Today an elected Illinois delegate to the Democratic Convention was asked to step down as a delegate over a remark that she made to some neighbor children - who were black. She received a $75 disorderly conduct ticket for telling her neighbors kids to "quit playing in the trees like monkeys." The Obama campaign asked her to step down because her statement was "divisive and unacceptable."

Full Story.

Do you believe these comments were racist?

Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?

Do you believe these comments were racist?

I don't know. I don't read minds, but I do know it was, at least, highly insensitive.

Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?

Had this been a Clinton delegate, the situation would be a bit more dicey. In that it was an Obama delegate, it's probably an acceptable call.

Sounds like there were some people standing around waiting to be offended!

The incident occurred Saturday, when two children were playing in a tree next door to Ramirez-Sliwinski's house.

She said the parents were outside supervising the children, but she went over and told them to get out of the tree because she was concerned about the boys' safety and because the small magnolia tree was being damaged.

The father of one of the boys told her it was none of her business, she told the Chicago Tribune, and "I calmly said the tree is not there for them to be climbing in there like monkeys."

The mother of one boy called police.

This isn't racial. Everyone knows it. ObamaCo needs to tow the line on PC Speak. Nothing to see here, move along.

Do you believe these comments were racist?
No.

Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?
No. They're adding fuel to the hyper-PC fire starters.

I believe Ramirez-Sliwinski when she says she's called her own grandchildren monkeys. Back when I was hanging from trees and doing other dumb stuff like sliding out of the swing sweat at the apex, flying for a few seconds, I got called a monkey by my relatives. Una mona loca.

Maybe there is racist origin with Hispanics using monkey but I doubt that context persists.

Highly insensitive? I remember getting in trouble for climing in a tree "like a monkey." Those were the exact words my mother used. I've said the same thing about myself when telling stories about my childhood tree climbing. I'm more inclined to believe that the mother of the boy was highly sensitive. Monkeys climb trees. Was there a better simile available? It's a common phrase used to describe children climbing in trees.

Perhaps I don't see how this could become an issue for which Obama would have to defend himself.

The PC argument comes up over and over and over again on . The story is the same, but the cast of characters is different.

Had the kids been playing in Ramirez-Sliwinski's tree, then she would have been within her rights to ask them to get out. I have a tree in my yard, and don't want kids playing in it. My question to kids, playing in my yard is always, "isn't there some place you could play where your parents can keep an eye on you." Other people's kids are not my responsibility.

In this case, the kids were on their own property. It was not Ramirez-Sliwinski's job to look out for their safety. One often encounters problems when disciplining or attempting to discipline other people's children. She should have known better.

I doubt you are an Obama supporter, BA, so I think the campaign can safely ignore your advice.

The ticket she got was not for telling children - for whom she wasn't responsible - to get out of a tree that wasn't hers. She got the ticket for saying what she said. She was not asked to step down as a delegate because she was not responsible for the children and the tree wasn't hers... she was asked to step down because of what she said.

She should've known better than to use a common phrase used to describe children climbing trees?

I know what she was charged with. I read the link.

If she had been tending to her own business, the monkey thing would never have come up.

No one should ever get a "ticket" for saying anything in this country, unless it's a threat to life and limb, or there is a very compelling reason. What the... What about swearing? Do we now receive tickets for that as well? Who knew.

She was within her rights to say what she did, regardless of whether it was her property or not. Furthermore, if this was a residential community and the trees were on communal property, though "not hers" technically, the community could be held responsible if the children fell. Also, the community which pays for the maintenance of those trees would have to replace them if the children were climbing on them and breaking off the branches. We don't know the context, but I can tell you I've said precisely the same thing to my kids and their friends (some of whom are black *gasp*). Good grief.

I'm sure glad the Obama candidacy is post racial... sheesh.

Do you believe these comments were racist?

No. As a child, I've been called a monkey for climbing trees as well.

Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?

I suspect that Wertz's prediction that the Obama campaign is using every opportunity to quietly inject race into the campaign is coming to pass. This is absolutely a PC hit job. I hope I didn't offend any Italians with that last comment...

I agree with Mrs. P that it is incredible that someone could get a ticket in this country for saying something that did not harm anyone. Absolutely incredible.

