I came across pieces of this video months ago when it came out right after the inauguration and didnt think about it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51kAw4OTlA0


the lines that scare the Shiites out of me are the last ones

"I pledge to be a servant to our President... and all mankind."

as well as at least one person pledging to serve Barack Obama.

This kind of Propaganda was how it started in the 30s according to family I have in germany that lived through it.

For debate.

Is this type of propaganda appropriate?

Should the people pledge to be a servant of the administration, instead of the administration pledging to be a servant of the people?

Is this type of propaganda appropriate?

How is it propaganda when it isn't produced or disseminated by the government? At least the video isn't asking for loyalty oaths, ala Bush Administration.

Wow! That was creepy. Like one person commented about the video, “I pledge to always question authority.”

Is this type of propaganda appropriate?

I don't know the background of this video but let’s just say, hypothetically, that the Obama administration had told these actors to make this video then I would say the video is entirely inappropriate. But that is not the case, not that I know of anyway.

Is the video appropriate? That is for the eye of the beholder but I find the video disturbing as I would find it disturbing if it was made for Bush Jr., Regan, or Nixon… definitely Nixon.

Look, there are some nice things in the video but the whole theme and the pledging of service to the president is just well, again, creepy.

People are free to make these videos but it is absolutely propaganda… propaganda with a smile and happy music made by Hollywood.

Source your slander (or is it libel? I can never keep the two straight!) sir. As for me, the creepy thing about that video is the people in it. It reflects poorly on Obama in that he didn't put a stop to it, but a charitable person would claim that Obama had no idea it was being done, and by the time he found out, it was out there.

Do you seriously not remember or never were aware of the loyalty oaths etc from the GW administration?

Is this type of propaganda appropriate?

from Wikipedia.

This video does seem to be a communication aimed to influence the attitude of those who watch it in America toward voting for Obama or at least supporting him and his cause.

I'd say it's mostly appropriate except I feel sorry for people who would pledge themselves to anyone save their children and maybe their significant other. This appears to be from Harpo, Oprah's company, btw.

Should the people pledge to be a servant of the administration, instead of the administration pledging to be a servant of the people?

If they want to be sheep let them be sheep. Every administration has people who pledge themselves to the administration. I believe that Obama has pledged to serve the people but not the way some people would like.

No I guess Harpo Productions isnt an official arm of the government yet. But if Rush LImbaugh had produced a video of conservatives pledging to be a "servant to the administration" there would be a hue and cry from the left at the moment all I hear is crickets.


has anyone seen the "supporting curiculum" ( i know I spelled that wrong but it is late and I am tired ) for the presidents September 8th preK - 6th grade speech?

http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/prek-6.pdf

along with "Directed discussions" the following material is for elementary school children

I dont remember any president having a nation wide address to schoolchildren

especially one where it wasnt outlined to the schoolboard beforehand.

PreK - 6th grade? If it had been GWB we would have heard screams about jackbooted thugs indoctrinating our children instead we get crickets

At a campaign rally, Republicans recite the "Bush Pledge."

Bush-backers-only policy riles voters at RNC rallies

... creepy I am just trying to be fair here folks.

I swear to defend and fight for the Constitution not a president. It is a privilege to work for a president but a duty to defend freedom. That is what I think anyway.

Got a lot of Shiites in ya, do you?

So... compare and contrast the propaganda in 30's Germany with this video. How do they compare? Have you seen any examples of 30's Germany propaganda?

Yes, "I pledge to serve the President" is creepy, but the President nor anyone in the government asked them to say it. Personally, I don't listen much to Demi Moore anymore.

And all the "If so and so did this people's head would spin around like in the Exorcist" blather is tiresome.

Nope, never had any member of the Bush Administration ask me for a loyalty oath. I did have folks associated with the Reagan Administrations undertake such a dastardly deed, but since I was swearing to preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States, methinks that isn't exactly what you've in mind.

However, your misremembering the "loyalty oath" kerfluffle (doesn't even begin to approach the level of brouhaha) is par for the course as Guardian Angel charges.

Take a look at Cicero's links. Who is asking for what in what context?

Maybe you should look again at what I said.


people started out pledging to serve a man not the country, nor the constitution ... the man became the government. It is never ever a good thing when you mix the image of a person no matter who he/she is with that of the government as well. I expect we will start seeing the "HOPE" poster looking down at as far more often.

