Full Version: Study shows racism cause of infant mortality
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/20099.html
Black infant mortality is a complicated puzzle that includes poverty, poor nutrition, inadequate prenatal care, teen pregnancy, heredity, high blood pressure, stress, obesity, low birth weights and prematurity. However, some neonatologists and child health advocates have pushed for more research to get behind the social reasons why these factors seem to take a higher toll on African-American infants than they do on other babies.
For the 600 black women in Atlanta who participated in a related study on the effects of racial discrimination on health, the reasons for their higher stress levels ranged from hearing white teachers comment on "those kids" to working extra long hours to win acceptance from white colleagues.
"The pregnancy scares the life out of me because I am pregnant with a baby boy, and I know how black boys are treated in this society," one study participant told researchers from Spelman College and Emory University in Atlanta.
Do you think the study is valid- it has been published in two seperate peer reviewed journals?
Black infant mortality is a complicated puzzle that includes poverty, poor nutrition, inadequate prenatal care, teen pregnancy, heredity, high blood pressure, stress, obesity, low birth weights and prematurity. However, some neonatologists and child health advocates have pushed for more research to get behind the social reasons why these factors seem to take a higher toll on African-American infants than they do on other babies.
For the 600 black women in Atlanta who participated in a related study on the effects of racial discrimination on health, the reasons for their higher stress levels ranged from hearing white teachers comment on "those kids" to working extra long hours to win acceptance from white colleagues.
"The pregnancy scares the life out of me because I am pregnant with a baby boy, and I know how black boys are treated in this society," one study participant told researchers from Spelman College and Emory University in Atlanta.
Do you think the study is valid- it has been published in two seperate peer reviewed journals?
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 30 2007, 12:55 AM) 
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/20099.html
Black infant mortality is a complicated puzzle that includes poverty, poor nutrition, inadequate prenatal care, teen pregnancy, heredity, high blood pressure, stress, obesity, low birth weights and prematurity. However, some neonatologists and child health advocates have pushed for more research to get behind the social reasons why these factors seem to take a higher toll on African-American infants than they do on other babies.
For the 600 black women in Atlanta who participated in a related study on the effects of racial discrimination on health, the reasons for their higher stress levels ranged from hearing white teachers comment on "those kids" to working extra long hours to win acceptance from white colleagues.
"The pregnancy scares the life out of me because I am pregnant with a baby boy, and I know how black boys are treated in this society," one study participant told researchers from Spelman College and Emory University in Atlanta.
Do you think the study is valid- it has been published in two seperate peer reviewed journals?
Black infant mortality is a complicated puzzle that includes poverty, poor nutrition, inadequate prenatal care, teen pregnancy, heredity, high blood pressure, stress, obesity, low birth weights and prematurity. However, some neonatologists and child health advocates have pushed for more research to get behind the social reasons why these factors seem to take a higher toll on African-American infants than they do on other babies.
For the 600 black women in Atlanta who participated in a related study on the effects of racial discrimination on health, the reasons for their higher stress levels ranged from hearing white teachers comment on "those kids" to working extra long hours to win acceptance from white colleagues.
"The pregnancy scares the life out of me because I am pregnant with a baby boy, and I know how black boys are treated in this society," one study participant told researchers from Spelman College and Emory University in Atlanta.
Do you think the study is valid- it has been published in two seperate peer reviewed journals?
Well, it's not clear from the article whether stress from racism causes infant mortality - I believe that to be an overstretch. There were many other factors listed that are also accepted as contributing variables in the higher incidence of black infant mortality. It does stand to reason though that if a black woman perceives racism and this racism produces inordinate levels of anxiety/frustration/stress then we should expect to find complications with successfully carrying a baby to full-term.
Call me dubious. I don't doubt that racism is a factor in poverty, crime, substance abuse, ect, and those things in turn affect a pregnancy. I do have doubts that the stress of the racism, in and of itself, causes dire problems for pregnancy, and I don't believe the evidence in this article is convincing. The actual report itself might be, but it would have to include some things that were excluded in the link.
