Full Version: Why Do We Vote On a Tuesday?
Yes, we've had similar discussions about the awkward details of our voting system, but this one is a more blunt topic I'm starting here.
Polls in Georgia were open from 9 Am to 7 PM, Tuesday. Except that, in Atlanta and elsewhere various precincts had a TWO HOUR or more wait. Which by itself is unacceptable.
But for daily workers with short lunch breaks and 9-5 schedules, that amounts to something fairly close to disenfranchisement, and not just for poor day laborers. Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers, any number of professional working people would have found it impossible to vote on Super Tuesday.
Which brings me to my question.
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
Polls in Georgia were open from 9 Am to 7 PM, Tuesday. Except that, in Atlanta and elsewhere various precincts had a TWO HOUR or more wait. Which by itself is unacceptable.
But for daily workers with short lunch breaks and 9-5 schedules, that amounts to something fairly close to disenfranchisement, and not just for poor day laborers. Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers, any number of professional working people would have found it impossible to vote on Super Tuesday.
Which brings me to my question.
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
It isn't arbitrary, just as November isn't arbitrary.
A quick history lesson: in the days of the founding of the US, the majority of people lived on farms. Of course, they couldn't vote on farms, they had to go to a village or city to vote. They were expected to travel and Tuesday was chosen so they could leave on Sunday and get to the polls by Tuesday.
Today, we have people griping that they can't drive down the friggin street 500 yards to vote. A five minute drive and a half hour wait in line. Two centuries ago the drive could have been a day long!
November was chosen because it was the "slow season". Harvesting was over and planting hadn't begun.
I have never known of a voting place that closed with people in line waiting to vote. Polls stay open extra late when voting problems occur. Sometimes that requires a judge's order. The primaries are run by the parties, not by the government.
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
Cost and availability of volunteers are two reasons that spring to mind.
It isn't arbitrary, just as November isn't arbitrary.
A quick history lesson: in the days of the founding of the US, the majority of people lived on farms. Of course, they couldn't vote on farms, they had to go to a village or city to vote. They were expected to travel and Tuesday was chosen so they could leave on Sunday and get to the polls by Tuesday.
Today, we have people griping that they can't drive down the friggin street 500 yards to vote. A five minute drive and a half hour wait in line. Two centuries ago the drive could have been a day long!
November was chosen because it was the "slow season". Harvesting was over and planting hadn't begun.
I have never known of a voting place that closed with people in line waiting to vote. Polls stay open extra late when voting problems occur. Sometimes that requires a judge's order. The primaries are run by the parties, not by the government.
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
Cost and availability of volunteers are two reasons that spring to mind.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 10:52 AM) 
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
1.) See history lesson above. It also should be noted that "Super Tuesday" sounds better than "Super Sunday."
2.) While it may increase voter turn-out, finding people to man the polls and practical costs low would stifle it.
3.) A lot more activity on the part of the electorate.
QUOTE
November was chosen because it was the "slow season". Harvesting was over and planting hadn't begun.
I have never known of a voting place that closed with people in line waiting to vote. Polls stay open extra late when voting problems occur. Sometimes that requires a judge's order. The primaries are run by the parties, not by the government.
I have never known of a voting place that closed with people in line waiting to vote. Polls stay open extra late when voting problems occur. Sometimes that requires a judge's order. The primaries are run by the parties, not by the government.
Come on, Amlord. Are you really telling me that a two-hour wait to vote isn't a big deal because back in the day we used to have to walk three days in our soot-soaked moccasins to vote for William Jennings Bryan?
And yes, primaries are run by the parties... but what about special elections, run-offs, recalls, and of course, election day... all held on Tuesdays, typically.
What's more? You're right polls don't close with people in line. But what about all the people who see an hour-plus long line and simply don't have that time to commit. Don't kid yourself -- its very easy to imagine how good, civic-minded, politically-informed individuals could, despite all their best efforts, not find the room in their workday to spend two hours waiting in line to cast one of several hundred thousand ballots.
The government should be making it easier to vote, not waxing historically on the days where farmers would shuffle 5 or 10 miles down a dusty road to mark a ballot during the slow season.
We don't have slow seasons anymore -- unless you are an Olympic skier or a major league umpire. Your historical perspective was informative, and well taken, but as an excuse, well it doesn't slice the butter. As for volunteers, wouldn't there be more volunteers willing and able to work polls on a weekend or holiday than on a weekday? Doesn't holding elections on a Tuesday actually cut into the number of available volunteers?
Let's not be cynical yall.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 01:25 PM)
QUOTE
November was chosen because it was the "slow season". Harvesting was over and planting hadn't begun.
I have never known of a voting place that closed with people in line waiting to vote. Polls stay open extra late when voting problems occur. Sometimes that requires a judge's order. The primaries are run by the parties, not by the government.
I have never known of a voting place that closed with people in line waiting to vote. Polls stay open extra late when voting problems occur. Sometimes that requires a judge's order. The primaries are run by the parties, not by the government.
Come on, Amlord. Are you really telling me that a two-hour wait to vote isn't a big deal because back in the day we used to have to walk three days in our soot-soaked moccasins to vote for William Jennings Bryan?
And yes, primaries are run by the parties... but what about special elections, run-offs, recalls, and of course, election day... all held on Tuesdays, typically.
What's more? You're right polls don't close with people in line. But what about all the people who see an hour-plus long line and simply don't have that time to commit. Don't kid yourself -- its very easy to imagine how good, civic-minded, politically-informed individuals could, despite all their best efforts, not find the room in their workday to spend two hours waiting in line to cast one of several hundred thousand ballots.
The government should be making it easier to vote, not waxing historically on the days where farmers would shuffle 5 or 10 miles down a dusty road to mark a ballot during the slow season.
We don't have slow seasons anymore -- unless you are an Olympic skier or a major league umpire. Your historical perspective was informative, and well taken, but as an excuse, well it doesn't slice the butter. As for volunteers, wouldn't there be more volunteers willing and able to work polls on a weekend or holiday than on a weekday? Doesn't holding elections on a Tuesday actually cut into the number of available volunteers?
Let's not be cynical yall.
Sorry, but a two hour wait is ridiculous as an excuse to change the entire system. On average, According to a National survey (1998) the average American watches 3 hours and 46 minutes of television each day! Standing in line for two hours every four years is distracting the majority of Americans from what? Reruns of "Two and a Half Men"? Legally, you must be allowed to go to the voting booth by your employer. Nothing can come of you waiting two hours if you have to according to the law as I understand it. I also don't know if the two hour wait is so common across America that it is really an epidemic. How many cities around the nation have consistently had two hour waits all day long?
As far as getting more people to volunteer or to cast a ballot by holding elections on weekends, I don't know if that is accurate. What is so different on weekends than during the week? Families have just as many sports practices for their children during the week as they do games on the weekends. Families have more family activities such as gatherings and reunions and trips as they do during the week.
I like tradition in most cases, including this case. I have not seen a valid argument that would convince me that there is sufficient reason to change the entire process.
QUOTE(scubatim @ Feb 7 2008, 03:46 PM)
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 01:25 PM)
QUOTE
November was chosen because it was the "slow season". Harvesting was over and planting hadn't begun.
I have never known of a voting place that closed with people in line waiting to vote. Polls stay open extra late when voting problems occur. Sometimes that requires a judge's order. The primaries are run by the parties, not by the government.
I have never known of a voting place that closed with people in line waiting to vote. Polls stay open extra late when voting problems occur. Sometimes that requires a judge's order. The primaries are run by the parties, not by the government.
Come on, Amlord. Are you really telling me that a two-hour wait to vote isn't a big deal because back in the day we used to have to walk three days in our soot-soaked moccasins to vote for William Jennings Bryan?
And yes, primaries are run by the parties... but what about special elections, run-offs, recalls, and of course, election day... all held on Tuesdays, typically.
What's more? You're right polls don't close with people in line. But what about all the people who see an hour-plus long line and simply don't have that time to commit. Don't kid yourself -- its very easy to imagine how good, civic-minded, politically-informed individuals could, despite all their best efforts, not find the room in their workday to spend two hours waiting in line to cast one of several hundred thousand ballots.
The government should be making it easier to vote, not waxing historically on the days where farmers would shuffle 5 or 10 miles down a dusty road to mark a ballot during the slow season.
We don't have slow seasons anymore -- unless you are an Olympic skier or a major league umpire. Your historical perspective was informative, and well taken, but as an excuse, well it doesn't slice the butter. As for volunteers, wouldn't there be more volunteers willing and able to work polls on a weekend or holiday than on a weekday? Doesn't holding elections on a Tuesday actually cut into the number of available volunteers?
Let's not be cynical yall.
Sorry, but a two hour wait is ridiculous as an excuse to change the entire system. On average, According to a National survey (1998) the average American watches 3 hours and 46 minutes of television each day! Standing in line for two hours every four years is distracting the majority of Americans from what? Reruns of "Two and a Half Men"? Legally, you must be allowed to go to the voting booth by your employer. Nothing can come of you waiting two hours if you have to according to the law as I understand it. I also don't know if the two hour wait is so common across America that it is really an epidemic. How many cities around the nation have consistently had two hour waits all day long?
