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BaphometsAdvocate
QUOTE
(WBZ) BOSTON An MIT student with a fake bomb strapped to her chest -- later claiming it was art -- was arrested at gunpoint Friday at Logan International Airport, officials said.

Star Simpson, 19, had a computer circuit board and wiring in plain view over a black hooded sweat shirt she was wearing, said State Police Maj. Scott Pare, the commanding officer at the airport.

"She said that it was a piece of art and she wanted to stand out on career day," Pare said at a news conference. "She claims that it was just art, and that she was proud of the art and she wanted to display it."


Star dear, it's 2007, and not that it was ever OK to bring a fake bomb to an airport... you're lucky you're still alive! The police would have had complete justification in shooting you dead for this stunt. Wasn't it just last year that a few 'Lite-Brite' ads caused panic in the Boston area?

Questions for debate:

Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?


Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?


What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?
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moif
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?

Yes. The police have a duty to protect the majority, not the individual art student with her head firmly placed up her own fundamental orifice.


Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?

To some degree yes. Terrorisms aim is to strike fear into the heart of the civilians and the more its appears to be working, the more attractive the tactic will be. This girl probably had some kind of concept to her 'work'. Perhaps some idea about fear and society, but all she's really done is to create more fear. Basically, she has become a sort of terrorist wannabe.


What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

Six months community service in Suadi Arabia so she can learn to appreciate what she has threatened.
BoF
What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

QUOTE
Simpson was charged with disturbing the peace and possessing a hoax device.


http://wbztv.com/topstories/local_story_264104114.html

It really doesn't make a rat's rear what some of you would like to see happen to her. Simpson faces two specific charges. If she pleads guilty and reaches agreement with prosecutors or is found guilty, then the parameters for a penalty are already set within the law. There is no point in another outside-the-law punishment fantasy that so many seem so enamored with. Sorry, moif, but I don’t think six months in Saudi Arabia is an option.
Mrs. Pigpen
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?

Yes, of course. If I decided to display similar "art" by assembling an "art project" that I was "proud" enough to wear at all times that looked distinctly like an AK-47, and march into an airport I would probably be shot. If this woman were killed for wearing a pseudo-suicide belt, it would be understandable, and she would absolutely deserve a Darwin award.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?

hmmm.gif Perhaps. There's a fine line between paranoia and justifiable concern and I think that the airports have passed it at this point. But, that's unrelated to this particular incident.

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

I like moif's idea. I would love to see that. thumbsup.gif
Ted
QUOTE
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?



No, not unless she made it clear she would not cooperate and that the circuit board was attached to something sinister. If she had run or resisted she would, no doubt, have been killed.

That said I believe that if she just wanted to carry a “piece of art” she could have done that in a bag and it could have gone on the belt. Most of us bring “computer boards” through all the time as laptops with no problem.

The fact that she was wearing it, it was powered and had flashing lights AND “. Simpson also had Play-Doh in her hands, he said.” Made this a lot more than a piece of art. Clearly this idiot was trying to get people to believe she had plastic explosive hooked up to the electronic device.

QUOTE
Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?

No. Airports do what they need to do to prevent terrorists from getting on planes.
QUOTE
What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

Whatever the maximum is for this type of stunt. MIT should also consider booting her. This is not a joke these days.
AuthorMusician
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?

Under the current law, yes. We're becoming a police state rapidly due to fear of an electronic circuit board with flashing lights and a 9-volt battery worn on the outside of clothing, as anyone knows that's how terrorists blow things up. Not by cell phone, no no no.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?

That's pretty obvious in this case. There's a law about wearing a fake device? Just what the heck is a fake device? Is it one that doesn't work? This one works. Or a device that doesn't work for its intended purpose? This one does.

Heh, I like the playdough thing about being plastic explosives. I guess they smell the same, huh? Playdough reeks! I do think you need wires in the plastic explosives too, you know, to detonate them?

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

I think she'll get off on this one, both legally and in the humor of it.

BTW, Star is an MIT electrical engineering student, not art. She sees art in the circuits more than most other people. It would have been interesting had the counter worker asked about the pretty flashing lights instead of making grand assumptions.

I saw a little girl wearing sneakers with flashing lights a few days ago. OMG, call the Marines!

Yeah, we're getting paranoid, irrationally so. But I suppose the whole thing is a work of art to Star, and that's why she cooperated so well with the authorities. Next up, The Trial. Anybody read Camus' The Stranger?

And when you look at this stunt, it's pretty brilliant. I mean, part of it is to bring up extreme reactions, and that's what's happening on this board. Maybe she's stupid to pull this off -- but then maybe she's not. MIT, you know? Not exactly the town's voc-ed school.
BaphometsAdvocate
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Sep 21 2007, 02:09 PM) *
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?

Under the current law, yes. We're becoming a police state rapidly due to fear of an electronic circuit board with flashing lights and a 9-volt battery worn on the outside of clothing, as anyone knows that's how terrorists blow things up. Not by cell phone, no no no.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?

That's pretty obvious in this case. There's a law about wearing a fake device? Just what the heck is a fake device? Is it one that doesn't work? This one works. Or a device that doesn't work for its intended purpose? This one does.

Heh, I like the playdough thing about being plastic explosives. I guess they smell the same, huh? Playdough reeks! I do think you need wires in the plastic explosives too, you know, to detonate them?

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

I think she'll get off on this one, both legally and in the humor of it.

BTW, Star is an MIT electrical engineering student, not art. She sees art in the circuits more than most other people. It would have been interesting had the counter worker asked about the pretty flashing lights instead of making grand assumptions.

I saw a little girl wearing sneakers with flashing lights a few days ago. OMG, call the Marines!

Yeah, we're getting paranoid, irrationally so. But I suppose the whole thing is a work of art to Star, and that's why she cooperated so well with the authorities. Next up, The Trial. Anybody read Camus' The Stranger?

