Anecdotal Introduction

I've always wondered about the phrase "God bless america." Why America? Why stop at the 39th parallel? (or is that the 49th)? Why not "God bless North America"? Why not "God bless the Northeastern Region of Virginia, including the suburbs of D.C."? Why not "God Bless My House, up to the property line"?

Conjecture about the American Revolution, in which God and Freedom come before country

The constitution, I would argue is certainly something of a Christian document. It presumes their is a benign god, a constant god of truth, and a god for "all men," regardless of nationhood. This creator endows "all men" with certain "inalienable rights," including... well you know the rest. My point is, when Jefferson wrote down to author his great documents, the God he envisioned did not stop at the American soil (though it may have stopped at the African soil -- different topic). Jefferson's God wanted to bring democracy to France, just as he had brought it to America. For Jefferson's God, the American revolution was one proxy battle in a worldwide move to democracy, much the way Trotsky's Russia was but one proxy battle in humanity's worldwide move towards communism.

Veteran's Day

So why, when we celebrate Veteran's day, do we limit our celebration for those veterans of our own soil? If freedom precludes government, why don't we celebrate those veterans who have fought and died for the equivalent freedom of men and women worldwide?

Those aren't the debate questions. These are:


1.) Would you be willing to change our Veteran's Day to a "world veteran's day?" Why or why not?

2.) Think about the way we as a nation remember World War II. (watch that ken burns flick if you need the refresher.) Is there a pressing need in American culture to acknowledge the sacrifices of freedom fighters in other countries? Why or why not?

I hope it doesn't seem like I am fishing for the right answers here. Previous posts suggest my opinions on this matter, so I'm fishing for a variety of opinions, here.

I think veterans day gets celebrated because enormous amounts of people have died overall separated into the dead for various cultures. So such as with America the amount of dead for instance from WW2 is a rather large number. So the holiday really is for people that gave all a person can for say a country. I mean during the Korean war there were points in the conflict where the mean lifespan of say a marine was seconds. Hardened death row inmates put up more of a struggle going towards a relatively quick and painless death compared to the reality on a battlefield. In many cases soldiers could be by standards youth also, getting for lack of better words bayoneted in some foxhole, so the hell and the price I guess is why it gets celebrated. It seems like a very stupid question, it would have been more apt to ask at what point wont humanity have to celebrate such a reality. At least though when you are dead you don’t have to bear the cross anymore or any such related jargon that leads to the whole mess in the first place. War being mandatory for all of humanity would probably reduce its frequency, but that’s another debate, along with lapel pins.

1.) Would you be willing to change our Veteran's Day to a "world veteran's day?"

No.

Why or why not?

Veteran’s day isn’t actually about honoring our soldiers for their personal sacrifices in the name of some abstract concept of “freedom”. Freedom could be jihad, or the red revolution, depending on whom you ask. To secure the rights of personal freedom that the US founders believed in, a government was established that derives its powers from the consent of the governed. So Veteran’s day is about honoring our soldiers for their personal sacrifices in the name of honoring a commitment made to all of us specifically, in the name of securing those personal freedoms.

The oath of our armed forces:
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

So, again, the soldier does not swear an oath to freedom, he/she swears a direct oath to obey the will of the people (represented by elected civilian leadership), regardless of personal opinion, under the Constitution of the United States of America. US soldiers don't serve particular wars, they serve the Constitution. The above oath in its substance has remained essentially unchanged (though the exact wording has changed a bit) since 1789. Anyone taking and following the above oath deserves special recognition.

1.) Would you be willing to change our Veteran's Day to a "world veteran's day?" Why or why not?

Not a chance in h**l!!!!

2.) Think about the way we as a nation remember World War II. (watch that ken burns flick if you need the refresher.) Is there a pressing need in American culture to acknowledge the sacrifices of freedom fighters in other countries? Why or why not?

Real simple who do you think we were fighting? This is a really bad idea that says that morality and honor have no meaning at all and that somehow the enemy really wasn't a bad guy. Guess what they are and I think to honor the enemy is to dishonor and disgrace the brave men and women that have served this country proudly.

1.) Would you be willing to change our Veteran's Day to a "world veteran's day?"

