They didn't seem able to notice the 9/11 hijackers, they were wrong about WMDs -- still none. Now with their estimates for Iran.


Do you have any faith in our Intelligence Community?

How can we gauge if they are being effective? Is it even possible?

Why would anyone have faith in our Intelligence community? Quite frankly- the entire community needs a serious purge of personel, it is a throroughly corrupt organization that has acted more in corporate interests than in American interests many times, since its conception.

We need a honorable president for a change, and someone that will stand up to that organization and basically hold al thier paychecks, pensions, until we get poeple started talking about thier abuses and double dealings.

The CIA has been as evil as Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot in thier dealings abroad, easily causing as much damage, genocide, torture to so very many countries, and we need to deal with that.

Yes. They are obviously far better thasn they were in 1995 when we had a law keeping CIA from sharing info with CIA. They HAVE foiled numerous terrorist plots – so yes they are “better” if not perfect.



By the lack of successful attacks on this country and our interests abroad. Compare now to the 1990s and notice that there is a substantial difference.

How do you know anything that you just posted Ted? What is your independent verification- or you just buy it because they said it? How do you know they actually even foiled one "plot"? Who watches the watchers Ted? You just take their word because they said so?

Hey- Alaska has not had a single Aligator attack in years, I guess we could say that the aligator protection system works, right? The fact that there are no aligators in Alaska has nothing to do with it, right?

Do you have any faith in our Intelligence Community?

I do and I don't. I have faith in the intelligence gathered and analyzed, and in the collection managers, desk officers and analysts that populate those windowless offices in the Northern Virginia area. I believe that most of the rank and file do the best job that they can, and have the best interests of the nation at heart.
I lose faith when that intelligence reaches the Directorate level. That's where it becomes politicized. What gets released to the American public is a political decision. What gets actioned on is a political decision.

How can we gauge if they are being effective? Is it even possible?

It's almost impossible to gauge how effective our intelligence agencies are due to the security classification of actionable intelligence.

We already have Congressional Oversight Committees, but I'm not impressed with the results that we get. I'm left wondering if a permanent, appointed, bi-partisan committee comprised of former representatives, former intelligence experts and scholars would do a better job than our elected representatives.

I am pretty much with you DTOM, as with most rank and file civil servants, while thier upper level managment screw it up again and again.

Here is something. Iran is our enemy today why? Because of evil wrongdoing on the part of the CIA- you know, killing thier elected leaders, installing a despot, stealing thier oil. It is not because of freedom, or any of the other "great Satan" issues- it is because the CIA meddled in thier affairs- and now we are supposed to believe the CIA why?

Do you have any faith in our Intelligence Community?

I'm pretty sure that such a community exists. My certainty that useful intelligence is gathered and analyzed is a little less, but oh give them the benefit of the doubt. I bet that reports reach the politicians that point out possible threats to the nation. In fact, the politicians told us that way too many reports on possible threats cross their desks, and thus no real concern about Osama b. Ladin until after 9/11. Now I hear that our intelligence community has pointed out that Iran doesn't have a nuclear program, but I read in the papers that Russia has shipped nuclear fuel over there. Huh. What's that for?

Other than that I have no faith. It's all been delegated to other more interesting subjects.

How can we gauge if they are being effective? Is it even possible?

No, that's not possible. We have no way of knowing what's going on due to the ultra super secret nature of the beast. I'd even get paranoid about this if I thought it mattered. As it is, I'll just stay skeptical about what my government tells me and try to figure out the real motivations behind the propaganda, maybe wave to the spy satellites now and then.

I have posted to this – TRY reading it.

You seem to ignore anything that disagrees with your view and as other have pointed out you post nothing but personal attacks and you opinion.

If you disagree with the stories the POST something to support your view rather than attacking everyone.

I did post the follow up to one of your stories- you know, the 7 guys that were arrested, one aquitted, 6 mistrials, though they never contacted Al-Quaida , didn't have any bomb making materials, didn't have any money, etc etc- they were high value targets for sure- good thing we spent millions stopping the imagined plot!

Let's go over thier past stupidity shall we? Claimed WMD in Iraq- outright lie, or total incompetance?

Destroyed Guatemala for about 50 years for the Chiquita banana corporation- how many hundreds of thousands of dead women, children and innocent is the Chiquita banana corporation worth Ted?

Iran- toppled the goverment to install a dictator- you know, that Shah guy, and the blowback we are dealing with today. Why should we trust them on Iran again now? I mean, they have done enough damage- what we should do, is round up the agents involved with Guatamala and Iran and offer them up to the Hague for war crimes- NOT listen to what they have to say

The CIA is as evil as any other secret organization with near total power and ability to destroy poeple and nations. You can claim it is for good intentions or whatever- but in the end, the CIA has been responsible for as many atrocities as any other monster in history.

Mostly because poeple in the US keep believing that line of bullcrap.

I mean, we are talking about an organization that lies and distorts reality for a living, usually for corporate interests rather than US interests. Why should we start believing them now?

Why would I have faith in something that rarely, if ever, tells me information of value especially with regard to what they are doing in my name with my money? So, no.

How can I gauge something that does not inform me with regard to its doings? So, no. We cannot gauge the effectiveness of the intelligence community unless it reports to its employers [us].


CP

Do you have any faith in our Intelligence Community?
It is a secret community. Therefore there is no comprehensive public oversight, or at least the information doesn't trickle down far. I have no way of telling except from the few publicized screw-ups and hearsay from "experts" who claim to be on the pulse of it.

How can we gauge if they are being effective? Is it even possible?
There is some information. Give it your best guess. It is possible if you believe in guessing.

The intelligence community is made up of many parts besides the CIA and the CIA itself is a diverse organization. As has been stated above, the covert branch of the CIA has done despicable things in Iran, in Guatemala, in Latin America generally, and though-out the world generally. At the same time, the covert branch has been very weak in fulfilling its legitimate role of gathering human intelligence. The analytical branch of the CIA, on the other hand, mostly sifts though open source material and has been much more reliable. Similarly, the State Departments intelligence service has been generally competent. The technical branches of the intelligence services like the Defense Intelligence Agency and the intelligence analysts within the Department of Energy have been generally competent but so hidden from view that their political role, if any, is hard to discern.

The main distortion of the intelligence community from its proper role, of keeping the political leadership informed of what is going on throughout the world, has been through the improper use of intelligence services for political ends. Allen Dulles, Eisenhower's CIA Director, begin this corruption in Iran and Guatemala. It was also evident in Vietnam under Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon and was blatant under Reagan in Central America and Iran-Contra. The current administration has sought to manipulate the product of all branches of the intelligence community to support its goals. It was successful in doing this in the run-up to the Iraq aggression but has run into resistance with its attempt to do the same thing with respect to Iran. Rather than condemn the intelligence community generally, we need to expose and criticize those parts that behave irresponsibly and support wholeheartedly those parts that try to produce a competent product and resist political manipulation.

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I generally agree but fail to see how Bush tried to manipulate the intel folks on Iran. The current NIE does not say that Iran is a good neighbor and not seeking nukes. Only that they suspended their “program” – coincidentally (with Syria) right after we enterer Iraq) – and with “moderate” confidence that they have not started it up again.

If you believe that Iran is not doing all they can to reach their goal of nukes then I disagree.