And when you look at this stunt, it's pretty brilliant. I mean, part of it is to bring up extreme reactions, and that's what's happening on this board. Maybe she's stupid to pull this off -- but then maybe she's not. MIT, you know? Not exactly the town's voc-ed school.

Your response is really rather flip. It makes me think your don't have to travel using airports much. You can't play around in airports anymore, not that you ever really could, but now it's worse.

She could have gotten herself killed or worse, gotten an innocent bystander killed. This wasn't pretty lights, it was designed to look like a bomb. She knew what she was doing.

On the plus side at least this isn't another Police Brutality/Tazer thread.
BoF
QUOTE(Ted @ Sep 21 2007, 12:47 PM) *
Whatever the maximum is for this type of stunt. MIT should also consider booting her. This is not a joke these days.


Ted you are indicative of the fear driven person who wants to max out everybody on everything. Before we do this there several things to consider:

1. She has not yet had her day in court.
2. When we max someone out, we should take prior history into account. Does she have a prior criminal record or has she been a model citizen?
3. For God’s sake she’s only 19-years-old. Do you want to lock her up for the next 50 years at tax-payer expense?
4. MIT should not expel her unless there is a problem with her academic standing or prior behavior problems.

It would be nice, Ted, if you would think through things before just hitting the keyboard. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep 21 2007, 01:18 PM) *
On the plus side at least this isn't another Police Brutality/Tazer thread.


For the first time since last Saturday, I agree with BA on something. laugh.gif

Police restraint has much to be said for it. thumbsup.gif

BTW: I'll bet you'd love it, Ted, if the state of Massachusetts could farm her out to Arpaio's tent hell hole. shifty.gif
Ted
QUOTE
BoF
1. She has not yet had her day in court.
2. When we max someone out, we should take prior history into account. Does she have a prior criminal record or has she been a model citizen.
3. For God’s sake she’s only 19-years-old. Do you want to lock her up for the next 50 years at tax-payer expense?
4. MIT should not expel her unless there is a problem with her academic standing or prior behavior problems.


BoF - Well you know I expected that is exactly what will be done and since I live here I can tell you she will walk with maybe a slap on the wrist – which I think will be too light for this kind of stunt – that could have gotten her or an innocent bystander killed.

One would expect that if you get into MIT you have the brains to know that this stunt would not go over well at Logan.

If she does get off with nothing do you think it will be a deterrent to the next dope who wants to have some fun at Logan? Would you have liked to be there when this happened ? certainly it caused a mess and backups at security – which, trust me, are not fun at Logan anytime.

Wertz
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep, 02:18 PM) *

Gee, it kinda looks like a circuit board to me - with some lights forming a star. blink.gif Sporting such a device on one's back is the terrorist MO these days? What will they think of next? Wearing scrolling light boxes announcing "I HAVE A BOMB" on their heads? Subtle.

In any event, it doesn't look as though Ms. Simpson was attempting to make any kind of political statement. I suspect she gave security concerns no more thought than I would, were I to enter an airport wearing my Yoda button with the flashing LED eyes.

QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep, 02:18 PM) *
She knew what she was doing.

Uh, yeah - meeting her boyfriend. Apparently, she wasn't any better at doing that than a terrorist would be in wearing a bomb outside their clothes with flashing lights on it.

Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?

I can't imagine anyone not cooperating when surrounded by a bunch of state troopers armed with submachine guns. But, no - this whole thing sounds like an hysterical overreaction. Then again, I suppose the Massachusetts police might still be reeling from the Lite-Brite Atrocity. But it's a good thing Star Simpson isn't deaf. She'd probably be dead - for wanting to meet her boyfriend.

It seems to me that something like, "Excuse me, miss - those Christmas lights on your back are upsetting the information booth lady. May I ask why you're wearing them?" would have been every bit as effective as getting all Rambo on her. But maybe I'm just not as terrified as many of you. Why is it that those on the left seem to be much less frightened than those on the right these days? And you guys revere John Wayne? I can just hear him: "Drop those twinkle-lights, ma'am, or you'll give me no choice." I generalize, of course, but it always seems that the most support for this kind of hysterical overreaction comes from the more conservative elements in our society. Or am I impugning conservatives? Perhaps I should say the more authoritarian elements of our society...

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?

Yep. As BA mentioned, what if the hysteria of the law enforcement officers had resulted in her death - or the death of bystanders? That sounds a tad unsafe.

Worse, though, is that these overt displays of force - and, by that, I mean having enough tommy gun-toting troopers patrolling an airport to be able to surround a sophomore in seconds (never mind the ludicrous shoe-searches and shampoo bans and all the rest of the signs of a national security state) contributes overwhelmingly to the level of fear. It doesn't increase vigilance or security, it increases terror and paranoia. Another point for al-Qaeda. thumbsup.gif

And BA is right again: our airports are worse - they're becoming downright Stalinist. (Note to self: Time to watch Brazil again - though it may not be as funny these days.) Metal detectors and x-rays of carry-ons makes sense. Securing cockpit doors makes sense. Banning knives on flights makes sense. The rest is all a dog-and-pony show to keep the populace fearful and easily manipulated - more prone to accept the dilution of our rights, more comfortable with this sort of unnecessary incident. It's dangerous. Al-Qaeda keeps on winning. thumbsup.gif

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

None. She deserves an apology.

I do hate those sneakers with the flashing lights, though. If state troopers blast the feet off of a few twelve-year-olds and end the fad, maybe the national security state could have an up-side. w00t.gif
Google
Lesly
Her crime appears to be: you don't take terrorism as seriously as airport security does. That's not tolerable.

Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?
Sure. Blow her brains out or show Muslims how much we disprove of their way of life by throwing her to the Saudis.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?
Oh no, no. We're not scared enough.