The question I’d like to see answered here is ‘how much more likely?’ Obviously the above factors have a huge effect on the potential outcome of a pregnancy, from issues of nutrition to prenatal care to substance abuse, and the article goes on to state as much below:
Well, yes, I’d say that the prevalence of liquor (if imbibed), high crime and fast food would have a deleterious effect on pregnancy, but the quoted first paragraph seems to discount that. Here, apparently, they are making the claim that the presence of the fast food restaurants and liquor, ect, induces more stress on black women living in those areas than other races living in those areas…and the stress disparity is so significant that it leads to premature delivery. I’m not sure I believe that white women living in high crime, impoverished areas in bad school districts are under significantly less stress than black women under the same conditions.
It would sure help if we had some earthly idea of what those aforementioned rates were. We know that infant mortality rates are much higher in Africa than here. The researcher didn’t indicate where these immigrants are coming from or whether the rates were better or worse before they arrived in America. Overall, the infant mortality rates (if memory serves) are better in Canada and Europe, but we don’t know how that breaks down along racial lines…another piece of information which is necessary to assess the validity of this study.
I’d hazard a guess that the largest reason behind the disparity is poverty, followed by pre-existing health problems or medical conditions, followed by multiple births, which aren’t addressed here.
10-40 per 1000 births is a significantly higher statistic than 7-10. I'm rather curious why this disparity was not addressed in the study.
QUOTE
Over the past few years, several researchers have published studies in the American Journal of Public Health and the New England Journal of Medicine that examine this issue. The researchers found that whether rich or poor, well-educated or barely literate, African-American women were still more likely than white women, first-generation, poor Hispanic immigrant women and foreign-born black women to have premature and low birth-weight babies.
The question I’d like to see answered here is ‘how much more likely?’ Obviously the above factors have a huge effect on the potential outcome of a pregnancy, from issues of nutrition to prenatal care to substance abuse, and the article goes on to state as much below:
QUOTE
In his research, Lu and his colleagues found that the disproportionately higher number of fast-food restaurants and liquor stores, lower number of grocery stores and the higher cost of fresh produce in many urban, predominately black communities caused poorer pregnant black women to make stressful choices about what to eat and where to live. So did the higher crime rates in these communities and worries about sending children to poorly equipped, understaffed schools.
Well, yes, I’d say that the prevalence of liquor (if imbibed), high crime and fast food would have a deleterious effect on pregnancy, but the quoted first paragraph seems to discount that. Here, apparently, they are making the claim that the presence of the fast food restaurants and liquor, ect, induces more stress on black women living in those areas than other races living in those areas…and the stress disparity is so significant that it leads to premature delivery. I’m not sure I believe that white women living in high crime, impoverished areas in bad school districts are under significantly less stress than black women under the same conditions.
QUOTE
In his research, Lu also found that when foreign-born black women had been in the United States for a generation they showed the same infant mortality rates as American-born black women.
It would sure help if we had some earthly idea of what those aforementioned rates were. We know that infant mortality rates are much higher in Africa than here. The researcher didn’t indicate where these immigrants are coming from or whether the rates were better or worse before they arrived in America. Overall, the infant mortality rates (if memory serves) are better in Canada and Europe, but we don’t know how that breaks down along racial lines…another piece of information which is necessary to assess the validity of this study.
I’d hazard a guess that the largest reason behind the disparity is poverty, followed by pre-existing health problems or medical conditions, followed by multiple births, which aren’t addressed here.
QUOTE
The birth rate of dizygotic twinning is highest for African Americans (10-40 per 1000 births), followed by Caucasians (7-10 per 1000 births) and Asian Americans (3 per 1000 births).
*snip*
Mortality/Morbidity: Multifetal pregnancies are high-risk pregnancies. The fetal mortality rate for twins is 4 times the fetal mortality rate for single births. The neonatal mortality rate for twins is 6 times more than the neonatal mortality rate for single births.
*snip*
Mortality/Morbidity: Multifetal pregnancies are high-risk pregnancies. The fetal mortality rate for twins is 4 times the fetal mortality rate for single births. The neonatal mortality rate for twins is 6 times more than the neonatal mortality rate for single births.
10-40 per 1000 births is a significantly higher statistic than 7-10. I'm rather curious why this disparity was not addressed in the study.
