Full Version: American Culture and "Politeness"
My godmother is a blue blooded aristocratic southerner, a wispy elderly lady with a face carved out of time and marble. Growing up southern, our interactions with her were rich in formalities, "yes mams," and such. On the few occasions when I accidently answered one of her questions with a "yeah" or worse, an "mm-hmm," the utterances sounded as rude coming out of my mouth as a burp. I couldn't imagine ignoring her while playing a handheld gameboy or something in her presence. Not that I'm condemning or condoning that kind of thing, I'm just pointing it out.
My grandfather, on the other hand, was a poor-born southern boy from Siler City, NC -- as far from the blue blooded world of my godmother as culturally possible -- so our interactions with him were different. He chewed dip, talked without end, and teased people, loudly, in a manner that would have seemed appalling and brash to my godmother. But he too, lived in a world rich with formalities: every conversation he had meandered through a specific list of inquiries -- Hows your mother, hows your sister, hows your father, so on. "how ya doing" for him was an extended conversation and a poor-man's version of decorum.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the world I've grown into is far more informal -- strikingly so. Or maybe our formalities have changed. Not sure. I'm interested in your take on it.
In your view, has America become a more informal society over the course of your lifetime?
What, say, 50 years ago was acceptable that would today be considered impolite? What was considered impolite 50 years ago that would today be considered acceptable?
Do you see our changing definition of politeness as a cultural erosion or merely a shift in cultural norms? Or some combination of both?
My grandfather, on the other hand, was a poor-born southern boy from Siler City, NC -- as far from the blue blooded world of my godmother as culturally possible -- so our interactions with him were different. He chewed dip, talked without end, and teased people, loudly, in a manner that would have seemed appalling and brash to my godmother. But he too, lived in a world rich with formalities: every conversation he had meandered through a specific list of inquiries -- Hows your mother, hows your sister, hows your father, so on. "how ya doing" for him was an extended conversation and a poor-man's version of decorum.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the world I've grown into is far more informal -- strikingly so. Or maybe our formalities have changed. Not sure. I'm interested in your take on it.
In your view, has America become a more informal society over the course of your lifetime?
What, say, 50 years ago was acceptable that would today be considered impolite? What was considered impolite 50 years ago that would today be considered acceptable?
Do you see our changing definition of politeness as a cultural erosion or merely a shift in cultural norms? Or some combination of both?
Good one Drew. This should generate some interesting responses.
In your view, has America become a more informal society over the course of your lifetime?
Absolutely. The only time you'd hear a "sir" nowaday is from someone over 40, or in the military.
Impolite today: I guess racial stereotypes or openly told jokes, as society has progressed (thankfully!). Smoking apparently became the worst thing you could do around someone else, whereas people before just dealt with it. I remember my mom smoking in the grocery store. Now you can't even smoke where kids aren't allowed to go.
Polite today, impolite yesterday: I'd have to say the amount of asscrack you can see on kids today. We kind of sympathized with the fat plumber years ago, but kids could care less. And showing up to school in your pajamas and slippers. WTH is THAT about?! Swearing on TV. But some of that is the best that these writers can come up with, apparently - never mind being clever or original. Also, shock has gained wide acceptance. Americans seem to thrive on it.
I think we're becoming more laid back and less formal. I think in the culture arena, that's okay. It's not about who has the hip clothes or killer hairstyles anymore. It's about who you are, what you do, and what you contribute. I think I've heard more people become less selfish and more aware of their surroundings instead of working to improve the four walls they live between. That gives me a lot of hope.
The only erosion I tend to see is the attitude people have towards each other. It used to be disagreements meant the two parties realized and decided that interaction wasn't a good solution. Today, we have adults acting like little kids (as part of the changing definition of politeness), and kids emulating violent attitudes or behavior, simply because nobody is really going to stop them. That makes me pause and wonder where the balance is.
/damn kids
//get off my lawn
In your view, has America become a more informal society over the course of your lifetime?
Absolutely. The only time you'd hear a "sir" nowaday is from someone over 40, or in the military.
QUOTE
What, say, 50 years ago was acceptable that would today be considered impolite? What was considered impolite 50 years ago that would today be considered acceptable?
Impolite today: I guess racial stereotypes or openly told jokes, as society has progressed (thankfully!). Smoking apparently became the worst thing you could do around someone else, whereas people before just dealt with it. I remember my mom smoking in the grocery store. Now you can't even smoke where kids aren't allowed to go.
Polite today, impolite yesterday: I'd have to say the amount of asscrack you can see on kids today. We kind of sympathized with the fat plumber years ago, but kids could care less. And showing up to school in your pajamas and slippers. WTH is THAT about?! Swearing on TV. But some of that is the best that these writers can come up with, apparently - never mind being clever or original. Also, shock has gained wide acceptance. Americans seem to thrive on it.
QUOTE
Do you see our changing definition of politeness as a cultural erosion or merely a shift in cultural norms? Or some combination of both?
I think we're becoming more laid back and less formal. I think in the culture arena, that's okay. It's not about who has the hip clothes or killer hairstyles anymore. It's about who you are, what you do, and what you contribute. I think I've heard more people become less selfish and more aware of their surroundings instead of working to improve the four walls they live between. That gives me a lot of hope.
The only erosion I tend to see is the attitude people have towards each other. It used to be disagreements meant the two parties realized and decided that interaction wasn't a good solution. Today, we have adults acting like little kids (as part of the changing definition of politeness), and kids emulating violent attitudes or behavior, simply because nobody is really going to stop them. That makes me pause and wonder where the balance is.