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?
Anything and everything that leads to destitution, loss of limb, rape and even death. Nonchalance can't be underestimated during righteous wartime.
BaphometsAdvocate
QUOTE(Lesly @ Sep 21 2007, 05:00 PM) *
Her crime appears to be: you don't take terrorism as seriously as airport security does. That's not tolerable.

Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?
Sure. Blow her brains out or show Muslims how much we disprove of their way of life by throwing her to the Saudis.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?
Oh no, no. We're not scared enough.

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?
Anything and everything that leads to destitution, loss of limb, rape and even death. Nonchalance can't be underestimated during righteous wartime.

I think Lesly's account has been taken over by Sean Hannity! w00t.gif
Sleeper
I have to agree with Wertz... In fact I will go a step further and say we should allow people to express themselves any way they want. I mean who's right is it to say how she dresses. She should even be allowed to get on a plane with such attire. I mean come on she was holding the play-dough in her hands. Where is a girl like this gonna get C4. Looks like an overreaction to me.
Lesly
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep 21 2007, 05:02 PM) *
I think Lesly's account has been taken over by Sean Hannity! w00t.gif

It hasn't, but thank you. Hannity's the most patriotic American of all patriotic Americans.
BaphometsAdvocate
QUOTE(Wertz @ Sep 21 2007, 04:26 PM) *
What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?
None. She deserves an apology.

No Wertz, you're wrong she does not deserve an apology. She should be given a "ticket" (of some kind) that carries a heavy enough monetary fine to sting her good! Further she, and a lot of you apparently, need to be made to understand there are place you just don't screw around. An airport is one of those places. If it's too much to ask, then I suggest you don't go to places like airports. There are other people on the planet that understand this and really need to use places like airports and frankly we don't need you or yours mucking the place up for us.
Wertz
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep, 05:11 PM) *
QUOTE(Wertz @ Sep, 04:26 PM) *
What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?
None. She deserves an apology.

No Wertz, you're wrong she does not deserve an apology. She should be given a "ticket" (of some kind) that carries a heavy enough monetary fine to sting her good! Further she, and a lot of you apparently, need to be made to understand there are place you just don't screw around. An airport is one of those places. If it's too much to ask, then I suggest you don't go to places like airports. There are other people on the planet that understand this and really need to use places like airports and frankly we don't need you or yours mucking the place up for us.

Geez - I didn't say I was going to wear my Yoda button. I know better than to pose such a threat to grown men and women who are armed to the teeth. Obviously, none of us will feel safer until Star Simpson's life is ruined.
Ted
QUOTE(Sleeper @ Sep 21 2007, 05:04 PM) *
I have to agree with Wertz... In fact I will go a step further and say we should allow people to express themselves any way they want. I mean who's right is it to say how she dresses. She should even be allowed to get on a plane with such attire. I mean come on she was holding the play-dough in her hands. Where is a girl like this gonna get C4. Looks like an overreaction to me.



I tend to agree with BA here. We pay the State Police (who do not carry sub guns by the way) to react. And just as an fyi if the play-dough, which looks like C4 was C4 it could easily be detonated by a wireless signal – this is how it is done in Iraq.

She needs to be punished or we will have more of this crap at airports and sooner or later someone will die, and in the meantime those of us who travel a lot will be standing in even longer security lines.

The fine sounds like a minimum to me - as a lesson.
Wertz
QUOTE(Ted @ Sep, 05:31 PM) *
We pay the State Police (who do not carry sub guns by the way) to react.

From the cited report:
QUOTE
Simpson then walked outside, and the information booth attendant notified a nearby trooper.

The trooper, joined by others with submachine guns, confronted her at a traffic island in front of the terminal.

We report, you decide. Looks like the police state has advanced further than you realized. In any event, we pay our state police to react appropriately.
Ted
QUOTE(Wertz @ Sep 21 2007, 05:38 PM) *
QUOTE(Ted @ Sep, 05:31 PM) *
We pay the State Police (who do not carry sub guns by the way) to react.

From the cited report:
QUOTE
Simpson then walked outside, and the information booth attendant notified a nearby trooper.

The trooper, joined by others with submachine guns, confronted her at a traffic island in front of the terminal.

We report, you decide. Looks like the police state has advanced further than you realized. In any event, we pay our state police to react appropriately.

QUOTE
Wertz
The trooper, joined by others with submachine guns, confronted her at a traffic island in front of the terminal

Which tells us that they pulled them from the racks as reports came in on this idiot. So she was real close to being shot dead.

Reading the article she apparently had to be asked twice about the device to get her “art work” answer. Then “Simpson then said the device was artwork and left the counter and walked around the terminal area, causing some employees to leave the building in fear, police said.”

"She was immediately told to stop, to raise her hands and not to make any movement, so we could observe all her movements to see if she was trying to trip any type of device," Pare said. "Had she not followed the protocol, we might have used deadly force."

"I'm shocked and appalled that somebody would wear this type of device to an airport," Pare said.

Simpson was "extremely lucky she followed the instructions or deadly force would have been used," Pare said. "She's lucky to be in a cell as opposed to the morgue."
moif
QUOTE(Lesly @ Sep 21 2007, 11:00 PM) *
Her crime appears to be: you don't take terrorism as seriously as airport security does. That's not tolerable.
Would you poke a bear with a sharp stick Leslie?

I don't think any one takes terrorism as seriously as airport security and there's kind of a reason why when terrorists keep hijacking, blowing up planes or attempting to do either one.

The fact of the matter is, any one could be a terrorist. Muslim or otherwise, though the latter aren't much into air craft these days itseems. Strange electronics, or concealed explosives, its been done. Children, even babies as weapons. Thats been done too.

This isn't an over reaction. Its the only way to even try to ensure the safety of the passengers. If you want to fly and not be murdered in 2007, then you are going to have follow the new rules, for the very simple reason that there are a multitude of ways of circumventing the old ones, such as explosive shoes or exploding baby milk. The only way this reaction was an 'over reaction' is if we accept that commuters are going to blown into oblivion on a regular basis.