Mrs P- to answer your first question:
Over the past few years, several researchers have published studies in the American Journal of Public Health and the New England Journal of Medicine that examine this issue. The researchers found that whether rich or poor, well-educated or barely literate, African-American women were still more likely than white women, first-generation, poor Hispanic immigrant women and foreign-born black women to have premature and low birth-weight babies.
The question I’d like to see answered here is ‘how much more likely?’ Obviously the above factors have a huge effect on the potential outcome of a pregnancy, from issues of nutrition to prenatal care to substance abuse, and the article goes on to state as much below:
The answer is "twice as likely" as shown in the graph- for all other groups, the infant mortality rate was 5.8 per thousand, the African-American 13.8 per thousand.
Also- the racism angle was explored because it cut across socio-economic groups of African Americans- the number remained constant despite education and good neighborhoods for black females that were born in America.
If it were simply liquor and cigarettes and poverty- the white women in similar situations would stand to reason, would have similar infant mortality rates- but they don't- in fact, rich black women from mixed or suburban nieghborhoods have the same infant mortality rates as those living in poverty.
I am sorry I can not cut and paste from those Journals- they are subscription per article, and I can only access them in my college library. but they do call out those points in the McClatchy article.
From the article as well- I will bold the relevent parts:
"For many years, the operating theory in the health community has been that the high incidence of infant deaths among African-Americans is attributed to higher teen pregnancy rates, single motherhood, lower education levels, poverty and, most recently, genetic causes," said Ronald David, a physician, professor and co-author of the Joint Centers' recent research on infant mortality. "However, we found that infant mortality for blacks remained high even when all these factors were controlled."
Over the past few years, several researchers have published studies in the American Journal of Public Health and the New England Journal of Medicine that examine this issue. The researchers found that whether rich or poor, well-educated or barely literate, African-American women were still more likely than white women, first-generation, poor Hispanic immigrant women and foreign-born black women to have premature and low birth-weight babies.
The question I’d like to see answered here is ‘how much more likely?’ Obviously the above factors have a huge effect on the potential outcome of a pregnancy, from issues of nutrition to prenatal care to substance abuse, and the article goes on to state as much below:
The answer is "twice as likely" as shown in the graph- for all other groups, the infant mortality rate was 5.8 per thousand, the African-American 13.8 per thousand.
Also- the racism angle was explored because it cut across socio-economic groups of African Americans- the number remained constant despite education and good neighborhoods for black females that were born in America.
If it were simply liquor and cigarettes and poverty- the white women in similar situations would stand to reason, would have similar infant mortality rates- but they don't- in fact, rich black women from mixed or suburban nieghborhoods have the same infant mortality rates as those living in poverty.
I am sorry I can not cut and paste from those Journals- they are subscription per article, and I can only access them in my college library. but they do call out those points in the McClatchy article.
From the article as well- I will bold the relevent parts:
"For many years, the operating theory in the health community has been that the high incidence of infant deaths among African-Americans is attributed to higher teen pregnancy rates, single motherhood, lower education levels, poverty and, most recently, genetic causes," said Ronald David, a physician, professor and co-author of the Joint Centers' recent research on infant mortality. "However, we found that infant mortality for blacks remained high even when all these factors were controlled."
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 30 2007, 11:56 AM)
Mrs P- to answer your first question:
Over the past few years, several researchers have published studies in the American Journal of Public Health and the New England Journal of Medicine that examine this issue. The researchers found that whether rich or poor, well-educated or barely literate, African-American women were still more likely than white women, first-generation, poor Hispanic immigrant women and foreign-born black women to have premature and low birth-weight babies.
The question I’d like to see answered here is ‘how much more likely?’ Obviously the above factors have a huge effect on the potential outcome of a pregnancy, from issues of nutrition to prenatal care to substance abuse, and the article goes on to state as much below:
The answer is "twice as likely" as shown in the graph- for all other groups, the infant mortality rate was 5.8 per thousand, the African-American 13.8 per thousand.
Over the past few years, several researchers have published studies in the American Journal of Public Health and the New England Journal of Medicine that examine this issue. The researchers found that whether rich or poor, well-educated or barely literate, African-American women were still more likely than white women, first-generation, poor Hispanic immigrant women and foreign-born black women to have premature and low birth-weight babies.
