Full Version: Gen Y workers-They're here, they're whining
I read about this a few weeks back, too busy to post about it until now I guess. I first noticed a write-up on these over-pampered brats in the Utne Reader. They are distinctive as a group for being able to multi-task, master all sorts of digital media, as well as being creative when the situation calls for it.
There is a downside though. This group expects managers to act like therapists, and not brow-beating bosses. Will their parents harangue the boss for that smaller than expected promotion?
From a 60 Minutes story:
They will leave if they are unahpppywith their job and will whine about feeling unappreciated. What has one company done about it? Imagine being this consultant listed in the following section:
The 60 Minutes story is a must see one regarding this topic.
This generation also appears to be not be "all there" in regards to literacy skills and interaction.
Article on Gen Y shortcomings
Questions for debate:
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
Bonus question:
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning?
There is a downside though. This group expects managers to act like therapists, and not brow-beating bosses. Will their parents harangue the boss for that smaller than expected promotion?
From a 60 Minutes story:QUOTE
What are some of the do's and don'ts in speaking to the generation of young workers?
"You do have to speak to them a little bit like a therapist on television might speak to a patient," Salzman says, laughing. "You can't be harsh. You cannot tell them you're disappointed in them. You can't really ask them to live and breathe the company. Because they're living and breathing themselves and that keeps them very busy."
Faced with new employees who want to roll into work with their iPods and flip flops around noon, but still be CEO by Friday, companies are realizing that the era of the buttoned down exec happy to have a job is as dead as the three-Martini lunch.
"You do have to speak to them a little bit like a therapist on television might speak to a patient," Salzman says, laughing. "You can't be harsh. You cannot tell them you're disappointed in them. You can't really ask them to live and breathe the company. Because they're living and breathing themselves and that keeps them very busy."
Faced with new employees who want to roll into work with their iPods and flip flops around noon, but still be CEO by Friday, companies are realizing that the era of the buttoned down exec happy to have a job is as dead as the three-Martini lunch.
They will leave if they are unahpppywith their job and will whine about feeling unappreciated. What has one company done about it? Imagine being this consultant listed in the following section:
QUOTE
“Three years down the line, there’s going to be a crisis for midlevel leadership positions if organizations fail to engage this generation,” says Carolyn Martin of the management training group RainmakerThinking. Some employers are already giving it their all, hiring praise consultants and celebrations assistants, at least one of whom is charged with throwing 25 pounds of confetti every week, according to the Wall Street Journal (April 20, 2007).
For those watching from further along in their careers, the times they are a–chafin’. “I’ve heard some managers say, ‘Well, we have to put up with this right now, because the economy is good and unemployment is low,’ ” Twenge says. “ ‘But as soon as times aren’t as good, we’re not.’ ”
For those watching from further along in their careers, the times they are a–chafin’. “I’ve heard some managers say, ‘Well, we have to put up with this right now, because the economy is good and unemployment is low,’ ” Twenge says. “ ‘But as soon as times aren’t as good, we’re not.’ ”
The 60 Minutes story is a must see one regarding this topic.
This generation also appears to be not be "all there" in regards to literacy skills and interaction.
QUOTE
With teen employment at its lowest since the 1940s, it is no wonder that Generation Y is considered unprepared to enter the working world. However, not obtaining a job during their adolescence is not the only factor influencing this skills deficit. Parents, education, technology and entertainment are primary drivers as well. “It starts in the home, it goes through high school, it goes through college, through graduate programs because we don’t have mind courses—courses that teach students to go inside, figure out who they are and what they have to offer the working world,” Dwyer said. “One of the questions that I ask during The Job Journey course is, ‘Who do you respect and why?’ And their typical answers are Tupac and 50 Cent. They don’t know how to talk to adults—they especially don’t know how to talk to the boomers that are interviewing them.”
Dwyer said that there is an increasing divide growing between Generation Y, Generation X and the baby boomers. “Older generations grew up with more of a black-and-white world, and Generation Y is living in a world of grays in terms of respect for their elders, teachers and parents. Any kind of respect for an authority figure is diminishing: Today kids respect rappers, they respect sports stars, and the idols that Generation X and baby boomers held up are on the wayside,” she said.
Dwyer said that there is an increasing divide growing between Generation Y, Generation X and the baby boomers. “Older generations grew up with more of a black-and-white world, and Generation Y is living in a world of grays in terms of respect for their elders, teachers and parents. Any kind of respect for an authority figure is diminishing: Today kids respect rappers, they respect sports stars, and the idols that Generation X and baby boomers held up are on the wayside,” she said.
Article on Gen Y shortcomings
Questions for debate:
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
Bonus question:
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning?
QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Nov 24 2007, 01:22 PM) 
Questions for debate:
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
Weakness is greater. Learning to hack around a computer is a learned skill not an innate ability.1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Nov 24 2007, 01:22 PM)
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
Man you got me but believe me when I tell you the 20 somethings today can't spell, don't care that they can't and think grammar is something that old people do. You never, ever, ever let one of those people write so much as a company wide email. Don't even think about letting them draft up something that's client-side with out a grown up fact, spell and grammar checking it.QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Nov 24 2007, 01:22 PM)
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
It doesn't look good. With a lifetime of coddling and a "Well she's only 26," excuse built-in these people seem quite happy to stand around feeling entitled and knowing that someone will always be there to bail them out.QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Nov 24 2007, 01:22 PM)
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning?
I'll take a boomer or an Xer immediately. And I'm in technology! The problem with boomers is they're going to die soon and they know it so they are in it for the cash and they want it in their hands. No promises. Xers know the game and they want a future. Remember Xers are 30+ to about ~45 this is it... this is the most money they're ever going to make. They're hopped up on caffeine and they know how to work 20 hours a day. It can be difficult to slow them down.***
My son is 8. He has never competed in any sport or school activity. Not from a lack of his trying - it simply doesn't happen. There are no winners or losers only participants. Thank God he sees the destructive sham that is. We actually had a coach ask us to tell him to "Stop trying to win," I looked at the guy and just laughed. I'm not a win at all costs lunatic, but for Pete's Sake someone has to win and someone has to lose. I like winning. It's more fun. My boy doesn't go crazy if he loses, but he'll try harder the next chance he gets. That seems to have been the coach's problem. He wouldn't just lose.
Recently in a class "participation" my boy kept getting the best score. We actually got a letter home from the teacher asking us to talk to our son and tell him that it hurts others feelings if they don't get a chance to win...
You want to know why Gen Y is a bunch of whiny little self centered drips? That's why.
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
Having reviewed a ton of student papers, communication and writing suck. I'm not sure if it's any better or worse than before. I'd probably be embarrassed to read any of my college papers, but at least an English major tries to get it right. I'm pretty sure there were lots of imperfections I see today that looked just fine back then.
We were into drugs, sex and R&R, hated authority, tried communes, pretty much rejected the whole establishment thing. Then we got jobs and families and we changed. I think that's how it always works.
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
Youth.
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
Sure, happens with every generation. The Xers were supposed to be slackers and just look at 'em go today!
Bonus question:
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning?
Well, I work directly with clients as a freelancer. I've got a boomer, Xer and Yer for clients right now. They are all okay in my book, just different, and they need a good writer so I'm happy.
Kids! What's the matter with these kids today? This is basically the tired old news story.
BTW, we boomers don't have our feet in the grave yet, and that's a problem. The corporate workplace only considers a 25-35 year productivity curve, which is total you know what that is not acceptable on this board but just consists of the letters after A and R, so total AR shifted right.
Or maybe this has never changed either. The good ones go on to be freelancers of some sort after the corporations abandon them. NEVER EVER RETIRE! It's a death trap, a suicide rap. Drink the Kool-Aid before they put you in the home. Either lead, follow or check out of this joint.