This woman, for what ever reason she pulled this stunt, should have been aware that the security people at airports cannot read her mind, do not know what motivates her, have no way of knowing whether or not she is on a jihad, and cannot know this simply because she doesn't look Middle Eastern.
Jobius
A Salon.com staffer's blog suggests she may not have remembered she was even wearing the thing:
QUOTE
A woman from Instructables.com who knows Simpson tells Boing Boing that Simpson's friends at MIT "say she wears the hoodie on a regular basis -- it's just unfortunate that she had it on while trying to pick a friend up at the airport. MIT students don't really do mornings, or worry about what they're wearing, so I can't imagine she'd even think about her clothes before heading out to pick up a friend at the airport before 8 a.m."

I don't really believe it... does she end up with Play-Doh on her hands every time she wears it?

It sounds more like yet another stunt designed provoke a reaction from security people. "Wake up American sheeple, can't you see we're living in a fascist police state? Help, I'm being oppressed! Don't tase me, bro!"

Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?

God, I'd hate to see something like that happen. But if she'd done something really stupid, like holding up a toggle switch hooked up to her circuit board and shouting "Don't come any closer," I wouldn't fault the police for shooting her.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?

No, it's making us inconvenienced and cranky and late, but I don't think it's generally compromising our safety. I want airport security to take action if somebody has a fake bomb, or something that could be mistaken for a bomb. The 9/11 hijackers gained control of at least one of the planes in part by showing a fake bomb and threatening to blow up the plane.

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

It depends on whether she was trying to provoke a security response. If she really forgot she was wearing that contraption (I'm skeptical), I think she should get off with a fine and a stern lecture from the judge. If she intended for people to think she had a bomb, I'd say some prison time was warranted.
Lesly
QUOTE(moif @ Sep 21 2007, 07:08 PM) *
QUOTE(Lesly @ Sep 21 2007, 11:00 PM) *
Her crime appears to be: you don't take terrorism as seriously as airport security does. That's not tolerable.

Would you poke a bear with a sharp stick Leslie?

What is airport security doing hiring bears? The fact is one doesn't have to "ask for it" to get it, nor does one need to be a terrorist to be treated like one. That's flying in 2007.

QUOTE(moif @ Sep 21 2007, 07:08 PM) *
I don't think any one takes terrorism as seriously as airport security and there's kind of a reason why when terrorists keep hijacking, blowing up planes or attempting to do either one.

Well, as someone who hates flying, you're right. I'm more "foolishly" afraid of a plane crash than a hijack. I wish I was as confident as you are about airport security taking their job seriously. The creation of TSA and increased security measures are questionable.
CruisingRam
Okay- this woman is a retard- I mean, for real, how stupid was that? There is a saying that stupidity often carries the death penalty- it isn't justice neccesarily, but it is reality. thumbsup.gif

Yes, this girl should get kicked out of MIT, she is an embarrasment, at the least. She has brought national scrutiny for stupidity upon MIT now. w00t.gif

She may be book smart- but she has about as much common sense as the Bush administration it seems.

Okay- that being said- I agree with Wertz and others that our nation has moved FAR TOO FAR into the police state category, with jackbooted thugs allowed to harrass and intimidate and even physically abuse and kill citizens without real repurcussions- but this ain't it guys!

I can think of no more liberal to freedom place than the Netherlands- but, as with the dutch, they have a great deal of common sense when it comes to public safety and terrorism.

Pulling that stunt at an airport in the netherlands will get you the same treatment, or worse.

It is reasonable to have safety and tight security at the airport- as long as it is common sense. Perhaps if we adopted the dutch model, we wouldn't be having problems at airports anyway. rolleyes.gif

But this girl is a retard, to say the least, and is lucky she didn't get all dead from it!
Ted
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 21 2007, 08:12 PM) *
Okay- this woman is a retard- I mean, for real, how stupid was that? There is a saying that stupidity often carries the death penalty- it isn't justice neccesarily, but it is reality. thumbsup.gif

Yes, this girl should get kicked out of MIT, she is an embarrasment, at the least. She has brought national scrutiny for stupidity upon MIT now. w00t.gif

She may be book smart- but she has about as much common sense as the Bush administration it seems.

Okay- that being said- I agree with Wertz and others that our nation has moved FAR TOO FAR into the police state category, with jackbooted thugs allowed to harrass and intimidate and even physically abuse and kill citizens without real repurcussions- but this ain't it guys!

I can think of no more liberal to freedom place than the Netherlands- but, as with the dutch, they have a great deal of common sense when it comes to public safety and terrorism.

Pulling that stunt at an airport in the netherlands will get you the same treatment, or worse.

It is reasonable to have safety and tight security at the airport- as long as it is common sense. Perhaps if we adopted the dutch model, we wouldn't be having problems at airports anyway. rolleyes.gif

But this girl is a retard, to say the least, and is lucky she didn't get all dead from it!


QUOTE
But this girl is a retard, to say the least, and is lucky she didn't get all dead from it!


Yes and we should be thankful that after she spoke to the person at the terminal and scared the hell out of her she didn’t have to go to the bathroom.

The protocol is not public but you can bet that if she was not found quickly the next steps would have been, closing the airport, stopping all planes from landing or taking off and then empting the airport (not necessarily in that order). This could have affected the whole country and cost millions and held up hundreds of flights.


I really hope she gets a lot more than a slap o the wrist.
moif
QUOTE(Lesly @ Sep 22 2007, 01:49 AM) *
QUOTE(moif @ Sep 21 2007, 07:08 PM) *
QUOTE(Lesly @ Sep 21 2007, 11:00 PM) *
Her crime appears to be: you don't take terrorism as seriously as airport security does. That's not tolerable.

