Representatives? Isn't that kind of what a convention delegate is? So I guess the way they would tell Hillary to drop out of the race would be to not vote for her at the convention right? So, maybe she should wait until then to make a decision.


Aquilla

Yes, that certainly is one way, Aquilla - thanks for pointing out the obvious, I don't know why I didn't think of that... waiting to the convention? It's brilliant?! Oh, but wait... we were discussing whether or not that would have a negative impact should the party ask her to step out earlier than that... so, chances are we might have already been discussing that option. But thanks for reiterating it, because we certainly love your constructive input, Aquilla.

Happy to try to clarify things here, but now we're back to "the party" thing. How can "the party" ask her to step out without voting at the convention? Right now she has almost as many delegates who will vote for her as Obama has who will vote for him. It is apparent that there are quite a few members of "the party" that want her to be the nominee. Quite a few that don't either. So, what is this entity - "the party" that's going to make the determination? And, how will this entity do that?

Aquilla

Well, party... leaders... elected to be party leaders... represent party... go to candidate... ask to step out of the race. Now, stop. Done.

Just following the lead of the Obama camp (by which I mean supporters and media advocates in no way associated with the official campaign and whose comments should not to be construed as reflecting the views of Sen. Obama himself, Obama For America™, or any representatives thereof) and a few of the official campaign heads. More to the point, I was injecting gender into this. This is one of the arenas in which sexism (compounded by racial hyper-sensitivity) does figure in this campaign. That being said, the candidate himself seemed to be suggesting in his famous Philadelphia speech on race (look for it in the next edition of Essential Documents in American History) that this campaign is a sort of litmus test on racism. He didn't quite paraphrase George W. Bush - "You're either with us or you're with the racists" - but he certainly indicated that the only solution to our racial divide was the election of Barack Obama.

I must admit, though, that I wouldn't want to be the one to suggest that Obama should "step out" either - what kind of execrable racist would that make one? - so I can understand Dean trying to get "superdelegates" to force Clinton out instead. On the other hand, I don't think anyone should be asked to "step out" until there's a winning ballot at the convention in August.


I still don't see what your argument is. If she doesn't stand down when asked, she risks losing unpledged PLEO delegates. Okay. But if she does stand down when asked, then the delegates become irrelevant altogether. Sounds like a lose-lose situation by your reckoning. The only chance she would have of gaining the nomination would be to remain in the race - and take that "risk". If she just throws in the towel, it's over.

Yeah, not injecting race into this at all...



And you don't see what my argument is? You've just very clearly stated it. It's a risk, it's a possibility. It's a risky game to play. That's all I stated. Simple as that. Why does it have to be more complicated than that? She will either take that risk or she will throw in the towel. I was just pointing out the risk.

Entspeak


I know what Wertz is saying, but it doesn't stop the fact that in him saying what he is saying he insinuates if not all out state that Dean is asking for an early stoppage. He is not. It will stop when someone hits that magic number, 2000 and something.


Coerced, blackmail??? Are you serious? What are the super delegates being threatened with??

Barack Obama's ego?? HATE, HATE, HATE, HATER in the HOUSE!!! I know, how dare he step in to Hillary's guaranteed victory.



Yeah you could, like: they may be wanting to wait for what the almighty hundred million dollar Clintons will bribe them with.



Now that's what i am talking about.... let's get that race in here. Let's put it out there to "White America" that the Democratic pary is poised to put a Black man ahead of a White woman. Surely the millions of white men who have voted must have missed this essential. If she is asked to step aside it is because Obama has the trounced her.

IT... WAS... HERS... TO .... LOSE!!!

She is not an under dog. She has not been picked on. As she said during the debate "I got tons of baggage"... the media hasn't touched it... even when she was ahead and the front runner.

The party doesn't want to ask Obama to step aside, because he is winning. And it is hard to be the party of inclusion, civil rights, and equal opportunity, then ask the Black man to step aside so that the white woman, who is losing, can win the nominee. This is a democratic race for a presidential election Wertz, not "Driving Miss Daisy".

The fact that she is winning democrats doesn't matter... because he's a democrat too!!

Is she mobilizing as many young people... no. Is she getting as many independents... no. Has she gotten as many republicans... no. Is she even fundraising as good as him?? No. Hillary has done nothing to EARN the nomination thus far, but be a Clinton.



If he hits the magic number... she should drop ou for the good of the democratic party. If she hits the magic number, he should drop out for the good of the party. The super delegates should not over turn the PLEO for the good of the party.

Well, there would be no point in knowing who the "clear candidate" is if it isn't to stop the process early. If both candidates are still running, then neither candidate can begin to focus solely on McCain.

Ok, so at the end of the day it's the party bosses who decide the nominee in the Democrat Party? Primaries don't matter? Voters don't matter? And, by the way, who elected Howard Dean as a "party leader"? I bet it wasn't the people in Florida or Michigan.


Aquilla

Entspeak


I have to say I am confused.... It's like you are stating something to me in an argument for the past few posts... but I don't see how what you are saying in anyway contradicts what I am saying.

Dean is only asking for the Super delegates to get off the fence and pick a side. Nothing more, nothing less. Now from there the winner is dictated by who has the most overall delegates. This is the same way the primary ended the previous primary, and the primary before that.... and the primary before that..... and the primary before that.

In primaries before, the way they figured out who the "clear" nominee was... even prior to the convention was by who hit the magic number. This year it is going to be up to the super delegates to put someone at that magic number, but the process is still the same.

There is no way that either of them will hit the magic number even with the remaining superdelegates... there simply aren't enough of them remaining... and Florida and Michigan are still in the magic number. So, if all the remaining superdelegates choose sides, you will have a "clear leader" in the race, but nobody will be able to clinch the nomination before the convention by hitting that magic number. So, if the aim is to be able to focus on McCain prior to the convention, that means they will be asking someone to step out of the race before the convention.