That's me I'm quoting from the "What are you really?" thread. (What is the BB code to specify who I'm quoting? Can't seem to figure that out.)

Maybe this has already been considered, I don't know, but here's my suggestion:

I'd like the option to identify myself as Libertarian in the Politics line rather than as Independent. Not all libertarians are members of the Libertarian Party, and I don't believe libertarianism fits anywhere on the liberal vs. conservative spectrum. Like many libertarians, I prefer the two dimensional Nolan chart to the left vs. right model.


That's from the freedomkeys.org website, and it's worded much more harshly than I would put it, but I agree with the general sentiment.

Same here, this is a good idea Izdarri! I would classify myself as "slightly libertarian" if I could.

CP

If you have to align libertarians as liberal or conservative then libertarians are liberal on social issues and conservative on economic ones. Individuals should do as they please...providing no one else pays for it.

Exactly so, Hugo. That's why mine says Independent. No choice I saw but to split the difference, but I'm not real happu with that, hence the suggestion.

Libertarian is not a leaning. Libertarian is a party, hence libertarian appearing under "Party Affiliation".

Sorry, this will not be happening any time soon.

Mike

Wrong. There is a Libertarian Party with a capital L. There is also a libertarian philosophy that calls for individual freedom. I do not lean conservative or liberal, I lean very,very heavily libertarian.

I appreciate your opinions. I understand that Libertarians are very passionate about their beliefs.

This, however, seems like a circular debate to me.

Everyone has the option of not filling out the profile fields.

Mike

Ok, fine, be that way!

But many and probably most people who are ideologically libertarian are not members of the Libertarian Party, and though most who've investigated libertarian thought surely know about the LP, are not interested in joining for various reasons. Some perhaps (like me -- I cannot abide Harry Browne's extreme dovishness) because they disagree with certain policy positions. Others because they're unconvinced the LP can be effective (also like me, and like Milton Friedman). Still others because they're anarcho-capitalists who don't believe in voting. Yet all of those non-LP libertarians are libertarians, and are not liberals or conservatives.

You run the place and it shall be as you say, and I have no problem with that. I just want to make sure you understand where I'm coming from before I shut up.

Izzy,
soon-to-be ex-LP member
(when my current membership expires)

P.S.: Saw the Libertarian Debate Forum poll after posting this. So long as we non-LP libertarians are welcome there, I think that will satisfy me. After all, the reason I've decided to work with the GOP is because that's what I currently think is the most effective way to promote those principles we libertarians are so passionate about.

As a relatively new member of Americas Debate I decided to accept your invitation to post constructive "comments and suggestions" in the appropriate forum. So I suggested that "libertarian" be added to the possible declarations in our profiles under "politics." I went on to explain why I thought this might be more accurate and useful in debate. Jaime then answered my post and said that the topic had been considered a year before. She directed me to this thread (which of course I had never seen before) and added that she didn't see why the decision would be changed any time soon. By the time I had reviewed this 10 month old thread and returned to my original thread, Jaime had closed the topic on my original thread. So, since this thread (topic) is still open, I am assuming with the best of intentions that the following be considered to be both new and constructive information and a constructive suggestion! At the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (which I believe was not cited before), I found the following:

Main Entry: lib·er·tar·i·an
Pronunciation: "li-b&r-'ter-E-&n
Function: noun
1 : an advocate of the doctrine of free will
2 a : a person who upholds the principles of absolute and unrestricted liberty especially of thought and action b capitalized : a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles
- libertarian adjective
- lib·er·tar·i·an·ism /-E-&-"ni-z&m/ noun

Please notice that "libertarian" is also listed as an adjective. Please notice also that only when capitalized does "libertarian" refer to a political party. It certainly seems to describe the "principles", "doctrine", "thoughts", "action" and "political" nature neccessary to constitute a "political" "leaning."

