I have been seeing for years women pedophiles exploit young boys- a recent case here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071104/ap_on_..._student_search

I personally know of two cases, one where a 27 year old woman has 4 different children by four different fathers UNDER 15 when they fathered these children- and, instead of throwing her butt in jail- they make the boys pay child support!

Another is a woman that had sex with a 13 year old boy here locally- she is 25, he too has to pay child support!

Now, I know that anyone on this board is aware of what would happen if a man fathered a child by a 13 year old girl- yet women pedophiles are not only NOT prosecuted on the whole, NO resources are being used to track them down, unless they make really big news (like the story linked above)- there is no website like "perverted justice" making these women pedophiles humilitated and outed to the public, there is very, very rare prosecution when caught- and usually, the boys are made to pay for any children from the tryst.

so why is this?

Questions:

1) Why is American culture so blind to women pedophiles?

2) Why does the justice system continue to victimize the young men when the pedophile is caught?

3) why aren't more resources and more outrage being generated over these women?

CR, I think you and I are in agreement on this topic. For some reason, it is more acceptable in our society for an adult woman to have sex with a young boy, but the reverse is reprehensible. I think we all know what my position is on children being raped. I think any adult that takes advantage of a child and rapes them should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. As far as the children paying child support goes, I am not sure how that can even happen since it was my understanding that child support was based on income brought in by the one paying the support. Is a 13 year old making enough money to have to pay support? It just doesn't make any sense to have a 13 year old child pay child support.

I don't have any facts here and could not find many references to this, but that does raise an interesting point. I would assume that since a 13 year old cannot be legally employed(although getting paid under the table is pretty common, I started working at 14), that the parents of the 13 year old would have to pay the child support. However, how is that child support calculated? Based on the parent's income vs the mother's? And is it both parent's income, or the highest salary of the two?

Both women are on welfare.

Because of confidentiality, I can not give further details, but I do know these cases for a straight up first person knowledge.

It outraged everyone involved, believe me.

Part of the way s how they went for the money-you see, the women did not pursue paternity until they passed 15 years old. Apparently- that is some kind of magic number.

Part of the way s how they went for the money-you see, the women did not pursue paternity until they passed 15 years old. Apparently- that is some kind of magic number.
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I'm no expert here, but I believe that paternity debts (whether paid or unpaid) accumulate until the child is 18 yrs old and remain without statute of limitations. Had I fathered a child at 13, then I would be liable for court ordered payments for the next 18 years. So it doesn't matter that the 13 yr old is making no money. The debt stays until his dying day, and court judgments can be levied at any time. The money he couldn't pay at 13, he pays when he's 50. Seems wrong to me, paying for your rape.

Yes, it's sexist. IMO we still have this culture where a young boy "gets laid" and a young girl gets "misled/manipulated/Svengali-ed" etc.

I'm not sure that I'm as much outraged as I am disgusted.

It's easy to say that when an adult male impregnates someone, he knew the risks, he didn't take any precautions, and child support is his way of contributing to the livelihood of the child. The statutory rape of a 13 year old boy muddies this whole thing. I guess one could argue that by 13, you would have had some form of sex education in most states, if not all. However I find it disheartening that before you're 18, you cannot vote, buy cigarettes, enter into a legal contract, join the military(without emancipation), yet you're required to pay child support to the person that raped you. I can't imagine having an 18 year old child at the age of 31(only a year and two weeks away for me). I hope they at least have visitation rights after school.....

On the other hand, and I'm just kind of typing out loud here, forgive me, we throw the word "rape" around pretty liberally these days. Rape can include anything from actual violent, forced rape, to saying "no" after having sex for an hour, to two willing participants, one being under the age of 18(or 17 depending on the state). I have no doubt that these boys we've been talking about were very willing. I lost my virginity at the age of 14 to a 16 year old. The thought of having an "older woman" was pretty much the ultimate fantasy back then for me. Which is also why it may be hard to get convictions against women who have committed statutory rape. Though, it doesn't make it right.

We live in a world of many double standards. My cousin, who is coming home from Iraq, and will be visiting us for Christmas this year, has not seen his daughter in almost four years. His ex-wife disappeared with his daughter while he was in Iraq and has no way to contact her. His only form of contact is that he deposits $425 a month into his ex-wife's bank account through the internet. Hopefully he won't be redeployed again for a while so he can find a way to find his daughter. If a man were to take off with his kid and the mother didn't know where he went, there would be outrage and the police would be on a man-hunt. It makes me sick that with so many dead-beat dads out there that don't want anything to do with their kids, this little girl has a father that loves her more than anything in the world, and God only knows what her mother has told her why she can't see her dad.

There is no doubt that statutory rape isn't the only area our judicial system is biased towards the woman. We could list known areas women get better treatment than men, but that would take too long. You make a good point about having sex education by the age of 13, but that should be applied to both boys and girls.

1) Why is American culture so blind to women pedophiles?

2) Why does the justice system continue to victimize the young men when the pedophile is caught?

3) why aren't more resources and more outrage being generated over these women?

I'll bundle the three together - I think all these things happen because of the position of men in patriarchal societies (which almost every major civilisation running now falls under) and the position in women in post-feminist societies (which almost every industrialised democracy falls under - it isn't just America where male victims of female paedophilia are largley ignored).

First off, it isn't about the gender of the victim. Male or female child (i.e. pre-pubescent) victims of male paedophiles are treated mostly sympathetically in the public imagination.

And, almost across the board, male or female abusers of such pre-pubsecent children are condemned. I'm thinking of the opprobrium in which known women child abusers or child murderers - British examples of which would include Myra Hindley and Rose West. (I'm afraid I don't know any American examples. ) Such women are, if anything more reviled than their male counterparts.

So what we're talking about here ( I think) are differences in attitudes towards male and female abusers of adolescents.

Here, I'd say it is a comparatively new idea that this is a bad thing in either gender. Historically, the age of consent in girls, at least, was set closer towards puberty (and often somewhat below it, for some girls/women). It still is in some jurisdictions, even within the USA.