So, if the situation was different and the tree was in her yard, then the statement would have been less insensitive?

If it wasn't her tree then I don't see where she was coming from. She didn't have any cause to get the kids to stop. In this day and age (especally with our PC society) there are just some things I would think people would no not to call Black people. Not to say that there is no context in which some things don't apply or aren't unwarranted. There are however some phrases and and words that are loaded with negative racial baggage. Was what she said racist? I can't honestly say because I wasn't there and even in the context of the story its unknown how it was said. And as any woman will tell you its not what you said , its how you said it . I don't think she should have been asked to step down. I see why the Obama camp may have asked her to though. The last thing they probably want is the Media or Hillary taking a small story like this and blowing it up way out of proportion.

Why, yes. We do!

A woman who was cited for loudly cursing at her overflowing toilet—and then at a neighbor who told her to quiet down—has been acquitted on First Amendment grounds.

District Judge Terrence Gallagher dismissed the disorderly conduct charge against Dawn Herb, 33, ruling Thursday that she was within her rights when she let loose a string of profanities Oct. 11.

Herb was cited after Patrick Gilman, a police officer who lives near Herb, called authorities to complain.

At a hearing Monday, Gilman testified that he was at home, off duty, when his 12-year-old daughter ran in and said she had heard loud curses coming from a house down the street.

Ramirez-Sliwinski should ask for her day in court. She'll probably have the charge dismissed. However I wish more kids were hanging from trees acting like monkeys instead of playing video games.

Oh, you mean like... how it has been?



The phrase is used to describe children, regardless of color, playing in trees. Context is important. Now, if the children were wrestling on the ground and this woman said, "will you tell those children to stop playing around like a couple of monkeys"... then, THEN... I could see the problem - I'd question... why monkeys? But monkeys climb trees. Children, playing in trees, look like monkeys - so the phrase goes...

Do you believe these comments were racist?

No. This is ridiculous. And being fined for disorderly conduct for verbally disciplining a couple of kids is even more ridiculous - especially considering that the remark was never intended to be racially charged. This is as bad as when people were claiming that calling someone a "fruitcake" was homophobic.

Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?

No, I don't. There was nothing "divisive and unacceptable" about Ramirez-Sliwinski's admonition. I suspect that, if she and the mother of one of the kids have "clashed before", it was over something equally trivial - perhaps there have been discipline issues with the kids in the past. It looks to me like someone jonesing for a fight.

The fact that the Obama campaign (or anyone) has made this an issue at all just heightens "racial sensitivity". I'm guessing that the overwhelming response to this story is "You have got to be kidding me!" That's just going to make the black community look hypersensitive and reactionary. The sad part is that, aside from a mother who has issues with her neighbor, it's not the black community that's reacting to the incident, it's a political campaign. The rage should be reserved for real instances of racism - God knows there's enough of those to go around. Like, how about a few words on SC State Rep. Bill Sandifer?

The reaction of the BO campaign isn't surprising, especially if they've read his first book. They are merely reacting the way they believe BO would want them to if he knew the details.

According to BO in his first book he took 2 white friends of his to an all-black party when they were in college. They stayed for awhle, chatted, danced and eventually left. One of the white friends said to BO, "ya know, now I know what you must feel like when you're one of the only black guys at an all-white party'. BO writes that he wanted to punch this guy right in the mouth. For what??

Hang on tight folks. BO's true 'colors' are being exposed. It's going to be a very bumpy ride from here on out.

I'm afraid to ask, but... what exactly does this have to do with this incident?

I'm not sure on this one.

It would take a mind reader to actually determine if the comments were racist so I think all of the indignant denials I'm seeing are a bit overwrought.

The logical answer is, how should I know?

As to the Obama camps decision, they did what they though politically expedient. In a tight race leave no "t's" uncrossed :shrug:

Edited to Add:
I mean honestly we weren't born yesterday, don't tell me you can't see how this could be taken the wrong way.

Ent just becuase the AP reported it doesn't mean it was blown out of proportion. This isn't a big story I only heard about it becuase I visit this forum.

Yes, I can't see how this could be taken the wrong way. Do monkeys not climb trees? Is this phrase not a common one used to describe children climbing trees?

