This list isn't all conclusive - These people should apologize for what they've said and done:

Al Sharpton - For Tawana Brawley (at least)
Jesse Jackson - For Hymie Town (at least)
Rachel Carson - Silent Spring, indeed. Your lies probably killed more people world wide than anyone on this list.
Hillary Clinton - For the Ghandi crack
John Kerry - For the lies you told about Viet Nam. Better men than you were tortured because they wouldn't tell the lies you did for free. Even if you were duped it's time to apologize.
George W Bush - There were no WMDs. Even if you thought there were, there weren't, admit it
John Murtha - Those Haditha Marines were not "cold blooded murders" and you, of all people, should know that. Apologize.
The Duke 88 - You convicted those students before there was a shred of evidence against them, they're innocent, you're guilty. Apologize.
Bill Clinton - You know you had sexual relations with that woman, and you know the definition of is. Apologize.
Rush Limbaugh - You lied about your drug addiction and you smeared Michael J Fox. Apologize.
Bill O'Reilly - You didn't win a Peabody and you know the difference. You lied. Apologize.
Jayson Blair - You're not crazy, you're a liar. Apologize.
Scott Beauchamp - You lied. A lot. Apologize.
OJ - You're a murderer. You know it, we know. Apologize and go to jail.

I'm sure there's more, that's all I could think of at the moment:

Do you agree with this list? Who do you take exception to on it?

Who would you add and what for?

Everybody on Kerry's boat substantiated Kerry's stories. Nightline went to the village in question and the residents there substantiated Kerry's claims. The swiftboat liars owe the human race an apology for stealing air from the rest of the world.

Anybody that's been to Vietnam or been in the military with Vietnam vets know the things he says are true. You might not like it, but war is hell and the Vietnam war was no different. They torched villages, executed innocents, and wore the body parts of people they killed around their necks. My bet is, the Iraq war isn't much better - we just don't hear about it as much.

I don't even like Kerry - but he's been slandered for being a democrat. And he's been slandered by people too cowardly to serve themselves. What a bunch of yellow cowards. Maybe we should get an apology from them for not killing themselves when they should have.

I couldn't care less if Sharpton, Jackson, O'Reilly, and Limbaugh apologize. Maybe I am not that thin-skinned, but I don't really care what Jackson or Sharpton say, ditto for Limbaugh and O'Reilly. The first two are not politicians, and the latter two are not journalists.
Bill Clinton doesn't own anyone an apology except for his family - and whether this apology has been made or not, it's not my damn business.

DaytonRocker addressed John Kerry very well already.
It will take much more than a simple apology from GWB to redeem him in my eyes and in the eyes of many others.

As for John Murtha - he should apologize for NOTHING. 15 civilians were killed by American small-arms fire inside their own homes - another side-effect of Liberation of Iraq™, isn't it, BaphometsAdvocate?

I should have made it clearer what I was talking about in regards to John Kerry. I was referring to the Winter Soldier Investigation.



There's a lot of questions as to whether those people were civilians or combatants. As soon as you shoot at a soldier, you're a combatant.

Thanks for the link. So, what exactly should John Kerry apologize for? The link you provided states that the identities of participants were carefully vetted and nothing in the article indicates that the atrocities mentioned were untrue.



Ah, you know very well that among killed were elderly, women, and children. Killed at close range, execution-style. Not grenades even (to "clear the building").




If there's "lot of questions" whether those people were civilians or combatatants, why pay?
On the side note... how cheap is the life of an Iraqi civilian. $2534 on average...

read more of the link... it's rather long.

Are you suggesting that the elderly, women and children can't shoot a gun? There 3 exonerated Marines and it looks likely that a 4th will be exonerated soon. Murtha should apologize for calling them cold blooded killers, he was wrong and he should admit it. No one, anywhere on the planet, is saying Haditha didn't happen or that 24 people weren't killed. However, John Murtha called the Marines cold blooded murders which does not square with reality.

The select list of those killed:

Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali, 76 - Died with nine rounds in the chest and abdomen.
Khamisa Tuma Ali, 66 - wife of Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali
Abdullah Walid, 4.
Injured: Iman, 8, and Abdul Rahman, 5.

Muhammad Younis Salim, 8 -- son.
Noor Younis Salim, 14 -- daughter.
Sabaa Younis Salim, 10 -- daughter.
Zainab Younis Salim, 5 -- daughter.
Aisha Younis Salim, 3 -- daughter.
A 1-year-old girl staying with the family.

