Full Version: Provoking jihad
Either we small European nations just don't know when to shut up or something is terribly wrong in Europe these days and apparently the only people who dare to say anything are those countries who feel untainted by the second world war and its legacy... What ever the reason is, we're seeing a lot of static with the Islamic world due to 'our' opinions about 'their' religion. Recently a German art gallery was attacked by angry Muslims demanding the removal of a Danish poster which featured the sacred Muslim shrine in Mecca as a 'stupid stone'. Before that, the Danish newspapers all reprinted the Mohammed cartoons in reaction to an uncovered plot to kill the artist behind the notorious turban headscarf drawing. We saw a week of riots and arson here in Denmark and a resumption of the anti Danish demonstrations all across the Middle East with a new boycott taking up the dropped reigns of the previous boycott.
Now after Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been chased out of Holland and Theo Van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn were both murdered, another critical Dutch MP, by the name of Geert Wilders has taken up the cause and is heralding the immediete release of a 15 minute film called 'Fitna' which he says will compare the Quran to Adolf Hitler's 'Mein Kampf'.
The Dutch government is trying to get the film banned and Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende has made the following statement;
This statement by the Prime Minister of a country like Holland makes me pause for thought because its a cut and dried question of responsibility in my mind. I don't know how any one can be made responsible for the actions of other people simply because they voiced an opinion.
Questions for your consideration:
Who is responsible for any serious threats to Dutch people after the release of this film?
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
edited to remind peeps that Denmark and Holland are two seperate nations in Northern Europe
Now after Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been chased out of Holland and Theo Van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn were both murdered, another critical Dutch MP, by the name of Geert Wilders has taken up the cause and is heralding the immediete release of a 15 minute film called 'Fitna' which he says will compare the Quran to Adolf Hitler's 'Mein Kampf'.
The Dutch government is trying to get the film banned and Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende has made the following statement;
QUOTE(Taipei times)
Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende has warned a maverick lawmaker of the risks to Dutch national interests if he presses ahead with a film criticizing the Koran. Balkenende's appeal to Geert Wilders on Friday stopped short of demanding that he not release the film, which Wilders said was in the final stages of editing. "Already we are having to take account of serious threats to Dutch people," Balkenende said in a televised news conference. "When you see how the reactions have been at home and abroad, what the risks could be of this film, then there's one person who must answer for it, and that is Mr Wilders himself," he said.
Link.This statement by the Prime Minister of a country like Holland makes me pause for thought because its a cut and dried question of responsibility in my mind. I don't know how any one can be made responsible for the actions of other people simply because they voiced an opinion.
Questions for your consideration:
Who is responsible for any serious threats to Dutch people after the release of this film?
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
edited to remind peeps that Denmark and Holland are two seperate nations in Northern Europe
[Questions for your consideration:
Who is responsible for any serious threats to Dutch people after the release of this film?
Given the context of the question, the Islamists are responsible.
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
"Neither side backs down"?
Most of the Western Europeans are backing down, rolling over, and baring their throats. Most seem to have such a wide yellow streak down their backs that their guts are yellow too! Until they start standing up, their will be no chance for reconciling their differences because bullies (the Islamofascists in this instance) won't see any reason for doing so. Why reconcile when you're winning?
Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
Probably, but unlikely to the extent its at in Europe any time soon. If "youths" tried rioting like that here, the first time they might get the kid glove treatment they've been getting in most of Europe. The second time the rest of the citizenry would "take matters into their own hands." There wouldn't be a third time.
Y'all Danes keep it up. Look across the NordZee and back 65 years.
"Never give up..."
Who is responsible for any serious threats to Dutch people after the release of this film?
Given the context of the question, the Islamists are responsible.
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
"Neither side backs down"?
Most of the Western Europeans are backing down, rolling over, and baring their throats. Most seem to have such a wide yellow streak down their backs that their guts are yellow too! Until they start standing up, their will be no chance for reconciling their differences because bullies (the Islamofascists in this instance) won't see any reason for doing so. Why reconcile when you're winning?Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
Probably, but unlikely to the extent its at in Europe any time soon. If "youths" tried rioting like that here, the first time they might get the kid glove treatment they've been getting in most of Europe. The second time the rest of the citizenry would "take matters into their own hands." There wouldn't be a third time.
Y'all Danes keep it up. Look across the NordZee and back 65 years.
"Never give up..."
QUOTE
Who is responsible for any serious threats to Dutch people after the release of this film?
Whoever is making the threat that results in any kind of violence.
QUOTE
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
I can't add anything to what Bikerdad said.
Who quits when they're winning? And more important, who doesn't quit even when they're losing because it's seen as a religious duty?
QUOTE
Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
You mean moreso than Sept 11? The USS Cole? The several attempted attacks on the WTC?
Who is responsible for any serious threats to Dutch people after the release of this film?
That would be those making the threats.
I'm generally tolerant of religions up to the point that the followers of the religions go crazy. This is happening in the Muslim world, and until the leadership can gain control over their crazies, then I'm afraid I can't tolerate that religion. However, this is my only fear regarding the situation. The rest is caution. Some of the Muslims are crazy, and I don't know which ones until they try to lop my head off. It's like that with bears and mountain lions too. You just don't know which ones will attack, so the cautious thing to do is assume they all will.
