This may seem as if I'm taking a swipe at CruisingRam, but I noticed that he started a thread in Casual Conversation about the unfortunate death of a horse at the Kentucky Derby.

Sure enough when I checked Yahoo's "Top Stories" there it was in bold print: "Filly Eight Belles breaks down after 2nd-place Derby finish."

Among the other top stories in the USA according to the Associated Press on Yahoo were the following:

"Alaska governor balances newborn's needs, official duties"

"Reports: Mariah Carey marries actor Nick Cannon"

"Mechanical squirrels, robot lizards jump into research."

Nowhere was there even a mention of the killing of Stephen Liczbinski.

Liczbinski was a 12-year veteran police officer in Philadelphia. He had recently been promoted to sergeant and would have turned 40 on Tuesday.

At least he would have if he wasn't for the fact he was shot in the abdomen by a gunman wielding an AK-47

A Philadelphia police officer was shot and killed with a military-style assault rifle late this morning when he confronted a band of robbers who had held up a Bank of America branch at a ShopRite in Port Richmond.

"Tell my wife I'll miss her," Schiller Street residents heard dying Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski say as they went to his side.

Other officers, catching up again with the robbers' stolen getaway car moments later, shot and killed one of the suspects.

Hundreds of officers were still searching darkened streets tonight for one, two or even more of the robbers. Authorities also had several people in custody and were questioning them about the robbery and killing.

His wife, Michelle, and their children - Matt, Steven and Amber - were escorted into the hospital by police officials.

In the Port Richmond area, Nancy Braun, 43, a homemaker and mother of two, had heard the gunfire that killed the officer.

She said she had heard several shots, then a neighbor's screams. She ran out of her door in her socks and saw the officer lying beside his patrol car near Schiller and Almond Streets.

A man, she said, was cradling Liczbinski in his arms while trying, with no success, to stop the blood gushing from his abdomen. Blood was also pouring from his elbow, she said.

As other neighbors also gathered around, Braun said the stricken officer looked up and around before uttering the words for his wife.

He then gurgled, she said. Blood leaked from his mouth. His face became ashen. link

It is a pretty sad commentary on the media when a horse being put down for breaking its ankles is considered more newsworthy than a cop gunned down trying to arrest some criminals.

I'm not sure there is a question to be debated, but since that is what we do here:

Is the death of police officer in the performance of their daily duties at least as "newsworthy" as the accidental death of a horse, the marriage of a celebrity or scientific research?

Is the death of police officer in the performance of their daily duties at least as "newsworthy" as the accidental death of a horse, the marriage of a celebrity or scientific research?

Well let see, who is to blame here? My wife and I were discussing just last night how we cover news distractions ad nauseum and real issues don't really get discussed.

Our topic of conversation turned to the specific example of the horrifically high suicide rate among our veterans and more specifically the veterans of the Iraq war.

What makes something newsworthy? I think it is the amount of attention people pay to a story. On teh internets it is the number of clicks generated.

The death of a police officer or soldier is a tragedy that will ripple through the lives of the friends and families of the deceased forever.

But each individual incident does not make the top of the infotainment charts.

Is the death of police officer in the performance of their daily duties at least as "newsworthy" as the accidental death of a horse, the marriage of a celebrity or scientific research?
Oh, c'mon, NT, that's hardly fair. Sure, there are a lot of other things going on in the world - not all of them make it on Heck, I haven't seen a thread about the Austrian man who kept his daughter prisoner for 24 years while he repeatedly raped her and sired 7 children with her. Nor have I seen anything about the senseless murder of an 11-year old boy in Long Beach.

A Google search of "Police officer killed" turns up 22,000+ results. So, sure, it's newsworthy. So are a lot of things. In the sporting world, the death of a horse at the Kentucky Derby is news. Hell, using your logic, no sports story is newsworthy as long as something worse is happening.

Edited to add: Mechanical squirrels - WTF?!?

We might take a step back and ask ourselves what exactly we are looking for when we look for "news." For one thing, the event must be "unusual." This is why the death of a horse during a major race is more likely to be found as a "top" news story rather than the slaying of a police officer. This in no way lessens the tragedy of the officer's murder. For another thing, people often go to the news to learn about topics that are of particular interest to them, even if these topics are not as "important" as human deaths. Otherwise, the front page of the newspaper would consist of nothing but obituaries.