Which ones in the list above are potential enemy combatants, BaphometsAdvocate? That's nine people right there who were simply murdered.

So what that some marines were cleared? OJ Simpson was cleared, too...

Excellent point on OJ, must add him to the list.

Again... no one, anywhere, is saying that Haditha didn't happen. As for your list let's outright clear everyone 5 an under. If the Palestinians have taught us nothing it's that a 6 year old can shoot a gun - sorry that I have to assume that goes for any race.

The real point about Haditha is that, something horrible happened, The USMil investigated an prosecuted SOME, but not others. Murtha libeled them all.

Do you agree with this list? Who do you take exception to on it?[/quote]

The only way John Kerry could be on this list is if you buy the well financed and Karl Rove driven Swift Boat Veterans. Perhaps Michelle Malkin should apologize for telling Chris Matthews that Kerry intentionally shot himself to get another Purple Heart. Although CBS jumped the gun, we still know that Bush didn't take a physical in the Texas National Guard and that he leap head other people - through Daddy's influence - to get an assignment in the Texas National Guard. Maybe Bush should apologize for mistake of thinking he has the skills to be an adequate president.

Maybe you should apologize, BA, for starting yet another thread with highly emotional, low intellectual content that rips off old scabs - opens old wounds.

Generally, though, apologies have become so media orchestrated that I really don't give a continental damn if anyone ever offers another one. I'm tired of watching people, like Jimmy Swaggart, slobber all over themselves in making apologies.

Some one had to do something to stop the Israel bashing threads

And I don't think Kerry should apologize for the things he said HE did in Viet Nam, I think he should apologize for presenting as facts things he heard people did in Viet Nam

So, I take it your position is that the awful things he said happened in the Vietnam War never happened? Since you've never personally witnessed say, several dozen people get mowed down in Mai Lai, you can't say it really happened? Just because you've never worn the ears of people you've killed around your neck or witnessed such, it never happened?

Kerry presented facts and there can be no dispute that the terrible things he spoke of happened. They are not pretty and they are not popular. But it is war and war does awful things to good people. That was his entire point. Only a hatred of Kerry turned it into something other than what it really was.

Kerry knew it was as much of a bullcrap war as the Iraq War 2.0 is. Go visit the Vietnam Memorial in DC. If you want to know how that could have possibly happened, look very deep into the wall. The black wall will reflect the image of the people responsible for these tragedies. And usually, it's by people who have never served one day in the military.

I am not anti-war. In fact, I'm very pro-war when it comes to defending ourselves. But the Vietnam War and this Iraq War were both wars of choice that had nothing to do with our safety or defense of our homeland. And I've got the principles to call foul no matter which party is/was in power.

The problem with John Kerry's statements are two fold:

1) He NEVER witnessed ANYTHING he talked about. Kerry has also attempted to down play his involvement in the hearings.
2) The only reason he was there was to launch his political career.

The problems with what he testified about are that large swaths of it are myths. Most of what he was saying was verbatim what freed POWs said they were being tortured to say but Kerry just repeated it. He never witnessed anything, therefore he shouldn't have been testifying at any hearing on the topic... but when you're the Moderator...

And while you rail against the SBVs and their "tactics" be sure to remember that they've been saying exactly the same thing about John Kerry since 1971 and their story hasn't been discredited like the Winter Soldier hears have. And again, I don't want John Kerry to apologize for his service, his medals, how he got them or any of that. I want him to apologize for broad brushing the USMil as systematic Human Rights violators.

In your own link, it says the following:



And also:



So how can you launch a political career out of a non-event? It just doesn't make sense. Also, how come that "myths" have never been discredited?

I don't write or edit Wikipedia... clearly someone should.

Al Hubbard... look him up on VVAW.org. Look up Fake Witnesses VVAW. Read a book, or video on the topic.

In any event it's OK that you disagree with my list. I don't expect everyone to agree with it.

So essentially the real beef with my list is Murtha and Kerry? I can live with that.

On April 18, 2004, John Kerry appeared on Meet the Press. He was asked by Tim Russert about some of the statements he made upon returning to the U. S. from Vietnam. While he did not entirely back down from his statements, he did concede that some of his statements were over-the-top.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4772030/

I don’t know what you want in the way of an apology. Do you want him to snivel (using an onion to produce tears if necessary) into a snot rag, a la Swaggart, while crawling through glass begging for forgiveness?