I dont expect you to understand. GA says black ent must say white it may be a law somewhere, I don't know.

Interesting that the fact that you are ill informed translates into a commission of slander or libel from me........spare me.

No citizen should be coerced to swear fealty or allegiance to a head of state. If individuals wish to take it upon themselves to see the man-as-government, that is to their detriment. After the last eight years, I have no doubt whatsoever that many people placed allegiance to Bush over the Constitution....we're seeing the effects of that in many of our debates here. I expect no different during the Obama Administration.

We live in a nation that cares more about celebrities than civics....why should this really surprise anyone?

Is this type of propaganda appropriate?

There is no doubt that there is a cult of personality surrounding Barack Obama. This, however, is a private matter of these "celebrities". Only three of them actually pledged themselves to Barack Obama so I think the insinuation here is a bit overstated.

Now, the Department of Education plan to get schoolchildren to "help the President" is another matter, one that was quickly changed once it was publicized...

Should the people pledge to be a servant of the administration, instead of the administration pledging to be a servant of the people?

The government is a servant of the people and it is never appropriate for anyone to think it is the other way around. People do not pledge to serve the government, nor any individual leader.

The reason why the right is seen as unstable these days is because they can't seem to keep their hands out of the crazy cookie jar.

Always trying to have it both ways.

"Well no there aren't any death panels, but there could be panels that... encourage death... see I'm reasonable!"


Says who? The people who say the government is going to kill grandma?



Credibility for Sale!

Get your credibility here!

It really doesn't. Obama is really more of a celebrity than a civil servant. His approval rating is in the tank, but the very fact that a large percentage of main stream media still supports his celebrity. The fact that he got elected has everything to do with your point. No real platform, no plan, no experience.... but a good looking man who sounds good and says the right things. He's like a Soap Opera President.

I hate to admit it... but many mornings I listen to the Rickey Smiley morning show here in Dallas in the truck on the way to work. It's usually (sorta) funny, and the guy tries to do good things for people when he can. That being said, you'd think Obama was the spawn of Jesus Christ himself. I like the show, but it's literally like Obama somehow decended from the Heavens. People still call in nearly crying about how great the man is. I'm like... what? He's great? What the heck has he done? Born black and elected? That's about it I guess...

Taking the sentiment of an obviously intelligent and very successful man in the mainstream media as an example, I'd say that anyone "pledging allegiance" to Obama like some cult leader isn't surprising.

If you're referring to me - and after a few times trying to figure out the structure of your sentences, I think you might be - this doesn't answer the question.

I mean, are you comparing it to propaganda in the very early 1930's when Hitler was working to become the leader of Germany? It seems to me that everyone uses propaganda in that way and it is a tactic not restricted to fascists. And someone pledging to serve the President is not, necessarily, something restricted to fascism. The video you posted is not fascist. It seems to me this is more fear mongering.



In the tank?

Is this type of propaganda appropriate?

It's hero worship. It's an optimism that this politician is different. I remember a lot of hero worship surrounding George W. Bush right after 9/11/2001. But heroes fall off their pedestals when they are found out to be just as human as the rest of us. When they screw up they are subject to the same scorn as any of their predecessors.

Appropriate? Depends on the setting. Fatuous? Probably. Optimistic? Definitely.

I would like to hope, though, that the pledges they have made to be kind, fair, environmentally friendly, etc. will be kept regardless of who the President is. Those pledges are the good part, especially since none of them had anything to do with nation building or fighting discretionary wars with people on the other side of the world.

Should the people pledge to be a servant of the administration, instead of the administration pledging to be a servant of the people?

No. The government is still supposed to serve the people, not the other way around. But as long as celebrities such as these are voluntarily pledging to serve, I don't think we need to worry about some government plot.

Strange with all these talking points zombies showing up at town hall meetings and making veiled threats of armed over throw of the government that anyone should dredge up this innocuous little video as threatening. Sure I thought the servant of Obama bit was a turnoff but it was simply one sore thumb in a sea of pledges that had nothing to with servitude to the president. I hardly think not flipping the bird for Obama would make much sense or has dark omens of fascism.

I'd say if you are looking for manifestations of fascism you aren't looking at the right place. But of course you are expressing a hard right republican perspective. And cherry picking this kind of stuff or just making it up is typical with that crowd.

