We have had discussions recently about the media in it's left or right leaning bias, and every once in a while, I see posts in various threads eluding to a particular bias at our universities. So I will get right to the point.

Questions for debate:

1)Do you think American universities in general encourage a certain political ideology either through the actual education, or through the general viewpoints, policies, tolerance and overall culture of the university?

2)What basis do you come to your conclusion?

*By culture, I intend it's use as in the following definition found on Merriam Webster:

Universities are of all stripes. In the 60s, UC Burkeley had a reputation of being a liberal hotbed, but that was balanced by such as Oral Roberts, Brigham Young and Bob Jones. Bias to some degree is going to depend on location and ownership, etc.

We should also note that students are in a stage in life where they are finding their way, this exploratory element could be falsely interpreted as liberalism

You have asked questions that don’t lend themselves to simplistic answers, but oh well, we must find a liberal conspiracy somewhere.

Edited to add:

Time context is also important. For example, campuses in an era without the military draft are different than those that existed when we didn't have a draft.

I am not looking for simplistic answers at all. I am interested in discussing all facets of the topic. As you point out, it can depend on the locale of the university. I am sure there are those here that might disagree with you. A lot of what you can find on the subject would make you believe that universities as a whole are biased. That doesn't make it true. I am interested in see who takes what position, and the reasons behind it. I am not trying to call anyone out, or to catch anyone. I think this is a topical issue, and it deserves debating.

Now, in response to your post, these students that are finding their way are also very impressionable at this point in their lives. Many may not have ever really given politics a good look. For those in that category, unless they are educated on all political views, are they getting a fair shake? If some Right-Wing pundit only talks up the issues of the conservative ideology as it pertains to the science, history, sociology class, and makes over-dramatic claims of how great Republicans are, is that balanced education? These youth are impressionable, and a balanced education is what we should expect.


Who made some reference to a liberal conspiracy? I think the opening post was very objective. I asked if there was a political bias, not a liberal bias. You jumped to conclusioins, not me.

As far as the time context, I will clarify that I am discussing today's universities. Not universities from 60 years ago. I am talking about current events and times.

This left versus right mantra has the electorate chasing ghosts. Inside big corporate business is running media and both major political parties. It is the wrong question to address the train wreck that we have in Washington D. C. .

It also has trickled into our universities. Universities seem to produce conformists thinking instead of creative thinking. It is not left/right but corporatism.

Be sure to use Radio Buttons next time.

They only allow one vote per.

And ScubaTim... Many leading Universities lean left. (Columbia for instance.) Duh. This is hardly a question.

I would agree that many universities get the lable of liberalism, but how many universities are there in the United States? I will concede that Columbia is pretty much on the left side of the spectrum, but isn't Bob Jones pretty much on the other side? Is there a balance, or are conservative colleges in the minority?

I agree that the popular perception is that higher education leans left but like BoF I think that's simply a sign of superficial analysis of the situation.

How do these universities lean left?

There's a question.

I think what you see is mostly a geographical and departmental pattern.

New England parts of Cali are some of the most liberal parts of the country. They happen to also have great universities.

Social science departments tend to lean left, mostly I think because of the acknowledgment that liberalism (especially social liberalism) has been a force for a lot of progress in the country.

Economics is an exception as many of the basic economic ideas were formed by conservatives.

...and of course social liberalism has always been stronger in the youth as they are at the forefront of changing traditions.

It's a patchwork quilt of loyalties.

I am not discussing Washington D.C., I am talking about the college or university in your town. I am talking about the institutions that are supposed to be molding our future leaders. Washington is a mess, and has it's own plethora of problems.

I hope the problem isn't as simple as blame the big corporations.


The location of these colleges and universities only plays a small part. Are all of the faculty originally from these areas, or have some migrated from other parts of the country, or even the world to take a job there? I don't think locale is a big enough influence on the topic given the fact that students and faculty come from around the globe to either attend or work at these institutions.

Even with the reasons given, is it fair to our youth to teach only one ideology?

Another point, who says that social liberalism has made progress in this country? Don't you think that there is a large number of people that would not only find that statement to be very much opinionated, but also wrong? Why must social science be taught that liberalism is best for our country?

That's certainly a good point and something I considered before answering.

