You're right - that's not what I'm saying. Obama's opponents will continue to use the "Wright was a member of Obama's campaign" meme regardless of the centrality or importance of Wright's position.


And you've been observing American politics for how long? How many people still believe Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet? How many people still believe John Kerry exaggerated the injuries that got him a purple heart? For that matter, how many people still believe Barack Obama is a Muslim? A lie used to be able to travel halfway around the world while the truth was pulling its boots on. Now, with 24-hour news cycles and non-stop blogging, a lie can enter the history books before the truth's alarm clock has gone off.

Good luck with that exposure to copious amounts of the truth. I think Obama's naiveté is contagious...

" How many people still believe Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet? How many people still believe John Kerry exaggerated the injuries that got him a purple heart? For that matter, how many people still believe Barack Obama is a Muslim?"

You have a very good point here Wertz- but really, people that are stupid enough to follow the swift boat liars to the polls- where they ever going to be kerry voters? - those issues, aren't they really aimed at getting the stupid people that would believe that crap to the polls rather than convince anyone with an IQ higher than dirt that the swift liars were anything but Rove's con men?

I do think there is a difference here my friend- I believe that the Wright controversy will be used in the general election to re-galvanize the right wing voter- people that are already buying into "Obama is a Muslim" line were NEVER going to vote for Obama- they just wanted a good lie to pin on him to explain their hatred of him, and label him "unAmerican"

in the Primary- we have a whole different animal than in the general election.

Like I said- those "big lie" items, such as the Al Gore, Kerry and Obama character assasination lies were timed to hurt them in the general election- not an item that came up for contention while same-party candidates were slugging it out.

Look at GH Bush's "voo-doo economics"- GH was absolutely correct in everything he said about Reagan's economics- and even though the dems picked it up from the slugfest between Reagan and GH, it never really caught.

So, though the timing is what is off for a good "527" vote galvanzier IMHO Wertz.

Hey- you know what IS funny Wertz, NT? I had someone BOTH claim that Obama was BOTH a muslim sleeper agent AND a member of Wright's violent christian cult that is determined to start a race war.

There will always be the supporters of the "swift water liar/Obama is Muslim/Al gore invented the internet" type-morons out there guys- the timing to get those guys to the polls is very important to the strategy IMHO- NOT convincing fence sitters, at least not this early in the game.

.

And the Wright issue will not just go away will it. I still want to know how Obama could say with a straight face he sat in the church for 20 years and was unaware of the mans views. And he DID say that – didn’t he.

Add that to his economic policies and the fact that he is far left and never that I have heard reached across the isle to get anything done – yet he wants you to believe he will “change Washington” - ya sure – want to tell us how Barack?

The African Americans increase in support for Obama in NC and IN clearly indicate they think he is Undercover Brother. He could call them stinky Negroes and they would vote for him at the same rate. Where did all of those Afro Americans go that were cheering on Rev. Wright at the NAACP and National Press Club go?

Rev. Wright is there and there to stay in the national election and millions of Americans, Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike will not vote for him based on that revelation alone no more than will the Rev. Wright supporters disown Senator Obama. It simply boggles my mind how the Democratic Party and mainstream press continues to say Obama is the nominee when he and Hillary have exactly equal support in votes but Hillary can build on hers and the Afro American vote is maxed out, it is insanity.

Dig up the oldest, perhaps most cruel stereotype about Blacks. Of course, even such an august figure as Thomas Jefferson shared your racist concerns about Black body odor in his Notes on the State of Virginia.


This is inflammatory and I just wanted to quote you just in case you had the good sense, taste and manners to edit the phrase before the mods get here. We have, at least most of us, matured the past 200 years in acceptance of such notions. There are still a few who cling such stereotypical nonsense.

You are using Obama as a tool to express your own rather deep prejudices.

I was making a point about how the Afro American vote has increased even as those public displays honoring Rev. Wright filled the news. Using the word negro and stink was the point I was making that "Obama" could use and still retain AA support, they seem unshaken that he threw Rev. Wright under the bus and vote even stronger.