The question I’d like to see answered here is ‘how much more likely?’ Obviously the above factors have a huge effect on the potential outcome of a pregnancy, from issues of nutrition to prenatal care to substance abuse, and the article goes on to state as much below:
The answer is "twice as likely" as shown in the graph- for all other groups, the infant mortality rate was 5.8 per thousand, the African-American 13.8 per thousand.
Not according to what I read on that link. The answer is 'twice as likely' for the general OVERALL population statistics, not specifically impoverished areas. The article goes on to say that published studies eliminated the disparity and black infant mortality rates were still higher. Again, my question is how much higher? Not necessarily twice as high or even close when those things are eliminated.
QUOTE
Also- the racism angle was explored because it cut across socio-economic groups of African Americans- the number remained constant despite education and good neighborhoods for black females that were born in America.
If it were simply liquor and cigarettes and poverty- the white women in similar situations would stand to reason, would have similar infant mortality rates- but they don't- in fact, rich black women from mixed or suburban nieghborhoods have the same infant mortality rates as those living in poverty.
I honestly find it very very hard to believe that rich black women have the same infant mortality rates as those living in poverty. If that is the case, we should really get to the bottom of why single motherhood, poor nutrition, substance abuse, lack of prenatal care do not effect black fetuses as they would anyone else. Call me skeptical of that claim. If it were simply liquor and cigarettes and poverty- the white women in similar situations would stand to reason, would have similar infant mortality rates- but they don't- in fact, rich black women from mixed or suburban nieghborhoods have the same infant mortality rates as those living in poverty.
QUOTE
"For many years, the operating theory in the health community has been that the high incidence of infant deaths among African-Americans is attributed to higher teen pregnancy rates, single motherhood, lower education levels, poverty and, most recently, genetic causes," said Ronald David, a physician, professor and co-author of the Joint Centers' recent research on infant mortality. "However, we found that infant mortality for blacks remained high even when all these factors were controlled."
The above says the rates "remained high". It doesn't say that they are the same, or necessarily even close. Could the fact that black women are four times more likely to have multiple births, and that multiple births have a six fold higher infant mortality rate factor into this somehow? Seems to me it would....
Mrs P- are you having issues with the methodology or the conclusions or both?
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 30 2007, 03:02 PM)
Mrs P- are you having issues with the methodology or the conclusions or both?
There isn't enough insight given in the article about the methodology to form any judgement about the study's conclusions.
All we know from this is that black women have higher incidences of infant mortality than other races, in the US. First, I would have to know if this is the case in other countries as well, as that in itself would undermine this study unless the phenomenon of racism-stress-induced infant mortality is world wide.
Alternately, I would have to know exactly what the disparity is between those black mothers and white mothers of the exact same socioeconomic class, living under exactly the same conditions. It isn't valid to say "rich black women still have higher rates of infant mortality than rich white women so the reason must be racism". We have to first know how much of a disparity rich-to-rich, poor-to-poor in order to form any basis for judging the conclusions (and again, racial statistics for births overseas would help a lot as well....I looked and was unable to find any). Determining the disparity when those other factors are eliminated, we could then investigate the number of multiple birth cases and the relationship to infant mortality.
As I said above, I suspect that the ratio of multiple births is the cause of the disparity rather than stress-induced racism. I find it strange, obvious as it is, that this particular factor was not taken into consideration at all in the study. Let's put it this way, if 40 out of every 1000 black mothers give birth to twins while 10 out of every 1000 white mothers give birth to twins, and infant twins have six times the mortality rate of single births....couldn't that be the real elephant in the room?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
Ugh- I HATE journals sometimes when trying to post original source material for debate- it is nearly impossible to present it here, as the journals are SO into making you pay for each article
Here is what the studies say, as far as the ones I am allowed to read from subscriptions from work:
Stress is the leading indicator for pre-term births - in a sample of around 35k women, black women, no matter which economic strata they inhabit, have nearly double or more infant mortality and pre-term delivery.
American black women report much higher levels of stress than all other ethnic groups. They say it is the effects of racism that cause thier stress.
So, stress from percieved racism= higher infant mortality rate.