It seems to me though a chicken or the egg question. I think the liberal character of the area is what attracts the liberal faculty and students to begin with. Higher education has a substantial lifestyle component when it comes to the top schools.

You see a lot of conservatives attracted to the military for similar reasons.

Even with the reasons given, is it fair to our youth to teach only one ideology?
I'm an engineering major so all I can do is relay the experiences of the social science majors I know. Most colleges don't teach any particular ideology at all. One can pick up on it when interacting with professors, but this isn't indoctrination.

Another point, who says that social liberalism has made progress in this country? Don't you think that there is a large number of people that would not only find that statement to be very much opinionated, but also wrong? Why must social science be taught that liberalism is best for our country?
That's just the way history has broken. Granted abolitionist were a mixed bag but but post-slavery liberals have been on the front lines of civil rights for women and minorities which has made a fundamental difference in the character of the country.

Big business has crept into the university. Dollars from business are used for research. Academics do try to keep science and money sources separate but they do know where their funding is coming from. The pressure is there.

The university student is no longer considered to be the likely eye of the storm for challenging the status quo. When is the last time you heard of a political gathering at your local college?

I spoke with a group of a dozen university attending students who were playing frisbee with my son and daughter and asked them about current politics. Silence and vague nods were all I got to questions I made to the group. It is empirical evidence but I expect is the norm.

I don't go into this debate thinking that professors are teaching from the Democratic handbook, but some have found that dissenting ideas have been pushed down. I have read claims that grades suffered due to non-conformist ideas. I will get sources at a later time as I am rushed right now.

I will agree that the liberal push for civil rights has benefited our country, even though the job isn't done. However, some would point out the social entitlement programs pushed by liberals have increased our national spending exponentially, thereby increasing our taxes. Some might think this as a regressive move. I doubt that point of view is often taught in social science classes.

Depends on the student's major. Political science and economics majors may well delve into the pros and cons of governmental spending. Whether it be social or military.

General study courses are necessarily more superficial interested primarily in the "what" not the "how".

So we have briefly discussed the academic aspect of the debte, what about the cultural aspect? Anyone have a position on whether or not universities are more tolerant to either a liberal or conservative environment?

Fine. I started college 46 years ago not 60 and finished my last graduate classes in 1983, 25 years ago. Do you think we would have the same turmoil on campuses today if we reintroduced the draft during our current war?


Assuming that is true in liberal arts departments, wouldn’t that be balanced by what is taught in a university schools of business?


So, Turnea gives his perspective as an engineering major. What can you scubatim offer us from your college experience to shed some light on the matter? Your experience must have been more recent and perhaps relevant than mine from 60 years ago.

Edited to add:

I don't need to know about possible frat house escapades.

I do remember in my differential equations classes the professors injecting their differential to government policy... now I agree my geology was definitely over the edge they had the nerve to state the earth was not flat... too funny this right wing conspiracy. Maybe the right would be well advised to read about Olin and his hundreds of millions of expenditures and many other of the right to infiltrate with spending their political agenda into schools. Could the right show me one partisan liberal doing the same....

also too funny, seems that these so called or inferred liberal teachers forcing indoctrination are failing if we use the elections of the presidents over the last 30 years as a accurate gage of success.

the only brain washing I know is effective in a education is the military in basic training.

This debate isn't about what could happen if this happened, or what ifs, I am talking about the current state of affairs. If you want to discus all the what ifs, start another thread. I asked if our current universities are biased, and if so, which why do they lean, and what basis did you use to come to your conclusion.


If the liberal arts students also took classes at the business classes, maybe. However, topics covered in liberal arts classes are not the same as the topics covered in business college. What is so hard about professors leaving their political ideology at the door and teach the entire subject, not just one theory?


Why is talking about the current state of affairs at our current universities so difficult? I have had experience of a lower grade due to dissenting thought. I wrote a paper on privatizing Social Security, and I received a 'C'. Not on content, grammar, spelling, or format. The only 'red ink' was the instructor's disagreement with my position. If I had not written the paper in proper format, had numerous spelling errors or grammatical errors, I could see why I would deserve the lower grade, however, from her feedback, nothing of the sort was noted. It was a English Comp class. This was two years ago.

did you ever take into consideration they grade on logic expressed in a paper. Grammar and spelling are not the only part of sentence/document. Please post this document so we may evaluate it.

as we know schools are basically funded and run locally, and within the state. Now have you ever noticed the red state schools have the lower in general test scores. Have you ever noticed that red schools do not have the top universities. that red states in general are the welfare states IE net takers from the USA.