As far as getting more people to volunteer or to cast a ballot by holding elections on weekends, I don't know if that is accurate. What is so different on weekends than during the week? Families have just as many sports practices for their children during the week as they do games on the weekends. Families have more family activities such as gatherings and reunions and trips as they do during the week.
I like tradition in most cases, including this case. I have not seen a valid argument that would convince me that there is sufficient reason to change the entire process.
Yawn. Another instance of Americans chastising themselves for their own recreation time.
Two And A Half Men airs at 9 PM on CBS. Well pass the hour most Americans have eaten, had dinner, maybe even taken a bath if they roll like that. You can bet your harmonica that if 2 1/2 men aired from 9 am - 7 pm on a Tuesday, no one would watch it. It would be called 'daytime television,' and with few exceptions, it would suck.
So if our American culture is willing to organize our TV watching schedule around our convenience, why should voting be any different? Is getting Americans to the polls during Super Tuesday less important than getting Americans to the couch during the Super Bowl?
We have here a system that makes it easier for Americans to watch and vote for American Idol than to vote in a presidential election.
And I'm not saying Americans need to be pampered, they need to have the government lay out an easy day schedule for them like Amelia Badelia, or that Americans need to be personally picked up and driven to the polls... but if we can make it easier for Americans to vote, why not? Who, with the notable exception of orthodox jews, could object to a primary on Saturday? I just don't see how the fact that Americans are supposedly lazy somehow justifies making voting hard for them.
What, should we require every American to do 12 push-ups before entering the curtained booth? Is this an election we're talking about or some kind of tough love exercise routine?
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 02:05 PM)
And I'm not saying Americans need to be pampered, they need to have the government lay out an easy day schedule for them like Amelia Badelia, or that Americans need to be personally picked up and driven to the polls... but if we can make it easier for Americans to vote, why not? Who, with the notable exception of orthodox jews, could object to a primary on Saturday? I just don't see how the fact that Americans are supposedly lazy somehow justifies making voting hard for them.
What, should we require every American to do 12 push-ups before entering the curtained booth? Is this an election we're talking about or some kind of tough love exercise routine?
What, should we require every American to do 12 push-ups before entering the curtained booth? Is this an election we're talking about or some kind of tough love exercise routine?
Seriously? What is so hard about the system we have today? Because of a few lines? It is hardly an epidemic. Going to the polls and waiting for a booth to open up is difficult? Where is this inability to vote coming from? It is much easier today than it was 200 years ago. Why do we need a change all of a sudden? I don't understand how our process is so difficult. Laziness is exactly what is being displayed here. Why change something just so we can make it easier for laziness? Get off your duff and do something that actually matters instead of sitting on the couch watching TV. How has making election day the Tuesday after the first Monday of November made it so difficult for people to vote. There will be those that have conflicts that they will have to overcome every day of the week. Again, I see no argument that justifies changing an entire system that isn't broke.
In the approximately ten times I've voted, I've stood in a line more than 10 minutes once: the Bush v. Kerry race of 2004. That wait was about 45 minutes. The 2006 election was about 10 minutes. The polls are run by elderly women (predominantly) who are volunteers.
How come we don't pay people to vote? That would provide incentive for people.
People make choices. If casting your ballot is less important than rushing home to fire up your Xbox 360, then so be it. Don't make class warfare statements like "bus drivers can't vote!". Hogwash.
I would put apathy as the number one reason people don't vote, followed by laziness. Heck, Barack Obama is hoping he can get the people that attend his rallies to actually go out and cast a vote (hoping it is for him). It isn't lack of access that he worries about, it is people getting too busy on election day doing something else.
How come we don't pay people to vote? That would provide incentive for people.
People make choices. If casting your ballot is less important than rushing home to fire up your Xbox 360, then so be it. Don't make class warfare statements like "bus drivers can't vote!". Hogwash.
I would put apathy as the number one reason people don't vote, followed by laziness. Heck, Barack Obama is hoping he can get the people that attend his rallies to actually go out and cast a vote (hoping it is for him). It isn't lack of access that he worries about, it is people getting too busy on election day doing something else.
QUOTE(Amlord @ Feb 7 2008, 04:45 PM)
I would put apathy as the number one reason people don't vote, followed by laziness. Heck, Barack Obama is hoping he can get the people that attend his rallies to actually go out and cast a vote (hoping it is for him). It isn't lack of access that he worries about, it is people getting too busy on election day doing something else.
I agree. The reason polls are typically opened for twelve hours is with the assumption that most people do not work from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. and that it is their duty to find the time to take ownership of their government. It is more than simple to vote in this country, though it is costly. Volunteers certainly defray the cost, but it still doesn't bother me that with the provisions and options of early voting, absentee ballots, and other exceptions to the Tuesday voting, people still won't.
Well, here's a novel idea.
Why not get your ballot in the mail?
Now you can pick a day to vote. Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday... as long as you return it in time.
Even the laziest of the lazy have no excuse that the 500 meters away polling booth is packed, the busses don't run at convenient times, you're a quadriplegic, the polling place burned down the night before, etc etc etc. If you can walk to your mailbox, you can vote.
No need to change the system. At least we're not counting votes like American Idol, or through the internet. Yes, America, you can vote up to 10 times by text messaging "vote" to WHITEHOUSE, and pressing 1) for Hillary, 2) for McCain....
We had four precincts reporting to one little school in our area. Still, the wait was 20 minutes. Meh. That's just enough time to call mom and see how she's doing on the cell phone. The reason polling places are getting further apart is because people are no longer volunteering to do it. The public school I went to, the poll workers tell me, was the lowest bidder, and even then, they were mad "that their library was unusable for the whole day". Oh drat! Little Johnny can't look up his anime online story website, and little Jenny is held back from her Online Cosmo articles.
We just passed a bunch of bonds two years ago that gave the public schools a boatload of money, and then they bilk the county for a polling place, and then when they find out 3 other precincts are coming, try to get MORE money. That's a scam. A few lessons learned there, one of which.. no more bonds. Spend your money wisely like the rest of us.
Next year, I will be holding a voting place in my garage/driveway. For free. And for nine bucks an hour, I'll be a poll worker.
Why not get your ballot in the mail?
Now you can pick a day to vote. Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday... as long as you return it in time.
Even the laziest of the lazy have no excuse that the 500 meters away polling booth is packed, the busses don't run at convenient times, you're a quadriplegic, the polling place burned down the night before, etc etc etc. If you can walk to your mailbox, you can vote.
No need to change the system. At least we're not counting votes like American Idol, or through the internet. Yes, America, you can vote up to 10 times by text messaging "vote" to WHITEHOUSE, and pressing 1) for Hillary, 2) for McCain....
We had four precincts reporting to one little school in our area. Still, the wait was 20 minutes. Meh. That's just enough time to call mom and see how she's doing on the cell phone. The reason polling places are getting further apart is because people are no longer volunteering to do it. The public school I went to, the poll workers tell me, was the lowest bidder, and even then, they were mad "that their library was unusable for the whole day". Oh drat! Little Johnny can't look up his anime online story website, and little Jenny is held back from her Online Cosmo articles.
We just passed a bunch of bonds two years ago that gave the public schools a boatload of money, and then they bilk the county for a polling place, and then when they find out 3 other precincts are coming, try to get MORE money. That's a scam. A few lessons learned there, one of which.. no more bonds. Spend your money wisely like the rest of us.
Next year, I will be holding a voting place in my garage/driveway. For free. And for nine bucks an hour, I'll be a poll worker.
Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
We've been given the historical rationale - which makes some sense. The Tuesday polling day and November schedule was established to make voting easier - more convenient, less likely to disrupt work - to encourage participation. The rationale still holds, but the circumstances have changed. We are no longer an agrarian society. And if a solution no longer works, it should be abandoned. Like the founders of this nation, we should be doing everything possible to keep voting easy, convenient, unlikely to disrupt work. We should still be encouraging participation.
Some traditions be worth honoring for tradition's sake (I can't actually think of any, but I'll allow that such may exist), but a now awkward, difficult, and/or prohibitive voting schedule is definitely not one of them.
At the time of the 2000 election, I had a two-hour morning commute and an two-and-a-half-hour evening commute. Obviously, I was registered to vote where I lived not where I worked. For that election, I took a vacation day at work and voted instead. I suppose I could have got an absentee ballot, but as my polling place was a two-minute walk from my apartment, it seemed absurd - and I was fairly certain I could get time off from work. But what if I'd subsequently been refused the vacation day? I'd have been disenfranchised. What if I wasn't in a job that had paid "personal days"? I'd have had to have sacrificed at least half a day's pay - and maybe even risked termination. Why should I have to do that to exercise my voting rights?
Now, such situations may be relatively exceptional, but in a country this size, how many people have a two- or more hour commute? How many people work a twelve or more hour day? Only a few hundred thousand? I don't think it should be made routinely difficult for anyone to vote.