Would you poke a bear with a sharp stick Leslie?

What is airport security doing hiring bears? The fact is one doesn't have to "ask for it" to get it, nor does one need to be a terrorist to be treated like one. That's flying in 2007.

QUOTE(moif @ Sep 21 2007, 07:08 PM) *
I don't think any one takes terrorism as seriously as airport security and there's kind of a reason why when terrorists keep hijacking, blowing up planes or attempting to do either one.

Well, as someone who hates flying, you're right. I'm more "foolishly" afraid of a plane crash than a hijack. I wish I was as confident as you are about airport security taking their job seriously. The creation of TSA and increased security measures are questionable.

Well, be fair. I never said I was confident in airport security! ermm.gif

No, I think that as long as human beings are creatures of instinct, then we are going to see fear playing a role in incidents like this. You cannot train the uncertainty out of a security guard facing a possible life threatening situation. Imagine it, your tasked with prevent terrorism and confronted with a person wearing what might be a bomb. You have a gun but its hardly the upper hand, but if the possible bomb is detonated you will most likely be caught up in the blast along with every one else. A fist sized block of C4 makes a very large explosion! If its packed in with nails and bits of metal its damage radius increases significantly. Potentially, a person with a suicide vest in an airport could kill and injure a lot of people.

So, your a security guard and your facing this possibility, but your also facing the possibility that the 'terrorist' is an lefty civilian who just refuses to cooperate with 'the Man'. You have scant seconds to react if its a terrorist, every move the person makes could be arming or triggering a bomb. What do you do? Think about their 'rights' or err on the side of caution, shoot first and ask questions later?

Airport security is not an exact science and the fact remains that you cannot close all the holes. It simply cannot be done without turning into a real police state where all movement is state controlled. Even then the security system can be subverted by a dedicated mind. Reporters who go out of their way to score cheap points by publicly exposing such holes may be doing their jobs, but they are also helping educate the terrorists. Bin Laden watches CNN.

Oh, and '60 minutes'? rolleyes.gif I don't wish to be all superior or anything, but those guys did a piece on Denmark last year during the mo'toons thing and they couldn't have painted a more biased picture if they'd be working for Al Qaeda. I hope you take such reporting with a strong dose of scepticism!

AuthorMusician
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep 21 2007, 02:18 PM) *
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Sep 21 2007, 02:09 PM) *
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?

Under the current law, yes. We're becoming a police state rapidly due to fear of an electronic circuit board with flashing lights and a 9-volt battery worn on the outside of clothing, as anyone knows that's how terrorists blow things up. Not by cell phone, no no no.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?

That's pretty obvious in this case. There's a law about wearing a fake device? Just what the heck is a fake device? Is it one that doesn't work? This one works. Or a device that doesn't work for its intended purpose? This one does.

Heh, I like the playdough thing about being plastic explosives. I guess they smell the same, huh? Playdough reeks! I do think you need wires in the plastic explosives too, you know, to detonate them?

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?

I think she'll get off on this one, both legally and in the humor of it.

BTW, Star is an MIT electrical engineering student, not art. She sees art in the circuits more than most other people. It would have been interesting had the counter worker asked about the pretty flashing lights instead of making grand assumptions.

I saw a little girl wearing sneakers with flashing lights a few days ago. OMG, call the Marines!

Yeah, we're getting paranoid, irrationally so. But I suppose the whole thing is a work of art to Star, and that's why she cooperated so well with the authorities. Next up, The Trial. Anybody read Camus' The Stranger?

And when you look at this stunt, it's pretty brilliant. I mean, part of it is to bring up extreme reactions, and that's what's happening on this board. Maybe she's stupid to pull this off -- but then maybe she's not. MIT, you know? Not exactly the town's voc-ed school.

Your response is really rather flip. It makes me think your don't have to travel using airports much. You can't play around in airports anymore, not that you ever really could, but now it's worse.

She could have gotten herself killed or worse, gotten an innocent bystander killed. This wasn't pretty lights, it was designed to look like a bomb. She knew what she was doing.

On the plus side at least this isn't another Police Brutality/Tazer thread.


Actually, sarcastic. Flip would be to demand the death sentence for her horrible crime of upsetting people with an exposed circuit board that has LEDs winking away, as in flipped out.

The Stranger is about a guy who gets thrown into the slammer for failing to cry at his mother's funeral. There's the sarcasm. It's the dangerous non sequitur in the human condition.

Tell me, what does a bomb look like? Can you define that? Does it look like a shoe? Does it have LED numbers? Does it look like a bowling ball with a fuse? A pipe? A suitcase? A car or truck? Maybe it looks like a broach on a little old lady's dress. Or a cane. Maybe a hat. Maybe a bat. Could be a cat -- in a hat.

The bottom line is that you don't know. Real bombs are not seen until they go off, unless security is really doing its job.

I see this as similar to Bong Hits for Jesus. If you understand the language, that phrase is meaningless. However, due to the extreme paranoia in this country, the issue goes to the Supreme Court. That is absurd.

So is going ape-willies over a circuit board and playdough. I can hear the inquisition now -- do you realize how this circuit board affects people?

Uh, no. It's a circuit board, similar to what you have in that cell phone, yer honor. Is electronic nudity now a crime? Is it that the mysterious thing there is some kind of threat because it's weird? Overstressed resistors can pop loudly, I know that from electronics classes. You need more than a 9V battery to do it.

What makes you think this is a bomb? Why not that guy over there with the attaché case? That's more likely. Should airport security be moved to the entrance road? Maybe that'd make more sense. Maybe cars should be restricted from the terminal area, allow only shuttles. That makes sense. Lots of bombs are in cars. Seems to be a favorite thing among terrorists.

This, no matter how you slice it, does not make sense. It's an overreaction from unthinking people who fear just about everything.