I have bolded a section above. since you claim to be such a perfect grammar expert, could you explain yourself. please let me quote your statement...
http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index...3631&st=140
so please post your college manifesto you claim you were subjected to political bias so we can conclude. see hypocrisy is also something a teacher may take into consideration.

Are you complaining about STs lack of a question mark? Where does he claim to be a "perfect grammar expert"? It's nice to be able to read people's posts without the constant eyesore of numerous misspellings (not typos) and utterly bizarre usage.

Chances are good ST's not far off in his assessment. I handed in the same Sociology paper (back in the day) to three different professors in three different classes. Affirmative Action Is Dead got two As and an F. When I showed the F to professor I was friendly with she said, "What do you expect? Professor Blahblah can't grade without his political compass. I was able to fight the grade to a C. It does happen.

However, it might be fun to see the Paper.

Sometimes it isn't all that simple. Professors sometimes grade papers that ask for a position, not on the position taken, but how well the writer defends that position. This would include the number and quality of sources used - credibility! Did you attempt to talk to the professor about the grade?

For what it's worth, my professors - from uh 60 years ago - did mark problems with style and grammar. For instance if someone spelled "label," “lable" that would be red lined. Here's another example. Yesterday I mistyped Berkeley. Although I caught my own mistake the editing window wouldn't let me change it. This would have been red line when I was in college.



I once had a professor complain that my right margin was .25" too small.

The point is, students should not get paranoid if a professor gives a paper a bad grade.

It seems to me, scubatim that this thread is the product of receiving a mediocre grade on one college paper. Are you grinding an ax? One professor does not a university make.

As this thread unfolds, my original statement below seems to have been vindicated.


Edited to add information.

I answered "on the fence". This is opinion, but i believe education and college pushes a liberal slant innately. But how do I prove this?? I'm stuck on that part.

What is deemed Liberalism isn't pushed, it just comes with education, with the willingness to broaden your scope of thinking to outside yourself, your life, your country, your values... and so on. And when I say education I'm in line with Turnea a bit. More like the liberal studies.

Say someone goes to college with the intent of getting a business degree. I can't see a liberal slant in these courses. However, to get the degree you have to likely take other courses in social sciences. And these courses, i believe, have innately what the right deems to call a liberal slant.

Imagine seeing humans as, I don't know..., Human. Not just out fighting for EVIL, but actually fighting for a cause that they believe in.

Let's talk about faculty. I think the nature of being a teacher/professor is going to appeal to the liberal side of us. We all have liberalism and conservatism in us. It just depends on the subject. You can be anti-gun, and pro-choice. You can b e anti-death penalty and anti-abortion. But teacher and professor tends to be one of those paths that puts someone in atmosphere of many ideas, ideas that are valid even when not held. The exchange of ideas itself the constant bombardment of different views will promote liberalism, because this is the very nature of liberalism and how it differs from conservatism.

Also simply going into a profession that in many respects cares about the development of other people outside oneself is likely going to appeal to a liberal minded person more so than a conservative.

Then we can debate how many Universities strive for diversity. And how diversity often breeds liberalism as one can conclude by looking at the most diverse cities are also diverse.

make the comparison
http://www.govpro.com/News/Article/31439/
http://www.city-data.com/top35.html

Look at diverse citieis in the plus 100 thousands and count the number number of "liberal" cities that are often divers cities, there are a few. Not one of the conserative cities made it to be a diverse city. Why do you think that is??

If you don't feel like going throught the trouble just go with plain ol' noteriety. As many of our greatest cities are also what?? That is right... liberal!!

So it could just be the combination of diversity and cultures that promote liberalism as well.

1)Do you think American universities in general encourage a certain political ideology either through the actual education, or through the general viewpoints, policies, tolerance and overall culture of the university?


One of the hardest parts of a debate like this is- what is a liberal, what is a conservative, and how do we know them? On a recent poll, the candidates the quiz indicated to me as most suited to my ideology was, in order: Duncan hunter (never even read about that one)- Dennis Kucininch and Ron Paul. Dennis may be called a liberal- but the other two are certainly NOT liberal, by any classical definition. Politicians that have called themselves "conservative" in the last several elections, generally were just as big goverment as any LBJ era politician, but they just didn't want to spend it on the poor- they want to spend it on thier people instead- there is no real difference between each other than the intended targets.