Main Entry: pol·i·tics
Pronunciation: 'pä-l&-"tiks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology: Greek politika, from neuter plural of politikos political
1 a : the art or science of government b : the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy c : the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government
2 : political actions, practices, or policies
3 a : political affairs or business; especially : competition between competing interest groups or individuals for power and leadership (as in a government) b : political life especially as a principal activity or profession c : political activities characterized by artful and often dishonest practices
4 : the political opinions or sympathies of a person
5 a : the total complex of relations between people living in society b : relations or conduct in a particular area of experience especially as seen or dealt with from a political point of view <office politics>

At least as much as:

Main Entry: 1lib·er·al
Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lEodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free
1 a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts <liberal education> b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2 a : marked by generosity : OPENHANDED <a liberal giver> b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way <a liberal meal> c : AMPLE, FULL
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS
4 : not literal or strict : LOOSE <a liberal translation>
5 : BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6 a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
- lib·er·al·ly /-b(&-)r&-lE/ adverb
- lib·er·al·ness noun

Or as much as:

Main Entry: 1con·ser·va·tive
Pronunciation: k&n-'s&r-v&-tiv
Function: adjective
1 : PRESERVATIVE
2 a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism : as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE
3 a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners <a conservative suit>
4 : of or relating to Conservative Judaism
- con·ser·va·tive·ly adverb
- con·ser·va·tive·ness noun

Or as much as:

Main Entry: 1mod·er·ate
Pronunciation: 'mä-d(&-)r&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin moderatus, from past participle of moderare to moderate; akin to Latin modus measure
1 a : avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits <a moderate drinker> b : CALM, TEMPERATE
2 a : tending toward the mean or average amount or dimension b : having average or less than average quality : MEDIOCRE
3 : professing or characterized by political or social beliefs that are not extreme
4 : limited in scope or effect
5 : not expensive : reasonable or low in price
6 of a color : of medium lightness and medium chroma
- mod·er·ate·ly adverb
- mod·er·ate·ness noun

Or as much as:

Main Entry: 1in·de·pen·dent
Pronunciation: "in-d&-'pen-d&nt
Function: adjective
1 : not dependent: as a (1) : not subject to control by others : SELF-GOVERNING (2) : not affiliated with a larger controlling unit b (1) : not requiring or relying on something else : not contingent <an independent conclusion> (2) : not looking to others for one's opinions or for guidance in conduct (3) : not bound by or committed to a political party c (1) : not requiring or relying on others (as for care or livelihood) <independent of her parents> (2) : being enough to free one from the necessity of working for a living <a man of independent means> d : showing a desire for freedom <an independent manner> e (1) : not determined by or capable of being deduced or derived from or expressed in terms of members (as axioms or equations) of the set under consideration; especially : having linear independence <an independent set of vectors> (2) : having the property that the joint probability (as of events or samples) or the joint probability density function (as of random variables) equals the product of the probabilities or probability density functions of separate occurrence
2 capitalized : of or relating to the Independents
3 a : MAIN 5 <an independent clause> b : neither deducible from nor incompatible with another statement <independent postulates>
synonym see FREE
- in·de·pen·dent·ly adverb

I believe that the preceding citations from a much utilized and widely accepted source provide clear and convincing evidence that the term "libertarian" does not just describe someone's level of "passion", or one's "Party" affiliation. It is indeed an accurate and useful adjective in describing one's true "political" inclinations. It is at least as accurate and useful an adjective as any of the available alternatives defined above. Certainly no less than "slightly conservative" could be to "Green Party." Or "very liberal" to "Republican Party" I appreciate your reconsideration of the preceeding information as well as my thoughts on the issue! And I most humbly suggest that "libertarian" be added to the choices in the "politics" section of our profiles, in light of the previously unmentioned, highly utilized and respected source? I also humbly ask that you provide an explanation as to reasoning behind your decision, so that I and any other interested members might better understand your reasoning and thereby become more constructive members of this forum in the process.

Sincerely, Argonaut