Perhaps, as better nutrition has caused puberty to start progressively earlier in successive generations, the idea of men having sex with teenaged girls has come to be seen as tawdry, distasteful, and have become illegal in many places and in many circumstances. Even here, circumstance is key - imagine a man who sleeps with a woman he meets in a bar "in good faith", if the expression holds, who turns out to have been under not only the legal drinking age but just 14 years old. Now imagine a man who is a teacher and seduces one of his 14-year-old students. Which one is likely to be let off or, if convicted, to get a lighter sentence?

You don't have to answer that because we all know the teacher would have the book thrown at him - abuse of power and a trust relationship, yadda yadda - and the barfly would be let off or just punished far more lightly - she was dressed up to the nines, nobody could have told the difference, she knew what she was doing, and all that sort of guff. Neither girl is old enough to give consent, so it should not matter, but we all know it would.

Why?

And now if we think about a male 14 year old who is seduced by his female teacher, what is our first instinct as men? I suspect it's much less "That poor kid - he is the victim of a terrible breach of trust and of unspeakable abuses" and much more "That lucky little expletive deleted. When I was 14, I would have given my right arm to lose my cherry to Mrs Jones the French teacher. What has he got to complain about?"

Why?

I think it all boils down to our societal (as opposed to individual) attitudes to sex and gender - we all think in archetypes.

These are arrant nonsense when you consider them, but they are very pervasive notions in our attitudes to sex.

Even today, in rape cases, juries will acquit an accused rapist even if they believe the actual intercourse took place, and was against the will of the alleged victim (even though that's what rape is) if the defence can cast the female rape victim as some sort of loose woman - she wore a short skirt, flirted, engaged in heavy petting, etc. then decided she didn't want to have sex. Of course, this means she isn't the pure unblemished woman of societal myth/archetype. But the man is randy by now, so it's - the story goes - only natural for him to just have to fulfil his urges so unrighteously inflamed by the wanton behaviour of the [b]rape victim!![b].

They also underly attitudes to paedolphilia - children are all victims (they are, but the denial that they might be willing, if not legally consenting, participants is anathema to us, so we insist they must be victims even though they might conceivably have liked and enjoyed what they were doing, leading to some very confused individuals who are disproportionately likely to grow up to be abusers themselves).

Female adolescents are all pure of heart and mind and must be victims - they cannot give consent, even though they might be in love and might enjoy the sex itself - and the "predatory" men - in what other context do we use that word about people except male paedophiles? - who abuse them are corrupt beyond redemption to the point where they are hated even by "proper" criminals like murderers and rapists (of adult women - somehow they don't seem to be beaten or murdered by jail inmates very often - why is that, if not that they are just extreme examples of the male archetype we all buy into?).

And a male adolescent is seen as less adolescent and more male - so he's one in the "relationship" (with his teacher or the women he picks up, or is picked up by, in bars though underage) who is living up to his archetype. Therefore the woman must be living up to hers, to a greater or lesser degree, so she can't be the active initiator. And even if she is, the penis-driven teenage male victim should be grateful for living out the fantasy that stems from the archetype and if he claims victim status he's not only failing to live up to the archtype, but he's undermining it for everyone else.

All that said - the archetpyes I've mentioned do have some aspects of trurth in them, which is what gives them their power. I would say that, while the archetypes are behind the unequal treatment of women paedophiles (which acts in their favour) and rape victims (where they go massively against them), it is fairly obvious, and likely, that there are just many many fewer female sexual abusers than there are male ones. (Not least because women buy into these societal archtypes every bit as much a men do.)

Julian- maybe in England there are far more male abusers- unfortunately, it is hard to tell, because the male victims are not counted as victims.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/strip...p-9312346c.html

Here is a more sane archetype- women commit crimes usually through manipulation, men commit crimes mostly through violence overt or threatened (when we are talking about physical crimes- not "white collar" crimes or drug possession crimes) - for instance, we just got a conviction on a female con artist and murderer named Michelle Lineham- I will edit this post a little later and post the particular links- she never actually used the gun to kill they guy she wanted killed- she manipulated others to do it for her.



I would say there are nearly as many female sexual predators of children as there are male- but the women are not punished for this, nor are there reliable data collected for thier behaviors.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50447

I hate to use world net daily- I think they are really a right wing blogger site- but the info is correct as far as I can tell- I was a bit lazy and just did a google search to highlight how many women pedophiles there are out there.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50447

Some of the cases involving women have been collected by WND, including:

Adrianne Hockett: Accused of having sex with a 16-year-old special-needs student in a Houston apartment she rented for the get-togethers. The boy has testified the pair would "have sex, drink beer and smoke weed."

Amber Jennings, 31: Though Jennings was initially charged with having sex with a 16-year-old, the counts against the Sturbridge, Mass., woman were reduced to a single charge of disseminating harmful materials to a minor. She reportedly admitted e-mailing naked photos of herself to a former student.

Amber Marshall, 23: Northwest Indiana woman allegedly had sexual contact, including intercourse, with several students at Hebron High School, and turned herself into authorities, telling police she knew what she did was illegal.

Amira Sa'Di, 30: Clayton County, Ga., woman remarked she didn't think her relationship was inappropriate based on her Internet research, learning the Peach State's age of consent is 16.

Amy Gail Lilley, 36: Inverness, Fla., woman and softball coach at Lecanto High School charged with a lesbian relationship with a 15-year-old girl. She received no prison time, being sentenced to two years of house arrest and eight more years of probation.


Angela Comer

Angela Comer, 26: Middle-school teacher from Tompkinsville, Ky., fled with her alleged lover, her 14-year-old male student, before being tracked down in Mexico where she reportedly planned to marry the boy. She was indicted for illegal sex acts with a minor and returned to Kentucky. Charges include felony custodial interference, two counts of third-degree sodomy and four counts of unlawful transaction with a minor relating to sexual acts.

Angela Stellwag, 24: Delran, N.J., woman accused of having sex in her apartment with a 14-year-old boy she met in school. She was charged with sexual assault for activity that allegedly took place in August 2004.