So how would I even know a "liberal" scholar- especially if he is teaching some subject based on empirical studies or evidence?

I ask this, because a psych prof I had was accused of being "liberal" because he testified to our state house and senate on some tobacco related issues- and he had several peer reviewed long term studies to back up his case- he wasn't advocating a law- he was just explaining the evidence as it was presented- but boy, was he drug through the mud for being anti-tobacco in his presentation!

I had his class, and he NEVER advocated for ANYONE to "believe" anything- he was teaching a freshman course, and was much more interested in teaching students the basics of the foundations of psych and the terms and how to go to original sources in our consortium library.

Alaska is a very libertarian state- and our university is extremely "getting a damn job" oriented- in other words- they are interested in building careers, not controversy.

I have never recieved a grade on a paper than may have had some political content that I didn't deserve- they graded me on an even and fair criteria, that usually had nothing to do with my point of view- just my professional presentation of that view.

I am a 42 year old returning student, and I am having to take some elective courses that are "liberal arts" classes- and though there is the occasional GW joke, or pointed remark- there was NO bias in grading or penalties for an ultra-right wing student here or there.

To my own chagrin, some of the stupidest comments I have ever heard come out of someone's mouth in a class were by some fellows I know from my "libertarians on campus" club debates. - makes you remember that the libertarian party, um, occasionally atracts some real whack jobs.

But suffice to say- in my two years now as a returning student, including my artsy fartsy classes, I have not seen any bias in any manner whatsoever outside of an occasional GW joke- and that came pretty fast and furious to the former bank president that is teaching business and personal finance!

I got an A in all my business classes, and I detected no bias of any sort in any of those classes.

My welding and non-destructive classes are so a-political I don't think I could tell you a darn thing about what any prof thinks of any political issue- we are all into the welding so far, I know what a guild feels like- and I love it!

My engineering classes are too damn hard- is that a bias? - It is just the facts sir, and nothing but the facts.

2)What basis do you come to your conclusion?

At this point- experiance. The most touchy class for politics is my required history classes for my degree- I have to take 2-3. I choose them by the work load- the less the better.

Each and every prof I have had, as I have dropped two of these before the cut off date due to to much workload (too many papers for a freshman class ) - until I found a prof that assigned less homework. The head of the department loaded us up too much, but he was still an outstanding professor and his presentatiobn was beyond good. But all of them made great pains to say "History can be very controversial, if you wish to put your viewpoint in your papers on some historical item, and you do not agree with the presented material- that is welcomed, as some of the best science comes from those with a contrary view. But those very good historians also were prepared to do the work to prove that point. You should be as willing".

I do love my classes and university, and am having one of the best learning experiances of my life, and am very proud of my university. And I detect no bias that would affect a grade or the material presented.

We've got a pretty good mix of higher education around here. There's UCCS, which is your typical college campus with a broad range of degree programs; there's the Colorado College which is famously liberal and concentrates on the liberal arts; you can go to PPCC and learn a trade or get an associates degree; you can go to Colorado Tech and get certs in technologies, mostly IT, or you can get your brain in shape at a number of smaller colleges.

So, is college liberal or conservative? I give. Maybe both? Maybe neither? It depends. I got a D in English Poetry because I wrote a critical analysis of a Keats poem.

Cortez DID NOT DISCOVER THE PACIFIC OCEAN

Yeah, I was right, the professor was wrong and so there you go. Was that conservative or liberal?

Neither. The professor liked Keats, that's all. It's prejudice but it's neither liberal nor conservative. So one learns to write toward the professors' prejudices, and you ace the courses. It's a fine education in delivering what the customer expects, except you get to pay for the privilege in college. In return you just might learn something. Is that conservative or liberal?

Beats me.

Do you see this as an attempt by the professor to indoctrinate you and other students? If so, why was indoctrination - a “synonym” for educate wrong in this instance, but perfectly ok with you in the thread linked below?

http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index...c=15833&hl=

How do you square the apparent contradiction?