You're making my point for me my dear DaffyGrl. What was once considered unusual has become so typical that unless there is some unusual about the crime to give it a "news hook" it's not considered anything more than a local news story.

It wasn't my intention to dump on animal lovers. The point is that while the death of a horse is tragic, the murder of a police officer is a tragedy. Just as the brutal slaying of a 11-year old boy going to buy donuts. So is a daughter raped by a sick joke of a father for 24 years.

I am just naive enough to think a cop being gunned down is worth a few column inches.

But apparently plain old vanilla tragedy isn't news. At least not as much as a dim bulb like Mariah Carey getting married. It's just another reason why I'm getting out of journalism. I barely recognize it anymore.

Is the death of police officer in the performance of their daily duties at least as "newsworthy" as the accidental death of a horse, the marriage of a celebrity or scientific research?

The "top stories" on My.Yahoo often are less than an hour old.

If the story is the same one that looped every half hour on CNN yesterday, the officers responded to a bank robbery at a grocery store, one of the officers was shot, one of the robbers was shot, one of the robbers fled, and the entire police force had a "most wanted" on their duty roster for the day. Yes, it was indeed newsworthy.

The Kentucky Derby is enough of a sporting event that even I watch it occasionally. When I was married to my first wife, my daughters always watched and I kept up with it. A check of historic Nielsen ratings showed that there were probably at least 13,000,000 viewers that saw the horse stumble live. That made that story "newsworthy."

(And from behind me, "Sports are different. Nobody had any money riding on the cop.")

I didn't see a mechanical squirrel on the news, but...

I did see a mechanical pair of legs pushing a grocery cart.

I saw a video of an exploding whale.

The sponsors won't really pay for 24/7 speculation on next Tuesday's primary, it only seems that way.

I drove past an accident around 12:15 this afternoon. It was on the 6:00 news that I first heard a report on the area TV. When I look at my newspaper tomorrow, I know what story will be on page 1, the price of gas at local gas stations. Obama edged Clinton by 7 votes in Guam, but that likely won't be covered at all.

It might be that when you checked; your story was either too new, or already too old to be a "top story."

Live by the sword, die by the sword. Can't say I'm upset it wasn't on TV or reported on a news website. I'm sick of honoring dead cops. Cops are no different than these bank robbers, except that cops do it on an every day basis. Sure, it's wrong to steal, but why don't people get outraged when a cop says, "No blinker! That'll be $150 bucks." "35 in a 30, $200." "You rolled that stop sign, another $150." Cops should wear ski masks. I don't weep for this man. I celebrate his death. I celebrate his widowed wife. I celebrate his father-less children. He's dead and I'm glad.

Is the death of police officer in the performance of their daily duties at least as "newsworthy" as the accidental death of a horse, the marriage of a celebrity or scientific research?

Apparetly not.


Very 'liberal' indeed.


On the facade of the Copenhagen court house, is an inscription that reads 'With law is the land built'. I don't think it takes much common sense to understand that those who maintain the law, maintain the land. Nor does it require much thought to comprehend the churlish hypocrisy of some one who might cherish the death of a police officer because in their time they have received fines for criminal driving.

Any police officer killed in the line of duty is owed a debt of gratitude and it behoves society to take care of their children an dprotect them from people who wish them ill when it happens.

How easily you are fooled. The law is an instrument of control for the wealthy powerful to oppress the poor masses.

How appropriate that this inscription was printed on a facade.

Hear, hear! My husband's father was a part-time police officer in Miami for several years. He was also an airline pilot, but a LEO in his free time. He decided to sign up for the force after coming home one day from a trip. He entered their home and a chair was broken, with a large pool of blood on the floor and a trail of blood leading out of the house. He called all of the hospitals to see if his family was there, and finally found them. In the emergency room his two year old son (my husband) was sitting on his mother's lap with a bloody towel pressed to his forehead. They had been waiting for a couple of hours, his boy had split his head open with a deep cut after falling down while jumping from chair to chair. They weren't priority, and person after person went in front of them. Then a police officer came in. He had been shot through the shoulder, and they called him in. He turned to the nurse and motioned to the little boy and said, "take the little boy first. I can wait".