Beth Raymond, 31: Private-school employee from Pownal, Maine, charged with risk of injury to a minor and second-degree sexual assault of a juvenile male at Eagle Hill School in Greenwich, Conn.

Bethany Sherrill, 24: Daughter-in-law of school-board president charged with molesting a 15-year-old middle-school student. Reports state Sherill allegedly had oral sex with the boy and sent him coded text messages. She resigned her position at Jefferson Elementary School in Farmington, Mo.


Cameo Patch

Cameo Patch, 29: Substitute teacher at Tooele High School in Tooele, Utah, arrested for allegedly performing oral sex on a 17-year-old male student. The sexual activity was allegedly consensual, and reportedly took place off school grounds after the pair had exchanged phone numbers in a restaurant.


Carol Flannigan

Carol Flannigan, 50: Boca Raton, Fla., music teacher reportedly slept with 11-year-old former student, and also had a simultaneous sexual relationship with the boy's father. In a deposition, the boy's father said he had the same sort of sexual relationship with Flannigan that ex-President Bill Clinton had with Monica Lewinsky. In February 2006, Flannigan was sentenced to five years prison as part of a plea deal.


Cathy Heminghaus

Cathy Heminghaus, 46: Special-education teacher from Ferguson, Mo., charged with statutory sodomy involving at least three of her students at Ferguson Middle School. She reportedly told friends she had performed oral sex on the children on several occasions.

Celeste Emerick, 32: Police in Huber Heights, Ohio, say the Wayne High School teacher hosted a party where students were shown pornography. Prosecutors charged her with one count of sexual battery, a felony in Ohio.

Christina Gallagher, 26: Jersey City, N.J., woman ordered to pay more than $1,000 in fines, sentenced to a lifetime registration as a convicted sex offender and ordered to attend therapy for having sex with a 17-year-old student in late 2004. The former Rahway High School instructor was banned from teaching and seeing the student with whom she had sex.

Christine Duda, 39: Teacher at the Normandy Alternative School in St. Louis County, Mo., allegedly took a 16-year-old male student to her home for sex in December 2005. She was charged with two counts of felony statutory rape and fired by the school district.

Christine Scarlett, 36: English teacher at Strongsville High School in Ohio began a sexual relationship with the 17-year-old captain of the football team, Steven Bradigan, in November 2002 and eventually gave birth to Bradigan's son. Scarlett was fired from her teaching job, but insists nothing improper happened during the time she was Bradigan's teacher. She was never charged with any criminal wrongdoing.


Deanna Bobo

Deanna Bobo, 37: Special-education teacher at Raymond E. Wells Junior High School in Greenwood, Ark., allegedly had sex twice with a 14-year-old boy in his own bed while his parents were not home. She has denied the charge, and has since been charged with assaulting a second boy.

Diane DeMartini-Scully, 45: Mattituck, N.Y., woman was the school psychologist at East Hampton Middle School on Long Island when she was accused of having sex with the 16-year-old boyfriend of her own 13-year-old daughter. She allegedly had intercourse and oral sex with the boy on a number of occasions in May 2005 in her home and car. She was arrested after allegedly secretly visiting her young paramour at his new home in North Carolina.

Donna Carr Galloway, 33: Married mother of two found naked in a car with a 17-year-old student.

Elisa Kawasaki, 25: Biology teacher from Fresno, Calif., area, pleaded no contest to sex with a teen boy, and prosecutors dropped four other counts.

Elizabeth Miklosovic, 36: Grand Rapids, Mich., teacher at South Haven's Baseline Middle School pleaded no contest to sexually assaulting a 14-year-old female student she "married" in a pagan ritual in June 2004. Miklosovic is also accused of touching the girl's genitals while camping in public parks.

Elizabeth Stow, 26: Tulare Western High School teacher from Fresno, Calif., area convicted of having sex with three of her students was sentenced to nine years, but the judge suspended that sentence and gave her one year, followed by five years of probation. She was also ordered to register as a sex offender.

Ellen Garfield, 43: Former student at Solomon Schecter School in Newton, Mass., said his music teacher took him into an empty classroom where she worked, partially disrobed, and coaxed him into having sex with her in 1998. Garfield was acquitted of all charges in September 2005.

Emily Morris, 28: Teacher at Leeds High School in St. Clair County, Ala., faced a possible 20-year sentence, but received one year in jail for having consensual sex with a 15-year-old student.

Erica Rutters, 29: Teacher at Oxford Christian Academy in New Oxford, Pa., allegedly wrote erotic messages to a 16-year-old student and had sexual intercourse with him four times in her apartment.

Georgianne Harrell, 24: Teacher at Holley Elementary School in Sylvester, Ga., charged with performing oral sex on a 9-year-old boy, allowing students to gaze down her blouse and slashing her wrists with glass in front of her students. She pleaded not guilty.

Gwen Ann Cardozo, 33: Teacher at Wasson High School in Colorado Springs, Colo., accused of having sex with a 17-year-old male student. Police charged her with sexual assault on a child by one in a position of trust, and Cardozo resigned her position in March 2005.

Heather Ingram, 30: Mathematics, science and business teacher at Chatelech Secondary School in Sechelt, British Columbia, had sex with a 17-year-old student. The relationship cost Ingram her job and reportedly led to the breakup of her 12-year common-law marriage to a man four years her senior.

Jacquelyn Faith Garrison, 19: Substitute teacher at South Central High School in Winterville, N.C., was indicted in January 2006 on charges she was having an improper relationship with a 15-year-old student. The case involves some 50 phone calls and text messages exchanged between Garrison and the boy, who reportedly became uncomfortable when things of a sexual nature came up.


Janelle Bird

Janelle Marie Bird, 24: Accused of having a two-year affair with a 15-year-old student from East Hill Christian School, in Pensacola, Fla. She was charged with two counts of lewd and lascivious battery and two counts of unlawful sexual activity with a minor.