Actually I had forgotten about that paper until we started going over personal experiences in this thread, but thanks for jumping to conclusions again. I have not said that universities are blatantly liberal. I have asked a question, and you have become defensive.

Like I said before, in my particular situation, there was no marks for grammar, spelling, or format. The only red ink was based on the position I took on an issue. This was an English Comp class, not a political science class.

This will be the last time I address your paranoia about an ax to grind or a liberal conspiracy theory with you, so if it appears I am ignoring you, you might be right, just as I am ignoring Inventor.


Thank you for your intelligent response, droop, it is a breath of fresh air, and I am not being sarcastic.

I think this section of your post is my point. Especially the exchange of ideas. Many people would argue that as long as the exchange of ideas conform to the ideology of the professor, the exchange is welcome, dissenting ideas or ideology are not welcome. Finding examples of this for reference is going to take more than a few clicks on google, I think we can agree. Now, I agree with the name Horowitz attached, many people will write this website off, however, this link is a collection of small town and school papers as well as major publications. These stories are examples of why I started this thread. I am sure there are those stories collected that may be over the top and even untrue, but there has to be the realization that there is some truth to the claims. I personally would believe more stories than not, but we all have our own opinions.


No, I see it as the professor grading on political ideology, not content or structure.

The numbers speak for themselves:

Masked Marxism? The effects of political affiliation of professors on campus (Jones)

The leftist bias of prefessors is hypocritical
”t cannot be disputed that the vast majority of college professors are adherents of left-wing politics. Yet, since this is the kind of self evident statement so commonly disputed by left-wingers, let us investigate further.

The recent "Almanac Issue" of The Chronicle of Higher Education revealed that 47.6 percent of professors describe themselves as "far left" or "liberal." Only 17.7 percent self identify as "conservative" and 0.3 percent as "far right." In a country which is 15 percent liberal, 45 percent moderate and 40 percent conservative, the disparity is shocking.

A recent report (see www.frontpagemag.com) released by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture surveyed the faculty at 32 elite colleges and universities, including Amherst, Cal-Berkeley and some Ivy League schools. At these universities, the "ratio of Democrats to Republicans...was more than 10-to 1." At some universities, it was an astonishing 30-to-1. For the country as a whole, the Democrat/Republican split is very nearly 50/50.”
http://media.www.dailyutahchronicle.com/me...ne-461338.shtml

You know what those numbers say to me?

Liberal = educated.

Thanks for contributing to the conversation.


I read that information in a different article, and since it was an op-ed, I decided against using it. I did however, find a non op-ed that used studies and research, which I am happy to share. http://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr2007/trt.html
I find this quote to be especially humorous:

The first point is refuted later in the study. The second point basically says, if there is evidence, it is worthless. Doesn't that just counter the point that they made in the first point? The third I find quite disturbing. Don't we have set standards or criteria that our educators have to adhere to, or do they just get to do whatever they see fit? And if all else fails, go with the fourth point; blame the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"! It should be noted that: AAUP is the counter to the Students for Academic Freedom.

Now on to the information found in the study. To support the information that Ted provided with his article:

More:

One more:

This can go on and on, but I know everyone can read, so feel free to read the study that is being reported. If you want, I can come back and post more results of the studies. The 18 studies that were used for this article are at the bottom if you want to research their research.

Ya I read it as educated = liberal indoctrination.

I was in college in the early 70s in Boston where the professors were so left many were card carrying Communists and proud of it.

As I said the numbers above speak for themselves and tell you the depth of the incredible left bias of higher education.

I have kids in grade and high school now and even there the bias is obvious.

Are their some “conservative” or neutral schools – sure – a very few.

what is also funny is how can a un-educated republican do a study when they do not have the brains to from the above data.... If all the smart people are democrats what does that leave in the republican party?

again it is too funny to see the engineering teachers inferred as putting in a political bias. just as I pointed out with my differential equations teachers would have a hard time fitting in rovian law with fitts law. I know in my electrical engineering courses in doing nodal equations we could slip in a bit of warring or colliding electrons. Or in my mechanical engineering classes we tested the compression strength of idealogical ideas.

and back to my point, if they were trying to put a political spin (not orbital in chemistry) these smart people are awfull stupid, as the last 30 years it is more republicans to democrats. Gee maybe someone better tell these conspiracy wackos that do research to see how many engineering professors are voting dem it is not relevant to the outcome.... seems inversely proportional to a degree...

