Full Version: Societal impact of divorce-good or bad?
Picked up my newest copy of Newsweek and read an excellently written article about the divorce generation and the lasting influence of divorce on the "latchkey" kids generation. The tone of most of the article was rather somber. Friends of the newsweek writer commented about embarrassment and shame regarding their parents divorcing. A few kids rebelled, did drugs, became promiscuous, or in the case of one of the classmates in the article, became emotionally stunted as he was a de facto counselor to his grief stricken father. 
As if kids don't have enough to worry about. Divorce has been something that many members of the class have experienced themselves. There is also an interesting number of them who chose never to marry or have kids. The typical plethora of research findings and negative statistics was trotted out regarding divorce and how it makes it more likely to have it be a generational problem, not to mention doubling the rate of depression and mental illness in children. Towards the end of the article, the consensus according to the writer was that it wasn't that bad. 
As adults, these"kids" understood what their parents went through and that for the challenges that it presented, that it was the best route for parents who didn't want to just stay together "for the kids."
Questions for debate:
1.)Ignoring obvious cases of abuse and neglect, is it best to stick together "for the kids" or divorce? Which is the healthier alternative when a couple has children?
2.)Has increased divorce rates been better or worse for society?
3.)Is this phenomenon yet just another baby-boomer cultural belly-flop, due to their seemingly selfish, narcissistic, ego-inflated, "my happiness only and right now thank you" neurotic mindset?
Bonus question:
4.)Are you a better parent than your divorced parents?, did their experience influence you to "make it work" in regards to marraige and to succeed where they flopped?
As if kids don't have enough to worry about. Divorce has been something that many members of the class have experienced themselves. There is also an interesting number of them who chose never to marry or have kids. The typical plethora of research findings and negative statistics was trotted out regarding divorce and how it makes it more likely to have it be a generational problem, not to mention doubling the rate of depression and mental illness in children. Towards the end of the article, the consensus according to the writer was that it wasn't that bad. As adults, these"kids" understood what their parents went through and that for the challenges that it presented, that it was the best route for parents who didn't want to just stay together "for the kids."Questions for debate:
1.)Ignoring obvious cases of abuse and neglect, is it best to stick together "for the kids" or divorce? Which is the healthier alternative when a couple has children?
2.)Has increased divorce rates been better or worse for society?
3.)Is this phenomenon yet just another baby-boomer cultural belly-flop, due to their seemingly selfish, narcissistic, ego-inflated, "my happiness only and right now thank you" neurotic mindset?
Bonus question:
4.)Are you a better parent than your divorced parents?, did their experience influence you to "make it work" in regards to marraige and to succeed where they flopped?
Uh-oh...one of my favorite 'soap-box' topics, Nebraska29!!!
Questions for debate:
1.)Ignoring obvious cases of abuse and neglect, is it best to stick together "for the kids" or divorce? Which is the healthier alternative when a couple has children?
My answer is that it is better to stick together, but that both parties must accept that decision, and be happy about it. Staying together and being all miserable isn't really helping anyone. However, failing to live up to your commitment "to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse, until death do you part" isn't something to be take any pleasure from either. If people truly took that commitment seriously, there wouldn't be nearly the divorce rate there is now. It would be more like 5% than 50%.
As for parents with kids, divorce is ALWAYS bad for the kids. Sometimes it might be better than other alternatives, but it is still ALWAYS bad for the kids. Kids take great comfort from having a 'family', and when you get a divorce you rip that away from them..this is NEVER a good thing. Given that a parents single overriding responsibility is caring for their children, then naturally sticking together should be the healthier alternative. Might suck for one or both of the parents, but they took on that responsibility when they had the child, so they should suck it up and deal with it, and in fact should take pleasure from doing so, taking away much of the strife that caused one to think about divorce in the first place.