Except for some phrases like “bring it on,” I’ve never heard Bush apologize for anything and it seems he did that only after Laura Bush kicked the presidential butt.

We have a new election in about 13 months. I don’t understand, BA, why you chose to reopen an emotional issue like the 2004 election, but if that’s what you want to debate, then “bring it on.” I’m sure I’m not the only one willing to go to the mat with you on this one.

BTW: I am sure there will be many people returning from Iraq with equally horrid tales. No pun intended, but it's time to "move on."

If you think that the Winter Soldier event has anything to do with the 2004 elections then I think you're mistaken.

A lot of this list deals with Fake But Accurate tales. The Duke 88, Rachel Carson, Scott Beauchamp... and John Kerry's LIES. He lied. The fact that those things COULD HAVE happened and some of them DID - doesn't make what he did right, or moral. He should simply admit he lied and apologize for smearing the USMil he served.

Lie is a strong word. Maybe Kerry does not think he lied and with his presidential aspirations at a seeming end, what difference does if make?

If you are so obsessed with this, why don't you do something constructive about it and e-mail him the suggestion that he apologize.

Here is his e-mail address.

http://kerry.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm

Of course, since he's no longer a national candidate and you are not from Massachusetts, he (his staff) might not pay much attention. Best of luck, though.

You're pretty reasonable so I don't think you are a BDS sufferer - but using your logic Bush didn't lie about WMDs.

As for Kerry, I can't possibly stress this enough - I don't care about his Presidential aspirations. I'm sure at a barbeque he's a really nice guy. I, for many reasons - personal and otherwise - find what he did to be among the worst things you can do to your country, countrymen and men you served with. I don't think he faked his service. I don't think his Purple Hearts are undeserved. Frankly I think he was duped and he put his political future ahead of he sense of dignity, honor and patriotism. I don't define his entire existence over this, and I'd like to see him honestly apologize.

That's one interpretation, but what would his apology at this point accomplish, if indeed it is warranted.

I wouldn't hold my breath. The voters of Massachusetts don't seem overly interested.

Quite frasnkly, if I'm going to get my knickers wadded up it's going to be over something more important than who owes some unspecified person an apology, be it Kerry or someone else. The apology game is getting old nand boring. Up next: Should Brittney apologize to K-Fed?

Well let's for a moment pretend he made an apology that was viewed to be authentic. I think the soldiers who felt he broad brushed them as Human Rights violators would feel better.

BA- what your contention is that he should apologize for an investigation? Sounds like he did his job to me- investigated allegations. The dude has an awesome track record as a prosecutor and as a senator of going after and getting bad guys. Do a little search on the BCCI scandal and Kerry- if not for him, this economic mess might have made it here undetected.

Considering the swift water liars, and Rovian/conservative tactics/lies that sought so hard to smear him- seems like the nation owes him an apology if anything.

I will give you Al Sharpton and Tawana Bradley- that destroys any credibility he has on any further investigation he may be on -EVER.



Jesse Jackson - For Hymie Town (at least)- Not really- he paid his dues and gets a pass here and there for his works in the civil rights era- you know, beat up and such. Perhaps for his extramarial affair by a Reverend though- and he did apologize for that, AND he apologized for hte hymie town comment anyway

Rachel Carson - Silent Spring, indeed. Your lies probably killed more people world wide than anyone on this list.Whatever- it hieghtened and started us on the path to realizing we can't dump toxic wastes in any manner a corp feels like.
Hillary Clinton - For the Ghandi crack - she did
John Kerry - For the lies you told about Viet Nam. Better men than you were tortured because they wouldn't tell the lies you did for free. Even if you were duped it's time to apologize.= covered already.

George W Bush - There were no WMDs. Even if you thought there were, there weren't, admit it- this dude needs to apologize for alot of things- hasn't apologized for anything yet.

John Murtha - Those Haditha Marines were not "cold blooded murders" and you, of all people, should know that. Apologize.The convictions speak for themselves.

The Duke 88 - You convicted those students before there was a shred of evidence against them, they're innocent, you're guilty. Apologize.
Some heads should roll, and did, in the form of the prosecutor- but the accuser needs to do hard time, equal to what those men would have recieved for thier lies.

Bill Clinton - You know you had sexual relations with that woman, and you know the definition of is. Apologize. He did.
Rush Limbaugh - You lied about your drug addiction and you smeared Michael J Fox. Apologize. Agreed- you are a hypocritical lying piece of human offal Rush.