I'm all for airport security. I'd like to feel more secure when in one, but it doesn't seem like people can grasp what to do about it. Now that's scary. Along with the crashing thing too. I also hate to fly. I'm not too crazy about driving in traffic either. However, circuit boards don't scare me, especially one like this. I can see what it's meant for right off.

Cell phones are a different story. Bombs have been set off using those things. But you see, they have become a common sight, where exposed circuit boards are not. They really flip people out.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Sep 22 2007, 06:02 AM) *
Tell me, what does a bomb look like? Can you define that? Does it look like a shoe? Does it have LED numbers? Does it look like a bowling ball with a fuse? A pipe? A suitcase? A car or truck? Maybe it looks like a broach on a little old lady's dress. Or a cane. Maybe a hat. Maybe a bat. Could be a cat -- in a hat.


University of Oklahoma student accidentally/suicidally/who knows...Blew himself up at a stadium last year.
QUOTE
Mauldin, head of the Norman bomb unit, said investigators detonated at the scene the remains of Hinrichs' backpack, which contained wires, a battery and a circuit board.


Wearing this type of thing on your back, at an airport, isn't clever. Yes, sometimes bombs look like shoes. If a flight attendant hadn't seen a shoe smoking in the middle of a flight years ago, that shoe would have detonated and the parts of the plane and all of those people would have disappeared over the ocean we likely would have never known how or why. "Shoe bomber" is a joke now only because it didn't happen. Now we have to all take off our shoes before boarding flights because a moron tried to blow a plane up that way.

This is a circuit board worn on a person's back. How was anyone supposed to know what this person's intentions were? Tomorrow I'll try some "performance art" at the airport and simply yell 'guess if this is a bomb!' and see how that pans out for me. I trust (if I'm alive) we can then talk about how my speech freedom is impedded at the airport. wacko.gif
BaphometsAdvocate
You know what, in a park, on campus this is a cute way to start conversations. At an airport, it's clucking stupid.
CruisingRam
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 22 2007, 04:21 AM) *
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Sep 22 2007, 06:02 AM) *
Tell me, what does a bomb look like? Can you define that? Does it look like a shoe? Does it have LED numbers? Does it look like a bowling ball with a fuse? A pipe? A suitcase? A car or truck? Maybe it looks like a broach on a little old lady's dress. Or a cane. Maybe a hat. Maybe a bat. Could be a cat -- in a hat.


University of Oklahoma student accidentally/suicidally/who knows...Blew himself up at a stadium last year.
QUOTE
Mauldin, head of the Norman bomb unit, said investigators detonated at the scene the remains of Hinrichs' backpack, which contained wires, a battery and a circuit board.


Wearing this type of thing on your back, at an airport, isn't clever. Yes, sometimes bombs look like shoes. If a flight attendant hadn't seen a shoe smoking in the middle of a flight years ago, that shoe would have detonated and the parts of the plane and all of those people would have disappeared over the ocean we likely would have never known how or why. "Shoe bomber" is a joke now only because it didn't happen. Now we have to all take off our shoes before boarding flights because another moron tried to (really) blow a plane up that way.

This is a circuit board worn on a person's back. How was anyone supposed to know what this moron's intentions were? Tomorrow I'll try some "performance art" at the airport and simply yell 'guess if this is a bomb!' and see how that pans out for me. I trust (if I'm alive) we can then talk about how my speech freedom is impedded at the airport. wacko.gif


I will qualify my next statement with my belief that this girl is a total retard, and definately deserves some lifestyle-harming punishment for her stupidity, just short of actually completely ruining her life- there needs to be consequences for her other than the fodder of late night talk show hosts, short of jail though-

but, now that I have seen pictures of this, both on the TV news and stills- I don't see how anyone could possibly thing that circuit board is part of a bomb, nor the batter, nor the playdough- it was a reach, for sure.
Especially the SIZE of the circuit board- man, that is a throw back of the 60s or something?
Aquilla
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 22 2007, 01:17 PM) *
now that I have seen pictures of this, both on the TV news and stills- I don't see how anyone could possibly thing that circuit board is part of a bomb, nor the batter, nor the playdough- it was a reach, for sure.
Especially the SIZE of the circuit board- man, that is a throw back of the 60s or something?



Actually it is, or at least the early 70's. It's really not a "circuit board" per se, but rather something we used to call a "Super Strip". It's used for prototyping circuits and it's quite a lot of fun to use if one is in to that sort of thing. Each of the little holes has a spring loaded contact that's on a bus that connects all the other contacts on the row from the groove to the outer edge of the strip. You just plug a chip in across the groove and connect things to make stuff happen. Hooking up a bunch of LEDs and making them flash is hardly cutting edge technology or particularly creative or difficult - would take about 2 minutes at most, so I'm not sure who this person thought she would impress with this thing.


Aquilla
CruisingRam
QUOTE(Aquilla @ Sep 22 2007, 12:34 PM) *
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 22 2007, 01:17 PM) *
now that I have seen pictures of this, both on the TV news and stills- I don't see how anyone could possibly thing that circuit board is part of a bomb, nor the batter, nor the playdough- it was a reach, for sure.
Especially the SIZE of the circuit board- man, that is a throw back of the 60s or something?



Actually it is, or at least the early 70's. It's really not a "circuit board" per se, but rather something we used to call a "Super Strip". It's used for prototyping circuits and it's quite a lot of fun to use if one is in to that sort of thing. Each of the little holes has a spring loaded contact that's on a bus that connects all the other contacts on the row from the groove to the outer edge of the strip. You just plug a chip in across the groove and connect things to make stuff happen. Hooking up a bunch of LEDs and making them flash is hardly cutting edge technology or particularly creative or difficult - would take about 2 minutes at most, so I'm not sure who this person thought she would impress with this thing.