BTW, I started out in technology as a technical writer. That's because even in 1979 people couldn't write their way out of a grocery list. That's just the way it is, only so many language lovers per generation. There are more people now, but I think it's a consistent percentage of population, something like 10%, which is also the percentage of drug abusers. There's probably a correlation. Seems to have historical precedence too, but then I'm currently reading Steinbeck for a summary/analysis gig. That guy drinks like a sump pump.
So lets all put away our fretty hats and let the kids be kids. Besides, being a jerk has never been a good way to be a boss. Firm but fair, that's the way to productivity. At least that's what I've seen work in the workplace.
Having reviewed a ton of student papers, communication and writing suck. I'm not sure if it's any better or worse than before. I'd probably be embarrassed to read any of my college papers, but at least an English major tries to get it right. I'm pretty sure there were lots of imperfections I see today that looked just fine back then.
We were into drugs, sex and R&R, hated authority, tried communes, pretty much rejected the whole establishment thing. Then we got jobs and families and we changed. I think that's how it always works.
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
Youth.
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
Sure, happens with every generation. The Xers were supposed to be slackers and just look at 'em go today!
Bonus question:
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning?
Well, I work directly with clients as a freelancer. I've got a boomer, Xer and Yer for clients right now. They are all okay in my book, just different, and they need a good writer so I'm happy.
Kids! What's the matter with these kids today? This is basically the tired old news story.
BTW, we boomers don't have our feet in the grave yet, and that's a problem. The corporate workplace only considers a 25-35 year productivity curve, which is total you know what that is not acceptable on this board but just consists of the letters after A and R, so total AR shifted right.
Or maybe this has never changed either. The good ones go on to be freelancers of some sort after the corporations abandon them. NEVER EVER RETIRE! It's a death trap, a suicide rap. Drink the Kool-Aid before they put you in the home. Either lead, follow or check out of this joint.
BTW, I started out in technology as a technical writer. That's because even in 1979 people couldn't write their way out of a grocery list. That's just the way it is, only so many language lovers per generation. There are more people now, but I think it's a consistent percentage of population, something like 10%, which is also the percentage of drug abusers. There's probably a correlation. Seems to have historical precedence too, but then I'm currently reading Steinbeck for a summary/analysis gig. That guy drinks like a sump pump.
So lets all put away our fretty hats and let the kids be kids. Besides, being a jerk has never been a good way to be a boss. Firm but fair, that's the way to productivity. At least that's what I've seen work in the workplace.
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Nov 24 2007, 01:28 PM)
My son is 8. He has never competed in any sport or school activity. Not from a lack of his trying - it simply doesn't happen. There are no winners or losers only participants. Thank God he sees the destructive sham that is. We actually had a coach ask us to tell him to "Stop trying to win," I looked at the guy and just laughed. I'm not a win at all costs lunatic, but for Pete's Sake someone has to win and someone has to lose. I like winning. It's more fun. My boy doesn't go crazy if he loses, but he'll try harder the next chance he gets. That seems to have been the coach's problem. He wouldn't just lose.
Recently in a class "participation" my boy kept getting the best score. We actually got a letter home from the teacher asking us to talk to our son and tell him that it hurts others feelings if they don't get a chance to win...
You want to know why Gen Y is a bunch of whiny little self centered drips? That's why.
Recently in a class "participation" my boy kept getting the best score. We actually got a letter home from the teacher asking us to talk to our son and tell him that it hurts others feelings if they don't get a chance to win...
You want to know why Gen Y is a bunch of whiny little self centered drips? That's why.
Actually- those rules have been in place to keep the PARENTS in check- NOT the kids. Poeple losing it because thier kid didn't get enough playing time, threatening the coach because they lost a game, outright murdering other parents at the hockey rink or whatever.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art...rticlekey=51670
April 9, 2001 -- El Paso youth football games were always rowdy events. But in one memorable year there were two stabbings, a gunfight, and numerous attacks on officials -- all caused by parents taking their children's games too seriously. After one huge melee -- in which one parent stabbed another in the head with a down marker while 8- and 9-year-old players watched in horror -- Paula Powell knew she had to do something about the Wild West atmosphere at the games.
"It was like parents had lost what they were there for," says Powell, El Paso's sports operation supervisor. "I've been attacked by parents two times, and once by a referee. There were lots of brawls and drinking. Youth games were just not healthy places to be."
Powell admits to getting caught up in the win-at-all-cost frenzy. She once was evicted from her daughter's softball game for walking onto the field to complain to the umpire.
and, from the tone in your post- I would say that YOU would be one of those parents they are looking out for
There are some big gaps in the explanation in the original posting- why would a company hire these "happy consultants" for "throw away" employees- in other words- companies doing this are doing it because they "gen y-ers" have skills that they need.
Let's look at the corporate world today- Gen Y-ers realize that the corporate world thinks of them as expendeble commodities- there is no loyalty to a corporation, because the corporate world give no loyalty anymore.
The real whining is the corporate baby-boomers that want to abuse thier employees with bad management, just like they were abused- but guess what? Gen-yers are savvy to that crap, and went all capitalist on them, and are charging all the market will bear now.
Gen-yers without needed skills- well, they are going ot have a hard time of it- just like any other generation.
A few more thoughts about this story of the generations being in conflict:
“Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it” George Orwell
"Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average" Garisson Keillor
The Lake Wobegone Effect
"Our generation has an incredible amount of realism, yet at the same time it loves to complain and not really change. Because, if it does change, then it won't have anything to complain about." Tori Amos
"There is nothing wrong with today's teenager that twenty years won't cure" Author Unknown
The ancient Greeks complained about that lousy generation coming up too. Youth can't help but being stupid and self-centered. They haven't yet tried to raise kids. Those in midlife can't help but being obnoxiously arrogant, they have yet to be humiliated by age. The old can't help but being quiet and wise. If we move too fast we'll break something or leak. The wisdom part is just an act.
“Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it” George Orwell
"Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average" Garisson Keillor
The Lake Wobegone Effect
"Our generation has an incredible amount of realism, yet at the same time it loves to complain and not really change. Because, if it does change, then it won't have anything to complain about." Tori Amos
"There is nothing wrong with today's teenager that twenty years won't cure" Author Unknown
The ancient Greeks complained about that lousy generation coming up too. Youth can't help but being stupid and self-centered. They haven't yet tried to raise kids. Those in midlife can't help but being obnoxiously arrogant, they have yet to be humiliated by age. The old can't help but being quiet and wise. If we move too fast we'll break something or leak. The wisdom part is just an act.
I will not deny that the current young generation has had some things too easy, like the grade inflation in the Education System. And there are parents who pamper their kids too much by hassling the teachers about the low grades. But I think they're the exception and not the rule.
CBS needs to get their facts straight before doing another story that paints an entire group of people with one broad brush. For starters, the largest private employer in this country is Walmart. And last time I've heard, Walmart doesn't bend over backwards to hire people or make employees feel "special." Which leads to the second point. Many college graduates are not getting cushy jobs at Google. There are thousands of college graduates in this country who are living with their parents and working at a low wage job, or going back to school to learn a physical trade like Carpentry or Plumbing. Since graduation from college 4 years ago and being unemployed in America, I did not believe for 1 second the news about our "economic growth."
CBS did mention that because College Graduates have the option of living with their parents, they don't really have to take their jobs seriously. Did the reporter for that story ever try to pay rent and transportation costs on a Walmart wage? If I didn't have the option of living with my parents after college graduation, I would have ended up sleeping under a bridge.
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
I believe this should be an Education Thread. Anyway in respect to socialization, children simply spend too much time in front of the TV and not enough time interracting with people. And the reason for that I think is because we've built a car dependant society that discourages people from being outside.