Pub-med is a clearing house for journals- I was able to get on to a couple studies that were peer reviewed and thier methodology was designed to take out genetic variables (such as multiple births) and socio-economic variables (such as being poor and living in a poor nieghborhood) .
what is interesting to me is the fact that hte OB-GYN community started doing these studies because THEY noticed the disparity.
Ugh- I HATE journals sometimes when trying to post original source material for debate- it is nearly impossible to present it here, as the journals are SO into making you pay for each article
Here is what the studies say, as far as the ones I am allowed to read from subscriptions from work:
Stress is the leading indicator for pre-term births - in a sample of around 35k women, black women, no matter which economic strata they inhabit, have nearly double or more infant mortality and pre-term delivery.
American black women report much higher levels of stress than all other ethnic groups. They say it is the effects of racism that cause thier stress.
So, stress from percieved racism= higher infant mortality rate.
Pub-med is a clearing house for journals- I was able to get on to a couple studies that were peer reviewed and thier methodology was designed to take out genetic variables (such as multiple births) and socio-economic variables (such as being poor and living in a poor nieghborhood) .
what is interesting to me is the fact that hte OB-GYN community started doing these studies because THEY noticed the disparity.
This reeks of a study proving a preconception.
I have this unsubstantiated idea now all I need are some spurious facts to back it up.
The entire premise is shakey at best. What you have presented to the debate doesn't particularly back it up. Mostly it leaves us with more questions.
I have this unsubstantiated idea now all I need are some spurious facts to back it up.
The entire premise is shakey at best. What you have presented to the debate doesn't particularly back it up. Mostly it leaves us with more questions.
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Sep 30 2007, 05:41 PM)
This reeks of a study proving a preconception.
I have this unsubstantiated idea now all I need are some spurious facts to back it up.
The entire premise is shakey at best. What you have presented to the debate doesn't particularly back it up. Mostly it leaves us with more questions.
I have this unsubstantiated idea now all I need are some spurious facts to back it up.
The entire premise is shakey at best. What you have presented to the debate doesn't particularly back it up. Mostly it leaves us with more questions.
Hey- I gave you the link to the original source material- all you have to do is pay for the article or go to your local college library to check it out. I find no holes in their methodology- one of the reasons is that they don't say "this person experianced racism" it is because they are very clear to say "the stress from PERCIEVED racism"- in other words- the stressors from our society- the PERCIEVED need to work twice as hard as whites in the workplace or some such comments.
Fact #1
Blacks, regardless of socio-economic factors, have a much higher infant mortality rate than all other ethnic groups in America. As a comparison- African immigrants don't have this problem- but thier children do. Those born of African immigrants have thier infant mortality rates jump right up there with the rest of non-african born blacks.
To be honest BA- I would like more study into this as well- but this is the conclusion of more than one study- it is several studies- and, on top of that- they went by the "instructions to authors" in peer-reviewed journals- in other words- someone can do a study to disprove that study using the same methodology- and come to different conclusons.
Doesn't seem to have happened yet. Really- I thought you know something about science and it's methods?
But I do think the studies are not conclusive- but they certainly point in that direction at this time.
Do you think the study is valid- it has been published in two seperate peer reviewed journals?
Is the study valid? No, although it may be fairly well constructed, but nothing presented addresses the subject of actual racism. Self-reporting is a notoriously bad foundation for objective science. Stressing over imaginary monsters is just as harmful as stressing over real ones.
Is the topic valid? No, because the topic title omits a huge modifier in the study's conclusion.
"perceived"
Partly in jest, but also partly to illustrate the potential problem here, is a riff on the classic rejoinder for paranoids:
"Just because you think everybody is out to get you, doesn't mean that they are, or aren't?"
Is the study valid? No, although it may be fairly well constructed, but nothing presented addresses the subject of actual racism. Self-reporting is a notoriously bad foundation for objective science. Stressing over imaginary monsters is just as harmful as stressing over real ones.
Is the topic valid? No, because the topic title omits a huge modifier in the study's conclusion.
"perceived"
Partly in jest, but also partly to illustrate the potential problem here, is a riff on the classic rejoinder for paranoids:
"Just because you think everybody is out to get you, doesn't mean that they are, or aren't?"
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