Jaymee Wallace

Jaymee Wallace, 28: Basketball coach in Tampa, Fla., charged with having an 18-month lesbian relationship with a student. Authorities say the student, who was 15 when she met Wallace, voluntarily had sex with the coach more than 50 times, in a parking lot at Busch Gardens and often at Wallace's own apartment while a fellow classmate was in an adjacent room. According to the police report, the sexual relationship reportedly began in early 2003, after the student received a note from Wallace saying she "found her attractive and wanted to know if she felt the same way."

Joan Marie Sladky, 28: Redwood City, Calif., woman sentenced to six months in county jail for having sex with a 16-year-old student after pleading no contest to four counts of unlawful sexual intercourse, oral copulation and penetration with a foreign object. The Spanish teacher's relationship with the boy spanned six months, as she reportedly had sex with him once at his home and three times at her residence, which was on the property of the private Baptist church and school where she taught.

Katherine Tew, 30: Married English teacher from Greenville, N.C., arrested for having sex with a 17-year-old boy. She taught at South Central High School in Winterville, N.C., and was convicted of taking indecent liberties with a child, but found not guilty of the more serious sex charge. She was not given prison time, and lost her teaching license for at least two years.

Kathy White, 39: Teacher at Lumberton High School in Lumberton, Texas, charged with having sex with a 17-year-old student. The victim, Michael Ferguson, alleges: "She just started grabbing me and hormones were on and it just happened." Ferguson provided KBTV-TV with an e-mail allegedly sent by White, in which the teacher told him, "I get these cravings for YOU and that's not NORMAL! If I had it my way, I'd do you once a week just because it's good."

Kelly Lynn Dalecki, 28: Elementary-school teacher from St. Augustine, Fla., pleaded no contest to charges she had sex with a 13-year-old boy. The boy's parents reportedly found more than 50 sexually explicit e-mails and pornographic pictures allegedly sent by Dalecki on his computer.


Kristi Oakes

Kristi Dance Oakes, 32: Teacher allegedly had sex with a 16-year-old boy who was in her biology class the previous year. Oakes resigned from her post at Seymour High School in Sevierville, Tenn., and reportedly lost her home and even the job she took at a grocery store after resigning from the school system because of the charges.

Lakina Stutts, 40: School-bus driver admitted to cops she had sex with a 14-year-old student in her home and in a car outside the boy's home.

Laura-Anne Brownlee, 26: Former music mistress at a top private school in Belfast, N. Ireland, was sentenced on six charges of indecently assaulting a 15-year-old boy.

Laura Lynn Findlay, 30: Band teacher at Ricker Middle School in Buena Vista Township, Mich., charged with having sex with at least 5 students, one as young as 14.

Lynn Saunders, 38: A former basketball star at the College of Staten Island, the gym teacher at St. Paul's School in New Brighton, N.Y., was arrested in March 2005 for allegedly molesting a 12-year-old girl whose family she had befriended. Saunders admitted to touching the girl's breasts and genital area on several dates in February 2005. She received no jail time, only probation and registration as a sex offender. The family is now suing Saunders and the Archdiocese of New York, claiming the girl became suicidal and still suffers from "severe emotional shock, trauma, embarrassment, anxiety and other psychological injuries."


Margaret De Barraicua

Margaret De Barraicua, 30: Sacramento, Calif., area woman arrested after police found her having sex with a 16-year-old male student in her car while the woman's toddler was strapped into a seat in the back. She pleaded guilty to four felony counts of statutory rape and was sentenced a year in jail and five years formal probation.

Maria Saco, 28: Math teacher at Lincoln Middle School in Passaic, N.J., sentenced in 2005 to a year in jail for an intimate relationship with a teen student who was 14 when they first met. Saco reportedly gave the boy a key to her apartment.

Mary Kay Letourneau, 34: Des Moines, Wash., teacher did prison time after having sex with a sixth-grade student, Vili Fualaau, in 1996 and eventually had two children by him. She originally had Fualaau, in her second-grade class at Shorewood Elementary School in Burien, Wash. The couple has since married.

Melissa Michelle Deel, 32: Bristol, Tenn., teacher at Virginia Middle School pleaded guilty to crossing the state line into Virginia to have oral sex with a 13-year-old male student. As part of her plea agreement, Deel agreed never to profit from the crime, as well as have no contact with the boy and his family without court permission.

Michelle Kush, 29: Substitute teacher at Boone County High School in Florence, Ky., allegedly had sex with a 15-year-old boy several times during summer break. She was charged with two counts of rape and one sodomy count.

Nicola Prentice, 22: British woman from Sheffield, England, given a 12-month suspended jail sentence after she seduced a 16-year-old student and began a 19-month affair.


Nicole Barnhart

Nicole Andrea Barnhart, 35: Highlands Ranch, Colo., woman reportedly told police she loves the 16-year-old boy with whom she was having sex. A teacher at Ponderosa High School, she pleaded guilty to felony sexual assault on a child, resulting in a two-year prison sentence and a minimum of 10 years in a sex-offender probation program.


Nicole Long

Nicole Long, 29: English teacher at Ayersville High School in Ohio resigned her teaching post after being accused of raping a 17-year-old boy. She pleaded guilty in January 2005 to a charge of sexual battery, and was sentenced in March to three months in jail.

Nicole Pomerleau, 31: English teacher at Olympic High School in Charlotte, N.C., arrested in March 2004 for allegedly having a sexual relationship with her 16-year-old student. The age of consent in North Carolina is 16, but teachers having sex with students is an exception to the law.

Pamela Smart, 22: Media-services director at Winnacunnet High School in Hampton, N.H., had convinced her 15-year-old lover to murder her husband. She was arrested in 1993. The Nicole Kidman film "To Die For" is based on her story.

Pamela Turner, 27: Former model and beauty-pageant contestant also taught at Centertown Elementary School in McMinnville, Tenn. She was arrested in February 2005 for allegedly having a three-month sexual relationship with a 13-year-old boy. She resigned her teaching position and was charged with 15 counts of sexual battery and 13 counts of statutory rape.

