Story:

Greenwood Walks, Fans Ticked Off

Lee Greenwood, famous country singer of God Bless the USA, let a crummy two grand check stop him from performing for a crowd of vets, fire fighters, police and their friends/relatives.

I know money talks and contracts are contracts, but this action violates so much that's human. He wouldn't accept a check for crying out loud, but still had 18 grand in cash. Obviously, I'm ticked too. What performer would let down all those fans? Those people? The ones sticking their necks out for your sorry tush? Anyways, questions come to mind:

What justifies Lee Greenwood's action?

How would you react if you had gone to the canceled concert?

If you were a musician, what would you have done?

What does this say about money, performers and patriotism?

Shucks, I work for tips. I work for peanut crumbs. Play the dang concert for freaking free just to pay homage to those Americans of genuine courage and love, or is it all about money?

I can understand the ramifications of breaking a contract, but not taking a check from the Knights of Columbus? It's not some slimy promoter who might put a stop payment or not have the money. It was the Knights of Columbus for God's sake!

I believe that musicians probably are in a number of sticky contract situations, and that people often are trying to hose them. The weird thing is that this was a benefit-related gig, that seemingly paid well for a washed up 'tard like Greenwood who has one song that anyone knows.

On the other hand, I do know that if they promised $14K wired, and only $10K came it might begin to seem fishy. I do business with companies all over the world and have walked on deals that smelled bad at the beginning. Consider this. If someone is stiffin' you for the $4K they 'said they wired', and then another $2K in a check (outside of contract), that is nearly 1/3 of the total fees. Now, you also have to consider public opinion and what the overall damage will be. Ill will sincerely will cost him more than a couple grand. It would any company that gets that type of press.

If I were a washed up singer that begs for work every other day but the 4th of July, I'd surely have played the concert, and then given them a time period to pay according to contract. A week or whatever, then gone to the newspaper. The media loves stuff like that. "Benefit promoter stiffs Greenwood". Instead, we get "Greenwood walks away from military and public service concert". I wonder how much more in business it will cost him than that silly $2K.

Well, I don't know Lee Geenwood personally, but have worked for the same label (not his current label - this was a few years back) and know the kind of people he deals with.

If his contract specified x amount and they didn't deliver, he should have walked. Trust me - if he didn't fulfill his end of the bargain, they'd be all over him like cheap perfume. And once word got out that he'll perform for less than the contract amount, it'll never stop.

The fault lies squarely with whoever hired him and their promoters. They should not have had an event they couldn't pay for or they should have canceled once they found out they didn't have the resources to pay. A lot of dropped balls landed at the feet of Lee Greenwood and it's not his job to pick them up.

I have to agree with DR- promoters, no matter what the name on the check LOVE to stiff entertainers. You either get the money up front, or you never see it again, period.

Any entertainer will tell you this- it is one rip off to another if you don't watch the money real close. Just because it says "Knights of Columbus" doesn't mean they are any better than any other promotor. The contract said 20k, then 20k needs to be where it is supposed to be by contract- or walk. Otherwise, you will never see the money- the next phrase ot of thier mouths is "so sue me"- which will obviously be more than 2k in legal expenses.

I think Greenwood sucks wind personally- but he was right in that one, for sure.

What justifies Lee Greenwood's action?

I hate to assume but will go ahead and do so anyway...

There had to be a contract between Greenwood and the venue. I tried to find a copy online of any standard contract he may have used but couldn't find one. I will further assume that the contract had a specific clause regarding how he was paid and I am certain there was a section in the contract that outlined what would happen in the event of a breach by either party to the contract. I can only assume that the breach section said that Greenwood could cancel if the venue didn't adhere to the terms. So short answer - a breach of contract would justify Greenwood's action.

How would you react if you had gone to the canceled concert?

First, I'd be wondering what the hell I was doing there. In the event, I wasn't being detained on Guantanamo, I probably would have complained to Mike, left the venue, blogged about it, and started a Casual Conversation about it. Yeah, I'm that kind of geek.

If you were a musician, what would you have done?

Meaning if I were in Greenwood's place and didn't get paid? It depends really. Since this was an event to honor the troops, I probably would have taken the Knights of Columbus' check and made the owner and organizers of the venue sign a Promissory Note, with each of them as personal guarantors, saying I would get my remaining money that was shorted in the wire transfer. If they failed to pay up later, I'd sue them.

Just a side note on that wire transfer. Thanks to the good ol' Patriot Act and the Bank Secrecy Act, any wire transfers that are more than $10,000 are subject to federal review and must get federal approval (Reference). Since we all know how quick and efficient the feds are, the venue owner probably wanted to avoid the hassle and figured they could pay the remaining amount in a separate payment. Since Greenwood is such a rah-rah American and seems to love his cold hard cash, he or his people should have been aware of this and not complained. Unless they like the feds harassing them in order to get paid.