On the topic of Education, I believe we need to lengthen the school year and implement standardized tests that make sure that students understand most of the material in their textbooks. Low standards at all levels of Education from Elementary School to College are to blame.
CBS needs to get their facts straight before doing another story that paints an entire group of people with one broad brush. For starters, the largest private employer in this country is Walmart. And last time I've heard, Walmart doesn't bend over backwards to hire people or make employees feel "special." Which leads to the second point. Many college graduates are not getting cushy jobs at Google. There are thousands of college graduates in this country who are living with their parents and working at a low wage job, or going back to school to learn a physical trade like Carpentry or Plumbing. Since graduation from college 4 years ago and being unemployed in America, I did not believe for 1 second the news about our "economic growth."
CBS did mention that because College Graduates have the option of living with their parents, they don't really have to take their jobs seriously. Did the reporter for that story ever try to pay rent and transportation costs on a Walmart wage? If I didn't have the option of living with my parents after college graduation, I would have ended up sleeping under a bridge.
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
I believe this should be an Education Thread. Anyway in respect to socialization, children simply spend too much time in front of the TV and not enough time interracting with people. And the reason for that I think is because we've built a car dependant society that discourages people from being outside.
On the topic of Education, I believe we need to lengthen the school year and implement standardized tests that make sure that students understand most of the material in their textbooks. Low standards at all levels of Education from Elementary School to College are to blame.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Nov 24 2007, 09:02 PM)
and, from the tone in your post- I would say that YOU would be one of those parents they are looking out for
Not really. I just don't see why anyone has to "dumb down" so some kid doesn't get their feelings hurt. Either toughen up "medium-boy" or get smarter. It's not rocket science it's the third grade.
It's not like I'm advocating "running up the score" I'm simply pointing out there are winners and their are losers and it's important that everyone understand this. You can't win them all, but you can try.
QUOTE
I believe this should be an Education Thread.
I think doing that would've made the topic way too narrow. This generation has unique traits that not only have affected education, but other areas as well. The "helicopter parent" who jumped a teacher's butt over a 91%(I've had that happen to me thank you) is now calling and haranguing the boss as to why their child didn't get the best raise the young newbie worker felt he/she deserved. The "helicopter parent" is also negotiating car deals, housing, and probably still does the laundry like it was the first year of college for junior. These kids who went into high school with memories of full-blown elementary birthday parties and pampering, demanded, and in some cases obtained, the same nauseating, smarmy behavior. Now they are adults and woe be unto the employer who doesn't dump fifteen pounds of confetti a week upon their workers.
These people think they are special, they think they are a snowflake.
Oooh, this is a good topic.
I don't know. I spend about an hour cleaning the graffiti that Gen Y leaves all over the neighborhood.
Currently, I'm giving an "F" for spelling, and a D+ for penmanship.
That's not a fair painting of all of them, but that's just too general to really answer.
Because it seems to me that more importance is placed on self-esteem and promoting self image instead of actually learning something. Like how to interact, problem solve, or even have a grasp on basic reading, writing and math.
Not to mention respect for authority. Geez. If you think I'm sounding old, you're not the only one. And get off my lawn!
I hope so. I hope I don't have to walk in to stores some day where I'm greeted with, "Yo dog! How the **** are ya?"
But that's okay. For the winners, there will be some great opportunities.
My son is a Gen-Yer, but he's also a teenager. I can't tell if it's so much him being a teen, or because kids have figured out how to work around the system. I think it's the latter, since kids teach each other that they don't have to do what an adult says, and the adults aren't able to enforce the desired results.
And everything Baphomets said.
QUOTE
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
I don't know. I spend about an hour cleaning the graffiti that Gen Y leaves all over the neighborhood.
Currently, I'm giving an "F" for spelling, and a D+ for penmanship.
That's not a fair painting of all of them, but that's just too general to really answer.
QUOTE
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
Because it seems to me that more importance is placed on self-esteem and promoting self image instead of actually learning something. Like how to interact, problem solve, or even have a grasp on basic reading, writing and math.
Not to mention respect for authority. Geez. If you think I'm sounding old, you're not the only one. And get off my lawn!
QUOTE
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
I hope so. I hope I don't have to walk in to stores some day where I'm greeted with, "Yo dog! How the **** are ya?"
But that's okay. For the winners, there will be some great opportunities.
My son is a Gen-Yer, but he's also a teenager. I can't tell if it's so much him being a teen, or because kids have figured out how to work around the system. I think it's the latter, since kids teach each other that they don't have to do what an adult says, and the adults aren't able to enforce the desired results.
And everything Baphomets said.
Ok, so I don't know if this belongs in this thread, an education thread, or simply the jokes thread, but I think it illustrates the lack of knowledge of anything other than iPods, credit cards and Playstations.
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Dec 6 2007, 04:25 PM)
QUOTE
I believe this should be an Education Thread.
I think doing that would've made the topic way too narrow. This generation has unique traits that not only have affected education, but other areas as well. The "helicopter parent" who jumped a teacher's butt over a 91%(I've had that happen to me thank you) is now calling and haranguing the boss as to why their child didn't get the best raise the young newbie worker felt he/she deserved. The "helicopter parent" is also negotiating car deals, housing, and probably still does the laundry like it was the first year of college for junior. These kids who went into high school with memories of full-blown elementary birthday parties and pampering, demanded, and in some cases obtained, the same nauseating, smarmy behavior. Now they are adults and woe be unto the employer who doesn't dump fifteen pounds of confetti a week upon their workers.
These people think they are special, they think they are a snowflake.Nebraska- if these kids are geting snowflakes and birthday parties at work- that can only mean two things- the Gen Yers have some skill that is desperately needed by the company, and the company should and will do anything to retain those employees that make the company strong- or, you have nincompoops for managers. IF they don't have the skills, you can easily hire someone that does. If you can't easily hire another- you make that employee happy, no matter the quirks,
I have a sub-contractor I reward with some fine micro-brews once or twice a week. He is worth it, he makes me lots of money. It is something I do to keep my sub-contractor happy. If it were confetti and b-day parties- i would do it.
And I won't even complain about it- he just makes me too much money for me to be upset at his upbringin'
QUOTE(scubatim @ Dec 7 2007, 10:06 AM)
Ok, so I don't know if this belongs in this thread, an education thread, or simply the jokes thread, but I think it illustrates the lack of knowledge of anything other than iPods, credit cards and Playstations.
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
And when you left she noted the two of you and your condescending attitude. She probably muttered what donkeyholes the two of you are and went in the back to the food preparers and flirted. Next week you and your wife will be enjoying "floor food" and "throat juices" - congratulations on your superior intellect.
Bet you can't wait to get your next Subway meal. Never, ever screw with food preparers. Ever. You'd think someone as bright as you would know that little maxim.
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Dec 7 2007, 09:51 AM)
QUOTE(scubatim @ Dec 7 2007, 10:06 AM)
Ok, so I don't know if this belongs in this thread, an education thread, or simply the jokes thread, but I think it illustrates the lack of knowledge of anything other than iPods, credit cards and Playstations.
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
And when you left she noted the two of you and your condescending attitude. She probably muttered what donkeyholes the two of you are and went in the back to the food preparers and flirted. Next week you and your wife will be enjoying "floor food" and "throat juices" - congratulations on your superior intellect.
Bet you can't wait to get your next Subway meal. Never, ever screw with food preparers. Ever. You'd think someone as bright as you would know that little maxim.
Way to go for the juglular, BA, you sure told me! Do you think she is even bright enough to know that we were laughing at her? So you think insulting me is the proper response with your sarcastic reference "congratulations on your superior intellect"? Showing your true colors, aren't you? So tell me, how is it that at Subway, since you see the food in front of you as it is prepared, they have any opportunity to do such things? Next time, stick to the conversation and avoid bashing someone's "superior intellect" if you overlook things such as this.