We're not talking about "changing the entire system" - we're talking about adjusting the schedule. Or, at most, giving people a day off to vote. How does that affect "the system"? I mean, this isn't on the same scale as, say, abolishing the electoral college or extending the franchise to women.
Why not make election day a national holiday?
I think we should. Voting is not an obligation, but it is a right - and no one should be penalized for exercising a right. Primaries and local elections are clearly not the domain of the federal government. But for national elections, I see no argument that justifies keeping a schedule which is clearly no longer serving its intended purpose - which is, indeed, "broke". I have not seen a valid argument that would convince me that there is sufficient reason to keep the current schedule - apart from "tradition". I guess we should never have abandoned the "tradition" of senators being chosen by state legislatures - or the "tradition" of the runner-up being vice president - or the "tradition" of having no term limits for presidents.
If people are concerned about the cost of another national holiday, let's get rid of President's Day. We don't have a Congress Day or a Judiciary Branch Day - why have the equivalent of a Queen's Official Birthday? Isn't that why we had a revolution here? And, hey - as President's Day is annual and national elections only every two years, commerce would be gaining half a dozen workdays every decade.
But, seriously, would a bi-annual holiday be that devastating?
I agree with drew that more volunteers would be able and willing to work polls on a holiday. I'd volunteer. It is ironic that scubatim argues that it's ridiculous for people to be troubled by standing in line "for two hours every four years", but that expecting people to reschedule a family gathering once every few years would be a crippling burden (and how many people schedule reunions in early November, a few weeks short of Thanksgiving?). Heck, if Election Day were a national holiday, people might actually gather to discuss politics and go to the polls together. I usually try to drag a few people along to the polls anyway. How much easier if it were a day off - and, for many, a paid holiday? There's a problem with that?
If laziness and apathy are problems, making voting easier - as our founders did - sounds like a good idea, not an argument to the contrary. Early voting and absentee ballots are one step - and an increasing number of people appear to be availing of them, but neither addresses the innate indolence of large swathes of the American people. The world is full of Obama Girls. Sure, we should have a better informed, more active and involved electorate - though this isn't really the thread for addressing that problem - but wouldn't a more convenient voting schedule contribute to people's participation? I can't see where it would hurt.
Or, if a national holiday is such a problem (not convinced here), why not include an absentee ballot in every registered voter's tax return? That way, at least, there'd be no excuse for not exercising one's right. A spike in absentee balloting might cause some delays in the tally - as would hand-counted paper ballots - but, so what? I want people to vote - as many as possible, from as broad and representative a spectrum of our people as possible. And I want their votes to count. If that takes six, eight, ten weeks to accomplish every couple of years, so be it - and the immediate gratification of cable news results be damned.
What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
An Act of Congress.
We've been given the historical rationale - which makes some sense. The Tuesday polling day and November schedule was established to make voting easier - more convenient, less likely to disrupt work - to encourage participation. The rationale still holds, but the circumstances have changed. We are no longer an agrarian society. And if a solution no longer works, it should be abandoned. Like the founders of this nation, we should be doing everything possible to keep voting easy, convenient, unlikely to disrupt work. We should still be encouraging participation.
Some traditions be worth honoring for tradition's sake (I can't actually think of any, but I'll allow that such may exist), but a now awkward, difficult, and/or prohibitive voting schedule is definitely not one of them.
At the time of the 2000 election, I had a two-hour morning commute and an two-and-a-half-hour evening commute. Obviously, I was registered to vote where I lived not where I worked. For that election, I took a vacation day at work and voted instead. I suppose I could have got an absentee ballot, but as my polling place was a two-minute walk from my apartment, it seemed absurd - and I was fairly certain I could get time off from work. But what if I'd subsequently been refused the vacation day? I'd have been disenfranchised. What if I wasn't in a job that had paid "personal days"? I'd have had to have sacrificed at least half a day's pay - and maybe even risked termination. Why should I have to do that to exercise my voting rights?
Now, such situations may be relatively exceptional, but in a country this size, how many people have a two- or more hour commute? How many people work a twelve or more hour day? Only a few hundred thousand? I don't think it should be made routinely difficult for anyone to vote.
We're not talking about "changing the entire system" - we're talking about adjusting the schedule. Or, at most, giving people a day off to vote. How does that affect "the system"? I mean, this isn't on the same scale as, say, abolishing the electoral college or extending the franchise to women.
Why not make election day a national holiday?
I think we should. Voting is not an obligation, but it is a right - and no one should be penalized for exercising a right. Primaries and local elections are clearly not the domain of the federal government. But for national elections, I see no argument that justifies keeping a schedule which is clearly no longer serving its intended purpose - which is, indeed, "broke". I have not seen a valid argument that would convince me that there is sufficient reason to keep the current schedule - apart from "tradition". I guess we should never have abandoned the "tradition" of senators being chosen by state legislatures - or the "tradition" of the runner-up being vice president - or the "tradition" of having no term limits for presidents.
If people are concerned about the cost of another national holiday, let's get rid of President's Day. We don't have a Congress Day or a Judiciary Branch Day - why have the equivalent of a Queen's Official Birthday? Isn't that why we had a revolution here? And, hey - as President's Day is annual and national elections only every two years, commerce would be gaining half a dozen workdays every decade.
But, seriously, would a bi-annual holiday be that devastating?I agree with drew that more volunteers would be able and willing to work polls on a holiday. I'd volunteer. It is ironic that scubatim argues that it's ridiculous for people to be troubled by standing in line "for two hours every four years", but that expecting people to reschedule a family gathering once every few years would be a crippling burden (and how many people schedule reunions in early November, a few weeks short of Thanksgiving?). Heck, if Election Day were a national holiday, people might actually gather to discuss politics and go to the polls together. I usually try to drag a few people along to the polls anyway. How much easier if it were a day off - and, for many, a paid holiday? There's a problem with that?
If laziness and apathy are problems, making voting easier - as our founders did - sounds like a good idea, not an argument to the contrary. Early voting and absentee ballots are one step - and an increasing number of people appear to be availing of them, but neither addresses the innate indolence of large swathes of the American people. The world is full of Obama Girls. Sure, we should have a better informed, more active and involved electorate - though this isn't really the thread for addressing that problem - but wouldn't a more convenient voting schedule contribute to people's participation? I can't see where it would hurt.
Or, if a national holiday is such a problem (not convinced here), why not include an absentee ballot in every registered voter's tax return? That way, at least, there'd be no excuse for not exercising one's right. A spike in absentee balloting might cause some delays in the tally - as would hand-counted paper ballots - but, so what? I want people to vote - as many as possible, from as broad and representative a spectrum of our people as possible. And I want their votes to count. If that takes six, eight, ten weeks to accomplish every couple of years, so be it - and the immediate gratification of cable news results be damned.
What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
An Act of Congress.
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
We've been given the historical rationale - which makes some sense. The Tuesday polling day and November schedule was established to make voting easier - more convenient, less likely to disrupt work - to encourage participation. The rationale no longer holds, but the circumstances have changed. We are no longer an agrarian society. And if a solution no longer holds, it should be abandoned. Like the founders of this nation, we should be doing everything possible to keep voting easy, convenient, unlikely to disrupt work. We should still be encouraging participation.
We've been given the historical rationale - which makes some sense. The Tuesday polling day and November schedule was established to make voting easier - more convenient, less likely to disrupt work - to encourage participation. The rationale no longer holds, but the circumstances have changed. We are no longer an agrarian society. And if a solution no longer holds, it should be abandoned. Like the founders of this nation, we should be doing everything possible to keep voting easy, convenient, unlikely to disrupt work. We should still be encouraging participation.
With the absentee ballot, the 12 hour polling times I don't see how participation is discouraged by having the election on Tuesday.
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
Some traditions be worth honoring for tradition's sake (I can't actually think of any, but I'll allow that such may exist), but a now awkward, difficult, and/or prohibitive voting process is definitely not one of them.
Again, what is prohibitive about voting on Tuesday versus Saturday or Sunday?
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
At the time of the 2000 election, I had a two-hour morning commute and an two-and-a-half-hour evening commute. Obviously, I was registered to vote where I lived not where I worked. For that election, I took a vacation day at work and voted instead. I suppose I could have got an absentee ballot, but as my polling place was a two-minute walk from my apartment, it seemed absurd
Taking the entire day off wasn't just as absurd?
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
But what if I'd subsequently been refused the vacation day? I'd have been disenfranchised. What if I wasn't in a job that had paid "personal days"? I'd have had to have sacrificed at least half a day's pay - and maybe even risked termination. Why should I have to do that to exercise my voting rights?
Losing your job because you went to vote would be against the law, and wouldn't happen. Your employer has to let you leave in order to vote. It's the law. How does this make you disenfranchised? Especially since there is the absentee ballot option.
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
Now, such situations may be relatively exceptional, but in a country this size, how many people have a two- or more hour commute? How many people work a twelve or more hour day? Only a few hundred thousand? I don't think it should be made routinely difficult for anyone to vote.