1)Do you think American universities in general encourage a certain political ideology either through the actual education, or through the general viewpoints, policies, tolerance and overall culture of the university?

2)What basis do you come to your conclusion?

I think that most universities have a culture that could be described as "liberal," "progressive," or even "leftist." I don't think most professors try to indoctrinate their students in this, but the studies are pretty clear that university professors lean left politically.

I graduated 16 years ago. I only recall one professor who injected any political content into class, and it was quite benign. This was an English course on southern literature, and he talked a bit about the Civil Rights movement, which he'd had some part in. There certainly wasn't any politics in any of my math or science courses (though the physics lab TAs were hard enough to understand that they might have tried to slip something in ).

Still, there was a general culture that said that liberal was good and smart, and conservative was bad and stupid. I was more liberal than conservative, but skeptical of both -- a libertarian recovering from an Ayn Rand phase. I remember being stunned by the illiberalism of some people who called themselves liberals. The campus conservative newspaper had its entire production run stolen and thrown away on more than one occasion. Conservative organizations were targeted to have their funding pulled, successfully as I recall. Liberal political organizations, of course, were never under such a threat. Conservative guest speakers were disrupted by the usual campus radicals.


inventor, I actually agree with you on something! I think when the political left took over the universities a few decades back, it was a disaster for their cause. Students, and young people in general, live to rebel against the entrenched authorities. When the authorities in academia moved to the left, they became the new status quo to rebel against.

wow I am almost impressed.... not...

after another second of thought, it hits me as this data seems to be a perfect example of how liberals who as we know tend to be teachers, have the ability to be objective and NOT force their bias if they have one on others. Again as we have seen with 10 to one ratios of dems we see the voting population at about 50% each side. And as I point out seems they are failing if their objective is to brainwash like the military does its enlisted as the last 30 years for president are about 2 to one republican.

Thus one can conclude liberal reporters who are not on the CIA payroll can also be objective is another reasonable conclusion.

So would be interesting to see if the far right wing schools in education have such a record or do they brainwash? and thus again a parallel observation a journalist to the right tend not be objective.

Shock and astonishment are good for a conservative’s system. It’s a great cathartic for eliminating pent up venom. You may not be drinking Kool-Aid, but you are getting a needed dose of political prune juice. Instead of being shocked, maybe you could figure out why there are not more conservative professors and come up with a plan of action to remedy the situation.


You seem to interchange “far left,” “liberal,” and “Democrat.” These labels are not necessarily the same. Your link to the Utah Student newspaper cites a recent issue “Almanac Issue” of The Chronicle of Higher Education. It does not specify which issue. When trying to access the The Chronicle of Higher Education we find it is a membership page.

Membership Page

The most important point about your “research” that I can make is that being a Democrats or whatever does not mean professors are indoctrinating students.


Like Ted you have tried to demonstrate that most professors register as Democrats. Does this automatically translate into bias in instruction? There’s a quantum leap here somewhere.

1)Do you think American universities in general encourage a certain political ideology either through the actual education, or through the general viewpoints, policies, tolerance and overall culture of the university?

I am starting to wonder if it is conservative culture in America that forces the university faculty to be liberal sometimes- look at the news- every single science story demonizes the university or whatever entity that is doing some study or another, including this debate itself. Like there is some conspiracy of universities nationwide to indoctrinate young students into long haired hippies or something. I believe conservatives have pretty much forced universities and academists into an adversarial relationship. Look at the debate about intelligent design- and the attempt to force this into curriculum's around the country. Clearly anti-science.

Every time I have listened to a right wing radio talk show when the subject of science and academia they have a set of names they call them "academic elitists" " eggheads" etc etc- even if you were a right leaning scientist, I think you would have that beat out of you eventually- not by the university, but conservatives that have some agenda in discrediting your science or work.

So many of the "social conservative" agendas have been discredited or in outright war with scientists and academia- take, oh, abstinence programs- every piece of evidence presented shows that abstinence programs don't work or worse- they create more teenage mothers etc- they attack the scientists over and over again, saying the scientists have some bias or hidden agenda in thier science- from global warming to the Iraq dead- it is rare that an attack on the science is the issue- instead, they attack the scientist. No one says a word about study after study someone might publish, and then, when some closely held belief of the right is threatened- then they go on the attack. For years, animal behaviorists have ommited homosexual behavior among animals for fear of having funding pulled or thier career ended by right wing groups that might react negatively to thier observations.