What does this say about money, performers and patriotism?

I don't think this makes any broad, general statement. It's just one incident, but it certainly helps justify why I don't like Greenwood beyond his crappy music.

I have been looking around about this story and I strongly believe there is not only prior bad blood between these parties but I also don't believe everything the promoter is saying happened. Promoters are slimy. I have no doubt this one is too.

I think this sob story doesn't accurately reflect what happened.

I don't even know who Lee Greenwood is but I suspect his management is acting in the best interest of Lee. It also seems like Lee has done his fair share of Free Shows in the past.

I still take issue with the part in the song that says, "and I won't forget the men who died and gave that right to me..." How about, "and I won't forget all those who died"? It is gender-inclusive. But hey, that's my little pet peeve.

I had a therapist who told me many years ago that people tend to engage in a little psychological game called "Heroes and Bastards". The upshot of it is that we idolize people until they screw up somehow, and then our opinion of them turns 180 degrees, and voila'. The problem lies with us placing people on pedestals to begin with.

If I were part of the audience waiting for Lee Greenwood to perform (and I wouldn't be), I would be ticked off about his walking away like anyone else. But I would also be ticked off with the promoter.

A musician, especially one who has to travel from out of town, has a reasonable expectation of getting paid according to his contract.

Greenwood's refusal to perform would cause other people to examine the business dealings of the one who had contracted for his services. Whoever the promoter was should have his behavior exposed for present and future clients to see. Let the buyer beware...

It would have been a magnanimous gesture for Lee Greenwood to have performed for his fans anyway, but it isn't a sound way to do business, at least in the short term. It certainly would have produced good will if he had gone out on stage and said, "Ladies and gentlemen, [insert jerk's name] did not pay the promised money for me to perform for you here today, but I won't hold it against you, my fellow Americans, so here goes..."

Hear the crowd roar!

But then, he would still have to pay his roadies and musicians the same amount of money to perform as he always does. They are as entitled to fair compensation as he is. And I wonder just how far $2,000 from the Knights of Columbus would have gone.

So what matters more, the principle of not letting one's fans down, or the money? Guess we know his vote.

What justifies Lee Greenwood's action?

Only that money trumps all in what he does. No bucks, no performance and that's that. Money rules the heart and mind, and maybe that's why he sucks so much.

How would you react if you had gone to the canceled concert?

Just like the fans did. I'd stop being a fan, which of course I'm not, but if I were. Shuckins, I saw Neil Young do a concert in the rain with lightning all around, roadies squeegeeing off the stage and all that wattage going on. That was impressive and increased my fandom exponentially.

If you were a musician, what would you have done?

I'd have played the concert and kept the business side over there. Getting screwed is part of the business, but disappointing fans is not. That's on a human level, an energy and karmic level. I can see walking away from a recording deal, but not a live performance. The show must go on no matter what, except for illness.

Oh wait, what about that excuse? Greenwood could have faked laryngitis! What was he thinking?

What does this say about money, performers and patriotism?

Says to me that people get exploited all the time. Dang shame.

Lee Greenwood, though he was originally from Los Angeles, California, is the quintessence of a "country bumpkin." His last top 40 Billboard Country hit, prior to 9/11, was a duet with Suzy Boggess in 1991 called - "Hopelessly Yours." After a ten year absene from the charts he scored again on September 29, 2001 when "God Bless the USA" which peaked at No. 16 and remained on Billboard's country charts for 13 weeks. Cashing in on the country's misfortune? Fortunately, he hasn't made the charts since. Greenwood has about as much appeal as one of my cats' hairballs.

Source: Whitburn, Joel The Billboard Book of Top; 40 Country Hits, 2006, pages 143-144.

For those who like links, here's one from allmusic.com.

http://wm03.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&...ifexql5ldse~T51

BTW: There are different types of "country bumpkins." Hank Williams and Johnny Cash are memorable; Lee Greenwood only forgettable.

What justifies Lee Greenwood's action?

Well, a contract is a contract and Greenwood's people wanted cash up front. I think it was a mistake on their part given the circumstances and will end up hurting Greenwood down the line, but a contract is a contract.


How would you react if you had gone to the canceled concert?

I'd probably be pretty ticked off about it. I'm not sure quite at who, but I wouldn't be a happy camper. By the way was Greenwood the only performer at the concert?


If you were a musician, what would you have done?

I'd have probably told my people to work it out somehow and gone ahead and done the gig. It's not like he had any plans to do anything else at that point.