Any changes made would shift the difficulty from one small group to another. How do you propose making it easy for everyone? Even on national holidays, people still have to work. They even have to work 12 hour shifts and commute 2 hours. How does changing the day or making it a holiday make it easy and convenient for everyone?
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
We're not talking about "changing the entire system" - we're talking about adjusting the schedule. Or, at most, giving people a day off to vote.
Is this a paid day off or just a day off? If it is a paid day off, who pays those unproductive wages? Small businesses can't afford to pay this. Now we are making it more difficult on the majority of the businesses in this country.
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
I agree with drew that more volunteers would be able and willing to work polls on a holiday. I'd volunteer. It is ironic that scubatim argues that it's ridiculous for people to be troubled by standing in line "for two hours every four years", but that expecting people to reschedule a family gathering once every few years would be a crippling burden (and how many people schedule reunions in early November, a few weeks short of Thanksgiving?). Heck, if Election Day were a national holiday, people might actually gather to discuss politics and go to the polls together. I usually try to drag a few people along to the polls anyway. How much easier if it were a day off - and, for many, a paid holiday? There's a problem with that?
Actually, if you were to pay attention to what is said, I was referring to weekends not as a holiday. I was also pointing out that no matter when you put it on the calendar, someone is going to be inconvenienced. If it is on the weekend, and little Tommy's tournament baseball (insert any number of other sport here) team is traveling to another state for a tournament, there are a lot of people that aren't going to be able to vote. My point is simple; just because it is inconvenient on Tuesday for some people and changing it to another day would be more convenient for those people, doesn't make it less of an inconvenience for others. All you are doing is shifting it from one small group to another.
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
If laziness and apathy are problems, making voting easier - as our founders did - sounds like a good idea, not an argument to the contrary. Early voting and absentee ballots are one step - and an increasing number of people appear to be availing of them, but neither addresses the innate indolence of large swathes of the American people. Sure, we should have a better informed, more active and involved electorate - though this isn't really the thread for addressing that problem - but wouldn't a more convenient voting schedule contribute to people's participation? I can't see where it would hurt.
More convenient for who? You? What about other people that have obligations on weekends? What about those that either are business owners that have to pay their employees for another federal holiday, or those employees that have to take the holiday without pay? How is that convenient? Trading this day for Presidents day doesn't make any sense since I have yet to see any business have a sign that reads "Closed for Presidents Day!"
QUOTE(Wertz @ Feb 7 2008, 05:50 PM)
Or, if a national holiday is such a problem (not convinced here), why not include an absentee ballot in every registered voter's tax return? That way, at least, there'd be no excuse for not exercising one's right. A spike in absentee balloting might cause some delays in the tally - as would hand-counted paper ballots - but, so what? I want people to vote - as many as possible, from as broad and representative a spectrum of our people as possible. And I want their votes to count. If that takes six, eight, ten weeks to accomplish every couple of years, so be it - and the immediate gratification of cable news results be damned.
Now there is a possible solution that I can agree with you on.
QUOTE
People make choices. If casting your ballot is less important than rushing home to fire up your Xbox 360, then so be it. Don't make class warfare statements like "bus drivers can't vote!". Hogwash.
What's hogwash is your attempt to box me into class warfare. Let's re-exmine my list of people who work long hours with short breaks and might not be able to easily vote:
QUOTE
Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers,
Gosh, Amlord. That sure is class warfare, right. I mean, when are the stock brokers and office folks going to get what society owes them.
Yall are being silly. Yall are basically saying that a few lines here and there is no reason to "change the system." As if the system depends on elections being held on a Tuesday. Is if re-scheduling the 2012 elections would be a monumental change on par with Women's suffrage.
I agree with Wertz. The founding fathers selected Tuesday because it made voting convenient for an agrarian society. Tuesday is no longer so convenient. Why not delay the election a few days to Saturday?
And this stuff about "americans play x-box and watch TV so they should be able to vote"... what does that have to do with anything? Americans waste a lot of time. You and I are wasting time right now on AD. Americans have a recreational lifestyle.
But we have a recreational lifestyle that takes place after 7 p.m. If you'll notice, not a lot of great TV shows are on before 7. Reason why? People are working those hours. Maybe you aren't, but a lot of stock brokers and economists with compelling and informed opinions on the candidates are. A lot of teachers are -- teachers who care about no child left behind. A lot of doctors who have a stake in health care proposals might not be able to vote.
The fact is, this isn't a Sisyphean boulder I'm asking America to move. Its one day on the calendar, and none of you have presented any compelling cons. You've waxed poetically about the laziness of the American voter, and that's all fine and well -- especially coming from a crowd sitting in an armchair wasting time online right now. But other than a lame assertion that too many soccer moms would be unable to volunteer on Saturdays, I just haven't heard the arguments against a weekend election.
All I've heard are cynical and logically untenable diagnoses of the lazy, apathetic American. The one who sits on his couch and watches Baywatch and barfs beer on himself. Very convincing guys.
Maybe millions of Americans are lazy and apathetic and wouldn't go to the polls if we paved the sidewalks with carpet ever Novemeber.
But surely there are Americans who aren't lazy and apathetic who would be more able to get to the polls on a Saturday than on a Tuesday. Surely!
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 06:21 PM)
Yall are being silly. Yall are basically saying that a few lines here and there is no reason to "change the system." As if the system depends on elections being held on a Tuesday. Is if re-scheduling the 2012 elections would be a monumental change on par with Women's suffrage.
The point is, why change it? There is no solution regarding to the scheduling of the election that will make it convenient for everyone. There are options out there for those that know that it can be difficult to vote on the specified day.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 06:21 PM)
I agree with Wertz. The founding fathers selected Tuesday because it made voting convenient for an agrarian society. Tuesday is no longer so convenient. Why not delay the election a few days to Saturday?
Saturday solves what?
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 06:21 PM)
And this stuff about "americans play x-box and watch TV so they should be able to vote"... what does that have to do with anything? Americans waste a lot of time. You and I are wasting time right now on AD. Americans have a recreational lifestyle.
And sacraficing some of that recreational time playing x-box to go vote is an inconvenience how? If waiting in line to vote every two years is such a hinderance to the x-box that you just can't do it, then the issue isn't with the polls being open on Tuesday.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 06:21 PM)
But we have a recreational lifestyle that takes place after 7 p.m. If you'll notice, not a lot of great TV shows are on before 7. Reason why? People are working those hours. Maybe you aren't, but a lot of stock brokers and economists with compelling and informed opinions on the candidates are. A lot of teachers are -- teachers who care about no child left behind. A lot of doctors who have a stake in health care proposals might not be able to vote.
Again, there are solutions in place. Especially since it is against the law for an employer to deny an employee to leave work if necessary to vote.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 06:21 PM)
The fact is, this isn't a Sisyphean boulder I'm asking America to move. Its one day on the calendar, and none of you have presented any compelling cons. You've waxed poetically about the laziness of the American voter, and that's all fine and well -- especially coming from a crowd sitting in an armchair wasting time online right now. But other than a lame assertion that too many soccer moms would be unable to volunteer on Saturdays, I just haven't heard the arguments against a weekend election.
What I haven't heard is a reason to make any changes. The only thing I can figure is to change for the sake of changing.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 06:21 PM)
All I've heard are cynical and logically untenable diagnoses of the lazy, apathetic American. The one who sits on his couch and watches Baywatch and barfs beer on himself. Very convincing guys.
Again, why change what isn't broken?
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 06:21 PM)
Maybe millions of Americans are lazy and apathetic and wouldn't go to the polls if we paved the sidewalks with carpet ever Novemeber.
But surely there are Americans who aren't lazy and apathetic who would be more able to get to the polls on a Saturday than on a Tuesday. Surely!
But surely there are Americans who aren't lazy and apathetic who would be more able to get to the polls on a Saturday than on a Tuesday. Surely!
And millions that would not be able to vote on Saturdays. Again, just changing the inconvenience from one group to another. Why change the date if it doesn't really solve anything?
QUOTE
The point is, why change it? There is no solution regarding to the scheduling of the election that will make it convenient for everyone. There are options out there for those that know that it can be difficult to vote on the specified day.
Of course there is no single day that is convenient for 300 million Americans. Saturday elections would force orthodox jews to vote by absentee ballots or break a religious decree, potentially.
But outside of the Orthodox Jewish community, it is pretty much an inarguable fact of life of American life that working individuals have more free time on Saturdays, and would therefore be more likely to "get around to it" on Saturday.
That's why we should change it. To make voting a little bit easier. Because why not?
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE
The point is, why change it? There is no solution regarding to the scheduling of the election that will make it convenient for everyone. There are options out there for those that know that it can be difficult to vote on the specified day.
Of course there is no single day that is convenient for 300 million Americans. Saturday elections would force orthodox jews to vote by absentee ballots or break a religious decree, potentially.
But outside of the Orthodox Jewish community, it is pretty much an inarguable fact of life of American life that working individuals have more free time on Saturdays, and would therefore be more likely to "get around to it" on Saturday.
That's why we should change it. To make voting a little bit easier. Because why not?