Back to the debate
QUOTE(scubatim @ Dec 7 2007, 11:24 AM)
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Dec 7 2007, 09:51 AM)
QUOTE(scubatim @ Dec 7 2007, 10:06 AM)
Ok, so I don't know if this belongs in this thread, an education thread, or simply the jokes thread, but I think it illustrates the lack of knowledge of anything other than iPods, credit cards and Playstations.
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
And when you left she noted the two of you and your condescending attitude. She probably muttered what donkeyholes the two of you are and went in the back to the food preparers and flirted. Next week you and your wife will be enjoying "floor food" and "throat juices" - congratulations on your superior intellect.
Bet you can't wait to get your next Subway meal. Never, ever screw with food preparers. Ever. You'd think someone as bright as you would know that little maxim.
Way to go for the juglular, BA, you sure told me! Do you think she is even bright enough to know that we were laughing at her? So you think insulting me is the proper response with your sarcastic reference "congratulations on your superior intellect"? Showing your true colors, aren't you? So tell me, how is it that at Subway, since you see the food in front of you as it is prepared, they have any opportunity to do such things? Next time, stick to the conversation and avoid bashing someone's "superior intellect" if you overlook things such as this.
Back to the debate
I'm not the bully picking on people at fast food joints. And keep your eye on your sub there sparky and know that the next crunchy thing you feel in it isn't a fingernail or worse because you watched them.
it would have taken you one sentence to help her out instead of being a condescending jerk. Were you born with the inate knowledge of what a Federal Reserve Note is or did someone help you out?
Gentlemen, let's return to the debate questions, please.
TOPICS:
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
Bonus question:
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning?
TOPICS:
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
Bonus question:
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning?
QUOTE
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
In my snootiest Harvard Business man impression voice.
I hear you Scubatim. HA HA HA HA. I mean she doesn't know what a federal reserve note is. Who doesnt call dollars federal reserve notes. HA HA HA HA. Hey guy, What's next, she won't know the difference between a Espresso Macchiato and a Caffé Latte HA HA HA HA HA HA. What an idiot!!
End of sarcasm
Me thinks there is a yuppie with a superiority complex hanging around the debate board.
QUOTE
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
Please, the further back in time you go the dumber people are, the more superstitious they are, and believe me they complained about the generation coming forward just as bad as people here are ragging on Generation "Y"
You know, power likes dummy. Power likes the the guys that gets screwed in the hindparts with no vasiline and says, "Thank you, Sir... Anytime sir.... Can I please get screwed over by you one more time, sir"
We see them as whining, because they are complaining about the messed up thing that the generation before them endured. I call it progress.
It's not Generation Y that's the problem... because they are not making the rules, yet are they??
Gen Y is doing just fine- even better in that they don't buy the garbage of their older generation.
As for their relaxed attitude and failing to give respect to people who are so very sure they "deserve" respect, More power To Them!
better that attitude than the one whose superiority complex leads them to believe humiliating someone is not only the right thing to do but is actually funny. Maybe in some cases Darwin was wrong.
As mentioned each generation thinks less of the one before it and even less of the next set.
Gen Y is very suited to the oncoming world and has more basic knowledge about what will be relevant than the older generation needs to take certification classes for.
As for their relaxed attitude and failing to give respect to people who are so very sure they "deserve" respect, More power To Them!
better that attitude than the one whose superiority complex leads them to believe humiliating someone is not only the right thing to do but is actually funny. Maybe in some cases Darwin was wrong.
As mentioned each generation thinks less of the one before it and even less of the next set.
Gen Y is very suited to the oncoming world and has more basic knowledge about what will be relevant than the older generation needs to take certification classes for.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Dec 7 2007, 10:19 AM)
Nebraska- if these kids are geting snowflakes and birthday parties at work- that can only mean two things- the Gen Yers have some skill that is desperately needed by the company, and the company should and will do anything to retain those employees that make the company strong- or, you have nincompoops for managers. IF they don't have the skills, you can easily hire someone that does. If you can't easily hire another- you make that employee happy, no matter the quirks,
I have a sub-contractor I reward with some fine micro-brews once or twice a week. He is worth it, he makes me lots of money. It is something I do to keep my sub-contractor happy. If it were confetti and b-day parties- i would do it.
And I won't even complain about it- he just makes me too much money for me to be upset at his upbringin'
I have a sub-contractor I reward with some fine micro-brews once or twice a week. He is worth it, he makes me lots of money. It is something I do to keep my sub-contractor happy. If it were confetti and b-day parties- i would do it.
And I won't even complain about it- he just makes me too much money for me to be upset at his upbringin'
You know what CR??? It's a first... we completely agree. (ok, maybe not a first)
The truth is that each generation has some complaint about the way that the next operates. The truth is, that the previous generation coupled with need often create the behavior of the current generation.
Frankly, Generation Y employees aren't better or worse, just different.
I'm in a unique position, in that I have people that answer to me that range in age from 23 to 61, and in geography from NYC to Dallas. I also have interaction with people in the UK and France. Furthermore, being nearly 30, I straddle this fence. I've been out of HS for 11 years, and out of college for 7... and in the work force professionally for about 10.
I'd say that there ARE differences in management style, but not necessarily that one needs more "coddling".
The article posted about these kids needing "therapists not managers" is absurd and inaccurate.
The differences are summed up, in my opinion, in the next 50 or so words:
Sure, my 61 year old sales man might come to work an hour early, stay an hour late, and work through lunches. He won't call in sick, and his customers love him. However, it took 4 months too long to get him to learn about our products and he still has problems with solving customer needs. He's a decent producer, but not the guy you can take to a big meeting because in my industry the decision makers expect a level of technical understanding that he doesn't own.
My 23 year year old sales man comes in at 830 and leaves at 459. He takes an hr or more lunch every day, and never volunteers to work special projects. However, it took about a week to train him, he is always impeccably knowledgeable, and understands not only our market place but the technology that we employ. If a customer has a problem, unique ideas fly off the computer screen and through the phone to help them out. He understands the language, and is great in front of customers in this capacity.
Granted, the 61 year old man knows that elbow grease sometimes is necessary, and often times he believes that it's the answer. Sure, the 23 year old never wants to even take a call on his Blackberry after 5. There has to be a healthy medium, and that's where Gen X'ers are the answer! HA!
Side note- I believe one good way to find happy middle ground is to ensure that you hire athletes, former military, etc Gen Y people. Often times the work ethic is coupled with the knowledge and ability to problem solve via our friend "technology". I've found (in another 25yr old former Marine and football player) that they're hungry and understand the value of hard work... but also don't have a hard time understanding how an enterprise server works or why data is faster on a CDMA network, etc.
Just my two cents...
QUOTE(Jaime @ Dec 7 2007, 10:46 AM)
[mod]Gentlemen, let's return to the debate questions, please.
TOPICS:
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
Bonus question:
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning? [/mod]
TOPICS:
1.)Are the strengths or weaknesses greater for Gen Y workers as a whole?
2.)What is the leading factor as to why this generation lacks basic skills in regards to education and socialization?
3.)Will this generation ever get its act together and contribute to success in the workplace?
Bonus question:
4.)Would you rather hire a boomer, a gen x, or a gen y worker? What would be your reasoning? [/mod]
Yes, ma'am. Although, I would have like to have the opportunity to respond in my defense from being called a condesending jerk, but I trust you have handled it appropriately.
QUOTE(droop224 @ Dec 7 2007, 10:47 AM)
QUOTE
I was at Subway the other day ordering food for my wife and I as I like to take lunch to her office so we can have lunch together several days per week. As I was waiting for my food to be toasted, the guy ahead of me was getting ready to pay. He asked the girl behind the register that was in her late teens, or early twenties, if they accepted Federal Reserve Notes. The look she shot him was priceless as she shyly replied, "No, we only accept Visa or Mastercard." I couldn't help myself but to laugh out loud. The guy, as he was counting out green backs, looked at me laughing as well. I don't feel sorry for her in the least that we laughed at her.