After that, Mr P's dad signed on and he has some stories about inner-city Miami to make one's head curl. He was a large, Cuban man with a bad temper. He has been the only policeman standing, dragging another away while an angry group closed in on them. Incidences he had first hand knowledge of were always portrayed differently in the papers than reality. For rough instance, there was a very public outcry and accusations of police brutality in an inner-city bar after an unarmed person was shot (this wasn't his watch). The reality was, a policeman was in the bar amongst a mob of a dozen who surrounded him and were throwing glass bottles at him and screaming 'kill the pig!'.

I always take stories of police brutality with a grain of salt. Yes, there are incidences because policemen are human, but usually the press coverage isn't exactly accurate. And, to answer the topic question most police deaths are not considered newsworthy events, no. Hundreds die in the line of duty with very little coverage outside of the obituaries.

In a land without law enforcement, the biggest thugs enforce their own law. 'City of God' comes to mind. No cops there, barnaby! A paradise! Might "work" for you if you're the biggest, meanest thug around...but eventually there's always going to be somebody bigger and meaner. In fact, there are some places within the US that you could move to and be ''pig-free" if that's what you desire. Go for it! You'll recognize the places by the large quantities of bars on the windows.

I suppose you are an enligtened anarchist then? One of those people whom, through some misguided sense of your own invulnerability, having never actually experienced anarchy, craves it as a utopia where one is a law unto oneself?

Or perhaps your just be provocative?

Either way, I am a scholar of history, specifically the European middle ages and I know what society was like prior to the introduction of codified laws. If having the protection of the law is 'oppression' then I'll take oppression with a smile on my face any day.


edited to restructure a sentence and thus avoid anarchy in my grammar

People are people the world around, with the same hopes and dreams and needs, for the most part. Mechanics aren't any more intrinsically corrupt than police officers or priests or preachers. You get the same range of humanity in any proffession.

I will take law over lawlessness anyday. I have been to Mrs P's many versions of the "city of god"- and will take a new york cop over a free fire zone any day as well.

Though the US is the most dangerous place I have ever been, and the only place where I feel concerned for my safety by comparison, to, oh, Bierut in the middle of a civil war with random kidnappings- I just can't get over feeling like there was a tragedy, a horrible injustice, done to a police officer trying to protect the public.

he wasn't writing a ticket- he was trying to stop violent thugs harming innocent civilians. he gave his life with honor and dignity, and went out telling his wife how much he loved her. A valiant human being that deserves a place in the pantheon of honorable human beings.

What determines if it is "newsworthy"- that is too easy, if unfortunate NT- it is public consumption, and what the public wants to hear.

Why were the swift water liars succesful, and how could anyone be so gullible, moronic and idiotic enough to believe them?

Beause they WANTED it to be true- even if it was laughably false. I mean- how stupid do you have to be to believe that crap? How immoral and unethical an "almost" human being do you have to be to contribute to it?

I guess not so far from that dude that cried on myspace to "leave britany alone" - and got famous for crying about it all serious like on TV.

BTW NT- It is the lead story as I look towards the TV right now on CNN.

so not really buried either!

Oh, and BTW NT- Alaska is a small population state- you guys have more in Rush hour traffic in your city than we have in our whole state.

Many of us know the governer personally, especially her husband though, as he is an "Iron dog" snowmachine winner and a typical alaskan frontier male.

the governer racing to get on a plane, getting back to AK, and then having a down's syndrome baby was BIG news to us- because it is local, and personal.

Don't know why it made national news though- you guys don't know them do you?

The sad thing is that you and moif believe that those are the only two possibilities. Cops going through your wife's panty drawer or some wild band of hooligans ripping her panties off. What cops tell you they are is nothing compared to what cops really are.

Police spend most of their time protecting the assets of the rich and ensuring the public will is oppressed. George W. Bush is looting our treasury as you read this and he is protected by cops. If you want to speak out, you are silenced by cops. What about drug dealers barnaby2341, aren't drug dealers bad people? Drug dealers like August Busch Jr. or Adolph Coors? Drug dealers like R.J. Reynolds or Philip Morris of Big Tobacco? Or Viagra? Or any of the numerous pharmaceutical corporations? Not those drug dealers. They sell the drugs that give us an erection. Drugs that make us vomit into a toilet bowl or give us cancer. These are good drug dealers. You are referring to the bad drug dealers like Tyrone. He sells pot and he doesn't pay taxes on it. That's bad. We need cops to protect Philip Morris and August Busch from Tyrone. If Tyrone can make money off pot, then heck, anybody can do it. We can't have that.