Jefferson is proudly acclaimed by the Democratic Party, hey I think you guys just had a dinner called Jefferson- Jackson? I think Al Sharpton calls him garndpappy doesn't he?

Perhaps the mods could edit out NAACP?

Edoted to add:When I was drafted, guess you were drafted too, right? We spent a couple weeks in the woods with blacks and whites and a black guy told me there is nothing more stinky than a white man who hasn't showered for two weeks, I laughed and told him I had been holding back my opinions of his body odors and the white stuff creeping over his skin. Guess you would have to be there to appriciate it, we smell different and in the 1700's showers were few and far between. Again, I mean no hard feelings towards African Americans but used the term only to point out how blindly they seem to support Obama following their support for Rev. Wright.

Since he has the most detailed website in this campaign of any of the three current candidates- you only have to go to Obama's website to get the info.

Isn't the first rule of holes "stop digging"?

Y'know, I thought this story would go the way of the dodo, as it should have, but there always seems to be those who just can't let it drop. Are we doomed to another distraction of "swiftboating" a candidate? You'd think we'd progressed past that infantile nonsense, but it appears not. Since McCain himself was a victim of the most heinous race-related smears, you'd think this campaign wouldn't lower itself to that level again. I did hear of a commercial the RNC wanted to run that was racially offensive, and McCain asked them not to air it, but was ignored. If the candidate can't even control his own party's actions, what does that say about his leadership skills?

This is a great point, DG. It's not McCain out in front, leading the Republican Party - it's the Republican Party, pushing him around from behind, telling him what to do. The commercial is one example of this control - the other one is how they forced McCain to kiss Bush's fanny in 2004, while McCain obviously had to hold his nose. That is the biggest reason I couldn't vote for McCain, even though I think he's a good man.

I think we are going to see "swiftboating" used as a tactic for as long as today's Rovian Republican Party as we know it today remains intact. Maybe another round of losses will force them to change. Maybe it won't.

I have nothing but the highest regard for Afro Americans, I was using a comment to describe what Obama could get away with and still retain support from the black community. You will note that I almost always use caps and words like Afro American or African American or blacks in my normal remarks. My best friend is black and my wife has negro sweat glands so leave me alone.

I'm not sure there's a universal second rule of holes, but the one I heard was "if you insist on continuing to dig, maybe you should stop and ask for direction".


Good point about being pushed from behind. Maybe because Rove was so successful in using the tactic, it can't help but continue, but wouldn't it be nice if we had a higher level of discourse? Ah, well, call me an idealist.

Edited to correct a typo - "Rove" and "tact" certainly can't be used in the same sentence!

But Obama says he will not stoop and yet there are several ads on McCain that are low blows. In the general election there will be plenty from both sides so this is a stupid thing to think that Obama's reverend will be off limit. I think the debate should be limited to "why did you stay in the church for so many years?" Because, everyone already has seen the soundbites and have a opinion on Rev. Wright but want a clear explanation of why so long if you now distance yourself.

You folks might want to stop your little pity poker party where the race card is wild long enough to actually check the truthfulness of your claims. The ad that ran in North Carolina was NOT run by the RNC. Rather it was run by the North Carolina State Republican Party. And do tell us all how running an ad linking Obama and his pastor of 20 years is "racially offensive"? Here is the ad. So, tell me, Daffy, how is that "racially offensive"? Or, are you just following the lead of so many other Obama supporters here who are going to scream RACISM any time Obama is questioned.


Aquilla

What really started this Aquilla was Zack's unfortunate use of the phrase "stinky Negro." That's a phrase I find inflammatory and highly repulsive.



Now to let Zack dig the hole a little wider and deeper.

We already have them. Dean and the “Party” have said they will aggressively push the “100 years of war” out of context lie against McCain.

You know when it starts with this crap any response that questions Obama’s associations – esp. the long ones will be just fine. And certainly the “guns and Religion” insult is fair game as well. But please don't imply the Dems and their news allies like NYT, CNN, etc. will not deserve it.