Here's an interesting question...given that responsibility, and all of the negative consequences on children from going through a divorce: could the children sue the parents for that? I think most divorced parents would have a difficult time showing that their divorce was better for the children, and that they therefore didn't live up to their responsibility for those children. In short, if parents had to actually justify their divorce from the perspective of the affected parties (their kids), could they really do it? I think in most cases, they'd have a hard time doing so. "I wasn't happy anymore" wouldn't cut it, I don't think---yet that is surely the single most important reason most divorces occur. Which has always led me to wonder...where in the marriage vows does one get a guarantee of future happiness? I don't see it in there...just 'for better or worse...until death do you part', not "for your personal happiness...until you decide something else'. Oh, well.... I said this is a soap box issue of mine.
)
2.)Has increased divorce rates been better or worse for society?
I struggle to see how increased divorce rates can possibly be better for society. Divorce is ALWAYS a bad outcome. There are times when it might be the best outcome available, but it always a bad outcome. No one 'wins' a divorce, most especially never the kids. Having a higher rate of bad things can't possibly be better for society.
3.)Is this phenomenon yet just another baby-boomer cultural belly-flop, due to their seemingly selfish, narcissistic, ego-inflated, "my happiness only and right now thank you" neurotic mindset?
It is a symptom of a greater issue--I don't think people have nearly the commitment to things they used to have. Marriage is just one of the things many (most) people are not committed to anymore. People didn't get divorced previously because they took the commitment of marriage more seriously...divorce simply didn't enter their minds. Therefore, when confronted with issues, they worked through them, rather than looked for ways out. What was best for the marriage took precedence of what was best for the individual. What was best for the marriage took precedence over what was best for the individual. I don't think that mindset is that common anymore.
Bonus question:
4.)Are you a better parent than your divorced parents?, did their experience influence you to "make it work" in regards to marraige and to succeed where they flopped?
Wow...tough question. Not sure on the first part. I'm around my daughter alot more, which I'm sure Freud could have a field day explaining is a reaction to my situation growing up (my Dad was always away). In that respect, I probably am. However, I never felt either parent didn't love or support me, so can't say my parents were 'bad' in any way. I do know one of my life goals was to never get divorced, surely based on my experience.
Questions for debate:
1.)Ignoring obvious cases of abuse and neglect, is it best to stick together "for the kids" or divorce? Which is the healthier alternative when a couple has children?
My answer is that it is better to stick together, but that both parties must accept that decision, and be happy about it. Staying together and being all miserable isn't really helping anyone. However, failing to live up to your commitment "to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse, until death do you part" isn't something to be take any pleasure from either. If people truly took that commitment seriously, there wouldn't be nearly the divorce rate there is now. It would be more like 5% than 50%.
As for parents with kids, divorce is ALWAYS bad for the kids. Sometimes it might be better than other alternatives, but it is still ALWAYS bad for the kids. Kids take great comfort from having a 'family', and when you get a divorce you rip that away from them..this is NEVER a good thing. Given that a parents single overriding responsibility is caring for their children, then naturally sticking together should be the healthier alternative. Might suck for one or both of the parents, but they took on that responsibility when they had the child, so they should suck it up and deal with it, and in fact should take pleasure from doing so, taking away much of the strife that caused one to think about divorce in the first place.
Here's an interesting question...given that responsibility, and all of the negative consequences on children from going through a divorce: could the children sue the parents for that? I think most divorced parents would have a difficult time showing that their divorce was better for the children, and that they therefore didn't live up to their responsibility for those children. In short, if parents had to actually justify their divorce from the perspective of the affected parties (their kids), could they really do it? I think in most cases, they'd have a hard time doing so. "I wasn't happy anymore" wouldn't cut it, I don't think---yet that is surely the single most important reason most divorces occur. Which has always led me to wonder...where in the marriage vows does one get a guarantee of future happiness? I don't see it in there...just 'for better or worse...until death do you part', not "for your personal happiness...until you decide something else'. Oh, well.... I said this is a soap box issue of mine.
)2.)Has increased divorce rates been better or worse for society?
I struggle to see how increased divorce rates can possibly be better for society. Divorce is ALWAYS a bad outcome. There are times when it might be the best outcome available, but it always a bad outcome. No one 'wins' a divorce, most especially never the kids. Having a higher rate of bad things can't possibly be better for society.
