http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080210/ap_on_...q_soldier_trial

Today Vela was convicted of Vela of murder without premeditation (see above)

One of the main arguments of the defense was thier sleep deprivation had caused bad decision making. Most of the accounts of this seem to the same, with I think one person not making the same statements.

The best way to really harm the judgement of another is sleep deprivation- this was the tool used on our soldiers in the capture of the Pueblo by North Korea. Here is the history primer:

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/niles/lifestyl...0708-s1.article


My questions:

Considering that sleep deprivation is a means for breaking down soldiers by enemy forces, due to it's effectiveness, Is it proper to convict these soldiers of anything, considering the diminished capacity defense due to sleep deprivation? (Let's assume they were actually sleep deprived for the sake of the debate)

Should soldiers be held accountable when they are stretched so thin and sleep deprived?

That's an interesting question.

Part of a soldiers training, especially for elite Ops, is extreme deprivation (sleep, food, security, sanity, air, etc.), therefore one can not blame a condition the soldier is, err... well, conditioned for. In that case, the question becomes whether the training was adequate or whether the soldier fielded had passed the training requirements. If there's one thing the Army is structured for, it's pinpointing culpability... not that they always exercise that ability.

Another consideration is 'contact'. In the field, snipers are specially ordered to avoid or neutralize 'contact'... no matter the nature or disposition of the unfortunate. It may not be legal, but it's as ancient a principle of warfare as warfare itself.

It's easy to judge from here at my desk, but I'm certain there are legal protocols for dealing with contact that include capture and moving the unfortunate to a secure location until operations have progressed.

I believe that Vela, though he bears responsibility, should have received a lesser sentence plus discharge for the reasons that;

a) It was not premeditated.
B) He was acting in the interest of his men's and his operational security.
c) His failure of judgement, whether due to sleep deprivation or otherwise, is ultimately the responsibility of the Army that deployed him.

Should soldiers be held accountable when they are stretched so thin and sleep deprived?

I can post volumes on Sniper training and capabilities, but I'm short on time right now. I'll address this and post more later if it will be relevant.

Sleep deprivation and it's effects on soldiers reasoning abilities is primarily a leadership issue. If Vela was the senior man in the hide site, he knew enough as an NCO to rotate himself off of the gun. If he wasn't the senior man, if SSG Hensley was at the same site, then Vela should have been rotated out with his spotter or another sniper. This may have been conducted, and Vela is simply using it as an alibi for poor judgement. This may come down to two testimonies by two NCO's.

If ordered to remain on the gun longer than common sense and logic dictates, then SSG Hensley should have received a harsher punishment than Vela. Soliders should be held accountable for their individual actions, but cases of leadership failure, the leader in question should pay the stiffer price for poor judgment.



I disagree. Speaking for the US Army, of which Vela is a member, the only course that has sleep deprivation specifically included in its Program of Instruction is Ranger School. Vela may or may not be a Ranger. Assuming for the sake of argument that Vela is a graduate of the US Army Sniper School, sleep deprivation is not a formal part of that course. Sniper School is physically and mentally grueling, but the cadre do not keep students awake for the sake of sleep deprivation. Even in Ranger School, the lack of sleep component is to evaluate how Ranger students are able to react under pressure with a lack of sleep and food. This is a tool to let the Ranger realize how this effects the decision making process, and for him to find personal ways to adapt when possible. Ranger School does not condition students to sleep deprivation, that is summarily impossible. The human body simply doesn't work that way. You can't condition a car to keep running after the fuel tank is dry. Humans and sleep are the same in that regard.

Again, I wasn't there so it's hard to simply pass judgement on who was at fault, but it nonetheless is a failure of leadership.

I understand, and I appreciate the counsel of your expertise. I myself have never served, but have trained, mostly informally, with Marine, Navy, Army, Air Force, Ranger, Seal, and Para-rescue trained individuals for various purposes. The short of it is that I trained my HtH, Marksmanship, and CQC Knife with Marines, one Ranger, one Seal, and one Para-Rescue trooper (non-respective), and was hired by some Navy, Army, and Air-Force kids to give them an edge-up in swimming, running, HtH, Knife, and general core-building/endurance exercises.

On two separate occasions, while cursing, two different clients, one Navy, one AF, compared me to their SERE instructors. I didn't really deserve the distinction, but it damn near brought a tear to my eye both times.

My printed-out copy of the BUDS warning order is barely recognizable anymore.

Essentially, my understanding of military training is based on what I've gleaned during my contact with these various individuals and is in no way comprehensive. So again, I always appreciate the insights of those put themselves through the training and potentially in harm's way. Thank you.


That said, you are absolutely correct. I did not mean to imply that 'one can be trained to do without sleep and function normally' and certainly should not have worded it as such, but you did state; "Even in Ranger School, the lack of sleep component is to evaluate how Ranger students are able to react under pressure with a lack of sleep and food."

Would you say that my comment; "In that case, the question becomes whether the training was adequate or whether the soldier fielded had passed the training requirements.", applies in this case as he should have been properly evaluated and certified before being fielded?

Essentially, there has to be a point at which the Army takes responsibility for the actions of soldiers when those actions fall within the scope of training the Army has provided.

One question here, for you legal types, in my field, diminished capacity is a legit defense as a "mitigating circumstance" for a behavior like this- and would probably warrant a "not guilty due to temporary insanity"- on the ground of extreme sleep deprivation.

Sleep deprivation CAN NOT be trained away- it is a physiological defense that has no defense, if you follow me. You must sleep, or you go crazy and die- no foolin.

This is what makes most meth-heads crazy- not the drug itself, but the fact that it makes you stay up for 3 days straight- when we get someone that hasn't had sleep for three days, we hit them with a cocktail of haldol and ativan to put them out, and when they awaken- boom, no problems in judgement any longer.

I have seen more than one murder conviction set aside due to sleep deprivation.

So, I guess, without knowing more facts on the case, did the Military do in one of thier own as a sacrificial lamb here?

So far, the testimoney is that they recieved 5 hours of sleep in 72 hours- clinincally sleep deprived, almost textbook.

So why the conviction?

No. And forgive me, for this probably sounds awfully cruel and cynical, but soldiers are state-sponsored killers anyway. They should not be held accountable when the American flag flies high overhead unless they take direct and premeditated action to shame that flag. The actions in some of our prisons during this war, for example, qualifiy as cases wherein to pursue justice. But in this case, under this circumstance, a solidier is a soldier is a soldier. The matter of training has already been brought up, but the basic premise of this debate is that yes, soldiers are still humans, and yes, humans require sleep. It may not be the most air-tight defense on the planet, but it is what it is.