In my snootiest Harvard Business man impression voice.
I hear you Scubatim. HA HA HA HA. I mean she doesn't know what a federal reserve note is. Who doesnt call dollars federal reserve notes. HA HA HA HA. Hey guy, What's next, she won't know the difference between a Espresso Macchiato and a Caffé Latte HA HA HA HA HA HA. What an idiot!!
End of sarcasm
Me thinks there is a yuppie with a superiority complex hanging around the debate board.
QUOTE
This might have been off topic, but it does illustrate that kids have been raised in a completely different world and to a completely different standard. I just hope that I can still raise my kids to appreciate failure as much as success, and that they know that they have to earn what is theirs, not that it will be given to them. And I pray to God that they will know what to say if someone asks them the same question as the man in front of me at Subway. By the way, I will be now asking anyone behind the cash register the same question anytime I go to pay with cash, just to see the reaction!
Please, the further back in time you go the dumber people are, the more superstitious they are, and believe me they complained about the generation coming forward just as bad as people here are ragging on Generation "Y"
You know, power likes dummy. Power likes the the guys that gets screwed in the hindparts with no vasiline and says, "Thank you, Sir... Anytime sir.... Can I please get screwed over by you one more time, sir"
We see them as whining, because they are complaining about the messed up thing that the generation before them endured. I call it progress.
It's not Generation Y that's the problem... because they are not making the rules, yet are they??
The progress you suggest is forcing businesses to waste time and money pleasing a bunch of crybabies that think that they don't have to work to get what they deserve. I won't stoop to the level of other's on this thread and call names, so I will be as respectable, yet confrontational as possible. You have classified two groups in the working world here. Power (supposedly the older generations) and gen Y. So the problem here isn't with the whiney brats that have never learned what it means to work hard for anything, or to earn their own way in life, let alone ever had to play a sport where they actually kept score and learned what it means to lose and in turn be disappointed; but the problem is those pesky bosses that enforce those pesky rules that either the business owner has enacted to run his or her own business, or the rules that are approved by that pesky board of directors that answer to the investors that have keen interest in the productivity and profitability of the company? I need help understanding this.
QUOTE(christopher @ Dec 7 2007, 12:05 PM)
Gen Y is doing just fine- even better in that they don't buy the garbage of their older generation.
As for their relaxed attitude and failing to give respect to people who are so very sure they "deserve" respect, More power To Them!
better that attitude than the one whose superiority complex leads them to believe humiliating someone is not only the right thing to do but is actually funny. Maybe in some cases Darwin was wrong.
As for their relaxed attitude and failing to give respect to people who are so very sure they "deserve" respect, More power To Them!
better that attitude than the one whose superiority complex leads them to believe humiliating someone is not only the right thing to do but is actually funny. Maybe in some cases Darwin was wrong.
Coming from someone that has never lauged at someone because they said or did something you found to be stupid? Doubtful, but judge all you want. It still made my day!
QUOTE
As mentioned each generation thinks less of the one before it and even less of the next set.
Gen Y is very suited to the oncoming world and has more basic knowledge about what will be relevant than the older generation needs to take certification classes for.
Gen Y is very suited to the oncoming world and has more basic knowledge about what will be relevant than the older generation needs to take certification classes for.
Yep, for generations, younger people have disrespected their elders because they didn't deserve respect. This is one of the biggest problems with kids today. They have no respect for elders, and no respect for authority. They think the world owes them and that they don't need to "take no crap from anyone", even the one that signs the paycheck. Laughable. Keep up that attitude and they will be in the unemployment line quickly. Then it will be the big bad business owners fault that the kid can't keep a job.
Scubatim- you did hit on something, a bit though- the lexicon of the American language version of English is changing. There used to be a time when paper currencies were called "script"- not slang, and accurate- but not used much today. Same with federal reserve notes- why in the world would a high school student today need to know that nomenclature- UNLESS they are in the field of economics.
The language is in total flux right now, not just due to bad usage, but trying to define and re-define techical advances and terminology.
Scubatim- I think you are WAY off on the generalizations of the gen-yers.
Aevens kind of hit on it- here is the deal- Gen-y-ers have figured out that they owe an employer nothing more than what is expected during work hours- the idea that an employer should be able to run you down after work to require more work is not good work ethic- it is exploitation by the company. You are hired to work 9-5, you shouldn't be expected to work outside those hours, or deal with work outside those hours.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
The language is in total flux right now, not just due to bad usage, but trying to define and re-define techical advances and terminology.
Scubatim- I think you are WAY off on the generalizations of the gen-yers.
Aevens kind of hit on it- here is the deal- Gen-y-ers have figured out that they owe an employer nothing more than what is expected during work hours- the idea that an employer should be able to run you down after work to require more work is not good work ethic- it is exploitation by the company. You are hired to work 9-5, you shouldn't be expected to work outside those hours, or deal with work outside those hours.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Dec 7 2007, 01:01 PM)
Scubatim- you did hit on something, a bit though- the lexicon of the American language version of English is changing. There used to be a time when paper currencies were called "script"- not slang, and accurate- but not used much today. Same with federal reserve notes- why in the world would a high school student today need to know that nomenclature- UNLESS they are in the field of economics.
The language is in total flux right now, not just due to bad usage, but trying to define and re-define techical advances and terminology.
The language is in total flux right now, not just due to bad usage, but trying to define and re-define techical advances and terminology.
Right, except look at any of the bills in your wallet, what does it say on it? I have never actually used the term Federal Reserve Note in serious context and I am not in any economics feild, however I have actually taken the time to know what it is that I am carrying in my pocket.
Younger generations are very in touch with the latest technology, but outside of anything that takes more than two minutes to use or benefit from, it seems that they are way out of touch.
QUOTE(christopher @ Dec 7 2007, 01:05 PM)
Gen Y is doing just fine- even better in that they don't buy the garbage of their older generation.
As for their relaxed attitude and failing to give respect to people who are so very sure they "deserve" respect, More power To Them!
better that attitude than the one whose superiority complex leads them to believe humiliating someone is not only the right thing to do but is actually funny. Maybe in some cases Darwin was wrong.
As mentioned each generation thinks less of the one before it and even less of the next set.
Gen Y is very suited to the oncoming world and has more basic knowledge about what will be relevant than the older generation needs to take certification classes for.
As for their relaxed attitude and failing to give respect to people who are so very sure they "deserve" respect, More power To Them!
better that attitude than the one whose superiority complex leads them to believe humiliating someone is not only the right thing to do but is actually funny. Maybe in some cases Darwin was wrong.
As mentioned each generation thinks less of the one before it and even less of the next set.
Gen Y is very suited to the oncoming world and has more basic knowledge about what will be relevant than the older generation needs to take certification classes for.
Gen Y may have mad Blackberry skillz but that's hardly a replacement for hard or smart work. The 20 hour day dot com days ARE over and for those of us that worked them, we're glad. Probably not as glad a miners were when they were let out of the tunnels but still... So even though they know their way around an Instant Messenger and can whip up a web portal in 30 minutes if they can't spell they're sort of useless. If they don't understand that not everything can be handled in email even if they know ALL the emoticons
:| they tend to be pieces f the solution - worker bees. There's no doubt that every generation is certain they did it better than these damn kids today but there's a big difference in the Gen Y gang. They don't just want it now, they want it for free. The idea of working towards something is pretty foreign. Now as posted up thread, find me a Gen Y who was an athlete, or ex Mil and it's pretty likely that my previous sentence doesn't apply to them - and you still get the mad Blackberry skills!