Bill O'Reilly - You didn't win a Peabody and you know the difference. You lied. Apologize. So many lies, though Al Franken showed them pretty well, and you are a perv you predotory scumbag!

Jayson Blair - You're not crazy, you're a liar. Apologize. Agreed

Scott Beauchamp - You lied. A lot. Apologize. Okay- that one I am not following- I thought he only lied about where something happened- in Kuwait- I haven't followed this story, his blogs or anything- not a blip on my personal radar screen-what is your links to this one?
OJ - You're a murderer. You know it, we know. Apologize and go to jail. Might get our wish there afterall

And while your at it- why don't you ask papa bush for not having Barb abort that piece of offal we call "president" alive today?

Yeah, right.

I also think Kerry might feel better if the Swifties, Michelle Malkin and those of their ilk apololgized to him. It works both ways.

Vietnam vets probably have a lot more pressing things on their mind (uh, like V.A. Hospitals) than an apology from Kerry.

Again, BA, you are fighting a not so pressing and not so timely battle. You are resurrecting old wounds (whether you are talking about 2004 or not) and are trying to make something out of nothing.

Kofi Annan should apologise for Rwanda, Bosnia and Darfur

But CR Rachel Carson was wrong. Very very very wrong. You can't let Fake But Accurate pass. If you're right prove it, an do it honestly.

The Duke 88 are the professors who condemned the lacrosse team as rich white racists who regularly raped poor black women. Everything is as it should be in this case except for them. Crystal Magnum's life is punishment enough.


And for the rapes by UN Blue Helmets on his watch and the Oil For Food scandal

BA, I am a bit confused.

You first posted this:



Fine, but Rachel Carson died in 1964, so how does she apologize from the grave?

http://www.lkwdpl.org/wihohio/cars-rac.htm

This is even less timely than Kerry, who after all, is still alive. Oh hell, at least she's the only legally deceased person you put on the list.

Just because she's dead shouldn't let her off the hook!

You were writing in the present tense about people who should apologize. If you want to include dead people, there is no end - Hitler, etc. You have nullified your original hypothesis about apologies. Dead people can't apologize.

But I don't want Hitler to apologize. I wanted him to be gassed after he was starved and put in a balloon to see the effects of thin air...

You are getting further from reality with every post. Hitler seems to have beaten everyone to the punch. Had he survived, would you have liked an apology before the gallows door tripped at Nuremberg?

Your posts are taking your own thread off-topic.

I withdraw. Feel free to take the last word.

Man, I can't believe how long it took somebody to call out the passing of Rachel Carson, 40+! years ago. Sheesh...

I'm not going to step into the Kerry muddle, except to say that yes, I think he should apologize for being so utterly, completely wrong about what would happen in Southeast Asia after we left.

Agree completely with Moif about Kofi.

Paul Erhlichman should apoligize. If you don't know why, look him up.

John Edwards should apologize. Not for his candidacy or work as a Senator, but for his despicable behavior as a trial lawyer.

Fidel Castro should apologize.

Of course, there are many, many more who still live and have foisted misery and suffering upon others.

Above are the people from your list that I think SHOULD apologize. The rest I either haven't heard of ...or I don't think they owe anyone an apology (for example: Bill Clinton...for what, being a man???? )


Do you agree with this list? Who do you take exception to on it?

If we lived in a world where an apology meant something, but really, what good is an apology anymore?

Who would you add and what for?

Hmmmm... How about: Barry Bonds, Charles Manson, Madonna, and the guy that wrote the supposed autobiography and Oprah toted it on tv, then it turned out to be fiction. Actually, maybe Oprah should apologize for caring whether or not the story was true. If it's a good read it's a good read.

Anyone that was moronic enough to vote for GW a SECOND time should apologize

Conservatives ought to apologize for believing the politicians that they voted for would actually do what they say they would do.

Liberals should apologize for being spineless whiners that really haven't offered anything better than whining.

The Republican party should apologize for being so homophobic while being so rampantly closeted gay-behaving. Just get over it, apologize to the gays, and give them equal rights you self hating gays!

The Democratic party should apologize for having Barney Frank as thier corrupt gay mascot.

Libertarians should apologize for being such a group of whackjobs and wing nuts that thier very good ideas on liberty will never see themselves born to fruition.

Greens should apologize because they make the libertarians look sane.

I knew you'd get in the game!

I didn't bring up Hitler BTW.