The idea that cops are helpful, serving us, or protecting us would be laughable if it wasn't so sad that people like you and moif and Mrs P actually believe that nonsense.

This dead cop wasn't honorable protecting civilians with his life. He wanted to be a hero. The fact of the matter is, and this is an indisputable fact, that a bank robber cannot ever steal people's money. Our money is insured by the FDIC. He was stealing the bank's money, the rich man's money.

Barnaby:

That fascinates me. There is only one other group of people I can think of that celebrate the untimely death of people in order to promote their own political ideals and personal disdain for differences of opinion.... nevertheless....

Welcome
To
The
Club

Moif said:

That's not liberal or conservative. That's a special kind of stupid that goes beyond political affiliation and into personal indifference.

C'mon Barnaby, inquiring minds want to know. What's your beef with the cops? Too many tickets? Arrested despite a technicality? Miranda Rights read to you with an accent? If I had to guess, I'd say you didn't use your blinker, you speed, and roll stop signs. And I'll bet you treat them with the utmost respect when they pull you over.

Oh good. Whew. All this time, I was told it was religion. Now it's the law. Tomorrow it will be whatever is convenient for the majority to turn their nose down at. Just make sure next time that you're the majority.

CruisingRam said:

Until now, I didn't realize it was a guy. Holy crap. And... ewww.


Thank you for pointing that out. Maybe some people don't care that crime takes away a breadwinner from a family and a wife, but this guy was obviously cut from a different fabric than what he was sworn to protect.


What makes you turn your head from the computer, or up from the newspaper.

Apparently it seems the trend points to "shock" then "outrageous" to "political" to "victim", and if there's time left over, some half-baked community event nobody cares about. We didn't get that news story, but there was a 15 minute segment on where, near the border, illegals can buy all the supplies (with a video montage showcase of said available supplies that an illegal would possibly need) immediately after jumping the border. They interviewed the shopkeeper, who maintained he was doing nothing illegal, and then gave his frigging address and where he was located (right across from ____ IN MEXICO) ... because you know, they don't have television in Mexico, and nobody would be watching.

While the story did it's job of getting people to pay attention, the fact that people are outraged measures the success of the story instead of the story, or the followup, of the actual EVENT being reported.

They're people. Thats all I need to know. Your delusions of persecution don't convince me.


Oh I see. Rich people aren't included in your elitist concept of 'us'. They're rich, thus you deem them guilty and so they deserve to be robbed! How very helter skelter of you. Who else is guilty in your paranoid dystopia, apart from cops and rich people?

What next? The criminals are really hero's? Terrorists are really freedom fighters? Rapists are 'real men'?

My beef? Where to begin? Their arrogance, their racism, their lack of compassion, their abuses, their lies, or their hypocrisy?

They protect our children.
They protect our free speech rights.
They protect our women from that barbarian horde.
They admit when they make mistakes.
When they're off-duty, they maintain a professional image.

Of course, there is a little comic relief.
Then a little dessert for barnaby2341.
...with a cherry on top.

The most interesting part to notice is the trend in which these abuses occur. They are committed against women, children, and minorities. The weakest and politically defenseless of our society. You know, the ones they are supposed to be protecting.


No, stealing is wrong, plain and simple, but if we are going to paint a picture, let it be an accurate picture. Cops aren't defending the little guy, they defend the big guy.

My opinion of criminals, terrorists, and rapists is this;
Criminals are poor people trying to survive.
Terrorist is a term used to de-humanize an adversary. What are our brave American soldiers to these people? Heroes or Terrorists?
Rapists aren't defendable and I'm not attempting to do so. I have a question for you; can you make another argument besides the slippery slope?

Well, you're perfectly welcome to discredit that idea. Discrediting the idea would require proof, such as a singular example of a society without law enforcement that is safer than one with law enforcement. What you see in reality is a steady decline in living conditions and lifestyle for areas where there is no effective, functioning centralized law enforcement, as compared to those with effective and functioning law enforcement. You find relatively little effective law enforcement, for instance, in areas where warlords rule or in the worst inner city ghettos. What do those areas look like? Care to point to an example that fits your paradigm? That would help. Right now that "some cops are bad so they're all bad and society would be better without them" isn't supported by any salient evidence whatsoever that I am aware of in scores and scores of examples, current and historic since the birth of written record.

