Full Version: Farrakhan's Latest Speech
QUOTE
In a rare public appearance, Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan urged black Americans to separate from mainstream culture to establish and support their own community
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He warned the crowd not to be distracted by the successes of recent decades
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In addition to racial disparities, violence committed against blacks at the hands of other blacks is also a threat — and one that did not exist during the struggle for civil rights, Farrakhan said.
"I want to talk to my gang-banging family," he said. "You make it very difficult for me. In the '60s we knew who the enemy was. But in 2007 you are the enemy. How can I do what is right by you while I watch you do wrong by one another?"
High-profile examples of success like Oprah Winfrey, Sen. Barack Obama, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice give blacks a false impression of success, Farrakhan said.
As a result, middle class black America has gotten too comfortable with the trappings of the American dream, he told the approving audience.
--
He warned the crowd not to be distracted by the successes of recent decades
--
In addition to racial disparities, violence committed against blacks at the hands of other blacks is also a threat — and one that did not exist during the struggle for civil rights, Farrakhan said.
"I want to talk to my gang-banging family," he said. "You make it very difficult for me. In the '60s we knew who the enemy was. But in 2007 you are the enemy. How can I do what is right by you while I watch you do wrong by one another?"
High-profile examples of success like Oprah Winfrey, Sen. Barack Obama, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice give blacks a false impression of success, Farrakhan said.
As a result, middle class black America has gotten too comfortable with the trappings of the American dream, he told the approving audience.
Questions for debate:
1) Are Farrakhan's ideas still valid? How?
2) Should black Americans ignore the successes of recent decades? Why?
3) Are black Americans living under a false impression of success? How?
4) In regards to black on black crime what should black Americans do to stop this destructive cycle?
5) Why shouldn't black Americans embrace the middle class American dream?
6) Should Farakhan go back to resting from his illness and stop speaking in public?
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Oct 17 2007, 09:35 AM) 
QUOTE
In a rare public appearance, Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan urged black Americans to separate from mainstream culture to establish and support their own community
--
He warned the crowd not to be distracted by the successes of recent decades
--
In addition to racial disparities, violence committed against blacks at the hands of other blacks is also a threat — and one that did not exist during the struggle for civil rights, Farrakhan said.
"I want to talk to my gang-banging family," he said. "You make it very difficult for me. In the '60s we knew who the enemy was. But in 2007 you are the enemy. How can I do what is right by you while I watch you do wrong by one another?"
High-profile examples of success like Oprah Winfrey, Sen. Barack Obama, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice give blacks a false impression of success, Farrakhan said.
As a result, middle class black America has gotten too comfortable with the trappings of the American dream, he told the approving audience.
--
He warned the crowd not to be distracted by the successes of recent decades
--
In addition to racial disparities, violence committed against blacks at the hands of other blacks is also a threat — and one that did not exist during the struggle for civil rights, Farrakhan said.
"I want to talk to my gang-banging family," he said. "You make it very difficult for me. In the '60s we knew who the enemy was. But in 2007 you are the enemy. How can I do what is right by you while I watch you do wrong by one another?"
High-profile examples of success like Oprah Winfrey, Sen. Barack Obama, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice give blacks a false impression of success, Farrakhan said.
As a result, middle class black America has gotten too comfortable with the trappings of the American dream, he told the approving audience.
Questions for debate:
1) Are Farrakhan's ideas still valid? How?
2) Should black Americans ignore the successes of recent decades? Why?
3) Are black Americans living under a false impression of success? How?
4) In regards to black on black crime what should black Americans do to stop this destructive cycle?
5) Why shouldn't black Americans embrace the middle class American dream?
6) Should Farakhan go back to resting from his illness and stop speaking in public?
The validity of his ideas is subjective. On one hand, I applaud him for motivating people to not rely on society to bring them up out of poverty and to do it themselves. In the article you referenced, he never blamed the white man or the system. He simply said that the black community needs to stop accepting the black on black murders, the fact that since a few blacks have become very successful is not a reason to rejoice without more following. As far as whether or not Farakhan resting and not speaking, I would hate to see that happen, especially when he makes speeches like this. He is not making excuses or finding blame outside of the issue. He is motivating a segment of this country that is in a desperate cycle that needs to be broken, and he is asking that segment to do it from within. Nothing wrong with that at all. I will admit that he has made some outrageous speeches that in my opinion caused more harm than good, but thanks to the First Ammendment, he can speak his mind when and where he wants.