Rachelle Vantucci, 32: Ex-substitute teacher from Geneseo, N.Y., admitted having sex with a 16-year-old boy she met at a local riding stable. After pleading guilty, Vantucci agreed to surrender her teaching license and register as a sex offender.

Rebecca Boicelli, 33: Redwood City, Calif., woman gave birth to a baby last year and DNA test results gave prosecutors enough evidence to prove the father is Boicelli's former student, who was 16 at the time of conception.

Rhianna Ellis, 24: Social-studies teacher at the High School for Health Professions and Human Services in Manhattan, N.Y., allegedly began a 10-month sexual relationship with an 17-year-old player on the school's basketball team, and reportedly gave birth to his baby. The teen boy even introduced Ellis to his parents, never indicating she was his teacher.

Robin Gialanella, 26: Teacher at Silver Bay Elementary School in Toms River, N.J., engaged in kissing, and inappropriate conduct and conversations with two sixth-grade boys, ages 11 and 12, in 2003 and 2004. She was sentenced to 364 days in jail with psychotherapy, must register as a sex offender, will be under lifetime supervision and must surrender her New Jersey teaching certificate.

Robin Winkis, 29: English teacher at Central York High School in York, Pa., allegedly had sex with a 17-year-old boy after giving him alcohol. Authorties accuse her of five alleged sex acts during October and November 2005.

Samantha Solomon, 29: Guidance counselor at the High School for Health Professions and Human Services in Manhattan, N.Y. was fired after school bosses learned she was having sex with a teenage boy. She denies the allegations, attributing them to rumors gone wild.

Sandra "Beth" Geisel, 42: English teacher at Christian Brothers Academy, an all-boys school in Albany, N.Y., allegedly had sex three times with a 16-year-old male student in May 2005, including once on school grounds in the football stadium's press box. Originally indicted in September for three counts of third degree rape, she pleaded guilty to a single count of rape and was sentenced to six months in jail, and ranked as a Level 1 sex offender, the lowest risk.

Shelley Allen, 35: Teacher's aide from Cherokee County, Texas, was arrested in June 2005. Allen was charged with sexual assault of a child and faces a possible 20 years behind bars.

Shelley White, 24: Geography teacher in Britain had been engaged to be married before she kissed a 15-year-old student on at least three occasions. She avoided jail, but received 12 months community service.


Sherry Brians

Sherry Brians, 41: Middle-school language-arts instructor in Buttonwillow, Calif., originally arrested in January 2006 on suspicion of engaging in lewd acts with a 12-year-old male student, a felony that involves sexual contact. She pleaded not guilty to two counts of annoying or molesting a child under 18.

Stephanie Burleson: Volleyball coach and teacher at Floresville High School in Texas six years ago, pleaded guilty to all charges for molesting a 16-year-old female student. She was sentenced to 10 years probation, and required to register as a sex offender.

Susan Eble, 35: Former teacher's aide is accused of having a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old boy.

Tara Lynn Crisp, 29: Police allege she had sex with a student at least three times beginning when he was 14.

Toni Lynn Woods, 37: Middle-school teacher in Braxton County, W.Va., confessed to having sexual intercourse with three juveniles a total of four times and oral sex with one of those juveniles and another juvenile a total of four times. She resigned and surrendered her teaching certificate.


Traci Tapp

Traci Tapp, 28: Gym teacher at Hammonton High School in New Jersey accused of sexual contact with three male students, including having sex in her home multiple times in one night with a 16-year-old. In January 2006, she avoided any jail or probation time by admitting inappropriate touching, but she lost her teaching license.


I emboldened one of the cases here, because someone on the "perverted justice" thread mentioned that "female pedophiles don't use the net as much, so maybe perverted justice just doesn't see the female predators" or some such complete nonsense.

It is nonsense, because in every case I have came up against- the computer was involved, heavily, just like in male pedophile grooming behaviors.

How many times have you heard the following remark in response to the women teacher sex stories:

"Jeez...where were these teachers when I was in school? Ha, ha, ha."

Now take that and apply it to the reverse situation: male teacher/female student. You're not going to hear any woman make that "joke".

The difference is known within all of us. It's not just in the law; it's something that's ingrained in us.

That being said, I do think it's wrong for anyone in an authority position to be having sex with a minor. It's funny how the women use the excuse of "being in love" with the student, like Mary Kay LeTourneau---if they love them so much, then why can't they wait until they're of legal age?

LOL-your post highlights that we still have a good degree of sexism regarding this issue. What's at work here is a big case of juvenile machismo where we can't possibly imagine a woman actually being in the position of power in a given situation. Rape is rape, and this is no exception. It requires the same degree of manipulation and enticing as any other rape situation would. We just don't call it that when the rapist is a reasonably attractive woman and culture at large, thinks it would be *cool* to be seduced by an older woman. You get that message in subtle ways, whether it's laughing at the whole Stiffler's mom scene or The Graduate. We just had a recent public case on this exact issue as a 25 year old female teacher took off with a 13 year old student to Mexico. The problem why this issue isn't taken seriously enough is due to cultural attitudes-which needs to change.

I agree with Jules and would add that part of our archetypes are based on economic models of power. Laws regulating sexual relationships between minors and adults became obsolete as women entered the workforce and were hired to fulfill nontraditional roles. With their position came the opportunity to exploit their relationship with minors, but we reluctantly let go of outdated dichotomies because of persistant biological differences (women are, generally speaking, not as strong as men and it's easier to tell when a boy is aroused).

I still don't understand what wo/men get out of a sexual relationship with minors, though, because I could hardly put up a good conversation when I was 15. They have to be risking their reputation and livelihood for some physical and/or emotional fulfillment they can't have with other adults. I think the issue of female sexual predators is overblown, however, because of the novelty.

BTW- I have yet to find a single male pedophile that didn't use that SAME pathetic excuse Dayna- in fact, I was perusing one article by Michael Kuehl, 2004

William F. Buckley reminisces about a dinner in Monaco with Prince Ranier and David Niven:
- and he was all about how stupid it was to even consider such a thing as female pedophillia.