Link.
Oh yeah, they're all guilty, you totally proved with those eight videos that every last man and woman in a police uniform is an arrogant racist, lacking in compassion and deserving of a violent death.

edited to add:

What do you mean 'besides the slippery slope'? I haven't argued any slippery slope in this thread. I've said that without law you have anarchy. Period.

Without police, you have no law.

If you hate the police. Then change them.

Again with two-choice paradigm, I'll try to type in bold uppercase letters this time so you get the point. THESE AREN'T THE ONLY ALTERNATIVES.

The thing that keeps neighborhoods safe is not the police, it's the lack of poverty. In St. Louis city there is ENORMOUS police presence and city was the #2 Most Deadliest in the Nation. You are foolish enough to believe that More Police=Less Crime. That's not true. I will present to a simple and logical breakdown, hopefully you did well in Algebra.
Poverty=Crime
More Education=Less Poverty
Thus
More Education=Less Crime

It's not that smart people don't commit crimes, smart people have skills that can be used at a job. People with jobs have money. People with money (usually) don't steal.
More Teachers=Less Crime
More Cops=Less Teachers
Thus
More Cops=More Crime

America is supposedly the richest country on planet Earth, yet we incarcerate more people than any country in the world. Why is that? Because the rich are protecting their assets with the Hired Thugs.

True, with the birth of “wealth” came crime. There wasn’t much crime before property existed. That dates back about to the invention of agriculture. Since then, there has been crime and property, and the necessary means to hold on to one’s property. When there is no property whasoever, there is no crime and likewise no one would specifically qualify as poor. Great argument, you got me there, slick. And the main victims of crime are not nor have they generally ever been "the rich". They are the poor, usually the comparatively richer thugs stealing and hurting the poor. Places where you see the worst crimes are those where the law has broken down and rights to property in one’s possession cannot be enforced….property being just basic food for subsistence in some cases (I recommend Memoirs of a Boy Soldier to get a really good grasp of what happens in those cases…or the history of Medieval Europe as Moif mentioned, or China in the early 1900s, or life during the Russian revolution for another).

And per the "degree of poverty=degree of crime" assertion that you seem to be implying, property crime rates and victimization rates haven't been lower in the US in over thirty three years. They were of course lower back during the "fat years" of the Depression, but made an upward turn after that. Now crimes have been going down since about 1994. Good thing to hear we're getting our poverty under control.

That's not my argument, but thank you for twisting my words, framing my argument, and discarding it as rubbish in only five sentences. If there was a Straw Man Contest, you would be the winner.

You know better than to make gross generalization without some support of statistics. Crime rates and victimization rates have been on the decline, says who? In the meantime, I'll look for my own statistics.

Lower during the "fat years" of the Depression? Which years of the Depression were fat? Show me these statistics.

When I created this thread I thought---no, I knew---it would be too tempting a target for barnaby2341 not to show up in his "I love cop killers" cheerleader outfit and start shaking his pom-poms.

I will give you credit for one thing and one thing only, barnaby2341. You don't let the fact that you hold fast to a throughly vile and repulsive opinion that is almost universally reviled dissuade you in the least. You and George W. Bush should hang out.

Anyone who celebrates the women made widows and children made fatherless has some issues that go far beyond my meager abilities to analyze so I'll just let that statement go without addressing it. Frankly, further acknowledging it gives it far more legitimacy than it deserves.

This remark is interesting though:




"Criminals are poor people trying to survive." "Terrorists is a term used to de-humanize an adversary." "Rapists aren't defendable (sic) and I'm not attempting to do so."

Okay, so by that bit of perverse logic, I'm justified in robbing and torture and mutilate and kill, but as long as I keep my fly zipped, I'm just another poor slob trying to make a few bucks by sticking it to the Man and his racist, power structure. That about right?

Hedley Lamarr: Qualifications?
Gum-Chewing Cowboy: Rape, murder, arson and rape.
Hedley Lamarr: You said 'rape' twice.
Gum-Chewing Cowboy: I like rape.

~ "Blazing Saddles"

That's the funny deconstruction of your absurd statement, barnaby2341.

