatsoever of political reconciliation - the purpose of our efforts and the surge. But it's still business as usual.
QUOTE(DaytonRocker @ Oct 10 2007, 12:28 PM)
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Oct 10 2007, 08:13 AM)
About the only thing we can do now is either choose to work with the current government (offering carrots), or choose to leave. Leaving would be my option, but I think it's inaccurate to believe that Iraq could not become worse if we leave...it could go the way of Darfur. Or alternately, they might sort things out.
Unfortunately, Mrs. P - even thought we don't always agree - you have more common sense than some can handle.
I agree that there is no reason to believe Iraq will disintegrate if we leave no more than we have a reason to believe they can take care of themselves, The problem is, the situation is in control of people who have a history of reacting to things that exist only in their head. I don't believe common sense can trump fear.
Iraq has stated quite clearly (and I don't know why nobody has started a thread on this - I would, but I don't have time) that there is no chance whatsoever of political reconciliation - the purpose of our efforts and the surge. But it's still business as usual.
I have read the opposite from the government. Certainly AQ and some insurgent groups feel this way but to say there is “no chance” is premature at best. I agree that the government needs to move their butts on this issue and make it happen - it is not impossible.
“The U.N. chief attributed the drop in violence in part to a cease-fire by the Shi'ite Mahdi Army militia. He also said that a Sunni insurgent alliance against al-Qaida holds "significant political potential."
http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-10-18-voa27.cfm
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