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 17 2007, 11:11 AM)
The validity of his ideas is subjective. On one hand, I applaud him for motivating people to not rely on society to bring them up out of poverty and to do it themselves. In the article you referenced, he never blamed the white man or the system. He simply said that the black community needs to stop accepting the black on black murders, the fact that since a few blacks have become very successful is not a reason to rejoice without more following. As far as whether or not Farakhan resting and not speaking, I would hate to see that happen, especially when he makes speeches like this. He is not making excuses or finding blame outside of the issue. He is motivating a segment of this country that is in a desperate cycle that needs to be broken, and he is asking that segment to do it from within. Nothing wrong with that at all. I will admit that he has made some outrageous speeches that in my opinion caused more harm than good, but thanks to the First Ammendment, he can speak his mind when and where he wants.
Well that is certainly one reading of his speech.
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Oct 17 2007, 10:17 AM)
Well that is certainly one reading of his speech.
What is your take?
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 17 2007, 11:35 AM)
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Oct 17 2007, 10:17 AM)
Well that is certainly one reading of his speech.
What is your take?
Farrakhan is calling for black Americans to spearate from the mainstream, reject the middle class version of the American dream, reject blacks who have attained some level of notoriety and reject the advances made against racism in the past decades. The fact that he is denouncing gang-bangers (the people not the act Mrs. Pigpen
) is certainly welcome but ultimately a little too late coming from this man.
QUOTE
Questions for debate:
1) Are Farrakhan's ideas still valid? How?
2) Should black Americans ignore the successes of recent decades? Why?
3) Are black Americans living under a false impression of success? How?
4) In regards to black on black crime what should black Americans do to stop this destructive cycle?
5) Why shouldn't black Americans embrace the middle class American dream?
6) Should Farakhan go back to resting from his illness and stop speaking in public?
1) Are Farrakhan's ideas still valid? How?
2) Should black Americans ignore the successes of recent decades? Why?
3) Are black Americans living under a false impression of success? How?
4) In regards to black on black crime what should black Americans do to stop this destructive cycle?
5) Why shouldn't black Americans embrace the middle class American dream?
6) Should Farakhan go back to resting from his illness and stop speaking in public?
1) Not now; not ever. If separate but equal was not okay for whites, it is not okay for blacks, either consitutionally or practically.
2) No; to do so is to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Stupid.
3) No; I do not have any numbers to back this up, but I would strongly suspect black families in the USA live much better than black families in African nations, or in any other major country.
4) Stop it; only blacks can stop black crime. When blacks make a cultural statement that crime of any kind, be it against each other, whites or anyone else, is unacceptable, then it will stop. Nothing else will make a dent. The hip-hop culture today glamorizes crime, and many black politicians I know seem to live by the motto, "You whites got yours, now we are going to get ours--by any means". Any wonder crime thrives in the black community?
5) They should embrace it. With any luck, in 20 years, we truly will be "one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." That should be our goal--a separate and disparate nation is weak and bound for failure.
6) Yes.
Has anyone ever noticed how whatever Farrakhan says is far more interesting to those who already hate him?
Everyone else is mostly indifferent.
I for one could be pressed to care less, with the threat of bodily harm...
The questions are.... leading?
No... they're already there man.
Black America doesn't hate success, and plans to declare war on peace and happinesses have been indefinitely postponed.
Everyone else is mostly indifferent.
I for one could be pressed to care less, with the threat of bodily harm...
The questions are.... leading?
No... they're already there man.
Black America doesn't hate success, and plans to declare war on peace and happinesses have been indefinitely postponed.
QUOTE(turnea @ Oct 17 2007, 12:34 PM)
Has anyone ever noticed how whatever Farrakhan says is far more interesting to those who already hate him?
Farrakhan == Coulter - degrees
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Oct 17 2007, 11:15 AM)
Farrakhan is calling for black Americans to spearate from the mainstream, reject the middle class version of the American dream, reject blacks who have attained some level of notoriety and reject the advances made against racism in the past decades. The fact that he is denouncing gang-bangers (the people not the act Mrs. Pigpen ) is certainly welcome but ultimately a little too late coming from this man.
) is certainly welcome but ultimately a little too late coming from this man.I would not agree that he is calling for blacks to reject blacks who have attained some level of notoriety. I think he was pointing out that many use people like Oprah and Rice as examples of how the black community has succeded, and though to an extent that is true, many blacks still go through the cycle of crime and poverty. I don't think the fact that many black families continue in that cycle is the cycle's fault, but the families; I think this is what Farrakhan is getting at. Is it too late for this man to denounce violence and gangs? I don't think it is ever too late, just watch the next episode if he follows up with anything that might be more true to his typical ideology.