How many OTR truckers drive on Saturdays? How many service industry professionals work on Saturdays? How many medical professionals work on Saturdays? How many tourism industry professionals work on Saturdays? And that is just the beginning of the list.
How about the families that have kids in extra-curricular activities such as sports, youth groups, scouting, music and any other number of events that require traveling to tournaments, programs, competitions and any other number of activities?
And then you admitted to the entire religious group that is inconvenienced.
So again, I will ask; What is the point of changing the scheduled date if it doesn't actually solve anything? Why fix something that isn't broken?
QUOTE
How many OTR truckers drive on Saturdays? How many service industry professionals work on Saturdays? How many medical professionals work on Saturdays? How many tourism industry professionals work on Saturdays? And that is just the beginning of the list.
How about the families that have kids in extra-curricular activities such as sports, youth groups, scouting, music and any other number of events that require traveling to tournaments, programs, competitions and any other number of activities?
And then you admitted to the entire religious group that is inconvenienced.
So again, I will ask; What is the point of changing the scheduled date if it doesn't actually solve anything? Why fix something that isn't broken?
How about the families that have kids in extra-curricular activities such as sports, youth groups, scouting, music and any other number of events that require traveling to tournaments, programs, competitions and any other number of activities?
And then you admitted to the entire religious group that is inconvenienced.
So again, I will ask; What is the point of changing the scheduled date if it doesn't actually solve anything? Why fix something that isn't broken?
By listing the number of people who would be inconvenienced by a Saturday election you have effectively ceded me my point.
A little league game is no longer than 90 minutes. Children these days can't concentrate for a minute, let alone nine innings or four quarters. This Saturday, if its not too cold in Iowa, go drive around and tell me how many children's sports activities you see going on after 1 p.m. or so. Not many. I used to referee youth soccer games, I know.
Little league does not last from 9 am to 5 p.m. with a 45 minute break for lunch.
Music: Bands don't practice for 8 hours a day unless they are under the tutelage of Fela Kuti or James Brown.
Medical professionals: More medical professionals work on Tuesdays than on Saturdays. If you don't believe me, try to find a dermatologist or a orthodontist this Saturday.
OTR truckers: Don't just work on weekends. They work on Tuesdays, too.
---•---
It is a fact of American life that more people work on Tuesday than work on Saturday. When the American founding fathers selected Tuesday, they did so for the convenience of everyday Americans. Today, Saturdays are clearly a more convenient day for Americans than Tuesday. Why do you think all those sporting events and band practices happen on Saturdays? It would not be, in my view, a monumental chore to reschedule the 2012 elections for a Saturday-- and it is pretty reasonable conclusion that more people would be inclined to vote if they had a wide open Saturday afternoon, rather than a lunch hour or an after-work commute home window to cast their ballots.
Shouldn't the government do what it can, within reason, to make voting easier for Americans? You keep saying if it's not broken don't fix it, but it is kinda inconvenient to vote sometimes, for some people, and this isn't a huge 'fix.' It's really a minor adjustment.
I recognize you're trying to have some fun here and stake out a devil's advocate position, but well, it's your party. Live on.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 08:08 PM)
QUOTE
How many OTR truckers drive on Saturdays? How many service industry professionals work on Saturdays? How many medical professionals work on Saturdays? How many tourism industry professionals work on Saturdays? And that is just the beginning of the list.
How about the families that have kids in extra-curricular activities such as sports, youth groups, scouting, music and any other number of events that require traveling to tournaments, programs, competitions and any other number of activities?
And then you admitted to the entire religious group that is inconvenienced.
So again, I will ask; What is the point of changing the scheduled date if it doesn't actually solve anything? Why fix something that isn't broken?
How about the families that have kids in extra-curricular activities such as sports, youth groups, scouting, music and any other number of events that require traveling to tournaments, programs, competitions and any other number of activities?
And then you admitted to the entire religious group that is inconvenienced.
So again, I will ask; What is the point of changing the scheduled date if it doesn't actually solve anything? Why fix something that isn't broken?
By listing the number of people who would be inconvenienced by a Saturday election you have effectively ceded me my point.
A little league game is no longer than 90 minutes. Children these days can't concentrate for a minute, let alone nine innings or four quarters. This Saturday, if its not too cold in Iowa, go drive around and tell me how many children's sports activities you see going on after 1 p.m. or so. Not many. I used to referee youth soccer games, I know.
Little league does not last from 9 am to 5 p.m. with a 45 minute break for lunch.
Music: Bands don't practice for 8 hours a day unless they are under the tutelage of Fela Kuti or James Brown.
Medical professionals: More medical professionals work on Tuesdays than on Saturdays. If you don't believe me, try to find a dermatologist or a orthodontist this Saturday.
OTR truckers: Don't just work on weekends. They work on Tuesdays, too.
---•---
It is a fact of American life that more people work on Tuesday than work on Saturday. When the American founding fathers selected Tuesday, they did so for the convenience of everyday Americans. Today, Saturdays are clearly a more convenient day for Americans than Tuesday. Why do you think all those sporting events and band practices happen on Saturdays? It would not be, in my view, a monumental chore to reschedule the 2012 elections for a Saturday-- and it is pretty reasonable conclusion that more people would be inclined to vote if they had a wide open Saturday afternoon, rather than a lunch hour or an after-work commute home window to cast their ballots.
Shouldn't the government do what it can, within reason, to make voting easier for Americans? You keep saying if it's not broken don't fix it, but it is kinda inconvenient to vote sometimes, for some people, and this isn't a huge 'fix.' It's really a minor adjustment.
I recognize you're trying to have some fun here and stake out a devil's advocate position, but well, it's your party. Live on.
So you cede my point that changing the day of the week doesn't really fix anything, but it shifts the inconvenience from one group to another.
This debate is madness.
Allow me to chip in my two cents:
Saturdays are huge for families. It's the only time SOME families have a few hours to spend with each other. Unless you hate children and want to tear my family apart.
And Tuesday is Subway's Meatball 6-inch special, so that day doesn't work for me. It's one of the few things I enjoy in my pathetic life, and that's the only day I can afford the $2.99 special with chips and a Coke. Unless you want me to starve.
This is the most enjoyable debate I've seen in a long time.
You have mail-in ballots, do you not?
Pick the freaking day you want to vote, pull out your pen, lick the envelope, and visit your mailbox.
Po. Stage. Free.
Now stock-brokers, and bus drivers and Orthodox Jews can all vote and be happy.
It's nice to see, however, that this is the pressing issue on people's minds. With all of this nation's other problems solved and all...
Allow me to chip in my two cents:
Saturdays are huge for families. It's the only time SOME families have a few hours to spend with each other. Unless you hate children and want to tear my family apart.
And Tuesday is Subway's Meatball 6-inch special, so that day doesn't work for me. It's one of the few things I enjoy in my pathetic life, and that's the only day I can afford the $2.99 special with chips and a Coke. Unless you want me to starve.
This is the most enjoyable debate I've seen in a long time.
You have mail-in ballots, do you not?
Pick the freaking day you want to vote, pull out your pen, lick the envelope, and visit your mailbox.
Po. Stage. Free.
Now stock-brokers, and bus drivers and Orthodox Jews can all vote and be happy.
It's nice to see, however, that this is the pressing issue on people's minds. With all of this nation's other problems solved and all...
QUOTE(scubatim @ Feb 7 2008, 10:33 PM)
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 08:08 PM)
QUOTE
How many OTR truckers drive on Saturdays? How many service industry professionals work on Saturdays? How many medical professionals work on Saturdays? How many tourism industry professionals work on Saturdays? And that is just the beginning of the list.
How about the families that have kids in extra-curricular activities such as sports, youth groups, scouting, music and any other number of events that require traveling to tournaments, programs, competitions and any other number of activities?
And then you admitted to the entire religious group that is inconvenienced.
So again, I will ask; What is the point of changing the scheduled date if it doesn't actually solve anything? Why fix something that isn't broken?
How about the families that have kids in extra-curricular activities such as sports, youth groups, scouting, music and any other number of events that require traveling to tournaments, programs, competitions and any other number of activities?
And then you admitted to the entire religious group that is inconvenienced.
So again, I will ask; What is the point of changing the scheduled date if it doesn't actually solve anything? Why fix something that isn't broken?
By listing the number of people who would be inconvenienced by a Saturday election you have effectively ceded me my point.
A little league game is no longer than 90 minutes. Children these days can't concentrate for a minute, let alone nine innings or four quarters. This Saturday, if its not too cold in Iowa, go drive around and tell me how many children's sports activities you see going on after 1 p.m. or so. Not many. I used to referee youth soccer games, I know.
Little league does not last from 9 am to 5 p.m. with a 45 minute break for lunch.
Music: Bands don't practice for 8 hours a day unless they are under the tutelage of Fela Kuti or James Brown.
Medical professionals: More medical professionals work on Tuesdays than on Saturdays. If you don't believe me, try to find a dermatologist or a orthodontist this Saturday.
OTR truckers: Don't just work on weekends. They work on Tuesdays, too.