So for some time, the right wing in this country doesn't attack the science really- they attack the scientists.

It is hard to identify with a movement that is attacking your livelihood and life's work on a regular basis.

2)What basis do you come to your conclusion?

The odd part of this debate for me is this- I coudn't tell you what a single proffessor in my school's ideology is- with the exception of one well known Alaskan native activist- and it is not a "liberal vs conservative" it is a "Alaska native issues" slant-

because I have never, in my two years going there now, have had an instructor announce his or her ideology or presented something that can be considered "liberal" or "conservative" in some political manner.

You would have to poll them and ask them directly.

I am not taking an arts degree of any kind though- mine is in science and technology- and like inventor pointed out- it is hard to inject political ideology into differential equations.

What I find interesting about this debate is that I don't recall any conservative or moderate Republican accusing anyone of 'indocrination', however CR and BoF have both brought up the issue as if anyone here has seriously made the accusation. The only accusation I have seen is that the liberally biased professors do not allow dissenting thought and try to quell anyone that disagrees with their political ideology. What is with this obsession of jumping all the way to the 'indoctrination' accusations?

I take that as sarcasm, but you would have to ask Ted if that was a serious accusation. After the intelligently worded post you provided that he was responding to, I am under the impression he was returning the favor. Unless you are actually coming out and saying that all conservatives are not educated? Maybe I misinterpreted both posts.

In all fairness Scubatim the problem is not with the posters but the wording of the Debate question.

Do you think American universities in general encourage a certain political ideology either through the actual education, or through the general viewpoints, policies, tolerance and overall culture of the university?

It's very easy to show that liberals or democrats outnumber their opposing counterparts, but that's not the University, that's not a policy, that's not education.

indoctrinate


you first debate question sounds like are Universities indoctrinating our students. Surely you can see how people may see this implication.

At any rate, how can we see what you propose?? I, too, have had classes and I have yet to have a teacher say "you can not disagree with liberals" or "this is the only correct stance" And believe me there are conservative in the class.

So other than a paper you received a bad grade on how do we go about showing, not even proving, just showing that there is a liberal bias influencing our youth, other than the natural order that comes with college life??

This was just an on-point counter to your claim that no conservative made the accusation. Maybe he wasn't serious, but he said it, so I'll take it at face value until I hear differently.

As for the liberal = educated post, well, what do you make of those numbers? My equation does not say that all conservatives are not educated - that was your extrapolation. Maybe it means something else - maybe there is a vast liberal conspiracy to steal the minds of college students. But that's a bigger leap of faith than just pointing out the relationship between a liberal mindset and education that those numbers seem to demonstrate.

So what you are saying is that you are not going to take a solid stance on what you said? I just don't understand.

You said: "liberal=educated". If that is your stance, then you would also be saying the inverse as being true. "conservative=uneducated". But I don't think you meant that, which is why I took it as sarcasm.



Your interpretation of the debate questions is not my responsibility. Furthermore, in the opening post, I did not take any stance on the issue. Many just assumed that I was flying the liberal indoctrination flag. In my responses, I have only participated in the debate by countering the points that have come up.

As far as the direct quotes "you can not disagree with liberals" or "this is the only correct stance", I have not said that professors are that direct, or that I have had that experience. However, if you read some of the stories posted here, there might be some evidence of oppressing dissenting ideas or ideologies. I don't want to muddle the thread with more long posts, but this story in particular sheds some light on why I feel the way I do.

So, taking one paper, or one exchange of words does not support a claim of ideological imbalance, but with the 10-1 ratio of D v. R, and the stories you can find at the above link, there seems to be some substance to a claim of imbalance.

I take a solid stance on my point: that those numbers suggest that liberal = educated.

I never said that the inverse was true, that "conservative = uneducated." Check your logic, scubatim. That was your extrapolation. Think of it in terms of subsets: "educated liberal" is a subset of "liberal", and "educated conservative" is a subset of "conservative. Since the ratio of liberals to conservatives in total is close to 1:1, those college numbers simply suggest that the "educated liberal" subset is large, while the "educated conservative" subset is small. Very, very small.