/damn kids
//get off my lawn
AZ, that is some great thinking. More than anything I have noticed that politeness is scoring zero when it comes to approaching people. If the Internet created this, I don't know, but I assume so. Why? Because it has become essential to "hook up" with people, one after another at a faster and faster rate, 
rather than lay the groundwork of making your life twinkle before you meet someone.
rather than lay the groundwork of making your life twinkle before you meet someone.
Interesting questions, with no simple answers. Let me take a stab at it.
In your view, has America become a more informal society over the course of your lifetime?
Over the last half-century or so that I can recall, I think that the biggest change I have seen in "formaliry" has been in clothing. Not an extreme change, mind you. People still "dress up" for religious services or weddings and so on. However, "typical" streetwear no longer includes hats for the gentlemen and gloves for the ladies. If the workplace is a little less informal (although a depressing number still seem to go the suit-and-tie route), that's all to the good, in my opinion. Strangely, the one area in which things seem a little more formal when it comes to dress is in public schools. I'm sure my high school had a dress code, but it never came up; nobody dressed in obviously inappropriate ways. The idea of wearing uniforms would have been laughed at.
As far as other formalities go, I don't think they have changed much. Older folks expected "thank you notes" and other symbolic gestures from young folks, who were likely to forget them. That was no different fifty years ago. As a kid, I would have been amused to hear people say "sir" or "m'am" to anybody. I suspect that was because I grew up in Southern California. Now I live in Dixie, and those two words are not uncommon. It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of geography. "Sir" and "m'am" are Southernisms, just like "y'all."
[b]What, say, 50 years ago was acceptable that would today be considered impolite? What was considered impolite 50 years ago that would today be considered acceptable?
As said, blatant prejudice is no longer acceptable among most people. I was shocked to hear somebody say "jew me down" recently; that was like going back in time. On the other hand, people are more open about discussing issues like sexual orientation. All of this is to the good, I think.
Do you see our changing definition of politeness as a cultural erosion or merely a shift in cultural norms? Or some combination of both?
Just a change, I think. I have never been fond of ritual for the sake of ritual, or formality for the sake of formality, so anything that makes things more casual is OK with me.
In your view, has America become a more informal society over the course of your lifetime?
Over the last half-century or so that I can recall, I think that the biggest change I have seen in "formaliry" has been in clothing. Not an extreme change, mind you. People still "dress up" for religious services or weddings and so on. However, "typical" streetwear no longer includes hats for the gentlemen and gloves for the ladies. If the workplace is a little less informal (although a depressing number still seem to go the suit-and-tie route), that's all to the good, in my opinion. Strangely, the one area in which things seem a little more formal when it comes to dress is in public schools. I'm sure my high school had a dress code, but it never came up; nobody dressed in obviously inappropriate ways. The idea of wearing uniforms would have been laughed at.
As far as other formalities go, I don't think they have changed much. Older folks expected "thank you notes" and other symbolic gestures from young folks, who were likely to forget them. That was no different fifty years ago. As a kid, I would have been amused to hear people say "sir" or "m'am" to anybody. I suspect that was because I grew up in Southern California. Now I live in Dixie, and those two words are not uncommon. It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of geography. "Sir" and "m'am" are Southernisms, just like "y'all."
[b]What, say, 50 years ago was acceptable that would today be considered impolite? What was considered impolite 50 years ago that would today be considered acceptable?
As said, blatant prejudice is no longer acceptable among most people. I was shocked to hear somebody say "jew me down" recently; that was like going back in time. On the other hand, people are more open about discussing issues like sexual orientation. All of this is to the good, I think.
Do you see our changing definition of politeness as a cultural erosion or merely a shift in cultural norms? Or some combination of both?
Just a change, I think. I have never been fond of ritual for the sake of ritual, or formality for the sake of formality, so anything that makes things more casual is OK with me.
QUOTE(drewyorktimes @ Feb 7 2008, 09:34 PM) 
In your view, has America become a more informal society over the course of your lifetime?
What, say, 50 years ago was acceptable that would today be considered impolite? What was considered impolite 50 years ago that would today be considered acceptable?
Do you see our changing definition of politeness as a cultural erosion or merely a shift in cultural norms? Or some combination of both?
What, say, 50 years ago was acceptable that would today be considered impolite? What was considered impolite 50 years ago that would today be considered acceptable?
Do you see our changing definition of politeness as a cultural erosion or merely a shift in cultural norms? Or some combination of both?
1.) Considering I have only been around for seventeen years, my frame of reference is a trife limited, but I can say that I sense a more relaxed atmosphere than when I was five in 1,995. Back then, I remember kinder servicepeople, more informed instructors and gentler law enforcement. Today, my family sometimes has to unite with people around us to cause enough noise to get a drink refill in a restaurant because the server is texting, flirting, or partaking in sensual pleasures of various substances. All in all, I think we're a lot less uptight, however; that can be a good or bad thing.
2.) Given that fifty years ago things are always depicted as hunky-dory and I personally never lived through it, I must abstain.
3.) A shift. Elasticity is a survival mechanism. Just as women transitioned from hoop skirts to blue jeans, society has to evolve in order to provide meaning and purpose to its people. Change isn't something that should be shied away from or condemned, but the kind of change is something that can be regulated through fashion, art, and media. Censorship isn't a good thing either, but you always want to be the one pushing the envelope because you can never know what will become popular and how you can inspire change.
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