---•---
It is a fact of American life that more people work on Tuesday than work on Saturday. When the American founding fathers selected Tuesday, they did so for the convenience of everyday Americans. Today, Saturdays are clearly a more convenient day for Americans than Tuesday. Why do you think all those sporting events and band practices happen on Saturdays? It would not be, in my view, a monumental chore to reschedule the 2012 elections for a Saturday-- and it is pretty reasonable conclusion that more people would be inclined to vote if they had a wide open Saturday afternoon, rather than a lunch hour or an after-work commute home window to cast their ballots.
Shouldn't the government do what it can, within reason, to make voting easier for Americans? You keep saying if it's not broken don't fix it, but it is kinda inconvenient to vote sometimes, for some people, and this isn't a huge 'fix.' It's really a minor adjustment.
I recognize you're trying to have some fun here and stake out a devil's advocate position, but well, it's your party. Live on.
So you cede my point that changing the day of the week doesn't really fix anything, but it shifts the inconvenience from one group to another.
Yes! It shift the inconvenience from a very large group -- working Americans -- to a much, much, much smaller group -- Americans who work on Saturday.
Like I said, there's no perfect fix. Even if election day was a holiday on par with Christmas morning, cops and doctors would still be on duty. But isn't it reasonable to ask the government to make election day as accessible for the most number of Americans as possible? Why exactly not? Would it cost a lot of money? (Don't see how.) Take up too much time on the congressional calendar? (What doesn't?) Jeopardize the attendance at the local little league stadium?
We scheduled our election on Tuesday because it was convenient for agrarian Americans. Today, we are a working society that lives on a Monday through Friday schedule. We're waddling into no-brainer territory here.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 08:41 PM)
Yes! It shift the inconvenience from a very large group -- working Americans -- to a much, much, much smaller group -- Americans who work on Saturday.
Like I said, there's no perfect fix. Even if election day was a holiday on par with Christmas morning, cops and doctors would still be on duty. But isn't it reasonable to ask the government to make election day as accessible for the most number of Americans as possible? Why exactly not? Would it cost a lot of money? (Don't see how.) Take up too much time on the congressional calendar? (What doesn't?) Jeopardize the attendance at the local little league stadium?
We scheduled our election on Tuesday because it was convenient for agrarian Americans. Today, we are a working society that lives on a Monday through Friday schedule. We're waddling into no-brainer territory here.
Like I said, there's no perfect fix. Even if election day was a holiday on par with Christmas morning, cops and doctors would still be on duty. But isn't it reasonable to ask the government to make election day as accessible for the most number of Americans as possible? Why exactly not? Would it cost a lot of money? (Don't see how.) Take up too much time on the congressional calendar? (What doesn't?) Jeopardize the attendance at the local little league stadium?
We scheduled our election on Tuesday because it was convenient for agrarian Americans. Today, we are a working society that lives on a Monday through Friday schedule. We're waddling into no-brainer territory here.
Again I ask, with the options available, why is voting so prohibitive? There are laws protecting those that have to leave work, there are absentee ballots for those that are going to be away, and the polls are open for the vast majority of working Americans that work 8 hours. I would be interested in seeing exactly how many Americans are unable to work because of 12 hour shifts. It appears we are speculating that there are a few hundred thousand. Is this an actual fact? Are there actually that many people that go into work before 7am and stay until or after 7pm?
QUOTE(scubatim @ Feb 7 2008, 06:49 PM)
Again I ask, with the options available, why is voting so prohibitive? There are laws protecting those that have to leave work, there are absentee ballots for those that are going to be away, and the polls are open for the vast majority of working Americans that work 8 hours. I would be interested in seeing exactly how many Americans are unable to work because of 12 hour shifts. It appears we are speculating that there are a few hundred thousand. Is this an actual fact? Are there actually that many people that go into work before 7am and stay until or after 7pm?
It's a bit disingenuous to speak of those laws as if they were uniform, because they aren't. Most states have laws that protect employees for voting, but not all. And those laws vary from state to state. Many require the time off to be paid leave, but again, not all.
QUOTE
Almost every state prohibits employers from disciplining or firing an employee who takes time off work to vote. Some state laws require employers to give their employees a specific amount of time off to cast their ballots; in most of these states, the time an employee takes off must be paid.
Often, how much time off you have to provide depends on the employee's schedule -- for example, if an employee has two or three consecutive hours off while the polls are open or otherwise has enough time to vote before or after work, you may not have to let the employee take leave to vote during work hours.
The obligations of these laws do not fall entirely on employers, however. In some states, employees who want to take advantage of these laws must meet certain requirements, like proving that they actually cast ballots or giving their employers notice, in advance, that they intend to take time off work to vote. To find out the rules in your state, contact your state labor department.
- source
Often, how much time off you have to provide depends on the employee's schedule -- for example, if an employee has two or three consecutive hours off while the polls are open or otherwise has enough time to vote before or after work, you may not have to let the employee take leave to vote during work hours.
The obligations of these laws do not fall entirely on employers, however. In some states, employees who want to take advantage of these laws must meet certain requirements, like proving that they actually cast ballots or giving their employers notice, in advance, that they intend to take time off work to vote. To find out the rules in your state, contact your state labor department.
- source
Second, I find it interesting that it is conservatives defending the current, antiquated voting system. Interesting, because heavy voter turnout favors Democratic candidates.
It is the working poor who have the hardest time getting to the ballot boxes. I'd say, even if we don't change the day or make it a holiday, the laws protecting employees need to be federal, and need to be advertised and enforced. The problem with this idea is that the interests served most by making voting easier for Americans are not the interests of the power structure - indeed they are the interests most threatening to that power. For the entrenched center-right political gentry, getting any more of the 'rabble' to vote would be not just an inconvenience, but threatening.
QUOTE
Second, I find it interesting that it is conservatives defending the current, antiquated voting system. Interesting, because heavy voter turnout favors Democratic candidates.
It is the working poor who have the hardest time getting to the ballot boxes.
It is the working poor who have the hardest time getting to the ballot boxes.
And the mail boxes too? Stupid OLDSCHOOL MAIL. Sooooo outdated!
If you want a good argument, it's our generally conservative military that has the hardest time getting to the ballot boxes.
I like the way you lumped "Democrats" with "working poor". I live pretty close to paycheck to paycheck, yet I work weekends, vote Republican and have yet to miss an election.
Using your logic, how could this possibly be?
QUOTE
For the entrenched center-right political gentry, getting any more of the 'rabble' to vote would be not just an inconvenience, but threatening.
The answer is "If there's a will, there's a way". The problem is that IF you WERE correct, which is debatable, that still leaves a lot of apathetic Democrat voters who just don't care enough every year to get out and vote. You'd think with all the benefits Democrats promise over and over that the people in agreement would get off their duffs and pull the lever once every four years to get them. Or mail a postage free card for them. After that, there's not much the government can be blamed for. (Or Republicans, tho we all know it's a giant conspiracy against poor people..)
Hmmm. Guess not. Let's blame the voting system. Or the day of the week.
Here's a question, Quark. Were you able to vote? It's a yes or no question. Don't spend your time defending the apathetic people who didn't bother to make their voice heard.
Finally, you guys realize that if it was a national holiday, NO FEDERAL EMPLOYEES would be working! Who the heck is going to count the votes? It's a day off!
And those apathetics would be out taking advantage of a three day weekend. (That's a sneaky way of getting those rich Republican RV'ers and jet boaters away from the ballot box!) Sweet. I just think I discovered another
conspiracy! Get those wascly wepubwicans away from the voter booth via National Holiday.This is priceless.
QUOTE(azwhitewolf)
I like the way you lumped "Democrats" with "working poor". I live pretty close to paycheck to paycheck, yet I work weekends, vote Republican and have yet to miss an election.
Using your logic, how could this possibly be?
Using your logic, how could this possibly be?
I didn't lump them together. They were two consecutive sentences, but in different paragraphs. Heavier voter turnout does tend to favor Democratic candidates. I'm not making that up. There are two large groups who abstain from voting in significant numbers. African Americans, who in this lifetime have had to overcome serious efforts at disenfranchisement, and recent immigrants, who could not vote until they were citizens. Both of these groups tend to vote Democratic. By no means did I say, or imply, that every working poor person is a Democrat or a liberal. Your using yourself as an exception has absolutely nothing to do with my "logic," as you have put it, since I have not said every poor person is a Democrat.
Liberal, progressive changes in this nation have always boiled upward. While conservative hacks love to poke sticks at rarified liberal academes, it is the working poor who have bled and died for progressive change in this country.
QUOTE
The answer is "If there's a will, there's a way". The problem is that IF you WERE correct, which is debatable, that still leaves a lot of apathetic Democrat voters who just don't care enough every year to get out and vote. You'd think with all the benefits Democrats promise over and over that the people in agreement would get off their duffs and pull the lever once every four years to get them. Or mail a postage free card for them. After that, there's not much the government can be blamed for. (Or Republicans, tho we all know it's a giant conspiracy against poor people..) ohmy.gif
Hmmm. Guess not. Let's blame the voting system. Or the day of the week.