3.)Is this phenomenon yet just another baby-boomer cultural belly-flop, due to their seemingly selfish, narcissistic, ego-inflated, "my happiness only and right now thank you" neurotic mindset?
It is a symptom of a greater issue--I don't think people have nearly the commitment to things they used to have. Marriage is just one of the things many (most) people are not committed to anymore. People didn't get divorced previously because they took the commitment of marriage more seriously...divorce simply didn't enter their minds. Therefore, when confronted with issues, they worked through them, rather than looked for ways out. What was best for the marriage took precedence of what was best for the individual. What was best for the marriage took precedence over what was best for the individual. I don't think that mindset is that common anymore.
Bonus question:
4.)Are you a better parent than your divorced parents?, did their experience influence you to "make it work" in regards to marraige and to succeed where they flopped?
Wow...tough question. Not sure on the first part. I'm around my daughter alot more, which I'm sure Freud could have a field day explaining is a reaction to my situation growing up (my Dad was always away). In that respect, I probably am. However, I never felt either parent didn't love or support me, so can't say my parents were 'bad' in any way. I do know one of my life goals was to never get divorced, surely based on my experience.
1.)Ignoring obvious cases of abuse and neglect, is it best to stick together "for the kids" or divorce? Which is the healthier alternative when a couple has children?
Dang it- I had a study once, on my work computer- dealing with this issue- a few studies actually- I will try to find and post them later- I found them on pub-med, but anyway- it dealt with this- basically- a "low level" type conflict, where outright abuse and neglect are not an issue- both the parents and the children turn out happier a few years later, with a follow up after 5 years show even the adults are happier- because they worked through thier conflict to resolve the issues- and the kids learned how to deal with conflict as well. I haven't seen a single study saying divorce is good for the children, and the reverse has plenty of evidence to show that it is better to stick together "for the sake of the children"
2.)Has increased divorce rates been better or worse for society?
I would say overall, much, much worse. Part of the problem though, is the marginalizing of the father- the worst part of the equation. Men have been reduced to walking wallets- and there is a complete disconnect between a man and his "duties"- because his "duties" have been reduced to nothing more than a dollar sign. Why bond with your kids when you have no hope of seeing them, no say in thier life, and are treated as dirt simply because you are male by a run away court system that is hopelessly biased against males- and we have only seen the slightest movement in the other direction.
We now know, possibly an unfortunate way to discover this- that fathers set self esteem and discipline in children. They also set the children's "software" if you will, in how to deal with the opposite sex.
Women are very important to the care and nurturing angle (like the saying goes- seriel killers are made, not born> it is only partially true- lack of nurture by the mother is one of the single biggest indicator when profiling, and the child/infant's ability to have empathy is not developed)
But men are much more important for the "social" angle- men teach little girls self esteem, men teach little boys how to respect women, he teaches both discipline. Women are capable, of couse, of instilling these characteristics all by themselves, and have- but it is not as "natural" to come by either.
And there is also the lack of ability to resolve conflict that is missing when you have a broken family- kids simply can't learn this behavior with one parent, because part of the equation is missing.
If there is no outright abuse, but "low level" conflict- if the parents are able to work out thier conflict this kids will learn this as well.
3.)Is this phenomenon yet just another baby-boomer cultural belly-flop, due to their seemingly selfish, narcissistic, ego-inflated, "my happiness only and right now thank you" neurotic mindset?
Um, duh, of course.
Bonus question:
4.)Are you a better parent than your divorced parents?, did their experience influence you to "make it work" in regards to marraige and to succeed where they flopped?
I would say much worse off- simply because I didn't have the resources of both parents, I did not learn to engage in good relationships with compatible females. I chose my mates badly, no doubt about it, picking, not purposely, but choosing anyway- poor mates that exemplified some of the worst traits in my mother- which is about normal.
I did, however, fight harder to keep my kids than my dad did, but also- my dad had no chance whatseover to win in court, and after years of making this attempt, he was finally demoralized enough to sign adoption papers when I was twelve.
I managed to make contact with him again and bond with him when I joined the army and left my Mom's influence. It is too bad- he was a good dad, he just faced a bad system.