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 17 2007, 12:51 PM)
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Oct 17 2007, 11:15 AM)
Farrakhan is calling for black Americans to spearate from the mainstream, reject the middle class version of the American dream, reject blacks who have attained some level of notoriety and reject the advances made against racism in the past decades. The fact that he is denouncing gang-bangers (the people not the act Mrs. Pigpen ) is certainly welcome but ultimately a little too late coming from this man.
) is certainly welcome but ultimately a little too late coming from this man.I would not agree that he is calling for blacks to reject blacks who have attained some level of notoriety. I think he was pointing out that many use people like Oprah and Rice as examples of how the black community has succeded, and though to an extent that is true, many blacks still go through the cycle of crime and poverty. I don't think the fact that many black families continue in that cycle is the cycle's fault, but the families; I think this is what Farrakhan is getting at. Is it too late for this man to denounce violence and gangs? I don't think it is ever too late, just watch the next episode if he follows up with anything that might be more true to his typical ideology.
I read:
High-profile examples of success like Oprah Winfrey, Sen. Barack Obama, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice give blacks a false impression of success, Farrakhan said.
Do not use these people as successes. They do not represent the norm.
and this:
As a result, middle class black America has gotten too comfortable with the trappings of the American dream, he told the approving audience.
as - Don't believe in the American dream even if you're already living it.
QUOTE(turnea @ Oct 17 2007, 12:34 PM)
Has anyone ever noticed how whatever Farrakhan says is far more interesting to those who already hate him?
Everyone else is mostly indifferent.
Everyone else is mostly indifferent.
I am not indifferent to anyone who commands significant economic and political power in this nation. They can adversely affect my life; therefore, I am not indifferent.
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Oct 17 2007, 11:57 AM)
I read:
High-profile examples of success like Oprah Winfrey, Sen. Barack Obama, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice give blacks a false impression of success, Farrakhan said.
Do not use these people as successes. They do not represent the norm.
and this:
As a result, middle class black America has gotten too comfortable with the trappings of the American dream, he told the approving audience.
as - Don't believe in the American dream even if you're already living it.
High-profile examples of success like Oprah Winfrey, Sen. Barack Obama, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice give blacks a false impression of success, Farrakhan said.
Do not use these people as successes. They do not represent the norm.
and this:
As a result, middle class black America has gotten too comfortable with the trappings of the American dream, he told the approving audience.
as - Don't believe in the American dream even if you're already living it.
You are right that those listed don't represent the norm. The average black American can't go out and buy and island like Oprah can.
As far as the second statement, I take it as meaning that many view blacks in middle class as success and the American Dream. I think he was charging them to continue to rise up and reach higher. Settling for middle class is not succeeding, there needs to be more Oprahs, Rices, and Powells.
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 17 2007, 08:11 AM)
Questions for debate:
1) Are Farrakhan's ideas still valid? How?
2) Should black Americans ignore the successes of recent decades? Why?
3) Are black Americans living under a false impression of success? How?
4) In regards to black on black crime what should black Americans do to stop this destructive cycle?
5) Why shouldn't black Americans embrace the middle class American dream?
6) Should Farakhan go back to resting from his illness and stop speaking in public?
1) Are Farrakhan's ideas still valid? How?
2) Should black Americans ignore the successes of recent decades? Why?
3) Are black Americans living under a false impression of success? How?
4) In regards to black on black crime what should black Americans do to stop this destructive cycle?
5) Why shouldn't black Americans embrace the middle class American dream?
6) Should Farakhan go back to resting from his illness and stop speaking in public?
1. The idea that people should continually attempt to better themselves through the generations and in spite of hardships is a valid idea, but Farrakhan didn't think it up.
2. Should white Americans ignore the failures of recent decades? Farrakhan is still working from an us versus them mentality, which isn't healthy in the long run. All Americans should seek to succeed.
3. I'm not sure what this even means. Paris Hilton is "successful," so I don't have to work hard?
4. A good individual step might be raising your children to disassociate themselves from media-driven culture. Some people seem to think that because they are from a certain place, or have a certain ancestry, that the best they can hope for is the least-negative stereotype.
5. I got nothing. I guess that they should embrace it to the extent that it will ultimately lead towards greater success.
6. That's up to him, though I don't think he's adding anything new to the debate, or offering any solutions.
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