He used the words "6'4" tall with a 10 inch penis that happens to be 16 or 17 and outwieghs the "pedophile" by 100 pounds can't possibly be a victim of sexual abuse.

Funny- I find it interesting he gives these females a 'pass" bassed on thier victims physical appearence and denial that they are victims.

I can't tell you how many man I have seen snared into a statuatory rape charge by underage females that dressed up and appeared to be over 21, and, in fact, I know of a 15 year old that had a fake ID and the man met her in a drinking establishment where he had a reasonable assumption that the girl was 21, and there is no way you could tell she was 15.

to me, this absolves him of any guilt, simply because he could and did reasonably expect this girl was 21.

Funny- her parents didn't see it this way- and pressed for statuatory rape charges against him, he was charged, but he did beat it in court.

Here is an interesting case in Alaska involving a teacher (part time teacher) that had sexual relations with a 17 year old WOMAN- and beat the charge because age of consent was 16 at the time, but we changed the law here, and even named it after him. The dude is a bit famous already, as a car magazine freelance writer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartlett_High...horage,_Alaska)

faced three felony criminal charges in August 1989 involving his sexual relationship with a 17-year-old Bartlett senior that could have sent him to prison for eight years.[9][10]

What you can't see, unfortunately, in this article, is the issue that the lead investigator and the person who took the 17 year old female's statement was a man named Jack Chapman, who married this woman the day she turned 18 (or shortly thereafter), and was forced out of the police department- though they both denied a sexual relationship, there was lots of evidence that they did, in fact, have sex while they were gathering a case against Satch Carlson for the same reason.

Any party that knows that woman, knows that she was extremely manipulative, big into using her not-inconsiderable looks and sexuality to con males around her into doing her bidding- including a seasoned cop on the force for over 15 years. Though the guy was a first class bastard anyway, that was pretty much universally despised by all who knew him, including myself.

There is an enormous double standard in law enforcement here- and kinda ties into the threads we see over race and law enforcement.

Women just don't get held as responsible for a heinous crime like men do, and juries are more inclined to buy the crocodile tears that the defendent was some kind of "victim of male abuse"- which caused her to commit the crime.

In fact, these claims are also entered into domestic violence and crime and punishment studies- with no real attempt to see if the woman was really in the situation they claimed to be in, or not.

As often as not, the woman is lying to get out of a longer jail sentence.

here is a case just making headlines up here of two women that robbed kids at gunpoint for thier halloween candy and iphone:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/story...p-9342276c.html

It appears that they are already gearing up for the "a man made me do it" defense.

I think the point that we've been trying to make is that not only are these women not being charged for the crimes, they're not even being "tattled" on. Thus, while that 3.5 percent of all single-perpetrator offenses is low, there's no way to get an accurate number.

Speaking of single-perpetrator offenses, I think it raises a good point about the difference between men and women. As was said before, women don't use force as a typical means of coercion, they use manipulation. So, my best guess is they play a bigger role in those non-single-perpetrator offenses.

Also Lesley- they don't make the numbers if they aren't charged in the first place- hmmm? Like my example with the women having sex with underage males- they don't figure in at all into that study- because they were never even charged with a crime.

My point is that it is under-prosecuted and under-reported, mostly because of societal double standard.- sorry for beating in Ataal's point- we posted near simulteaniously.

To make double standard stick you have to make a comparison. Find out how many male sexual predator cases either never go to trial or are plea bargained down so no jail time is involved and we'll start talking. I think you're going to lose. Underreported or not, I seriously doubt there are as many female sexual predators as male sexual predators. A larger male demographic will probably mean a higher percentage of male sexual predators who either don't serve time or don't face their accusers at all.

LaFave's case doesn't appear to have gone to trial because although the boy's father publicly complained the family lacked the willingness "to go through a public hearing, especially without guarantees television cameras would be kept out of the courtroom". The family's reluctance to pursue LaFave is nothing new.

Welcome to the world of sexual abuse victims. If you want stiffer penalties, if you want predators to serve hard time, you must risk the media circus and the humiliation of cross examination that comes with the trial with no guarantee the jury will convict the defendant.

Edit: There're plenty of studies showing over reporting of crime (more crime stories involving blacks than Hispanics, for example), but can a type of crime that is supposedly under-prosecuted be under-reported?

CR, you have a lot of Women Are Cheats/Liars/Bad type threads... just noticing.
Well for one as a culture this fantasy of the "Hot Teacher" is pretty well engrained to the point it is practically Apple Pie at this point. And lately... I mean seriously it's been like something out of Letters to Penthouse. I mean COME ON the married 24 year old, ex model, making it in the back of an SUV with the friend (cousin?) driving? PUHLEEZ that script was getting turned down as too unbelievable for a porno!

Then you have the fact that boys have always been seen as "grown up" physically far before girls. There's also less of a knee jerk reaction to protect a 13+ year old boy than a 13+ year old girl. So you have the hulking 15 year old and the 24 year old teacher from stripper central casting and yeah people are bound to give him an "atta boy" where the reverse would make our skin crawl.
It goes back to the boy as an immature man verses the woman as delicate flower hoping not to be gang raped. While neither is correct it is what it is. Having an underage male pay child support in what the law calls statutory rape is baffling.
It all goes back to what I wrote in question one. In some ways "we" want it to happen. Frankly speaking, find me a 15 year old boy who doesn't want to hear this woman say "You're so much bigger and better than my husband."

This is an astute observation, BA. Freddy "Boom Boom" Cannon, brought this to us in a popular song from 1964 called "Abigail Beecher."

http://www.rockabilly.nl/lyrics1/a0021.htm

The sexual innuendo is hard to miss. While the song did well in the mid-60's, it's hard to tell how it would play today.