I believe we should eliminate child support entirely, and take the whole money motive away from divorce. And the "default" setting should go to the parent that can afford to keep the kids, instead of automatically the mom.
Hobbes- one of my goals in life, an almost over-riding one, was to never get divorced- instead, I did just that- twice. I have now been married and divorced exactly as much as my mom, and married as much as my Dad (his second wife died) - so I have repeated thier mistakes- I hope I do better for my children!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1802806...Pubmed_RVDocSum
Has a list of studies regarding the impact of divorce on children. It is always bad. There is no good impact on kids from divorce.
Even more links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
Dang it- I had a study once, on my work computer- dealing with this issue- a few studies actually- I will try to find and post them later- I found them on pub-med, but anyway- it dealt with this- basically- a "low level" type conflict, where outright abuse and neglect are not an issue- both the parents and the children turn out happier a few years later, with a follow up after 5 years show even the adults are happier- because they worked through thier conflict to resolve the issues- and the kids learned how to deal with conflict as well. I haven't seen a single study saying divorce is good for the children, and the reverse has plenty of evidence to show that it is better to stick together "for the sake of the children"
2.)Has increased divorce rates been better or worse for society?
I would say overall, much, much worse. Part of the problem though, is the marginalizing of the father- the worst part of the equation. Men have been reduced to walking wallets- and there is a complete disconnect between a man and his "duties"- because his "duties" have been reduced to nothing more than a dollar sign. Why bond with your kids when you have no hope of seeing them, no say in thier life, and are treated as dirt simply because you are male by a run away court system that is hopelessly biased against males- and we have only seen the slightest movement in the other direction.
We now know, possibly an unfortunate way to discover this- that fathers set self esteem and discipline in children. They also set the children's "software" if you will, in how to deal with the opposite sex.
Women are very important to the care and nurturing angle (like the saying goes- seriel killers are made, not born> it is only partially true- lack of nurture by the mother is one of the single biggest indicator when profiling, and the child/infant's ability to have empathy is not developed)
But men are much more important for the "social" angle- men teach little girls self esteem, men teach little boys how to respect women, he teaches both discipline. Women are capable, of couse, of instilling these characteristics all by themselves, and have- but it is not as "natural" to come by either.
And there is also the lack of ability to resolve conflict that is missing when you have a broken family- kids simply can't learn this behavior with one parent, because part of the equation is missing.
If there is no outright abuse, but "low level" conflict- if the parents are able to work out thier conflict this kids will learn this as well.
3.)Is this phenomenon yet just another baby-boomer cultural belly-flop, due to their seemingly selfish, narcissistic, ego-inflated, "my happiness only and right now thank you" neurotic mindset?
Um, duh, of course.
Bonus question:
4.)Are you a better parent than your divorced parents?, did their experience influence you to "make it work" in regards to marraige and to succeed where they flopped?
I would say much worse off- simply because I didn't have the resources of both parents, I did not learn to engage in good relationships with compatible females. I chose my mates badly, no doubt about it, picking, not purposely, but choosing anyway- poor mates that exemplified some of the worst traits in my mother- which is about normal.
I did, however, fight harder to keep my kids than my dad did, but also- my dad had no chance whatseover to win in court, and after years of making this attempt, he was finally demoralized enough to sign adoption papers when I was twelve.
I managed to make contact with him again and bond with him when I joined the army and left my Mom's influence. It is too bad- he was a good dad, he just faced a bad system.
I believe we should eliminate child support entirely, and take the whole money motive away from divorce. And the "default" setting should go to the parent that can afford to keep the kids, instead of automatically the mom.
Hobbes- one of my goals in life, an almost over-riding one, was to never get divorced- instead, I did just that- twice. I have now been married and divorced exactly as much as my mom, and married as much as my Dad (his second wife died) - so I have repeated thier mistakes- I hope I do better for my children!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1802806...Pubmed_RVDocSum
Has a list of studies regarding the impact of divorce on children. It is always bad. There is no good impact on kids from divorce.
Even more links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
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