Now, if someone said to a black child, "Now, you should be really good at climbing trees... just like a monkey." Now, that statement... even though the person may have been referring to children in general climbing trees like monkeys... I could understand that being taken the wrong way. But this? No. It's a rather well known phrase... "climbing a tree like a monkey."



AP reported after the Chicago Trib and AP is where many newspapers get their news. This is an incident that took place in a small town in Illinois and it's been reported in the Baltimore Sun and on FoxNEWS. But my point is that the AP story already makes it look like she made a generalized racial statement about black children - blowing it out of proportion.

Just because I understand how it could be taken the wrong way doesn't mean I should agree with the neighbor. More importantly, assuming Ramirez-Sliwinski meant no harm isn't going to send race-relations back 30 years. What are you and Obama worried about?

You may be grasping a bit. It would be more accurate to say of that second example that it's hard to see how it could be taken the "right way," it's almost certainly racist.


The actual statement in question may have been racially motivated and it may not. I'm not disputing the fact phraseology is somewhat common.

Simply claiming that it could have multiple interpretations to a reasonable black person given our nation's history.

We have to admit here that we have no conclusive evidence of the intent of the statement on either side. Correct?

Edited to reply to Lesly:
Well Obama is worried about winning an election and I'm worried that in our efforts to crush political correctness we may forget that "I don't know" is a still an option when asked a question

If this woman's comment is a real indicator of what it takes to win the presidency attempts to stifle PC is the least of your worries.

This has got to be the DUMBEST thing Obama has done. What is White people's biggest fear when it comes to race relations...

being called a racist, for something they say that has nothing to do with racism. Someone needs to call Obama and tell him Droop said "pull your head out your tail."

Politically speaking...

Obama, you have the Black vote pretty much sewn up. Maybe, her remarks were racially motivated, but given that she is supporting YOU a half BLACK man, chances are it wasn't. Now you've just scared more White people into believing that you may be a person who is super-hyper-racially-sensitive and further injected race into YOUR campaign.

Now had you laughed it off and said something like, " My mama and Grand parents use to tell me to stop monkeying around all the time too... " you would have been much smarter. Then of course... then it probably wouldn't have made news from the "pro-Obama" media... (yeah that's a joke)

Fire somebody and hire me Obama...

It's not "almost certainly racist". A person could say the exact same thing to a white child... "Now, you should be really good at climbing trees... just like a monkey," and be making reference to a very common simile about children and monkeys climbing trees. Children like to climb trees... like monkeys. Now, as I said, I can understand better this phrase being taken the wrong way, but that doesn't mean the phrase is "almost certainly racist."



Somewhat common? Somewhat? Is there some more common simile used to describe the manner in which people climb trees? I remember this phrase being used in class to help us understand what a simile was.



Conclusive evidence? And how would you go about finding this "conclusive evidence", turnea?

I think it's fair to debate the expediency of this action, droop makes a excellent point that it plays to one of the biggest fears in race debates.

I suspect Obama was simply trying to nip any possible problem in the bud and coast to victory.

I don't know whether that's smart or not, maybe he does need to hire droop...


I just calling the odds. I'm aware that the statement could be innocuous, but I think that it's extremely awkward phrasing unless one was referring to race.



I don't, though I've occasionally used it to describe myself

I don't hear it every month, that's all I meant.


Precisely.

I think he should've taken a moment to think about it. Heck I think the offended woman should've taken a moment to think about it before she called the police. I mean... she called the police because a woman used a very common simile.



And I agree... that's why I say that I would understand that better. But this situation involved the actual simile... used in the correct context.



Well, I don't hear "American as apple pie" every month either, but that doesn't make that simile any less common.

Keep on hoping HtL. This hasn't, to my knowledge, been picked up by the national news media. This story, like ghost riders, will disappear into the sky. It is the most ephemeral of many dissipating campaign episodes. Think footnote.

BTW: I nulled my vote. As I said earlier, I am not a mind reader and besides I don't give a damn one way or the other.

Do you believe these comments were racist?
No and the cop that came didn’t believe it either since she says the sanme thing to her kids. This is like the O’Reilly nonsense – PC at its very worst and just a taste of what’s to come for the Obama camp and the PC police.
Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?

Ludicrous – and there will be a backlash. Meanwhile Obama is found to have more questionable friends. Perhaps it is him we should worry about?