And here is the totally humor-free version:

Selby and Andrews entered the Hi-Fi store in Ogden just before closing time, brandishing handguns. Two employees, Stanley Walker, age 20, and Michelle Ansley, age 19, were in the store at the time and taken hostage. Selby and Andrews took the two into the basement of the store, bound them, and then began robbing the store. Later, a 16-year-old boy named Cortney Naisbitt arrived to thank Walker for allowing him to park his car in the store's parking lot as he ran an errand next door. He was also taken hostage and tied up in the basement with Walker and Ansley. Later that evening, Orren Walker, Stanley's 43-year-old father, became worried that his son had not returned home. Orren arrived at the store and was also taken hostage; at this point, Ansley began begging and crying.

After Orren was taken to the basement, Selby ordered Andrews to go out to their van and bring him back something. Andrews returned with a bottle in a brown paper bag, from which Selby poured a cup of blue liquid. Selby ordered Orren to administer the liquid to the other hostages, but he refused, and was bound, gagged and left face-down on the basement floor. Just then, Carol Naisbitt, Cortney's 52-year-old mother, entered the store looking for her son. Carol was taken to the basement, bound, and placed next to her son.

Selby and Andrews then propped each of the victims into sitting positions and forced them to drink the liquid, telling them it was vodka laced with sleeping pills. Rather, it was liquid Drāno. The moment it touched the hostages' lips, enormous blisters rose, and it began to burn their tongues and throats and peel away the flesh around their mouths. Ansley, still begging for her life, was not forced to drink the drain cleaner. Selby and Andrews tried to duct-tape the hostages' mouths shut to hold quantities of drain cleaner in and to silence their screams, but pus oozing from the blisters prevented the adhesive from sticking. Orren Walker was the last to be given the drain cleaner, but seeing what was happening to the other hostages, he allowed it to pour out of his mouth and then faked the convulsions and screams of his son and fellow hostages.

Selby became angry because the deaths were taking too long and were too loud and messy, so he shot both Carol and Cortney Naisbitt in the backs of their heads. Selby then shot at Orren Walker but missed. He then fatally shot Stan Walker before again shooting at Orren, this time grazing the back of his head.

Selby then took Ansley to the far corner of the basement, forced her at gunpoint to remove her clothes, then repeatedly and brutally raped her while Andrews watched. When he was done, he allowed her to use the bathroom while he watched, then dragged her, still naked, back to the other hostages, threw her on her face, and fatally shot her in the back of the head.

Andrews and Selby noted that Orren was still alive, so Selby mounted him, wrapped a wire around his throat, and tried to strangle him. When this failed, Selby and Andrews inserted a ballpoint pen into Orren's ear, and Selby stomped it until it punctured his eardrum, broke, and exited the side of his throat. Selby and Andrews then went upstairs, finished loading equipment into their van, and departed.

The victims were discovered almost an hour later when Orren's wife and other son came to the store looking for them. Orren's son heard noises coming from the basement and broke down the back door while Mrs. Walker called the Ogden police. Stan Walker and Ansley were already dead; Carol Naisbitt lived long enough to be loaded into an ambulance, but was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. Although Cortney was not expected to live, he did survive, albeit with severe and irreparable brain damage, and required hospitalization for 266 days before being released. Orren Walker survived, although with extensive burns to his mouth and chin, as well as the damage to his ear caused by the pen.

Andrews and Selby noted that Orren was still alive, so Selby mounted him, wrapped a wire around his throat, and tried to strangle him. When this failed, Selby and Andrews inserted a ballpoint pen into Orren's ear, and Selby stomped it until it punctured his eardrum, broke, and exited the side of his throat. Selby and Andrews then went upstairs, finished loading equipment into their van, and departed. link

Applying your "criminals are just poor people" standard to the 1974 Hi-Fi murders in Utah, the crime was not the robbery. The crime was not the seizing and tying up of hostages. The crime was not the forced administration of drain cleaner. The crime was not the terror and brutal torture of five innocent people.

The crime was not even the execution style-shootings of three people or stomping a ink pen through a man's eardrum until it pierced his throat.

The only crime here according to the high moral standards of barnaby2341 would be the rape of Michelle Ansley. Oh, those naughty boys!

What a fine humanitarian you are, barnaby2341. Your compassion simply knows no limits.

Stephen Liczbinski deserved better. So did those five people in Utah. They won't get it from you will they, barnaby2341?

Stories like this are more of a local nature. This incident is getting wide-spread coverage in Philadelphia, rightfully so. This is the third Philly officer in less than 2 years who has been gunned down by an armed hold-up man. National coverage usually kicks in when the killer is still on the loose. That may yet happen here since a third suspect has been identified and has not been caught.