What veiled threats are you talking of? I'm not trying to disprove you I am just not aware of what you are talking of.

There seems to be a slight confusion over that 'Propaganda' means, which is quite normal, so let me spread some information here.

The word "Propaganda" only means the spreading of information for a cause, this could be false information (lies) or true ones. Media for example telling us about the weather is propagating the information of what they think the weather will be like, this is propaganda.


What you use, and normally all of us, is Propaganda as a negative using it to spread lies, such as 'The American Government is spreading Propaganda", as in lying to the american people. I think it is important to point out what you mean by 'Propaganda' when you use the word, False Propaganda would ben beneficial here as it denotes that it is lies and not truth (the weather report is neither or, for example, as it is an attempt to spread what may be true, but could be incorrect). U.S media is famous for its False propaganda for example, saying everything from 'The U.S is the best in the world' to that 'Americans live until they are 90', but media is also a very bi-polar borderline insitution, CNN and FOX News for example are both False Propaganda for the Right Wing American government (that is, for anyone outside the U.S), and neither of them would be considered a proper media outllet like BBC for example.


What we speak of here is clearly False Propaganda, the spreading of lies, misinformation, Very Orwellian

Yes, for a first year president with such a landslide victory, Obama's approval rating is abysmal.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/a..._to_53_percent/



Consider that this man was elected without a plan, no experience, etc. He was the MTV president. Now his ratings are only barely better than Clinton's?
Really?

He has followers, but no one can really say why... except that maybe he's good looking, has a nice family, and is black.

If people are "giving oaths to the Obamanation"... I believe it. Friggin' Jim Jones Koolaid drinking if you ask me.

GuardianAngel, this link is for you: http://www.examiner.com/x-5738-Political-B...chool-addresses. This President won't be the first to address school children. Please note that the other alleged "propagandizers" were Republican Presidents as well. People have such short memories.

As for your statement that Obama's popularity is "in the tank", I just heard on MSNBC that his approval is currently at 55%, which would be a rather shallow tank.

GabrielK is right in identifying propaganda as he did in his post. There is a vast difference between what is being said in this video and other types of propaganda, especially the type that vilifies persons of a different political ideology, ethnicity, or country of origin. Aside from the foolishness of 3 people or so pledging to be Obama's servants, the overall message is positive. Would that our world today were full of such sweetness and light!

So how does this equate to fascism?

I agree with Dingo.

ZeeSaga it is obvious that you don't work for the Secret Service.

Here is what Dingo is talking "about."


http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009...-veiled-at-all/


http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ent.php?ref=fpa

I do not think people should worship Obama, but a little more understanding, especially from the right, but also the left is in order. Obama is not the country, but his policies impact the country. People should support Obama where they like his policies and disagree where they legitimately think he is wrong. One such area is the mounting deficit.

Famously, John F. Kennedy said on January 20 1961, “And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.” It appears to me that some on this page, who paint Obama as a socialist, even to use avatars with his mouth painted red are asking what the country can do to for them - mainly not tax them.

Some of the video is overboard, but other parts are somewhat in the spirit of Kennedy’s call to action. I support Obama on those things I think will be in the long term interest of this country. The spirit of hate I see is neither in our short term or long term interest. GuardianAngel, the title of your thread, “I Pledge to Fight this Fascism,” is over the top, based on irrational fear and may have behind it a deep-seated hatred for Obama, change, etc. of which you yourself are not fully aware.

Edited to add:

Here is another example of what I addressed in the two links above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GD89JJZlWI

In case you missed it: http://blog.heritage.org/2009/09/03/politi...t-of-education/



The DOE did change the guidelines. "How can I help President Obama?" is not a question I want my kids to be graded on.

Look at the video again at the end it is every one of them saying ...


I pledge to be a servant to the president and all mankind...

because I am, together we are ... the change we seek ... or something like that ...

it isnt just demi and ashton ... and that guy who looks like pauley shore on steroids...




I wasnt the one who said his numbers are in the tank ...

but considering this http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_con..._month_by_month

I quite agree... he has blown alot of political capital

Even when it is in relation to a very particular "mission" which he is assigning them, namely studying and being better students? Does context even matter to you?

How many of "them" are there? Who are they? Who produced the video? How many people does the collective "them" speak for?


Please be accurate, even if you have to go back and make a word-by-word transcription of the video. Really, “something like that”? Is this intellectual laziness?