Aquilla


Which would be a polite/politicallly correct way to phrase "OMG, what a freakin' retard?"
BaphometsAdvocate
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 22 2007, 04:39 PM) *
QUOTE(Aquilla @ Sep 22 2007, 12:34 PM) *
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 22 2007, 01:17 PM) *
now that I have seen pictures of this, both on the TV news and stills- I don't see how anyone could possibly thing that circuit board is part of a bomb, nor the batter, nor the playdough- it was a reach, for sure.
Especially the SIZE of the circuit board- man, that is a throw back of the 60s or something?



Actually it is, or at least the early 70's. It's really not a "circuit board" per se, but rather something we used to call a "Super Strip". It's used for prototyping circuits and it's quite a lot of fun to use if one is in to that sort of thing. Each of the little holes has a spring loaded contact that's on a bus that connects all the other contacts on the row from the groove to the outer edge of the strip. You just plug a chip in across the groove and connect things to make stuff happen. Hooking up a bunch of LEDs and making them flash is hardly cutting edge technology or particularly creative or difficult - would take about 2 minutes at most, so I'm not sure who this person thought she would impress with this thing.


Aquilla


Which would be a polite/politicallly correct way to phrase "OMG, what a freakin' retard?"

In all fairness to the artfully inclined retard that thing, with Play-Doh, looks like every made for TV bomb you've ever seen. Wait, who's the retard again? The MIT girl, the woman at the counter or the poor SOB dating the Lite-Brite wearing Harpo Marx look-a-like?
Macura
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep 21 2007, 12:38 PM) *
QUOTE
(WBZ) BOSTON An MIT student with a fake bomb strapped to her chest -- later claiming it was art -- was arrested at gunpoint Friday at Logan International Airport, officials said.

Star Simpson, 19, had a computer circuit board and wiring in plain view over a black hooded sweat shirt she was wearing, said State Police Maj. Scott Pare, the commanding officer at the airport.

"She said that it was a piece of art and she wanted to stand out on career day," Pare said at a news conference. "She claims that it was just art, and that she was proud of the art and she wanted to display it."


Star dear, it's 2007, and not that it was ever OK to bring a fake bomb to an airport... you're lucky you're still alive! The police would have had complete justification in shooting you dead for this stunt. Wasn't it just last year that a few 'Lite-Brite' ads caused panic in the Boston area?

Questions for debate:

Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?


Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?


What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?



1. The police would not in any way be justified for shooting this woman. Lethal force is only justified when confronting an ACTUAL threat. As she was merely a perceived threat the police should not be shooting first and asking questions later. Even if she turned around and ran for the street they would not hae been justified in using lethal force. Fear is not justification for killing.

2. Fear is making us less safe as citizens in that it has created a bunker mentality. The comments on here that she should have known better to mess around in an airport are indication of this mentality. She did nothing wrong, she did not come into the airport screaming "I have a bomb!" or anything. She calmly walked up to a worker, asked about the status of an incoming flight, after being questioned, not by security but by a ticket agent, she answered that her board was artwork, then she calmly left. But due to the fear of the airport workers she was accosted, interrogated, and then when it was found that her artwork was in no way a bomb, she was arrested and charged with a hoax device. Well, to be a hoax you have to have been trying to convince someone that that device was something it wasn't, namely a bomb. As she never claimed it to be an explosive device, and when asked about it said quite clearly it was not an explosive device, I don't see where the hoax part comes in. If I walk into an airport with an alarm clock ticking away in my suitcase and some frightened security guard thinks it may be a bomb, am I to be charged with a hoax device as well? Pure overreaction on the airport security's part.

3. I would like to see her given a public apology and have the charges dropped. But I'm sure that will not be the case as we must forever justify out increasing police state nature by showing the terrorists are everywhere. Hmm..wonder why only the airports are so heavily guarded, why not train and bus stations and ports?
BoF
QUOTE(Macura @ Sep 22 2007, 04:54 PM) *
3. I would like to see her given a public apology and have the charges dropped. But I'm sure that will not be the case as we must forever justify out increasing police state nature by showing the terrorists are everywhere. Hmm..wonder why only the airports are so heavily guarded, why not train and bus stations and ports?


Great post Macura. I agree about the "bunker mentality." It seems pervasive in almost all of American life. I’ll be sixty-five next week. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life in this type environment.

My guess is that this will be plea bargained and she will receive something like a fine, probation, community service or a combination of those things.

MIT should be coming to her defense.

BTW: I can see the artistic statement a circuit board might make. My CPA has had a number of hard disk failures over the years. I've considered encasing one in casting plastic and giving it to him with the inscription - crash! It is part of the modern world and art should reflect such.
Curmudgeon
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?

No! My training as an electrician tells me that a suicide bomber could walk into an airport with a normally closed / held open (NC/HO) detonating device in his hand. If the police shot first and asked questions later, they would risk the bomber releasing the switch and detonating the bomb.
Bikerdad
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?
Justified at the time based solely on the limited information they had, or justified in hindsight? As for the former, maybe. In hindsight, heck no.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?
No, its just making us more annoyed.

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?
None, save the embarrassment. It will be incumbent upon the prosecution to prove that the shirt is a hoax device. Me, I don't think it is.

Much has been made here at ad.gif about Simpson's lack of intelligence, yet nobody seems to have a clue as to why. Well, curiously enough, Star Simpson's travails are front page news where I'm at currently, so I can fill y'all in somewhat. Note that anything I venture regarding her state of mind itself is pure speculation on my part, but the biographical info is straight off the front page.

Star Simpson is a graduate of Hawaii Prepatory Academy, where she pulled down a 4.0+ GPA. HPA is a private, independent college prep school located in one of the wealthiest areas on the island of Hawaii. She was also an accomplished competitive swimmer, holding numerous school records, in a state where the two women's sports are volleyball and swimming.