What does this say about money, performers and patriotism?

I don't think it says anything at all as a generality. It may say something about Lee Greenwood and/or his handlers, but I don't think one can make a generalization about performers in general when they look to help a cause. Living in Los Angeles I end up in settings all the time with various performers using their fame to help something in some way or another. They aren't any different than anyone else except they have the "star power" to garner more interest. My experience has been that most of them aren't in it for money, but rather because they believe in what they're doing. I don't have a problem with that at all and I don't think this isolated incident should really reflect badly on the good things that performers do.


Aquilla

Well, gee...since you put it that way, I guess he deserves to be demonized.

Please, is it really necessary to stereotype someone just to find a reason to hate them? If you think he sucks, fine. But he has a fine voice that is enjoyed by many people obviously not as intelligent as you.

There's no argument that Lee Greenwood has capitalized on 9/11. But that song was out and very, very famous well before 9/11. He shouldn't have to apologize for the demand on his song. He's selling what people are asking for.

Bof, I know we disagree on a lot of things, but we're usually not that far apart on music as we both share the same love for it. But out of all the people who it's fair to demonize regarding Bush's messes, is this the best you can do? You have to go for a singer that really hasn't made much of a political stink about any issue?

He doesn't do much for me, but he's not a bad singer that has a great song. He shouldn't be punished for it.

I don't think the song is great and I'll stand by my contention that it was rereleased when it was to capitalize on 9/11.

Apparently the song was released by Greenwood as early as 1990, but there was no single version until the 9/11 cash cow came along. Edited to add: The 2001 single version was relesed by Mike Curb, perhaps one of the most shady chracters in the record industry. So, Greenwood wasn't the only one making profit on the deal.

http://wm08.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&...p;sql=17:568668

Here’s a link to the original album.

http://wm08.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dllp=amg&a...10:0jftxqq5ld0e

With only nine booked concerts the rest of the year, it doesn’t look like Greenwood is very busy.

http://www.cmt.com/artists/az/greenwood_lee/tours.jhtml

Unless another national tragedy occurs, his career is essentially closed. What remains might be those "Garden Parties" Rick Nelson sang about. I wish him "a lot of luck."

BTW: My first thought on reading the title of this thread was that he forgot to take his Viagra.

I'm admittedly biased here. I've known this song since I was 6 or 7. Instead of the national anthem or pledge of allegiance, my elementary school in Utah played his song every morning. This was 1984'ish I believe. Since then, I've seen him at a ton of charity events, fairs, 4th of July events, etc.... I even met him at my coworker's dad's piano shop in Reno, Nevada. Apparently they were old friends from way back when he first was discovered there.

All I have to say is that there has got to be more to this story. He's not the kind of guy that lets down fans like that. I wouldn't be surprised if he were to stop by and do a free event after this is settled. It would be a great way give his fans what they want, let everyone know what really happened so maybe those people would think twice about giving any more money to the promoter that tried to stiff him.

I have to disagree with BoF that he's not that busy. 20 tour dates in the next 13 weeks.

Your source is probably more accurate than CMT.



I don't paticularly care for our national anthem, unless it's Duke Ellington playing it at Newport in 1956.

I prefer America the Beautiful or Woodie Guthrie's This Land, but not God Bless the USA. Was this a public or private school?

Country View Elementary in Hooper, Utah. Public school. Just don't go looking for any yearbooks, those glasses I wore were bigger than my head!

It appears the song was originally released in 1984 as a single where it hit number 7 complete with video!

This is correct. It was #7 on the Billboard country charts in 1984 for 17 weeks. It was released on MCA as #52386 and according to Joel Whitburn, came with a picture sleeve. The 2001 version, released by Mike Curb's label, was a remake of the original. The remake and rerelease by Curb make it all that much more apparent to me that the motive, possibly more on Curb's part than Greenwood's, was profit - especially since the original version was and still still available on MCA's Lee Greenwood: Greatest Hits.

http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Greenwood-Greate...s/dp/B000002O22

I don't suppose we could get an apology from Curb and/or Greenwood for the 2001 version. They are both still alive.

Arf! That was subliminal

I agree with DR that Greenwood has a nice voice. I just don't like his taste in music, oh well. Or maybe there is something he's done that I might like, just not that familiar with his repertoire.

Maybe he's getting sick of singing the same dang thing. Or maybe this was the last straw. I can see the music biz causing a career change -- it's a mess. Stands to reason that departing would be messy too.

So I'll modify my opinion and say given the same circumstances, I might walk too. But with the realization that this is throwing the whole career away. It would be one of those dilemmas where the hurt on one side kills the purpose on the other.