And you could say the same a generation ago, and a generation before that and so on. The reason is athletics and military lives tend to be rigidly structured which tends to make people rigidly structured in their personal lives. These are the kind of people you want on your team - unless you're in need of some sort of hyper-creative person who's going to be given the leverage to work any hours that suit them - etc.
In the dot com boom I found out that I did some of my best programming/figuring out on the Long Island Rail Road. I came into my office one day to find a triple seat from one of the cars against the wall. That was a "perk" for the quirky guy who worked a lot but didn't talk to too many people. (What with being buried under servers all the time.) The difference was I wasn't asking anyone for the perk. However, I signed onto companies and had them fill the refrigerator with Coke for me as part of my "deal." You could do that stuff then if you were good.
So when my 24 year old Sys Admin tells me he needs a dual core laptop and he'd really like a MacBook Pro too, just because, I'll fill that "perk" because I know that he'll work his butt off if it's necessary. However, my 25 year old dekstop guy won't do a thing that isn't absolutely required - assuming I don't fire him the day after Christmas you can be sure he'll be working on a bare minimum hardware in someone's old chair.
Are all of Gen Y whining losers? No, of course not. The same way all Gen Xers weren't introverted geeks with no social skills.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Dec 7 2007, 01:01 PM)
Aevens kind of hit on it- here is the deal- Gen-y-ers have figured out that they owe an employer nothing more than what is expected during work hours- the idea that an employer should be able to run you down after work to require more work is not good work ethic- it is exploitation by the company. You are hired to work 9-5, you shouldn't be expected to work outside those hours, or deal with work outside those hours.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
As long as those employees don't want to advance and enjoy some of the added benefits that come with advancement such as bigger paychecks, then let them. As a business owner, I wouldn't expect them to work beyond their job description, but those that don't put forth the extra effort (many of which are the younger generation) can watch their peers turn into bosses. If they come and do the minimum, they will recieve the minimum. Confetti and birthday parties are not necessary just because the employee needs some special attention. You want special attention? Go somewhere else. It was my understanding that we were discussing those that expect to get special treatments just because they belong to the business. Those are the whiney brats I was referring to.
QUOTE(scubatim @ Dec 7 2007, 10:18 AM)
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Dec 7 2007, 01:01 PM)
Aevens kind of hit on it- here is the deal- Gen-y-ers have figured out that they owe an employer nothing more than what is expected during work hours- the idea that an employer should be able to run you down after work to require more work is not good work ethic- it is exploitation by the company. You are hired to work 9-5, you shouldn't be expected to work outside those hours, or deal with work outside those hours.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
As long as those employees don't want to advance and enjoy some of the added benefits that come with advancement such as bigger paychecks, then let them. As a business owner, I wouldn't expect them to work beyond their job description, but those that don't put forth the extra effort (many of which are the younger generation) can watch their peers turn into bosses. If they come and do the minimum, they will recieve the minimum. Confetti and birthday parties are not necessary just because the employee needs some special attention. You want special attention? Go somewhere else. It was my understanding that we were discussing those that expect to get special treatments just because they belong to the business. Those are the whiney brats I was referring to.
Look at it this way tim- workers on the bottom wrungs of "good" jobs, say, a mail clerk, laborer or long term fast food worker- no matter what generation, probably don't have the best work ethic.
Yes, you reward good employees, maybe not because they stay for work 20 hours a day, but because you want to retain them.
The ONLY reason a company caters to Gen-yers or anyone else is because they need to retain them, and the company itself has learned that loyalty is bought and earned, like any other commodity.
99% of our managers are baby-boomers- and quite frankly, I can't wait for them to retire and allow more flexible and competant poeple to take over. They expect everything from an employee, including initiative and hard work above and beyond the call of duty, and don't want to give even so much as a "job well done" back.
Gen Yers have learned that corporate america are in it for themselves too, and give no loyalties to the employee, so why is there an expectation that the employee should give back some loyalty?
QUOTE(scubatim @ Dec 7 2007, 02:18 PM)
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Dec 7 2007, 01:01 PM)
Aevens kind of hit on it- here is the deal- Gen-y-ers have figured out that they owe an employer nothing more than what is expected during work hours- the idea that an employer should be able to run you down after work to require more work is not good work ethic- it is exploitation by the company. You are hired to work 9-5, you shouldn't be expected to work outside those hours, or deal with work outside those hours.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
As long as those employees don't want to advance and enjoy some of the added benefits that come with advancement such as bigger paychecks, then let them. As a business owner, I wouldn't expect them to work beyond their job description, but those that don't put forth the extra effort (many of which are the younger generation) can watch their peers turn into bosses. If they come and do the minimum, they will recieve the minimum. Confetti and birthday parties are not necessary just because the employee needs some special attention. You want special attention? Go somewhere else. It was my understanding that we were discussing those that expect to get special treatments just because they belong to the business. Those are the whiney brats I was referring to.
SCUBA, I don't know what your company does... but I think you're missing the mark when it comes to this thread, and I also believe that the articles in the beginning missed it.
The facts are that in today's economy, performance is the key to success. It has little to do with the number of hours of face time you employ.
Check this article out.
http://www.jimpinto.com/writings/compensation.html
Here's another:
http://www.compensationresources.com/press...-workforce-.php
The basic premise is that it's what the output is that dictates who gets promoted.
I USED TO buy into the "long hours" and "late nights" mantra. At times, it's important to understand that long hours = production. However, sometimes working smarter = production.
The reality is that in today's economy, knowledge is just as important as motivation. If you're competent with your industry's technology, sometimes you can make a good living working less. Get it? There were 60-70 hr weeks in my life, and sometimes there still are... but they're rare. I'd put my paycheck up against most on this board and I usually only work 37-42 hrs/week. (but I travel, etc.... so if that counts as work I work more...)
Generation Y is well geared to just this. It's not about whining or sniveling. It's about why people hire Gen Y employees. They have to. Gen Y employees have the skills they need.
I wouldn't ever even mention that they won't get promoted or start their own businesses. Who do you think does a large portion of web hosting and multimedia advertising? We use a guy in NJ that works from his garage, I know he has 3 other big clients (we do business with them too), and by what we pay he probably makes a very good living in his boxer shorts. Why? He knows how to use internet marketing to get results.
I believe that this is the basic recipe for success.
I think what you have to rid yourself of, period, is employees that do the minimum. Because a kid shows up at 830 in a wrinkly shirt and no stays in the collar doesn't make him a bad sales person/tech guru/network administrator/etc-whatever. My guys are really all over the board, from all over the nation and all over the age brackets. There is no "demographic" that makes for a successful employee. Race, age, nationality, yankee or southerner... all play a part but can be molded into a building success.
What matters most for managers is to understand that if you are worried about the wrinkly shirt and no collar stays, about being tardy, etc (all as euphamisms for Gen Y employees)... maybe you're gonna sacrifice something in hiring someone that fits those molds. You can ask a kid to dress a little better for a big meeting, but can you teach an older man to be technically savvy as easily? No. Of course not.
Industrial production and other non-skilled situations probably have a hard time with these kids. Sure- I feel frustrated walking into Home Depot asking for help (and my father works for the darn company). Whatever. I also wanted to kick something when I was in there a few months ago and asked the dude who was about 50 to print off a wedding registry, and it took like 20 min for him to figure out how it worked.
There's a good reason that some of our nation's largest companies have outsourced technical help. It's expensive and cumbersome to start operations abroad. They did it because in many cases, they couldn't get quality and efficient help here. It's our job to mold our children (and employees) into "good help". Many of these kids have what it takes, but you just can't approach them and act like they're 55 and have the same mentality.
Which leads me to my final point... I just thought of it.
Why does anyone think that telecommunting has become prevalent???