Again, how many of "them" are there? Who are they? Who produced the video? How many people does the collective "them" speak for?

As originator of this thread, it is your responsibility to provide this information.

BTW : It does not take much effort to use the caps key.

This is precisely the kind of thing I mean.

Why on earth is the Heritage Foundation the only group with "vision" enough to catch this insidious plot?

This...is...crazy....

Why can't responsible people be better than using conspiracy theories for political gain?

Well, it worked for Van Jones.

He's done pretty well.


Aquilla

How does the question for debate relate to the video that serves as its basis?

I saw hundreds of pledges to worthy causes, and I saw ONE pledge to be "a servant to Barack Obama" (and ONE other pledge to serve BOTH Barack Obama AND mankind).

Is the message you (GuardianAngel) received from this video one indicating people ought to pledge subservience to Barack Obama????

How small are you?

You are suggesting that Jones' support of conspiracy theories has helped his political career?

That he has used them for that purpose?

The existence of this thread is frankly why I find political debate to be something I can rarely stomach any longer. And I love political debate.

The right wing of the conservative movement has quite literally gone insane. I mean that in the psychological, clinical sense. They are ready to believe any conspiracy, any whopper, any lie told about this President and his political party, and will ignore fact, reason and logic in order to subscribe to this crap.

The atmosphere has become so poisoned that credulous Republicans seem willing to accept without question any accusation made by their leaders against Obama. And the Republican leadership seems to realize this, as their whoppers are becoming more outrageous by the day.

Death panels. Accusations that health care reform would discriminate against GOP voters. Accusations of "ZOMG SOCIALIST INDOCTRINATION" at a simple "stay in school and work hard" speech to our kids, despite the fact they didn't seem to mind presidents W. Bush, H.W. Bush and Reagan all giving speeches to our kids, some of which DID, in fact, become policy speeches. And some people make a video, and this becomes, in the minds of these people, evidence of Obama's FASCISM (despite there being no evidence whatsoever that he had anything to do with the video's production) and draws yet another comparison to Hitler.

This is beyond the pale. This is complete insanity. How deep down the rabbit hole are these wingnuts going to go before they hit bottom?

There is no debate possible over this. How can you debate with people who simply have accepted a version of reality and a set of facts which are complete fiction, and are absolutely inured to proof to the contrary? Example: Bikerdad has called the fact that Bush required loyalty oaths from people to attend his rallies or speeches "slander" without any apparent investigation of their truth, which is easily found:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles...at_rnc_rallies/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Jul31.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/15/145147/184
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/641...ew_loyalty_oath
http://www.slate.com/id/2108852

Yet he had already decided that such a suggestion was a lie. Just as the original poster went so overboard that he Godwined himself over of an independent video.

And Obama over 50% has 'tanked', yet he's well over double that with which his predecessor exited the office.

Is this really what we've come to as Americans? Where one side has plunged down this rabbit hole of bitterness and resentment at having lost a couple elections that they wrap themselves in this paranoia, fear and hate rather than accept that they lost the hearts and minds of the American people?

How can we have rational debate in this environment?

I think if you want to look at numbers really in the tank, look at last January before the Inauguration, and I don't mean Obama's numbers.

Does anyone honestly think that John McCain or any other would-be candidate would have numbers above 50-55% at this time of year if he (or she) worked as hard as Barack Obama and this administration have to fix the problems before them? I don't. So I don't worry about the polls regarding the President. No one said he was going to please everyone. But he has taken proportionately far less time taking vacations than his predecessor did and is actually taking the problems of the people seriously.

In addition, I know of no other President who would make available beforehand the text of a speech he was going to give to the school children. I just wonder what about Barack Obama makes some folks so fearful, but I'm sure that's good subject matter for another thread.

For Pete's sake, he's going to tell the kids to stay in school and do their homework! Is that socialism all of a sudden?

^^^

Nice ad hominem BTW...

No I found it disturbing that people choose to pledge themselves to be a servant to the president regardless of party.

there were other things that I disagree with ... but I expected leftist drivel I did not expect to see semi-rational human beings pledging themselves to service to the president

No argument from me here, I'm simply skeptical that any such coercion has taken place in this country, yet. Furthermore, I'm not "ill informed". Please, provide links showing where the Bush Administration coerced (your choice of words) anybody to swear fealty to Bush.