Regarding America the Beautiful, that song's good because it started out as a poem with the music following. Get on top of Pikes Peak (aka Shining Mountain) and it comes clear.

Heh, thinking about all the great artists who don't have great voices. Willie Nelson, Ry Cooder and OMG, Tom Waits! John Prine doesn't have that great of a voice either, just the songs. Yeah, just. Guess I'm a sucker for singer/song writers.

Coffee break's over, back on the head.

My take on this thread is that it is an attempt to lump hate on a man simply because he wrote a song about his love for The United States of America and his pride in being a citizen of that country.

You can lump some hate on me for stating my opinion, but I feel this is the true reason for this thread. Pretty sad.

Not entirely Sleeper.

What bothers me about this is that Mike Curb chose to rerecord this song, when the original was available on CD from MCA. I think most people like what they listened to as kids or young adults. Even a few notes difference can be detected by the human ear. As one reviewer said on Amazon.com about another remake, "only the original can recreate the moment." Without the backdrop of 9/11, the Curb record wouldn't have sold squat. Sorry, but this was more about than patriotism.

I blame Curb, more than Greenwood for releasing the song during the emotion of 9/11. Curb saw the cash cow in 9/11 and took advantage of a national tragedy. Greenwood was complicit in this by agreeing to rerecord the song.

You are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.

I like plenty of patriotic tunes penned by patriotic writers. For Greenwood, I question his priorities, although my opinion has changed since opening this thing up. Maybe two grand is a lot of money for him these days. Maybe he got dinked one too many times. Maybe he's sick of singing his 1984 hit over and over again for 23 years.

But you know my motivations better than I do. Yeah, I just started this because Greenwood bothers me so much.

Had nothing to do with things like the title of the thread or the questions asked. And of course my blinding hatred of patriotic songwriters like Woody Guthrie, John Philip Sousa and Katherine Lee Bates (actually a poet) certainly clouds my judgment about a performer walking out on a performance. Also whether a tune is used to make money off of people by appealing to their patriotism, that is, exploiting it. Or if the music biz exploits performers.

Why, you'd think that I couldn't change my opinion on the whole thing.

But I have.

Just for grins, let's take a look at the lyrics of the hit, shall we?

If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I’d worked for all my life.
And I had to start again,
with just my children and my wife.

I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.

- Okay, you get to keep your symbol of freedom, maybe enjoy it at the county courthouse, when you lose everything you've worked for all your life -

And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

- So you're volunteering to go to Iraq next? No, that's not what he means. He will defend her, not some foreign land, and I don't think with a gun but with a mouth -

From the lakes of Minnesota,
to the hills of Tennessee.
Across the plains of Texas,
From sea to shining sea.

From Detroit down to Houston,
and New York to L.A.
Well there's pride in every American heart,
and its time we stand and say.

- Kinda lifting lines from other tunes, isn't he? "From sea to shining sea" is directly from Bates, and the listing of places from Guthrie and the Wabash Cannonball -- in fact, try singing the above two stanzas to the tune of the Wabash Cannonball -

That I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

And I’m proud to be and American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

- Okay, I get the point -

***

Compare Greenwood with Bates:

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

- No mention of losing material stuff -

O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern impassioned stress
A thoroughfare of freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

- America has flaws? Liberty in law? Well, I guess so -

O beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife.
Who more than self their country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

- Whoa, heavy stuff there -

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

- Sounds pretty progressive to me -

O beautiful for halcyon skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the enameled plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till souls wax fair as earth and air
And music-hearted sea!

- She figured out another way to say it -

O beautiful for pilgrims feet,
Whose stem impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till paths be wrought through
wilds of thought
By pilgrim foot and knee!

- History comes in here -

O beautiful for glory-tale
Of liberating strife
When once and twice,
for man's avail
Men lavished precious life!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!

- Selfish gain here, which stains the banner of the free -

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!

- Yet another way of saying it -


Agree with the sentiments or not, Bates puts a lot more into her poetry, and that's why I like it better than Greenwood's lyrics. I don't hate his lyrics, it's just that they don't say very much and a big chunk is borrowed.

BTW, Samuel Ward did the melody for America the Beautiful. It's an easy one to build an instrumental arrangement around and is similar to the anthem. Just a little music trivia.

Who the Hell is Mike Curb?

Well, as expected, there's plenty more to the story.

The guy that promised $20K in cash or cashier's check (typical payment terms) claims he was only $2K shy. But according to Greenwood, he was $6K shy - not even close. I'd have to give Greenwood the benefit of the doubt since the promoter clearly never fullfilled his end of the bargain and would have a motive to pin it on Greenwood.

Now, as far as Greenwood's priorities, he's done 18 shows for free for the military. That's probably more than most.