Well- because it works. It makes for happy employees who are often times as or more efficient (if you have a good employee).
I have a guy in Vancouver, a guy in DC, and a lady in Seattle who rarely go to the office (DC and Seattle have offices with admins in them... so they go occasionally). Why? They don't have to. They go see customers, etc... but only in the office a few times/month. I have not a clue how many hrs they work. At the end of the month, we talk turkey on $$$, and production. That's it. If they don't make it, they know that they won't have a job. Guess what? They do very well and love it. Two out of 3 are under 30. It's a win-win-win scenario.
QUOTE(aevans176 @ Dec 7 2007, 03:21 PM)
There's a good reason that some of our nation's largest companies have outsourced technical help. It's expensive and cumbersome to start operations abroad. They did it because in many cases, they couldn't get quality and efficient help here. It's our job to mold our children (and employees) into "good help". Many of these kids have what it takes, but you just can't approach them and act like they're 55 and have the same mentality.
Which leads me to my final point... I just thought of it.
Why does anyone think that telecommunting has become prevalent???
Well- because it works. It makes for happy employees who are often times as or more efficient (if you have a good employee).
Which leads me to my final point... I just thought of it.
Why does anyone think that telecommunting has become prevalent???
Well- because it works. It makes for happy employees who are often times as or more efficient (if you have a good employee).
I heartily disagree with you on many of your points here.
1) Outsourcing didn't happen because there weren't enough qualified people, they did it because it was cheaper. Employees in America were expecting to get out of college nab an MCSE and make 90K/yr. The same degree and slightly better English could be had in Bangladesh at a fraction of that price. The reliability of the internet (brought to you on the sweat of Boomers and Xers BTW) made it ridiculously cheap to setup operations abroad. A DS3 and two decent end points and you were in business with college educated people more than willing to work for a 100th of what an American was expecting.
The backlash was and has been fierce. American do not like talking to Raji about their Dell. What they don't know is that while Raji is working them through printing their taxes out, Apu did them because he's H&R Block's outsource for 1040s.
2) Except for JetBlue very few companies have had any success with telecommuting. People are still more productive in their office than distracted in their house (for the most part.) There isn't a single thing I can't do from my house that I can't do from my bedroom and I assure you I'm more productive in the office.
Many companies have done away with telecommuting because the cost, the risk and the "No one could reach you for 3 hours," "Oh I was in the back yard with my daughter" has been more trouble than it's worth. Now JetBlue seems to have worked out a system that is working but, like I said, there are very few other companies able to sustain telecommuting.
That's not to say you can't run a business from your home, but that's not telecommuting - like your boxer short wearing internet guy.
QUOTE(aevans176 @ Dec 7 2007, 03:21 PM)
QUOTE(scubatim @ Dec 7 2007, 02:18 PM)
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Dec 7 2007, 01:01 PM)
Aevens kind of hit on it- here is the deal- Gen-y-ers have figured out that they owe an employer nothing more than what is expected during work hours- the idea that an employer should be able to run you down after work to require more work is not good work ethic- it is exploitation by the company. You are hired to work 9-5, you shouldn't be expected to work outside those hours, or deal with work outside those hours.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
As long as those employees don't want to advance and enjoy some of the added benefits that come with advancement such as bigger paychecks, then let them. As a business owner, I wouldn't expect them to work beyond their job description, but those that don't put forth the extra effort (many of which are the younger generation) can watch their peers turn into bosses. If they come and do the minimum, they will recieve the minimum. Confetti and birthday parties are not necessary just because the employee needs some special attention. You want special attention? Go somewhere else. It was my understanding that we were discussing those that expect to get special treatments just because they belong to the business. Those are the whiney brats I was referring to.
SCUBA, I don't know what your company does... but I think you're missing the mark when it comes to this thread, and I also believe that the articles in the beginning missed it.
The facts are that in today's economy, performance is the key to success. It has little to do with the number of hours of face time you employ.
Check this article out.
http://www.jimpinto.com/writings/compensation.html
Here's another:
http://www.compensationresources.com/press...-workforce-.php
The basic premise is that it's what the output is that dictates who gets promoted.
I USED TO buy into the "long hours" and "late nights" mantra. At times, it's important to understand that long hours = production. However, sometimes working smarter = production.
The reality is that in today's economy, knowledge is just as important as motivation. If you're competent with your industry's technology, sometimes you can make a good living working less. Get it? There were 60-70 hr weeks in my life, and sometimes there still are... but they're rare. I'd put my paycheck up against most on this board and I usually only work 37-42 hrs/week. (but I travel, etc.... so if that counts as work I work more...)
Generation Y is well geared to just this. It's not about whining or sniveling. It's about why people hire Gen Y employees. They have to. Gen Y employees have the skills they need.
I wouldn't ever even mention that they won't get promoted or start their own businesses. Who do you think does a large portion of web hosting and multimedia advertising? We use a guy in NJ that works from his garage, I know he has 3 other big clients (we do business with them too), and by what we pay he probably makes a very good living in his boxer shorts. Why? He knows how to use internet marketing to get results.
I believe that this is the basic recipe for success.
I think what you have to rid yourself of, period, is employees that do the minimum. Because a kid shows up at 830 in a wrinkly shirt and no stays in the collar doesn't make him a bad sales person/tech guru/network administrator/etc-whatever. My guys are really all over the board, from all over the nation and all over the age brackets. There is no "demographic" that makes for a successful employee. Race, age, nationality, yankee or southerner... all play a part but can be molded into a building success.
What matters most for managers is to understand that if you are worried about the wrinkly shirt and no collar stays, about being tardy, etc (all as euphamisms for Gen Y employees)... maybe you're gonna sacrifice something in hiring someone that fits those molds. You can ask a kid to dress a little better for a big meeting, but can you teach an older man to be technically savvy as easily? No. Of course not.
Industrial production and other non-skilled situations probably have a hard time with these kids. Sure- I feel frustrated walking into Home Depot asking for help (and my father works for the darn company). Whatever. I also wanted to kick something when I was in there a few months ago and asked the dude who was about 50 to print off a wedding registry, and it took like 20 min for him to figure out how it worked.
There's a good reason that some of our nation's largest companies have outsourced technical help. It's expensive and cumbersome to start operations abroad. They did it because in many cases, they couldn't get quality and efficient help here. It's our job to mold our children (and employees) into "good help". Many of these kids have what it takes, but you just can't approach them and act like they're 55 and have the same mentality.
Which leads me to my final point... I just thought of it.
Why does anyone think that telecommunting has become prevalent???
Well- because it works. It makes for happy employees who are often times as or more efficient (if you have a good employee).
I have a guy in Vancouver, a guy in DC, and a lady in Seattle who rarely go to the office (DC and Seattle have offices with admins in them... so they go occasionally). Why? They don't have to. They go see customers, etc... but only in the office a few times/month. I have not a clue how many hrs they work. At the end of the month, we talk turkey on $$$, and production. That's it. If they don't make it, they know that they won't have a job. Guess what? They do very well and love it. Two out of 3 are under 30. It's a win-win-win scenario.
Several good points and one terrible one here, aevens176. I've been telecommuting since 2003 and it works much better than the cubicle idea. I save on gas & wear/tear. Saves outfits a barrel of money too. The home office is here and here to stay, thanks to the Internet that I so graciously helped to build in my career.
But I'm sorry. Fifty-five year old techies don't need to be trained. We know it already. The children don't realize that virtually everything that computers are doing today was done in the late 1980s and early 90s on the mainframe, from the viewpoint of systems (logical partitions, clustering, RAID, remote dual copy, remote redundant datacenters). Development has changed. Now programmers aren't supposed to worry about efficiency and apparently whether the stuff works or not. But keep an eye on Google. These people know what they're doing: Set up massively parallel redundant datacenters with bulletproof security and data persistence, then run the things like gigantic application servers. Viola! We're back to the thin-client mainframe model, except better.