As for the coward whose post is quoted above, I extend a personal invitation to you. Come to Philadelphia this week and 'celebrate' the murder of this fallen hero. Be sure to let us know who you are so we can give you a proper greeting.

NT- the news of this murder is making the main news stream as we speak- with witnesses, interviews and the whole nine.

Though not instant from the time of the crime- it is being given it's just coverage, even here in far away Anchorage, Alaska.

RIP Officer- you still died a hero, and a loving father with only his families well being and wife's love on his mind as he past away. No cursing his killers, he saved his words for his wife.

That would be a hero's death IMHO.

uhh folks... (apologies Mods but you're missing this one)... folks DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Thanks.

Barnaby said:

That was ironic, since your "cherry on top" link was the link of a large black man beating a female cop unconscious. Yeah, I can see where SHE deserved it. She had the car with the lights and the uniform, and he was a criminal... yup. The trends of abuse were apparent and just WAITING to happen. Are you for real? You just contradicted your own example!


Sorry BA.

All I was going to say was to stop speeding, and to come to a complete stop at a stop sign.. Oh, and use your blinker, Barnaby. I can't figure out why the cops don't like such a reasonable guy....

Well, for me, no, it is not. I tend to feel a lot more compassion for animals than humans anyhow, especially considering...

A horse never gave me a ticket, costing me money.
A horse never arrested anyone for doing drugs, or any other vice crimes, thus contributing to Christianic oppression.
A horse never fired tear gas into a crowd.
A horse never talks to people like a drill sergeant, simply because it got a stupid job that involves power.
A horse never violated anyone's Constitutional rights.
A horse did not shoot Sean Bell.
A horse did not beat up Rodney King.
A horse is not responsible for the numerous beatings/murders that are also not deemed newsworthy.
A horse does not have a quota as to how many people will break the law that month.
A horse has never tried to justify what it's doing by the old Naziesque excuse of followng orders.
A horse does not hide in bushes waiting to screw someone.
A horse does not apply rules selectively depending on how well you kissed its hind quarters.

I am not one to say that all cops are scum, I have known many that are great people, but... they are great people presisely BECAUSE they are willing not to do what they are told in favor of common sense.

I think all Barnaby is reall trying to say is karma is a biatch.

To Nighttimer:
You won't find any mercy from me, until they give some to us. Where was the mercy for Sean Bell? Sean Bell, whose name is only the most recent black man legally killed by our brave police officers. Sean Bell, nighttimer, droop, turnea, fill in the blank, because you might be next.

Sean Bell was gunned down and his name was systematically dragged through the mud. Systematically, being the key word. The system, which is supposed to uphold the law, did everything in its power to make sure the law was not enforced and justice was not served. Sean Bell, father, husband, murdered; where was his mercy? Where was his compassion? Not to be found. So pardon me, for being so 'vile' if I don't weep for a man who works for that very institution.

To holdingtheline:
The LAW, gives me the right to celebrate his death. It is fully legal for me to hold that opinion and express it to others. But I know that the law is nonsense. The law is merely a tool, to fool others into behaving in a manner in which the powerful want them to behave. I know that legally I hold the right to express that opinion, but I also know that the law enforcement agency doesn't give a damn about law. They make it up as they go along. And we as a pathetic country, passively accept it. We are here debating the death of a man trying to stop a robbery. Yet Bear Stearns and our government stole 30 billion dollars from the US Treasury and there wasn't a shot fired because the passive and weak American citizenry allowed it to happen because they bow to authority. That authority has been abused by our government and our law enforcement. It is our job as citizens to control our government. In case you have forgotten, this government belongs to us. Law enforcement works for us.

To azwhitewolf:
I put that video on because of its brutality. I don't condone beating women, but I don't mercy a cop when they try to take someone's freedom, someone's money, or someone's life. We don't weep for the bank robbers. We don't weep for murderers. We don't weep for the Austrian man who kept his children captive for 20+ years. We condemn them and when cops behave like them we should condemn them too. We don't give them the benefit of the doubt. We let the facts play out, but when they manipulate the facts and the system protects them then I want that same benefit too. I want to kill people and just walk away. I want to steal people's money and suffer no consequences. That sounds unreasonable for me? Then why isn't it unreasonable for them?