Actually, I did investigate first just to be sure, although I'll admit to only reading the Slate piece and the WaPo piece. Please, prove from the links you provided that the Bush Administration had any hand in "loyalty oaths" to Bush, much less oaths of the scope offered by the celebozos in the video.

1. I agree that the final pledge is creepy as hell. But I won't say this is similar to nascent Nazi Germany.

2. Yes, this type of propaganda (if you mean the commercial as a whole) is appropriate because they are trying to influence people's opinion in a legal manner.

3. No, of course not.

"I pledge to flush only after a deuce, and not a number one." ~Jason Bateman

Precious.

Who in that video pledged themselves to be servants of the president? How many? Out of how many pledges?

What was the overall message of the video?

Oh, I know exactly what it is. I'm sure you do too. It's half due to the authoritarian mindset in these people desperate to see their chosen leaders back in charge, and half because, quite frankly, he's black and that scares the wits out of people who want to preserve white privilege.



Given the amazing anti-intellectual bent of the Republican Party of late, it actually kind of flows from their rhetoric. Academia is the largest bastion of socialism in the US, doncha know.



You prove my point. You are inured to fact. The links provide the evidence you ask for, and you simply pretend they don't, and to top it off, you shift the goalposts and suddenly demand a comparison of 'scope', subjective though that is.

Again, there can be no rational debate when people on one side simply ignore the facts and invent their own reality. Rational debate requires both sides to be rational. One side, increasingly, is not.

Considering the venom of this post I really think that you undermine your own point.

1) As a professor of network engineering myself I do not believe that "Academia is the largest bastion of socialism in the US". Are some of my colleagues off the deep end lefties...


2) I do not have ANY dislike or distain for Barack Obama because he is any other race. This arguement is both insulting and untrue.


3) Anti-Intellectual bent of the "Republican Party" ? WTF? who cares a wit about the ® party they are as miserable and corrupt as the [D] and until we get past party labels we will be easy fodder for the real problems that are coming our way.

There is more coming. Barack Obama is NOT who he claims to be ... he is as much a centrist newcomer as Van Jones is a neo green-capitalist.

If you believe this, why did you just start a whole new thread concerned with alleged labels Obama may have once identified with?

Why do you use the label "Fascist," albeit incorrectly, in constructing this thread?




Amen, brother.

Right, this is awful. Normal people pray to cardboard cutouts of the president instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxdt_f0hwUg...feature=related

FAIL

I guess anytime something as idiotic as the claims of fascism is on the begining of this thread- I find it incredulous that somehow they missed the real attempt at fascism for the 8 years of the bush administration- I mean, they had it all- corruption at every level, incompetence that has not been seen in anyone's lifetime, and real attempts at fascism, yet, they ignored it all and this is the proof we have of fascism in the Obama administration- and they buy it?

I have to go with Raptivio:

QUOTE(Raptavio)The right wing of the conservative movement has quite literally gone insane. I mean that in the psychological, clinical sense. They are ready to believe any conspiracy, any whopper, any lie told about this President and his political party, and will ignore fact, reason and logic in order to subscribe to this crap.

The atmosphere has become so poisoned that credulous Republicans seem willing to accept without question any accusation made by their leaders against Obama. And the Republican leadership seems to realize this, as their whoppers are becoming more outrageous by the day.

I think it will now be my signature- thanks Raptavio

There seems to be a tendency on this board to ignore broad psychological elements. There will be loyal fanatics and perhaps lunatics drawn to almost any prominent person.

Chuck Colson’s well known statement about his relationship to Richard Nixon comes to mind. Here is Slate’s take:


http://www.slate.com/id/77067/

People like Colson and a few of the people in the video are incapable of enjoying life without living it vicariously through someone else.

Only if what I said is factually inaccurate.



And are others off-the-deep-end righties? I know there were both at the colleges where both my parents taught.



I did not call you out by name, and I noted two, not one, primary motivations. Odd that you decided I meant you and chose one motivation over the other as having been intended in your specific direction. Especially considering that given I spoke in a generality, there are always exceptions...



Like it or not, the majority of the people on your side of this issue are self-identified Republicans and the wild accusations to which you apparently subscribe originate with lies promulgated and promoted by the Republican Party's leadership. So you may consider them miserable and corrupt, but you are dancing to their tune, friend.



So he's a liberal? Good! I'd like to see it. He's been annoyingly centrist so far and I'm tired of it. I elected him hoping for a strong progressive.