Hmmm. Guess not. Let's blame the voting system. Or the day of the week.
I guess my question to you - and to the other 'defenders of tradition' - is, why is this such a big deal? Sure there's apathetic people, and nothing's going to change that. But would it really be any skin off our teeth to at the least follow my suggestion? Federalize the laws protecting employees regarding voting. Advertise those laws - they should be posted in handbooks or be accessible at workplaces. Why not make it easier for more people to vote? What are you so scared of? Is it really necessary to just start insulting vast swathes of the electorate as lazy and apathetic?
Finally, you can lay off the silly partisan jabs. I'm not a Democrat, and in spite of your insinuations I am not running around concocting right-wing conspiracy theories. The difference between the two main parties is very slight, where it even exists outside the minds of brainwashed fools. The cynical Democratic Party wants more people to vote because they know that helps their party, not because they are really interested in serving those demographics with real change. The Republican party only wants to depress voter turnout because they know the bigger numbers work against their party, not because they secretly hate the electorate. There, I hope I've insulted both sides enough for ya!
You keep harping on how if people really want to vote they will find a way to do it. I agree, but that really doesn't mean we can't try and make the job easier. One might as well argue that Congress people shouldn't accept email or telephone calls, because if people really wanted to get in touch with them, they'd get off their lazy butts and send a telegraph or handwrite a letter using a feather quill. We live in the wealthiest nation in the world; and ours is a culture of convenience. And of all the silly things we do to make it easier for us to never have to leave our couches, you're gonna suddenly raise cain about convenience in voting?
QUOTE(quarkhead @ Feb 8 2008, 06:48 AM)
I guess my question to you - and to the other 'defenders of tradition' - is, why is this such a big deal?
My counter question is what is the point? We haven't seen any evidence that there is a problem that can be fixed by making election day fall on a Saturday or make it a national holiday.
QUOTE(scubatim @ Feb 8 2008, 08:36 AM)
QUOTE(quarkhead @ Feb 8 2008, 06:48 AM)
I guess my question to you - and to the other 'defenders of tradition' - is, why is this such a big deal?
My counter question is what is the point? We haven't seen any evidence that there is a problem that can be fixed by making election day fall on a Saturday or make it a national holiday.
We even had a smaller discussion one time as to the merits of having a two-or-three day national election and I believe the general consensus was that if people are lazy on weekdays when they're already out-and-about, imagine the voter turnout on Saturday when people are just as inclined to sleep in and water the garden as they are to take to the voting box.
I still maintain that voter apathy is a product of voter laziness and not lack of access.
As Wertz alluded to, even the Obama Girl didn't vote for Obama. She claims she was sick. Of course, she was well enough to attend a party that night.
This is indicative of many voters. They either don't think their vote matters, have better things to do or simply don't care enough to vote. I have yet to see any indication that there is some huge (or even significant) group of people that find the current situation so onerous that they want to vote but simply can't because of our antiquated election schedule.
I believe that Americans are more defensive of their free time than their work time. I hypothesize that moving elections to weekends would probably lead to lower voter turn out as people are busy with other things and can't be bothered to vote. Having it on a weekday allows people to use work time to get thier civic duty done. Moving it to a Saturday will mean people will sleep in, be at a football game, watch TV, go to their kid's basketball game or something else. Most people I know of vote either going to or coming home from work. They don't take time in the middle of the afternoon to do it.
As Wertz alluded to, even the Obama Girl didn't vote for Obama. She claims she was sick. Of course, she was well enough to attend a party that night.
This is indicative of many voters. They either don't think their vote matters, have better things to do or simply don't care enough to vote. I have yet to see any indication that there is some huge (or even significant) group of people that find the current situation so onerous that they want to vote but simply can't because of our antiquated election schedule.
I believe that Americans are more defensive of their free time than their work time. I hypothesize that moving elections to weekends would probably lead to lower voter turn out as people are busy with other things and can't be bothered to vote. Having it on a weekday allows people to use work time to get thier civic duty done. Moving it to a Saturday will mean people will sleep in, be at a football game, watch TV, go to their kid's basketball game or something else. Most people I know of vote either going to or coming home from work. They don't take time in the middle of the afternoon to do it.
QUOTE(Amlord @ Feb 8 2008, 11:20 AM)
I believe that Americans are more defensive of their free time than their work time. I hypothesize that moving elections to weekends would probably lead to lower voter turn out as people are busy with other things and can't be bothered to vote. Having it on a weekday allows people to use work time to get thier civic duty done. Moving it to a Saturday will mean people will sleep in, be at a football game, watch TV, go to their kid's basketball game or something else. Most people I know of vote either going to or coming home from work. They don't take time in the middle of the afternoon to do it.
Well put. And that is what is mostly wrong with this country. If more people became involved with the process, we'd see a great improvement in the quality of leaders. We really have no one to blame but ourselves because people seem wholly disinclined to vote on a Tuesday. What else is so important that you were up late for on a Monday or can't spare an hour on a Tuesday... If even that much?
It's so easy to vote in this country due to early voting and absentee ballots. So if you're just that lazy, it's easy to get involved with the voting process, believe it or not.
If having the polls be open on a Tuesday creates this much of a debate, what would a debate look like if the topic of proving your identity at the polls came up? 
QUOTE(VDemosthenes @ Feb 8 2008, 09:01 AM)
QUOTE(Amlord @ Feb 8 2008, 11:20 AM)
I believe that Americans are more defensive of their free time than their work time. I hypothesize that moving elections to weekends would probably lead to lower voter turn out as people are busy with other things and can't be bothered to vote. Having it on a weekday allows people to use work time to get thier civic duty done. Moving it to a Saturday will mean people will sleep in, be at a football game, watch TV, go to their kid's basketball game or something else. Most people I know of vote either going to or coming home from work. They don't take time in the middle of the afternoon to do it.
Well put. And that is what is mostly wrong with this country. If more people became involved with the process, we'd see a great improvement in the quality of leaders. We really have no one to blame but ourselves because people seem wholly disinclined to vote on a Tuesday. What else is so important that you were up late for on a Monday or can't spare an hour on a Tuesday... If even that much?
It's so easy to vote in this country due to early voting and absentee ballots. So if you're just that lazy, it's easy to get involved with the voting process, believe it or not.
Personally, I've not suggested we move the day. I think a weekday is fine. However, I still think it would be a good idea to federalize the laws protecting employees when it comes to voting. In an economy where we have such a significant service sector, we need to ensure that waiters, dishwashers, bellmen, customer service reps, and the like are able to leave work - paid - to cast their vote. Are Americans apathetic about voting? Sure they are. And it's not entirely their fault. People feel disconnected from and frustrated with an apathetic leadership. We like to tout our country as a light for democracy, and yet our own government can't find a way to ensure all registered voters can vote with impunity concerning their employment? If we love democracy, we should be doing everything we can to get people to vote. So instead of deriding their apathy, we ought to be engaging them. We on this board represent a pretty small segment of the population, being politically active and wanting to discuss politics. We ought to be getting out the vote, not just insulting those that for whatever reasons haven't cast ballots.
I agree with you on federal voting right protections, quark.
However, shaking certain segments of the population out of their doldrums of apathy is probably never going to happen. I want an informed electorate, one who votes in their own self interest. I don't want people who are mezmorized by rhetoric without substance. For the most part, you cannot know a candidates positions by hearing their stump speech. We'd be lucky if the average apathetic voter even knew that much about the candidates. More than likely, they'd know : he's the black guy or she's the one that was married to Bill or he was the guy from Law & Order. Do we want people voting on superficial matters?
However, shaking certain segments of the population out of their doldrums of apathy is probably never going to happen. I want an informed electorate, one who votes in their own self interest. I don't want people who are mezmorized by rhetoric without substance. For the most part, you cannot know a candidates positions by hearing their stump speech. We'd be lucky if the average apathetic voter even knew that much about the candidates. More than likely, they'd know : he's the black guy or she's the one that was married to Bill or he was the guy from Law & Order. Do we want people voting on superficial matters?
QUOTE(Amlord @ Feb 8 2008, 01:44 PM)
I agree with you on federal voting right protections, quark.
However, shaking certain segments of the population out of their doldrums of apathy is probably never going to happen. I want an informed electorate, one who votes in their own self interest. I don't want people who are mezmorized by rhetoric without substance. For the most part, you cannot know a candidates positions by hearing their stump speech. We'd be lucky if the average apathetic voter even knew that much about the candidates. More than likely, they'd know : he's the black guy or she's the one that was married to Bill or he was the guy from Law & Order. Do we want people voting on superficial matters?
However, shaking certain segments of the population out of their doldrums of apathy is probably never going to happen. I want an informed electorate, one who votes in their own self interest. I don't want people who are mezmorized by rhetoric without substance. For the most part, you cannot know a candidates positions by hearing their stump speech. We'd be lucky if the average apathetic voter even knew that much about the candidates. More than likely, they'd know : he's the black guy or she's the one that was married to Bill or he was the guy from Law & Order. Do we want people voting on superficial matters?