As far as traffic incidents go, let's analyze them:
A blinker is a device used to indicate to other drivers you are turning. When there are no drivers you don't need to use your blinker. Furthermore, even if you don't, people don't get into wrecks. We are perfectly capable of driving around and adjusting to whatever comes at us.

A stop sign regulates traffic flow. What if there is no traffic? Do I need to come to a complete stop at a stop sign if I'm the only one within sight? No, but they will wait for you to roll the stop sign because they want your money. What harm does rolling a stop sign have to society? Will we free-fall into cannabalism if we don't enforce stop signs or blinkers?

Speeding, the speed is set at a conservative level, but enforced at the officer's discretion. That discretion is determined by the amount of money they need to reach their budget. If the speed limit was so important, wouldn't it be rigidly enforced? Wouldn't someone driving 36 in a 35 be guilty of breaking the law? Wouldn't breaking the law endanger someone's life? They would have you believe that, but it doesn't. What's the harm in driving 40 in a 35, or even 45 in a 35? People do it all the time and nobody gets hurt. The statistics of the DMV or the DoT will bear out that most accidents occur during rush hour. Not at night while people are drinking, not at intersections where people are rolling stops signs, but on crowded highways.

These are all excuses to take your money. They are not reasons. How is it that they can set an annual budget for the amount of traffic incidents one year prior to when these incidents even occur? Because they are not enforcing traffic laws so much as they are meeting a sales goal. Furthermore, there are nights when you know when your local PD's lieutenant told his officers to increase the ticket volume. There are certain nights when people are pulled over in large numbers. Have you ever said to your spouse or friend, "The cops are out tonight." If so, this proves that they are out to get you, not protect you. They are robbing you and you willfully accept it. I, on the other hand, do not accept it. So when they rob us, I don't mind when they die. Because I don't weep for the bank robber either.

To Jaime:
You are a perfect example of the hypocrisy of power. I have been insulted by Baphomet's Advocate by one of him numerous one-lines. I was insulted and threatened by holdingtheline, and tacitly called a troll by yourself and azwhitewolf. You are going to continue to enforce your rules when you feel like it, but never apply them to yourself. Don't grudgingly insult me, with false statements like, "It kills me to say this." It doesn't kill you to say it, it kills you NOT to say it.

Let's get you in the Wah-mbulance since you're so offended.

You don't write what you write about killing cops and such without actually offending people. What you're writing is flame-bait. You know what you're doing and now you want to berate the operators of the site - who are more than fair - as being unreasonable because you've been insulted! HA! You're not insulted, you are reaping exactly what you hoped to sow. Strange you were insulted by my post... I don't remember naming you as the troll.

As for the topic it is a little odd that the LEO got such little coverage especially considering the weapon, the final words to the wife... it isn't strange that a destroyed horse at the Kentucky Derby got so much coverage though. The fact that what amounts to a local story got trumped by a national story isn't really that amazing. It's annoying to those of us who care more about cops than athletes but then there you have it...

I'm not offended. You're jumping to a conclusion. If I called your mother a whore it would be an insult, whether or not you are offended by it is another matter. I'm not offended by being called a coward or a troll. Hope that clears it up.

Don't pretend like you were referring to someone else as a troll. That term was intended for me.

I have cussed out and insulted many police officers right to their face. I don't back down from a confrontation, I look for it. The fact that I write this on the Internet made holdingtheline think that I was a coward spewing rhetoric behind my keyboard when that's not true. I'm not upset by it because I know how I lead my life when I step away from my keyboard.

You think I'm a troll because I'm stating these opinions solely for the purpose of enraging people when that's not the case. I know people will be upset, but I truly honestly feel this way. I don't have mercy for them. Too many times I've come face to face with a cop and would have appreciated some mercy and never got it. Why should I give it to them when they don't extend it to me? when they don't extend it to the Sean Bells?

I wasn't upset at Jaime for insulting me, I'm upset at her for enforcing the off-topic rule while bypassing the one-liner, insult, and threaten rules. It's like a mob beating me into the street and the cops giving me a jaywalking ticket. And we are not off-topic. Nighttimer created this thread and stated in a post that he knew I would respond the way I responded. He may not have created this thread because of me, but he created it with me in mind. That much he stated clearly. It went exactly where he intended it to go.

Congratulations though, two paragraphs is a record for you.