I came across thisarticle today. The gist of it is that a spokesman for the victims of 9/11 does not want an additional memorial at the site to honor the police, fire and ems members who died that day.

I think there is a significant difference between those who died trying to rescue the victims of the attack and those who died 'just' because they were there.

As the author says, it's a difficult subject, but I see a difference. I don't believe an additional memorial minimizes any other memorial in any way.

You?








y

As much as I will draw some flak for say this I think on a whole western culture makes people into heroes way too easily anyways. Yes firemen and police officers are heroes, but I for one don't think that the firemen and policemen of NY deserve to be placed on some sort of special pedestal. Police and Firemen risk their lives helping other people all the time; some knowing that they were in extreme danger and some not. It's not like all the men who died in the towers knew it was going to collapse right there and thought "well I'm gonna do everything I can to save those innocent people!"

I think by making them into these legends you're devaluing the contributions of anyone who has risked their lives to save a complete stranger as part of their job.

Hmmm, not sure how I feel about this honestly.

But I can say this: I am kind of offended that this request is being made by the victims families...the ones who's sons, daughters, husbands, wives, etc were rescued that day by rescuers who WENT BACK IN...and never came back out.

I figured gratitude would last forever. Guess not.

Personally, I don't care whether or not the rescuers have a seperate memorial. But it seems pretty disrespectful for these people to fight against it...

--cheers

I'd want to know more of their reasoning before I criticized it. I really dissapprove of the article saying that those men died "willingly" as if they threw themselves on a grenade. They had no idea the building was coming back down.

Do you honestly believe that the emergency peoples that we called to the towers looked at it and said, "Well, this building looks pretty solid to me. . .". The simple fact of the matter is that they went into those buildings and saved the people they did without a consideration to how bad the building was damaged. And they gave their lives in the pursuit of saving others from buildings that sent most people running and screaming. I think there should be two memorials because it was not just a day of tragic loss, it was a day of heroic bravery and selflessness. . .both of these aspect deserve to be recognized.

-Kisov

Thanks for putting words in my mouth... it's a shame that they don't actually represent what I am saying. Those men (and women) surely knew that the building COULD come down, but they didn't know that they would; and that myth devalues the lives and deaths of every other person who puts their life on the line every day.

Sorry Joey, but your statements don't make much sense. Those brave men and women entered high rise buildings that were on fire. A fire so devastating in intensity that people were leaping to their death from 90 floors up.

Now, the fact that they didn't know those buildings were going to come down is of no importance. So how is it that not knowing somehow makes their actions less heroic or devaluing to others in that service?

Don't call me Joey. Seriously. I hate it.

Your comprehension of my statements is either handicapped by your zeal to discredit me or by your reading skills because you have interpretted it all wrong.

The facts of the situation obviously devalue nothing. The MYTH that they marched bravely to death to save all those innocent people does. Firefighters and policemen, amongst other groups risk their lives on a daily basis across the planet. They know they COULD die, but at the same time they don't exactly say "I don't care if I die as long as I save as many people as possible." I know cops. I know firefighters. Except for the brave nutballs who don't last long that is not the thought process.

By furthering the myth that the men involved in the WTC acted out of complete selflessness knowing that they WOULD die you elevate them above all of the other brave men and women who have died in the line of their duties, as well as those who have been fortunate enough to escape death in the performance of their jobs.

MusingfromtheMiddle - I have defended you when someone mocked your member name in the past. I expect you to give the same respect and call people by the name they want to be called. You can debate without using diminutives.

Wow, here we go again. My apologies about the 'joey'. That happens to be my name too and that's what many people call me. I meant no disrespect for sure. Just as with the 'liberal' thingy. No offense was meant there either.

Now, as for your post. My reading skills are fine, it's your position that's flawed. It was no 'myth', they did march bravely to their death in an effort to save others. The comparison is not to other police officers and firefighters in other places. It is actually a comparison to the deaths of those who just happened to be at the WTC at the time. And I am in no way minimizing those deaths either, especially since many of those people surely died while trying to save others themselves.

Just a suggestion UJ (is that ok????) since it seems that many people 'don't understand what you are saying' as you so often come back and tell us....maybe you need to do a better job of putting your thoughts into print here.

The "many people" refer to I can number using the fingers left over from a curveball-grip.

Those men (and women) knew the building would eventually come down, but they didn't march in to certain death in their eyes, and you're doing a disservice to a great many people by suggesting that they did.

Ultimatejoe, how do you figure I was putting words in your mouth. . .I was merely quoting exactly what you said. So, I didn't put words in your mouth. . .I put your words in your mouth.

Secondly, I don't think that anybody, who works for the public safety, has any disillusions of the danger inherently involved in their chosen occupation. Certainly, there is not a cop I work with, that believes that the armored vest he/she is wearing is just for decoration. But, I don't think any agent of public safety, that went to work in New York on 9/11, ever thought that their job would require that they deal with such a perilous and terrifying situation! No amount of training could prepare anyone for that, and public service certainly isn't the highest paid profession in the world. . .so to say that they were just doing what they are paid to do doesn't quite figure into it.

-Kisov

Lets take a look at your "qoutation"...

What I said:

What you said:

Sorry, I guess I don't speak the NEW english... Then again I never said

either... I merely said that those men took the same risk as A) the firefighters and other rescue workers who survived and the thousands of other firefighters, police officers etc., that risk their lives every day.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't remember them, and that a memorial is a bad thing. I just think that it is wrong to place them on such a high pedestal because of the circumstances they were in.

I see no difference between a victim who died in the towers because he worked there, and a victim who died in the towers because his work took him there.

They should all share a single monument as equals.

UJ, I submit this post as a good example of one that lends itself to being misunderstood. I have no idea who you are replying to, nor what you are trying to say. And I'm sure that if anyone 'misunderstands' what you think you said you will come back and accuse him of not being able to read.

No, just you. Oh by the way, check out the last line of my sig.

While I do see a difference between someone who died "heroically" while eating a bagel and processing someone's insurance claim and someone who ran into a burning building to pull out survivors, I feel that there is too much emotion invested in the September 11 attack itself to distinguish among its victims. I lost a cousin, a fireman, in the WTC and I'm sure he would be as happy to share a memorial with those he was trying to save as with those who were working by his side. As moif put it, some died because they worked there, some because their work took them there - and they all share a common grave.