What makes you think that the people who do vote already aren't 'mesmerized by rhetoric?' On this board we are all politically interested, and mostly active - and yet (on both sides of the aisle) people here put forth arguments as ignorant or be-mesmered if you will, as any political naif or apathetic citizen. It happens with sad frequency. Your idea of self interest is different than mine, surely. You would say voting for 'socialist' leaning policies, while perhaps attractive in the short term, actually work against one's self interest. I would disagree.
It seems that the bar keeps moving. Suggest ways to get more people to the polls, and suddenly we're not just insulting peoples' laziness, we're insulting their intelligence too. Gosh, we don't want the unwashed masses to vote, because gee, they'd vote for the wrong things!
And as far as the superficial aspect of candidacies and elections goes, perhaps we see a different origin. I think it is more the fault of the media and of the 'leaders' themselves, than it is the people. The candidates rarely really discuss the issues. And the media is happy to report hairstyles and tawdry gossip. It's still my belief that the owners of a republican (small "r") system want a low voter turnout. Let the people fight over wedge issues that get them hot and bothered, while the gentry continue to laugh their way to the bank. Are there politicians that really care? Sure. I'm generalizing, but there's just far too many rich folks in both parties who benefit mightily from us getting caught up in hot-button issues while they continue to run a government that benefits them over all others.
In short, though we on AD - and elsewhere - may talk a lot about political issues, I hold that we are not really more informed about candidates and issues than the average person. Oh, we may pay more attention to the issues, we may know, in general, what more of the issues are, but our positions and conclusions about those issues are no more enlightened for our interest in them.
QUOTE
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
People are having a hard time showing up at the polls? Didn't know that was a problem. People can use their lunch breaks or time before or after work to vote. I've worked every shift imaginable and haven't had a problem with it. I would like to see things like voting at malls and other public places, I think that would definitely be more "user friendly," which is a good thing.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 03:52 PM)
Yes, we've had similar discussions about the awkward details of our voting system, but this one is a more blunt topic I'm starting here.
Polls in Georgia were open from 9 Am to 7 PM, Tuesday. Except that, in Atlanta and elsewhere various precincts had a TWO HOUR or more wait. Which by itself is unacceptable.
But for daily workers with short lunch breaks and 9-5 schedules, that amounts to something fairly close to disenfranchisement, and not just for poor day laborers. Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers, any number of professional working people would have found it impossible to vote on Super Tuesday.
Which brings me to my question.
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
Polls in Georgia were open from 9 Am to 7 PM, Tuesday. Except that, in Atlanta and elsewhere various precincts had a TWO HOUR or more wait. Which by itself is unacceptable.
But for daily workers with short lunch breaks and 9-5 schedules, that amounts to something fairly close to disenfranchisement, and not just for poor day laborers. Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers, any number of professional working people would have found it impossible to vote on Super Tuesday.
Which brings me to my question.
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
For comparison in the UK day is a Thursday but we keep the polls open until 9pm. So you can vote and then go down the pub. I think closing as early as 7pm is a bit crazy. It wouldnt work here in the S.E. UK, as most commuters who work in London dont get home until after 7pm.
Its not a national holiday but schools which are ballot stations get the day off.
I would suggest a much longer voting day.
QUOTE(derekm @ Mar 25 2008, 10:36 AM)
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 03:52 PM)
Yes, we've had similar discussions about the awkward details of our voting system, but this one is a more blunt topic I'm starting here.
Polls in Georgia were open from 9 Am to 7 PM, Tuesday. Except that, in Atlanta and elsewhere various precincts had a TWO HOUR or more wait. Which by itself is unacceptable.
But for daily workers with short lunch breaks and 9-5 schedules, that amounts to something fairly close to disenfranchisement, and not just for poor day laborers. Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers, any number of professional working people would have found it impossible to vote on Super Tuesday.
Which brings me to my question.
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
Polls in Georgia were open from 9 Am to 7 PM, Tuesday. Except that, in Atlanta and elsewhere various precincts had a TWO HOUR or more wait. Which by itself is unacceptable.
But for daily workers with short lunch breaks and 9-5 schedules, that amounts to something fairly close to disenfranchisement, and not just for poor day laborers. Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers, any number of professional working people would have found it impossible to vote on Super Tuesday.
Which brings me to my question.
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
For comparison in the UK day is a Thursday but we keep the polls open until 9pm. So you can vote and then go down the pub. I think closing as early as 7pm is a bit crazy. It wouldnt work here in the S.E. UK, as most commuters who work in London dont get home until after 7pm.
Its not a national holiday but schools which are ballot stations get the day off.
I would suggest a much longer voting day.
I can't think of a reason why we couldn't make that change. I do know, however that if there are people still needing to vote at 7, the polling place can stay open beyond that time to allow everyone to vote.
QUOTE(scubatim @ Mar 25 2008, 09:40 AM)
I can't think of a reason why we couldn't make that change. I do know, however that if there are people still needing to vote at 7, the polling place can stay open beyond that time to allow everyone to vote.
Can, sure. Will? That's a different question. I have seen polls close twice with people still in line waiting to vote. Once when I was one of the last ones let in, and once when I was left outside. So, changing the closing time to allow everyone sufficient time to get to the polls and vote wouldn't hurt. What's the reason not to do so? The only one I can think of is that it would take a couple hours longer to tabulate the results. The only group really hurt by this would be the media. Is inconveniencing the media sufficient reason to close polls unnecessarily early? I don't think so. However, more and more people are voting early now, and electronic voting is probably going to become more commonplace as well. So, the problem will probably go away on its own before any voting time change was enacted.
QUOTE(Hobbes @ Mar 25 2008, 12:21 PM)
QUOTE(scubatim @ Mar 25 2008, 09:40 AM)
I can't think of a reason why we couldn't make that change. I do know, however that if there are people still needing to vote at 7, the polling place can stay open beyond that time to allow everyone to vote.
Can, sure. Will? That's a different question. I have seen polls close twice with people still in line waiting to vote. Once when I was one of the last ones let in, and once when I was left outside. So, changing the closing time to allow everyone sufficient time to get to the polls and vote wouldn't hurt. What's the reason not to do so? The only one I can think of is that it would take a couple hours longer to tabulate the results. The only group really hurt by this would be the media. Is inconveniencing the media sufficient reason to close polls unnecessarily early? I don't think so. However, more and more people are voting early now, and electronic voting is probably going to become more commonplace as well. So, the problem will probably go away on its own before any voting time change was enacted.
Unfortunate that it has happend twice in your witness. Was this the same precinct? Maybe I would be surprised, but I don't know if this is a epidemic accross the nation. I would believe a few places throughout the country, but for the most part, I think the doors stay open long enough.
I agree that the only ones really inconvenienced would be the media. Recent history tells us that the results won't be accurately tabulated before the next day's lunch hour anyway. I guess it might be hard to find volunteers to man the polling places longer than they already are set up, but I am sure with enough effort, volunteers could be found.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 11:52 AM)
Yes, we've had similar discussions about the awkward details of our voting system, but this one is a more blunt topic I'm starting here.
Polls in Georgia were open from 9 Am to 7 PM, Tuesday. Except that, in Atlanta and elsewhere various precincts had a TWO HOUR or more wait. Which by itself is unacceptable.
But for daily workers with short lunch breaks and 9-5 schedules, that amounts to something fairly close to disenfranchisement, and not just for poor day laborers. Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers, any number of professional working people would have found it impossible to vote on Super Tuesday.
Which brings me to my question.
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
Polls in Georgia were open from 9 Am to 7 PM, Tuesday. Except that, in Atlanta and elsewhere various precincts had a TWO HOUR or more wait. Which by itself is unacceptable.
But for daily workers with short lunch breaks and 9-5 schedules, that amounts to something fairly close to disenfranchisement, and not just for poor day laborers. Teachers, Bank Tellers, Office folks, stock brokers, bus drivers, any number of professional working people would have found it impossible to vote on Super Tuesday.
Which brings me to my question.
1.) Why are so many of our local and national elections scheduled on the seemingly arbitrarily-chosen weekday of Tuesday? Why not Saturday or Sunday?
2.) Why not make election day a national holiday?
3.) What would it take for us to make election day a holiday, or to hold more elections on weekends?
Your suggestion about "evil" Georgia is not accurate. In Georgia, if one is in line (no matter how far down the block) by 7PM, the polling place must stay open until the last person in line at 7PM has voted, even if that means 9 or 10 PM. Basically, the polls are open all day, from 7AM until the last person in line at 7PM has voted.
I'll not comment on the rest, but I did need to clarify your facts.
Election Day should be a natl holiday not because current voting standards are a hardship nor because voting needs to be highlighted so people go out and vote. People, every adult registered American is able to go out and vote, whether or not she chooses to, and that is something that ought to be celebrated. Why Independence Day and not this? Crap, I'll give up t-giving (my favorite holiday) for Election Day.
Rather have Election Day than Xmas or New Year's.
Rather have Election Day than Xmas or New Year's.
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