Here's another one -- the idea that problems have patterns. For some reason this has become a hot new dot deal in hiring practices, started by Microsoft. Gee, problems have patterns. You mean like say in mathematics? Physics? Chess? Mah Jong? Solitaire? English composition? Driving a car? Like, you know, LIFE?
How brilliant but actually quite ancient. With employers thinking like this (as if it's new), I feel sorry for the new generation of IT workers coming up. I can just imagine what other boneheaded ideas are festering in management land. But then, that was happening when I was there too. Maybe nothing ever does change. It looks new just because one particular generation hasn't seen it before. Or it can be--change it! We can't do it the old farts' way. Eh, human nature.
Well, back to my full lotus position. I have wealth to create, glasshoppah.
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Dec 7 2007, 03:52 PM)
Well, back to my full lotus position. I have wealth to create, glasshoppah.
Hah only some one in their 50s would still be using Lotus! Do you save to 5.25 floppies or to a Novell sever running IPX over token ring?
QUOTE(aevans176 @ Dec 7 2007, 02:21 PM)
QUOTE(scubatim @ Dec 7 2007, 02:18 PM)
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Dec 7 2007, 01:01 PM)
Aevens kind of hit on it- here is the deal- Gen-y-ers have figured out that they owe an employer nothing more than what is expected during work hours- the idea that an employer should be able to run you down after work to require more work is not good work ethic- it is exploitation by the company. You are hired to work 9-5, you shouldn't be expected to work outside those hours, or deal with work outside those hours.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
your work determines your value to the company. If it is good, they can be as "whiny" as they want, as long as the employer needs them.
As long as those employees don't want to advance and enjoy some of the added benefits that come with advancement such as bigger paychecks, then let them. As a business owner, I wouldn't expect them to work beyond their job description, but those that don't put forth the extra effort (many of which are the younger generation) can watch their peers turn into bosses. If they come and do the minimum, they will recieve the minimum. Confetti and birthday parties are not necessary just because the employee needs some special attention. You want special attention? Go somewhere else. It was my understanding that we were discussing those that expect to get special treatments just because they belong to the business. Those are the whiney brats I was referring to.
SCUBA, I don't know what your company does... but I think you're missing the mark when it comes to this thread, and I also believe that the articles in the beginning missed it.
The facts are that in today's economy, performance is the key to success. It has little to do with the number of hours of face time you employ.
Check this article out.
http://www.jimpinto.com/writings/compensation.html
Here's another:
http://www.compensationresources.com/press...-workforce-.php
The basic premise is that it's what the output is that dictates who gets promoted.
I USED TO buy into the "long hours" and "late nights" mantra. At times, it's important to understand that long hours = production. However, sometimes working smarter = production.
The reality is that in today's economy, knowledge is just as important as motivation. If you're competent with your industry's technology, sometimes you can make a good living working less. Get it? There were 60-70 hr weeks in my life, and sometimes there still are... but they're rare. I'd put my paycheck up against most on this board and I usually only work 37-42 hrs/week. (but I travel, etc.... so if that counts as work I work more...)
Generation Y is well geared to just this. It's not about whining or sniveling. It's about why people hire Gen Y employees. They have to. Gen Y employees have the skills they need.
I wouldn't ever even mention that they won't get promoted or start their own businesses. Who do you think does a large portion of web hosting and multimedia advertising? We use a guy in NJ that works from his garage, I know he has 3 other big clients (we do business with them too), and by what we pay he probably makes a very good living in his boxer shorts. Why? He knows how to use internet marketing to get results.
I believe that this is the basic recipe for success.
I think what you have to rid yourself of, period, is employees that do the minimum. Because a kid shows up at 830 in a wrinkly shirt and no stays in the collar doesn't make him a bad sales person/tech guru/network administrator/etc-whatever. My guys are really all over the board, from all over the nation and all over the age brackets. There is no "demographic" that makes for a successful employee. Race, age, nationality, yankee or southerner... all play a part but can be molded into a building success.
What matters most for managers is to understand that if you are worried about the wrinkly shirt and no collar stays, about being tardy, etc (all as euphamisms for Gen Y employees)... maybe you're gonna sacrifice something in hiring someone that fits those molds. You can ask a kid to dress a little better for a big meeting, but can you teach an older man to be technically savvy as easily? No. Of course not.
Industrial production and other non-skilled situations probably have a hard time with these kids. Sure- I feel frustrated walking into Home Depot asking for help (and my father works for the darn company). Whatever. I also wanted to kick something when I was in there a few months ago and asked the dude who was about 50 to print off a wedding registry, and it took like 20 min for him to figure out how it worked.
There's a good reason that some of our nation's largest companies have outsourced technical help. It's expensive and cumbersome to start operations abroad. They did it because in many cases, they couldn't get quality and efficient help here. It's our job to mold our children (and employees) into "good help". Many of these kids have what it takes, but you just can't approach them and act like they're 55 and have the same mentality.
Which leads me to my final point... I just thought of it.
Why does anyone think that telecommunting has become prevalent???
Well- because it works. It makes for happy employees who are often times as or more efficient (if you have a good employee).
I have a guy in Vancouver, a guy in DC, and a lady in Seattle who rarely go to the office (DC and Seattle have offices with admins in them... so they go occasionally). Why? They don't have to. They go see customers, etc... but only in the office a few times/month. I have not a clue how many hrs they work. At the end of the month, we talk turkey on $$$, and production. That's it. If they don't make it, they know that they won't have a job. Guess what? They do very well and love it. Two out of 3 are under 30. It's a win-win-win scenario.
Of course we have all been overgeneralizing Gen Yers in this thread, but my position comes from the general attitude and social abilities of this generation. I am not one to advocate working 60 hour work weeks. My life revolves around my family, and I would never expect anyone to sacrafice theirs for my financial future. My point in all of this is basically repsect and expectations. I don't care if a person has all the relevant knowledge in the industry. We are in front of people every day. We interact with people from infant to grandma. I would think that most other companies have a lot of people that are in front of their customers just as much. Having someone that can't speak to others with respect while representing a company, or someone that is not presentable, or someone with an all around bad attitude is going to be searching for another job. There are millions of kids that will be entering the workforce over the next five years and only so many jobs that need to be filled behind closed doors.
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Dec 7 2007, 04:09 PM)
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Dec 7 2007, 03:52 PM)
Well, back to my full lotus position. I have wealth to create, glasshoppah.
Hah only some one in their 50s would still be using Lotus! Do you save to 5.25 floppies or to a Novell sever running IPX over token ring?
Heh, nope. Web backup for working files, which satisfies DR, USB disk for local backups, which satisfies corruption. Since I'm on Linux now, thinking about broken mirror. BTW, Novell beat Winnie the Poop hands down on the actual technical level. Don't blame us if the world went crazy over Gates. It was just IBM all over again. Yep, and nobody was listening. [up dramatic music] THE FOOLS!
Other things to keep an eye open for: magnetic memory chips (instant-on servers, solid-state disks), optical computers (not just net), molecular switching, DWDM.
It's probably unlikely that most Y types know anything about this stuff. I suppose the attitude is really that the over-50 technical crowd knows TOO much, not that we can't be trained. We can't be AR++'d. The fear of age is the fear of finding out that one is wrong. Can count on the brand spanking new generation just to suck it all up without question.
BTW, I remember when floppies were bigger than 5.25" and compared to 45 rpm records in the tech boilerplate. The removable hard disk pack was the hot new thing. Also, the naming scheme for generations wasn't so degrading to people.
That's seems to be the core to all this generational yipping.
Well Sparky, it's been mildly entertaining. Back to creating wealth
OM
This is a simplified version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.