I wasn't responding to what Zack posted, that's why I didn't quote him. What I was responding to were the false claims that the RNC ran that ad - they didn't, and also questioning what it was about that ad that made it "racist". Sorry, BoF, but your side has already over-played the race card and your guy isn't even the nominee yet. If everyone who comes here and levels criticism at Obama is going to be branded a racist, then it's going to be one hell of a long hot summer and fall.

Aquilla

I am quite aware of what Linda Daves and her followers have done in North Carolina. As a matter of fact, I sent her a couple of emails telling her what I think of her.

I'm wondering where she parks her broom.

Right next to Hillary's. Three spaces behind the Mercedes Vacuum Cleaner owned by Michelle Obama. I believe it is the elite model.

Aquilla

I'm sorry, I don't see what about the 100 years comment is out of context. Obama and McCain have two different visions for Iraq. John McCain is modeling his off of Korea, and Japan. He said so himself, right after the 100 years comment. "So long as Americans aren't getting killed" and such.

Obama has a different model for the endgame, one where we'd leave behind fewer forces with the explicit purpose of counter any threats to our security... compare that to our forces in korea, who are there to ensure the security of our south korean proxy state by making sure the 39th parallel is respected by their northern neighbors.

Never mind the fact that, in 2005, McCain strongly rejected the long-term presence he now envisions, telling Chris Matthews he'd like to "bring them all home"

MATTHEWS: Would you be happy—we‘ve been there to help get them democracy started. But would you be happy with that being the home of a U.S. garrison, like Guantanamo or Germany all those years, where we have 50,000 troops permanently stationed in that country?

MCCAIN: No. I would hope that we could bring them all home. I would hope that we would probably leave some military advisers, as we have in other countries, to help them with their training and equipment and that kind of stuff.

Yeah, never mine that inexplicable contradiction. John McCain 2008 would accuse John McCain 2005 of wanting to cut and run, or hand the country over to the Iranians or some crap. The point is:

1.) Americans don't want to pay for a 100-year Japan-style commitment to Iraq, nor do their souls want to even fathom such an occupation.
2.) The fact is that Iraq isn't and will not become Germany or Japan. It's a different state and the idea that soon, americans won't be dying over there we'll be able to someday play 22nd century golf in the sunni triangle has no resemblance to the pressing realties on the ground.

The point is, John McCain wants to have a long term, nationalistic presence in a country that doesn't know nationalism the way Japan and Germany does. That's the point of the ad. I don't see how it's libelous!? The fact that lawmakers would even use the word libel to describe what's happened here is deeply disturbing. Maybe free media law classes should come with their benefits package.

No need to get so nasty (or is that just your usual tactic when one criticizes the Republican Party in any way, shape, or form?). I made an error; but it was still, after all, the Republican Party (y'know, the one John McCain represents) who ran the ad. I only mentioned it in passing as an indication of the futility of McCain's attempt to elevate discourse rather than following the rest of herd into the gutter. To his credit, I might add.

Actually McCain was not initially in support of the ad and called it a cheap shot.

Ok, I'll ask this really nicely then, again. What did you find racially offensive about that ad?


Aquilla

You peeps are falling for the liberal typical brainless, thoughtless smokescreen. This topic was about Obama not McCain. They got their marching orders from their talking point memo and here they are trying to defend the undefensible. Go to ANY blg about this and you will see the raving leftists try and cover for Obama. Hell, according to the brain stems Obama barely knows wright. Who is this Wright guy? Hey, look at McCain!!!!!

SSDD.

Just warming up here, Trumpet, kinda like an orchestra or jazz band does before the real gig starts. And, of course one has to open the ole spit valve up from time to time, just to keep the tones pure. You definitely want that if you're going to play the Obama theme song..... "I got the Rev Wright Blues" because I don't think this is going to go away any time soon. Play it in the "Key of C" for the "C"razy Un"C"le.


(Sheesh! First I organize a food fight, now I'm putting together a band. Talk about being a multi-tasker)........

Aquilla