“Ayers, along with his fellow former Weather Underground terrorist wife, Bernardine Dohrn, are among the two most despicable people in living in America. And Obama served on a board with him. That will play well in rural Ohio--for John McCain.
If there isn't a viral video out there about all of this, it's only because someone is making it now.

Jump ahead to 2000...In addition to his professoship, Ayers is The Woods Fund board chairman, and a young state senator, who like Ayers is living in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood, is a fellow board member--that person of course is Barack Obama. Why any organization would have Ayers serving on their board (he's not chairman any more, but Ayers is still on The Woods Fund board), is astonishing to me and any other person with common sense. And who'd want to serve with him? That year, Ayers and Obama (who should've abstained) voted to invest $1 million in Woods Fund money into a firm run by a former boss of the then-state senator, Allison Davis. In a different business venture, Davis partnered with Tony Rezko.

In 2001, Ayers gave a small donation to Obama's campaign fund, $200.

That same year, ironically in comments published on September 11, 2001, Ayers had this to say about his bombing past, "I don't regret setting bombs, I feel we didn't do enough."

http://marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2008/02...rs-problem.html

ladies and gentlemen of AD. The end is nigh. The seven headed dragon is upon us. Woe to you, O Earth and sea for the Devil sends the Beast with wrath because he knows the time is short. BaphometsAdvocate completely agrees with Droop224's post.

let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the Beast for it is a human number. It's number is Two Two Four.

And... this has to do with this debate topic... how?

Please leave the guilt by association angle in the wingnut blogsphere where it belongs, Ted.

I know it's hard keeping it real when you have an opportunity to cast Obama as a radical leftist, but unless you're willing to throw senior officers from UBS, BP and Skidmore, Owings & Merrill for serving in the board of the Woods Fund under the tank along with Obama you should stick to what you do best: blowing smoke up our collective behinds about Iraq.

No, I'm sorry! I pride myself on being able to see both sides of any story, and this is GRASPING in my opinion. Come on folks, if we really want to find racist comments made by rude and unthinking citizens, they're easy to come by but this........NOPE!

I'm surprised that the Obama campaign asked the delegate to step down over this comment. Obama must rise above even responding to this type of report if he plans on being our president! These type of issues(?) don't even merit a response IMO.

Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?

Incorrect decision that will come back to bite them in the behind. The Obama campaign "decision makers" better be careful or they may all end up having to step down.

In this political climate, you'd have to be insane to want to be in politics.

I don't think she was being racist. How many people would make a racist comment about some kids in the presence of their parents? Their neighbor? I doubt that.

I also think Droop is right on target. Obama could have turned this into a positive simply by letting this thing slide.

_____________________

Is this story making anybody else remember the Howard Cosell "little monkey" incident? Another example of a silly, but probably innocent, comment blown way out of proportion.

Good point there I agree Droop, I think he overreacted to save face on that one. Hopefully he doesn't make that a habit. Personally if I had liberal politics id still be pulling for him over Hillary. Hillary says and does so many odd ball things to save face that she just confuses me altogether.

Gads, I hate to do this, but I have to defend Barack Obama here, at least a little bit. I seriously doubt that Senator Obama knew anything about this until the story hit the papers, and as a result I think laying the booting of Ramirez-Sliwinski at his doorstep is going a bit far. Still, his campaign clearly is racially hypersensitive. Seeing as how this all went down in his political backyard, where the political machine, in this instance, his campaign, is most familiar with his perspectives and all, its a fair question to ask "why are they so hypersensitive?"

Precisely! And one need look no further than BO's first book to understand why. This is not a man who wants to move the country past the racial divide of the past. He and his closest supporters believe that whites must pay for the sins of the past and he will be the one to hold them accountable.

Those who curry favor with him jumped the gun in this case. He would never have called for this delegate's removal. He must remain behind the smokescreen as much as possible.

There is room for the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons and Barack Obama's of the world. Just not in the White House.

I don't know what Barack Obama has done to be compared to the likes of Al Sharpton, could you give some examples of why he is a bigot?

Oh, please don't provide any of those examples. Let's just keep the debate on topic, shall we?

Do you believe these comments were racist?

Actually, I know this comment was racist. It's built into our language. What I believe has nothing to do with it.