And he's not a newcomer? Please, elucidate. Show me that your assertions are grounded in fact and not paranoid fantasy. Because I've seen these accusations ad nauseam and they've yet to be supported with any fact.

Is this type of propaganda appropriate?
Propaganda is never appropriate, even in times of war. Or perhaps especially in times of war. People in the propaganda business (defining reality) tend to get wrapped up in their own fantasies and lose the objectivity and cynicism necessary to make sound decisions. You end up with "analysis" like a Friedman unit.

Should the people pledge to be a servant of the administration, instead of the administration pledging to be a servant of the people?
The people and the president should pledge allegiance to the Constitution. Not a flag, a president they think will make their wish list come true, or (speaking of indoctrination) school prayer or whatever blows their ideological skirts.

P.S. Bow before our Nubian socialist overlord! ::terrorist fist bump::

But is the video in question "propaganda"?

A bunch of celebrities excited about Obama's election got together, pledged some small sacrifices, and pledged to serve the president they supported. This was politcal advertising. There's nothing here more "fascist" or more propaganda-like than any McCain/Palin ad showing people saying they support McCain/Palin. Both are attempts to encourage people to support a particular person or policy.

Where is the "defining reality" component in this video that makes it "propaganda"? What makes it "fascist"?

I think you've hit on the crux of this debate. It all boils down to jealousy. Republicans look at the enthusiasm that Democrats have/had towards Obama, and look back at the apathy and mediocre excitement that they were able to muster for McCain......so the playbook turns to the page of labeling every action and every componenent of the Obama Administration with the key buzzwords of extremism. Buzzwords designed to sell fiction to the masses who don't or won't take the time to educate themselves.

The outrage at this video constitutes propaganda far more than the video itself. The mere definition of fascism underscores that fact.

That depends on whether there is any intent beyond capturing some people's infatuation with the newest best president evar!

To rightwingers, it is proof -- proof I say! -- that Obama and his useful idiots want to brainwash the country and take your penis gun. For some leftwingers, it's proof that there is no shortage of sheep in either party. Self described liberals would do better to make sure their heroes don't sell them out first and celebrate later.

Looms's Jesus Camp video captures actual indoctrination of children. It's disturbing in its own right, but even then I'm not sure I'd call it propaganda since every adult involved probably encourages unquestioning obedience to authority figures with whom they agree.

I can't say what the intention is with the video alone and my answer doesn't focus on GA's artifact.

So our schools are going to not only have children watch the President, but they are also going to encourage note taking and they'll want the the students to be able to answers questions about what they watched when it's over. They are also asked to ask “Why is it important that we listen to the President and other elected officials…” before the video. Looks like the schools are asking kids to pay attention and also promoting civics, good study habits, comprehension and thinking. Heaven save us from these evil doers. Seriously, what is wrong with asking the kids what they think about what the President was saying, what the President wants them to do and what new ideas they heard?

If this was a video of Sen. Lamar Alexander discussing civics and the roles the children might play in the future of the country would the same people be up in arms if these same questions followed it?? It seems to me that a lot of negative assumptions are going on here. If President Obama's talk to our kids is focused of them working hard to succeed in school, staying in school and thinking about how they will one day be the leaders of our country I think those crying conspiracy will be looking pretty silly. This especially true in my opinion when you consider that our children were addressed about the same things by several former Presidents including President Reagan. Where were the cry's of "indoctrination" against "the Gipper"?


As for the topic at hand.

Is this type of propaganda appropriate?

Of course it is. We are a country with free speech being one of our core principles. Private citizens (be they famous or not) choosing say silly things and act foolishly is protected here. When it comes to political speech propaganda and spin are so prevalent here that we are amazed when a politician actually tells us the truth (and usually see it as gaffe).


Should the people pledge to be a servant of the administration, instead of the administration pledging to be a servant of the people?

No. Many people have to swear oaths for specific jobs like the military, being a judge and even the President. They pledge to serve the Constitution, not an individual.


Edited: to change a confusing reference

Ignoring facts?

Here's the facts, which are inconvenient for you:

Republican National Committee <> Bush Administration

Florida State Senator <> Bush Administration

Endorsing for election <> "loyalty oath"

Promising to vote for <> "loyalty oath"

You wanna talk about "inventing reality", bub, just look in the mirror.