I support a multinational veterans day...for our allies. For those who fought against our troops, on any soil, at any time, honor would be but a calumny to the brave emn who died to halt their nefarious designs.

Or so the papers have it.

Yes, by this time, we are all aware that soldiers are only men, and sometimes women, who are forced into the bloody field of conflict. THey die the same, regardless of nationality. BUT we cannot afford to acknowledge that. Surely not yet.

How do you think its going to look, when the very country that turns a blind eye to civilian deaths in Iraq, starts to honor the military dead elsewhere?

One problem with your position on a multinational veterans day for our allies is that our allies change with time. WWI, Japan was an ally, but obviously an enemy in WWII, but is again friendly towards America. Do we honor the Japanese soldiers? We supported Afgahnistan when they were at war with Russia, but Russia is now (supposedly) our ally.

The history of Veterans Day is that it is celebrated by many countries around the world as the day of remembrance when WWI was ended. It is already celebrated around the world.

Some more information on Veterans Day can be found here

2.) Think about the way we as a nation remember World War II. (watch that ken burns flick if you need the refresher.) Is there a pressing need in American culture to acknowledge the sacrifices of freedom fighters in other countries? Why or why not?

Thinking about this, I don't believe it is necessary, nor would make any difference to any one outside the USA. The thing is, the USA already honours the allies of its dead when ever the official representatives of the USA visit war memorials to pay their respects and lay wreathes as a token of that respect.

Its also worth noting that few nations defended in their time by the USA have returned the debt of honour in having defended the USA in return. I believe this debt of honour is the fundamental reason why my country continues to support US troops in Afghanistan as we did in the first Gulf War and until very recently, in Iraq.

I do not believe the USA is obliged for that reason to comemorate Danish war dead however, nor any other country's war dead. That is the nature of a debt of honour. Our honour obliges us to defend the USA as best we can. That is what being a (real) ally is all about. I'd like to think that were the tables of fortune reversed, Denmark would always stand by its old and reliable ally, the United States of America.

That’s sort of the point though. In reference to morality do we only suspect our nation of having the best morality on the planet, I mean ultimately what does that speak on in regards to any allies we have? This is probably another reason why the U.N does not operate with a sparkling record of perfect results in which everyone was made as happy as possible. We all live and for lack of better words require the world to sustain these nations, this is a demonstrable reality on any particular level really.

I mean when you view history, such as say the history of a different culture or even your own in context of time you see really different people, yet for same reason we can relate to them though I don’t know how much is lost in translation. So really then like one of the issues for GW what future are we handing to the people that will come in time? One were we celebrate the same old comic book plot? My reaction to the stark reality of war is how to end it, not how to look for the next one. Yet I guess that morality would be different while we both could be celebrated as veterans

1. Setting aside, for the moment, that it isn't my Veterans' Day - I don't think there would be much point. Other nations remember their own war dead in their own way - and nobody (as far as I know) makes any special effort to remember the dead of other nations - even those of allies. (The occasional British habit of remembering the dead of some of their Imperial possessions in WW1 & 2, when there still was a British Empire, is a little different.) I hate to break it yo tou, but this includes American war dead.

2. It might be nice, one day when wars are a thing of the past, to remember everyone who died in wars with some degree of respect. However in the meantime, when even now people's attitudes to other nations and their citizens are shaped by pst alliances - some beyond living memory. For example, what American's respect and affection for British soldiers and the British generally (if they hold any) and the British generally isn't tempered by our refusal to fight in Vietnam, by the War of 1812 and even by the Revolutionary War of nearly 250 years ago?

It cuts both ways, of course - America might conceivably have lost the Revolutionary War without the direct intervention of the French, yet because they didn't support the Iraq War and they got invaded in WW2 and liberated largely by US efforts (with no small help from Brits and others) France is generally held in some contempt by most Americans (and vice versa).

So if these things are true and would colour the way other nations' veterans and war dead would be honoured, how much harder would it be for Serbs and Bosnian Muslims to remember one another's fallen without rancour?

So, given the difficulty of giving pure honour to the fallen and to survivors and veterans of other countries without getting bogged down in prejudices and old debts (in either direction), and the little benefit from doing so, I can't say that there is any pressing need to change Veteran's Day to include foreign service men and women.