It wasn't too long ago that Whites believed Blacks to be an inferior species. Some people still believe that lie. Comments like this were once slung around with abandon, and were unlike this in that the cruelty was intentional. In this case a woman just got uppity with someone else's kids and got a case of running mouth.

There are many examples of expressions in our language that originated from racism or discrimination against national groups. We don't think much about it any longer unless something like this happens or if you have the habit of reading dictionary etyomologies.

Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?

Seems about right. She got disinvited to the Denver bash for running the holler hole without engaging the brain first. The racism wasn't intentional but that's still no excuse. She might not have been aware of why the expression is racist, which might qualify for an excuse if it's true. Ignorance is just not knowing something, and if that was the case, I'm sure she understands now.

I'm waiting for someone to figure out how to work Jeremiah Wright into this thread. Seriously, can we stay on topic?

You can really tell we're in a down news cycle when stuff like this makes waves.

Do you believe these comments were racist?
Lacking sufficient context and biased with my general faith in humanity, I'm going to have to say no. As a child I had my own affinity for tree climbing and the word monkey was used repeatedly to describe my actions.

Do you think it was the correct decision for the Obama campaign to ask her to step down as a delegate?
Yes, because its prudent, albeit incredibly freaking dumb that it was even brought up as an issue. On a campaign you have protocols when stuff like this comes up, its called minimize the noise. Clinton or McCain's campaign would have reacted the exact same way if presented with this issue. This says nothing about Obama's positions on race or anything of the like. Its unfortunate that this woman has to give up her delegate spot due to the stupidity of whomever called in this complaint, but that's life. I do hope she presses a first amendment case on this to get the charge dismissed. This is utterly ridiculous.

Well... can you point to the etymology of the phrase, "climbing trees like monkeys" that shows that this phrase originated from racism or discrimination?

Or does the phrase simply describe the manner in which one happens to be climbing a tree. I'm sure one could say that a child could climb a tree like a koala, but that would be a completely different image, wouldn't it? Or climb a tree like a sloth... again, a completely different image.

The phrase describes the action and not the individual.

What you are suggesting here is that blacks own the word monkey as negative moniker. That's incorrect. The use of the phrase "like a monkey" predates English never-mind America.

Its not that Blacks own these words as negative monikers. What it is is that these words have been used in the past with so much venom and in conjunction with such brutal racist action that to use them in this day and age still brings up a almost involuntary negative reaction. What many here fail to understand is that these words aren't just words used back in the 60's or 70's. Black people to this day in many parts of society are still compared to monkey's and the such. The statement may not have been racist on its face and in context. However, the first reaction of the family was probably did she just call my kids monkeys because to be black in America and called a monkey comes with it so much negative racial baggage.

Well I suppose she could have called them Jazz Fusion Guitarists and we'd all need to wince because maybe that's racist.

Kids get called monkeys no matter their race, especially climbing children.

WHY would I ever do that? When PC guilty by “word association” is obviously rampant – as we can see here, with this stupid firing and the O’Reilly question on the word lynching – in defense of Mrs. Obama? The woman should not have been fired. This is not "bringing us together".

Why is it ok for Bush to be blasted by liberals, NYT etc.? For weeks about one speech at Bob Jones and OK for Obama to be best friends with one of the most outright bigoted racists in the US? Same for Ayres – far left terrorist who is “not sorry” for what he did even today – and an Obama buddy.

Now tell me if these men were in the same positions around McCain this would not be page one here and at the NTY and the liberal press – non stop? Tell me so I can laugh.

1) Someone needs to explain why blacks take such offense at "monkey" comments. If kids are swinging in trees, like monkeys do, then it is a perfectly descriptive comment. I have seen a number of kids behave thusly.

The city gave this woman a citation for disorderly over this? Pitiful. She should have been cited for being a delegate to a US political convention and supporting ILLEGAL immigration.

Someone needs to explain to me why the "monkey" moniker causes so much trouble.

2) They're gutless, just like HC was with Geraldine Ferraro.

I will not argue that the term "monkey" and the various terms derived from it have been used as racial slurs. But in those instances, it is reasonable to infer that the term refers to an individual.

This is different in that the simile taken as a phrase describes... not an individual, but an action.