Lesly also makes an astute observation. In his book Bad Boy from Rosebud, Louisiana native/Texas writer Gary Lavergne describes how Texas murderer Kenneth Allen McDuff kidnapped Colleen Reed from a carwash in Austin, Texas. Reed was a relatively small woman. McDuff, who stood 6’4” and had enormous hands, grabbed Reed from the front by the throat with one hand, pinned her hands behind her back with the other, and lifted her off the ground as he stuffed her in the back seat of his tan Thunderbird. McDuff later raped, sodomized, tortured with a burning cigarette, murdered and disposed of Reed's body.

Though a double standard exists, I find it hard to imagine a woman doing to a man, or even a healthy younger teen boy, what McDuff did to Reed.

Bof and BA= first off Bof- you are confusing strong arm rape with STATUATORY rape- in other words- the parties involved were all willing, no one neccesarily forced at the point of a gun or arms pinned back for sex- rather, the age of the "victim" is the idea that the victim CAN NOT form a consent, based on thier age, despite thier willingness to do so. ( I have been searching my local paper for a very good example of this- where the man went to jail after fathering a child by a 13 year old girl, I believe he was in his 30s, and after he got out of jail, she married him and had more children- as she was 18 by that time, very similar to the Mary Kay Laternou story- she married the boy that fathered her children- and remember- mary kay laternou had "groomed" this boy since he was SEVEN years old) -

OMG, I just lost everything posted after the above paragraph as I accidently hit the Esc button while reaching for my coffee


Anyway- there is alot of under-reporting of crimes of many types, but the most under-reported and under prosecuted BY FAR is when the woman is to blame in very hienous crimes.





Though there were some examples in my posts above of true women pedophiles, that groomed and performed oral and other sex on boys as young as 9 years old, that is not the norm for women pedophiles- however- the idea of control, just like with male pedophiles, is the underlying motive.

The younger boys just don't have the sophistication to be the 'in control" person in the relationship- mary kay laternou, of course, is a case study in this- she grooomed the boy when he was seven, and essentially ruined his life.

he will never have a normal relationship with a woman his own age, and hopes of college or personel advancement through education is essentially over, as he is now raising babies with the pedophile.

The damage done to young men, boys, young women, girls is really the same when they have CONSENSUAL but statuatory illegal relationships- that is why we have the laws with this- it is very, very frequent that the girl is the aggressor in a statuatory rape case, it is expected that the adult 'know better".

Not exactly, CR. What I am saying, and using the McDuff story to illustrate, is that men often get pictured as monsters, while women get portrayed as seductresses. I'm looking at image and not necessarily reality.

The following words illustrate what I mean by image:

Okay- I follow you, yes, it is what you say- as in the article I posted where the 14 year old is "6'4" tall with a 10 inch penis"- funny- you think that folks would buy the same argument if the girl is "44D and built like a brick outhouse" at 12 or 13 years old (unfortunately true too often in this age of earlier and earlier puberty for kids)?

You can prove female sexual predators are under-reported by... selecting the worst cases exposed by the under-reporting media?

Show me women are under-prosecuted, don't tell me. Don't forget to compare the number of men and women who never go to jail.

Rarity and cultural values, together they form the A-team of confusion crime and punishment stories.

I don’t know why we don’t view they act for what it is equally across the board, me thinks it speaks of some condition brought along by parasitic behavior of certain bacteria’s. I think those were also responsible for Florida public function.

Of course no one can show you- that is the catch 22 of the whole situation, AND the double standard. There is no way to track them, because there is no sanction for thier behavior, and, until recently- it was not reported at all.

Look at one thing that just started being reported about women- that there are two crimes women commit more than men- shoplifting and the murder of thier own children. Though women comment only 13% of violent crimes, they commit 50% of parental murders.

But that is only very recently even came to light in our society.

There is no way to judge or even enumerate women sex criminals- because we really have not even been watching, and dismiss or ignore the crime when a woman does it.

Similar to domestic violence cases- the man is always blamed- but it is not always the case. But it is certainly documented as such.

And there is an economic incentive for this- there is are whole entire industries based around "sheltering women" there are lots of jobs created- similar to the drug war and the industry it has created.

I would like some accuracy myself- but it hasn't happened yet.

In the state of Utah, or at least the last time I lived there, when the police arrive at a house after a 9/11 call for a domestic disturbance, the man is always hauled off for the night, regardless of who the aggressor is. It's actually a law!

Although..... Utah has many odd laws. For instance, if you drive up to a 7-11 to buy a beer, you can't buy just one beer, you have to buy a six pack or higher. Their thinking is that if you buy just one beer, you're likely to drink it on the way home. Instead, I guess they'd rather you drink six or more of them on the way home!

My Ex-Wife abused me for over one year. Do you want to guess whom the eyes went one I one day defended myself from the violence inflicted upon me?


Do you want to guess whom got the blame for abusing his wife when he had enough? Do you want to make a meager attempt to flip a coin of guessing what happened to the wife to conducted the abuse? Hitting, scratching hurting, drawing a knife against her husband, Do you want to guess the legal consequence that happened to her?


Or do you want to avoid thus topic. Thankyouverymuch.

In other words, when you say:


You admit you are making this up. Or, you are imagining this may be the case.

I'm sorry, but without hard data, this is just dust in the wind as far as an area of concern. One might as well say that there are as many black serial killers as white - we just haven't caught them yet. Or, there are WMD in Iraq - we just haven't found them yet.

The best you can really do is to say, one POSSIBLE reason for the data showing less than 4% of pedophile predators to be women, is that women are not being caught - or not being prosecuted. And it's a pretty thin stretch, in my opinion.

These supposed women receiving child support from teenage boys. You say you can't comment on them. But you brought them up. If you can't substantiate your claim, don't make it to begin with.

When I see a topic like this, I immediately think of creationists making paper-thin excuses for all the data pointing the other direction. Look - based on the available data, men pose an astronomically larger sexual risk to children than women do. End of story. All else is conjecture. Should data arise at some point that in fact you are correct, then I will gladly accept it. Because accepting data is good sense.

Well, I think that is the problem. Rape is rape and statutory rape isn't rape!! 13,14.. and up.. they are old enough to say no. And if they had proper parenting they will say no. There is no victim.