As a result I don't care what happens in the ME and want very much to stop buying ME oil. I avoid doing business with Muslims out of caution. Every time I put gas into a vehicle I think that some percentage is going to jihadist crazies. It's disturbing.
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
Nope. Been catching up on Sleeper Cell through Netflix. It makes some very good points on what might be going on to control the crazy Muslims in the US and also gives the side of non-crazy Muslims. It's very unfortunate that there are enough violent people in that religion to taint the whole thing, but sorry. I did not make this up. It's a real part of life.
I'm in favor of laws that put fatwa-givers (the kind that calls for murder) in prison for life as potential murderers by admission and belief. Same for any Muslim preacher encouraging the murder of infidels. One strike and you're out. It's basically this:
Thou Shalt Not Murder, not even infidels. Shut your pie hole or end up in the slammer forever. Instigating murder is as bad as doing it with your own hand.
Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
It already has.
I am intolerant of intolerant religions. That, as they say, is that.
Regarding civil rights, once this line is crossed there are none. The US supports religious freedom but does not support murder. The rest of the world should do this too, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the world does.
There are always exceptions. Yep, and nobody likes that either.
A little religious test: Is it ever okay to murder anyone? If the answer is Yes, then you're Wrong. Might want to do some meditation on the idea of murder, such as who made you God?
That would be those making the threats.
I'm generally tolerant of religions up to the point that the followers of the religions go crazy. This is happening in the Muslim world, and until the leadership can gain control over their crazies, then I'm afraid I can't tolerate that religion. However, this is my only fear regarding the situation. The rest is caution. Some of the Muslims are crazy, and I don't know which ones until they try to lop my head off. It's like that with bears and mountain lions too. You just don't know which ones will attack, so the cautious thing to do is assume they all will.
As a result I don't care what happens in the ME and want very much to stop buying ME oil. I avoid doing business with Muslims out of caution. Every time I put gas into a vehicle I think that some percentage is going to jihadist crazies. It's disturbing.
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
Nope. Been catching up on Sleeper Cell through Netflix. It makes some very good points on what might be going on to control the crazy Muslims in the US and also gives the side of non-crazy Muslims. It's very unfortunate that there are enough violent people in that religion to taint the whole thing, but sorry. I did not make this up. It's a real part of life.
I'm in favor of laws that put fatwa-givers (the kind that calls for murder) in prison for life as potential murderers by admission and belief. Same for any Muslim preacher encouraging the murder of infidels. One strike and you're out. It's basically this:
Thou Shalt Not Murder, not even infidels. Shut your pie hole or end up in the slammer forever. Instigating murder is as bad as doing it with your own hand.
Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
It already has.
I am intolerant of intolerant religions. That, as they say, is that.
Regarding civil rights, once this line is crossed there are none. The US supports religious freedom but does not support murder. The rest of the world should do this too, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the world does.
There are always exceptions. Yep, and nobody likes that either.
A little religious test: Is it ever okay to murder anyone? If the answer is Yes, then you're Wrong. Might want to do some meditation on the idea of murder, such as who made you God?
Who is responsible for any serious threats to Dutch people after the release of this film?
It is obvious it would be the "threatener". Of course, non-Muslim apologists do not make the situation any easier by enabling such intolerant behavior. Too much enabling runs the risk of inciting an over-reaction on the part of the Danes at some point. What could result would be quite unfortunate.
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
The hope is that both sides will find a way to reconcile. My 'bets in Vegas' are this won't happen. I believe the Muslim population (generally speaking) already feels offended and disrespected and deserving of redress. Capitulating to these silly demands about artistic/journalistic license resolves nothing however. The capital demand of the more militant Muslim groups stops nothing short of the state's total transformation along the lines of a devout Muslim nation. Today it's cartoons tomorrow it's your most fundamental rights.
An over-simplification would compare these Muslim groups to a spoiled toddler. Might as well nip this problem in the bud now before this toddler becomes a TEENAGER. Know what I mean?
Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
Not in the foreseable future. These types of issues I believe would unite the two groups that can't seem to agree on anything these days - the repubs and dems. Any red-blooded American of any stripe can smell a rat in the cellar at which point the rat's days are probably numbered.
It is obvious it would be the "threatener". Of course, non-Muslim apologists do not make the situation any easier by enabling such intolerant behavior. Too much enabling runs the risk of inciting an over-reaction on the part of the Danes at some point. What could result would be quite unfortunate.
Can Europeans and Muslims reconcile their differences if neither side backs down?
The hope is that both sides will find a way to reconcile. My 'bets in Vegas' are this won't happen. I believe the Muslim population (generally speaking) already feels offended and disrespected and deserving of redress. Capitulating to these silly demands about artistic/journalistic license resolves nothing however. The capital demand of the more militant Muslim groups stops nothing short of the state's total transformation along the lines of a devout Muslim nation. Today it's cartoons tomorrow it's your most fundamental rights.
An over-simplification would compare these Muslim groups to a spoiled toddler. Might as well nip this problem in the bud now before this toddler becomes a TEENAGER. Know what I mean?
Will this violent cultural confrontation ever spill over into the USA?
Not in the foreseable future. These types of issues I believe would unite the two groups that can't seem to agree on anything these days - the repubs and dems. Any red-blooded American of any stripe can smell a rat in the cellar at which point the rat's days are probably numbered.
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