So, let's add it up. She's a preppie by heritage, a jock by culture and a MIT geek. She's from the state that gave Dennis Kucinich a big chunk of its delegates in '04, where the ACLU is working to get a teacher's contract overturned because of mandatory drug testing, and where geothermal power was considered to be too destructive to the environment. Oh, and she's only 19 to boot.

It all adds up to if she thought about the hoodie at all, she likely said to herself "screw it, I've got my right to express myself!"
BaphometsAdvocate
QUOTE(Macura @ Sep 22 2007, 05:54 PM) *
3. I would like to see her given a public apology and have the charges dropped. But I'm sure that will not be the case as we must forever justify out increasing police state nature by showing the terrorists are everywhere. Hmm..wonder why only the airports are so heavily guarded, why not train and bus stations and ports?

Have you been to a train or bus station? I have.

Port Authority (NYC) - Armed Military, lots of Cops? Check
Penn Station (NYC) - Check
Grand Central Station (NYC) - Check
NYC MTA - Check
30th Street Station (PA) - Check
Union Station (DC) - Check
Chicago Loop - Check
O'Hare Blue Line - Check
Midway (Chi) - Check
BART (SF) - Check

They're covered.

And let's not forget hijacking a train is pretty stupid. I know where you're going.

And BD I think most people think Star is smart, just has no common sense. You DO NOT go to an airport with a pretend bomb.
Ted
QUOTE
but, now that I have seen pictures of this, both on the TV news and stills- I don't see how anyone could possibly thing that circuit board is part of a bomb, nor the batter, nor the playdough- it was a reach, for sure.
Especially the SIZE of the circuit board- man, that is a throw back of the 60s or something?



What she had on her chest was a prototype board with some chips on it. Certainly we don’t pay the copes to be able to discern what an engineer could not (without close examination) – which was – the function of the circuit other than blinking lights if – if any. A few chips could certainly control an explosive device (wired or wireless) and I am willing to bet most people who got close to this idiot would have been concerned.

So IMO the cops did not “overreact” they did exactly what we pay them to do which is locate and hold threats quickly. This does not make us a “police state” and to think this is ludicrous.

Needless to say if this girl was a suicide bomber surrounded by cops that would no doubt have paid the ultimate price in the line of duty. Or if she was a threat and the police did not apprehend her quickly and people died – they would be the first ones blamed.

She needs to be punished severely enough to prevent others, who think this stupidity was amusing, from repeating this stunt.
ShadowHalo
QUOTE(Ted @ Sep 24 2007, 03:02 PM) *
What she had on her chest was a prototype board with some chips on it. Certainly we don’t pay the copes to be able to discern what an engineer could not (without close examination) – which was – the function of the circuit other than blinking lights if – if any. A few chips could certainly control an explosive device (wired or wireless) and I am willing to bet most people who got close to this idiot would have been concerned.

So IMO the cops did not “overreact” they did exactly what we pay them to do which is locate and hold threats quickly. This does not make us a “police state” and to think this is ludicrous.

Needless to say if this girl was a suicide bomber surrounded by cops that would no doubt have paid the ultimate price in the line of duty. Or if she was a threat and the police did not apprehend her quickly and people died – they would be the first ones blamed.

She needs to be punished severely enough to prevent others, who think this stupidity was amusing, from repeating this stunt.

There were no chips on the board. Everything there looks to be a resistor or diode: http://images.salon.com/tech/machinist/blo...mpson/story.jpg It doesn't require close examination from an engineer to be able to tell that there's nothing there that could detonate anything. The police responded quickly when called, for which I am glad; however, the fact that they were called in the first place doesn't exactly comfort me much about how well our airport personnel have been trained to identify a bomb. I have a blinking pen with more technology in it than she had on her shirt. Severely punishing her to turn her into a scapegoat is not productive at all; not only does it send a message that we still don't know how to train airport security, but it sends the message that not being paranoid when we set foot in a *gasp* airport is now illegal.

QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Sep 23 2007, 01:13 AM) *
Do you think the Police would have been justified in shooting Star Simpson if she had not cooperated with their directions?
Justified at the time based solely on the limited information they had, or justified in hindsight? As for the former, maybe. In hindsight, heck no.

Do you think that the level of fear, especially in airports, is making US citizens less safe?
No, its just making us more annoyed.

What sort of penalty would you like to see Star face?
None, save the embarrassment. It will be incumbent upon the prosecution to prove that the shirt is a hoax device. Me, I don't think it is.

Much has been made here at ad.gif about Simpson's lack of intelligence, yet nobody seems to have a clue as to why. Well, curiously enough, Star Simpson's travails are front page news where I'm at currently, so I can fill y'all in somewhat. Note that anything I venture regarding her state of mind itself is pure speculation on my part, but the biographical info is straight off the front page.

Star Simpson is a graduate of Hawaii Prepatory Academy, where she pulled down a 4.0+ GPA. HPA is a private, independent college prep school located in one of the wealthiest areas on the island of Hawaii. She was also an accomplished competitive swimmer, holding numerous school records, in a state where the two women's sports are volleyball and swimming.

So, let's add it up. She's a preppie by heritage, a jock by culture and a MIT geek. She's from the state that gave Dennis Kucinich a big chunk of its delegates in '04, where the ACLU is working to get a teacher's contract overturned because of mandatory drug testing, and where geothermal power was considered to be too destructive to the environment. Oh, and she's only 19 to boot.

It all adds up to if she thought about the hoodie at all, she likely said to herself "screw it, I've got my right to express myself!"

You're forgetting her surroundings. She lives near MIT and is surrounded by other people who share the belief in self-expression through creativity with electronics, computers, and science. If you've ever been to MIT, you'll likely note that nobody cares if you wear something like that. In fact, it's quite possible that she had been wearing the device for most of that week since the MIT Career Fair's website says that there were events starting on Tuesday. For better or worse, I really doubt that she gave entering the airport without having to change her outfit a second thought.
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