As for the double standard. I'm a man and I lead my house. Does my wife do everything I say, absolutely not, you'd all know I was lying if I even suggested such a thing. To get to the point, the reason many men will lead their home, not all of course, but many is because we are more dominant of the sexes and it is not society's fault.. it's nature.

So why is there a double standard, because there is a natural double standard. We want to see our daughter as victims when we when they have been defiled. We have no such desire when it comes to our sons. They are no more victims that the 13 14 year old drug dealer on the corner who was talked into doing it by the adult drug dealer. And we all know how much sympathy they get.


In fact, if you read CR and Ataals post close enough I think they are more outraged that the kid has to pay child support, more so than the the kid had sex with the teacher. And I'm with you all on that.

Let's face it those laws were mde to protect our daughters, not our sons. As a society we need to reexamine our laws in terms of statury rape. Young people are highly sexual now due to media, whether that be cable tv, music, or internet. They are no longer victims of some sick pervert, because the pervert is our society. We need to come to grips with that.

So like other have been saying it is hard to believe that women are doing this as much as men. Without facts, it becomes conjecture. And I really hope it remains that way, because I don't want this insanity to go further. I'm not going to have my son feeling like a victim because in his teen years he could score with an adult, i just want him to understand to protect himself. And, conversely, I am going to do everything I can to ensure my daughter avoids sex until she is well into her adult years. Call me a barbarian.

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Droop, Forgive me if i find it hard to believe that you are a parent. Or perhaps, you are a parent, but one who was highly "active" in his early years. Whatever the case, you've failed to take one thing into account.

THIRTEEN YEAR OLD BOYS AND GIRLS ARE NOT ADULTS. They do not posses the proper faculties of mind, nor the experience that consenting legal-age adults do. Good parenting, bad parenting, it doesn;t matter. Girls can feel pretty, and desirable, even if their brain is screaming for them to run away. Boys...well. We've got two brains, and only enough bloodflow to think with one of 'em at a time.

I don't know how you parent your kids, but if you are okay with your teenage son having sex, long before he is aware of the responsibilities of that act, then call me crazy, i think that's wrong.

You are forgiven Bless you.

And I am not Okay with it, but I'll be more accepting of that fact that he will be hunting for sex, cause that is the way nature is. As you very well know.

Thirteen year old boys and girls are not adults, but neither are 14, 15, 16, or 17 year olds. And yet

But are they prepared to raise children? Do they understand the dangers of STDs? Perhaps. But it becomes more and more unlikely, the younger men are.

Perhaps your son is a perfectly repsonsible boy, with a job, and a settled life, fully prepared to take care of any children, and prevent any STDs that plague him. I have absoluitely no idea. But the same does not go for the rest of our country's youths.

lol I know you are not; but if you were, you would be making a hell of a case why kids should have sex with adults... if they were going to have it.

The facts are there before us... our kids are having sex. Whether they understand the responsibilities is irrelevant, because their ignorance is not a dissuader. I'd also add regardless of age, sex is one of those things where you learn by experience. Maybe you get lucky and get the clap or chlymidia, before you get AIDS. Maybe your parents didn't JUST teach abstinence...



Socially, a teenagers are not ready for sex. They can not be employed and are not legally adults... so on and so forth. But when your son starts having those wet dreams, and your daghter starts needing to wear tampons... and both (god help me for even thinking about it) start letting their hands go south getting that "feel good" sensation. Hello!! Ours laws be damn, nature is calling baby!!!

And, well, adults shouldn't break the law, but like crime, sex is one of those things that kids won't participate in willingly. And when they do participate willingly they have moved a little further on into maturity and adulthood.... not legal adulthood... nature's, and thus I see no real victim.

By the way... My son is only 6 I've got a few years to change my mind.

Six?

Six?!

Wow, you must have a pretty high opinion of him, if you;re already thinking about situations like the ones in ths debate. Takes after his dad, deos he?

Yes, teenagers have sex. I'm well aware of this; its not exactly groundbreaking news. But we cannot afford to encourage them. The "legal age" laws are there for a reason; you must be at least eighteen, because eighteen is the age of employment, when individuals are independent, and responsible for their own actions. A teenager who has sex, at some level, believes that his parents can take care of any complications that result. An adult, on the other hand, knows that he must own up to any misdeeds or pain he causes, and thus, is much more cautious.

I could be wrong but I'm not sure there are a lot of laws stating that a child has to be eighteen to have sex. Yes, there is a legal age of consent, but that varies by state.
As far as kids go 15 year old and a 16 year old can have sex till their genitals fall off, ( if such was biologically possible) and neither will be punished under the law if both are willing participants.

And I disagree that a teenager having sex thinks thinks that his parents can take care of complications that may arise... unless that teenager is a very spoiled child.
Infact, I don't think a teenager, especially boys, are concerned with complications at all.

The legal law is there for a reason, but I'm not sure it has to do with employment. The whole debate is about the perceived doublestandard, which I don't believe would exist if the laws were made for children in general. The reason adult women having sex with underage boys doesn't receive the stigma as the vice-versa situation, is self evident. The laws were made of a daughters, not our sons.

Women give up their virginity, men get rid of theirs... it's so simple

Which is even worse. If they're not even thinking about what's going to happen the morning after, they're in for world of surprise.


Yes, the laws were made to protect women. This is wrong, but incurable, since it stems from the age-old male mindset, that women are quiet wallflowers, who sit back and let men walk all over them. (among other things. ) Sooner or later, lawmakers will proabably change this, as they realize that in the modern world, women can be just as outgoing, and just as depraved as men. Until then, there'll be an imbalance, sure.

But crunch the numbers. How many women rape boys, as opposed to men raping girls? See the disparity?

You seem, to have a "male" mindset here, droop. But in the end, sex, as fun, and pleasurable as it is, has to take a backseat to family. And family is a hard thing to contemplate whewn you're only sixteen, fourteen, thirteen, or what-have you.