Full Version: Are the Illuminati directing world events
Hi, folks. This is the first chat room I have ever joined, being a baby boomer who was, until recently, a little afraid of using the Internet. Please pardon me if I am bringing up a VERBOTEN subject, but I have read one book and am into a second which describes a global conspiracy.
Now, is this just paranoia on a grand scale, or do you feel that such a theory is legitimate? It really doesn't seem implausable that on a planet of 6 billion plus people, some rich folks have grand designs on world domination. Please, any views? My mind is open.
Paladin Elspeth
.
Now, is this just paranoia on a grand scale, or do you feel that such a theory is legitimate? It really doesn't seem implausable that on a planet of 6 billion plus people, some rich folks have grand designs on world domination. Please, any views? My mind is open.
Paladin Elspeth
.
Welcome! 
This isn't a chat room though - those are real time. This is more like take your time, which is how I like it.
But anyhoo, I like conspiracy theories and to me they're not a forbidden subject at all. They're fun to play with and you can never prove or disprove them. But since we can only speculate and never know for sure, I think of them as mental toys, not something to take too seriously. That would change if we ever had real proof of course.
If you haven't read it yet, you'd probably enjoy The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson.
This isn't a chat room though - those are real time. This is more like take your time, which is how I like it.
But anyhoo, I like conspiracy theories and to me they're not a forbidden subject at all. They're fun to play with and you can never prove or disprove them. But since we can only speculate and never know for sure, I think of them as mental toys, not something to take too seriously. That would change if we ever had real proof of course.
If you haven't read it yet, you'd probably enjoy The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson.
I knew me and Iz would someday disagree on something. I find conspiracy theories not worthy of debate. If you argue the idea that all media is controlled by some sinister force your opponents cannot counter it, except with data from the controlled media.
I have to go with Hugo here. The various conspiracy theories out there are, at best, silly fun (like the "Illuminatus" trilogy mentioned, which is pure, outrageous fiction) and, at worst, potentially very dangerous (as with the supposed "Protocol of the Elders of Zion," which greatly added to anti-Semitism.) I have never heard of any conspiracy theory which sounded to me as if it had even a tiny bit of validity. The people who wield power almost always wield it openly. There are, of course, always secret activities in any government, but don't think theses are what I would call "conspiracies." Are the mass murders of repressive authoritarian governments "conspiracies?" Evil on a vast scale, certainly; but hardly a big secret.
To debate? Oh no! I wouldn't try to debate a conspiracy theory, any more than I'd try to debate the spooky stuff Art Bell talks about late at night. But a good conspiracy theory is worth looking into, just on the off chance this one might be the one.
Speaking of conspiracy theories, does anybody besides me think LBJ was at least in on the JFK assassination plot? He had the motive (he wanted the job so bad he could taste it), and never did have any scruples to speak of. It happened in Texas, his home state where he had all kinds of connections. He had contact with all kids of spooks (the intelligence kind that is) and probably organized crime too. Motive, means and opportunity I think. Can't prove it, but sounds plausible to me ...
Speaking of conspiracy theories, does anybody besides me think LBJ was at least in on the JFK assassination plot? He had the motive (he wanted the job so bad he could taste it), and never did have any scruples to speak of. It happened in Texas, his home state where he had all kinds of connections. He had contact with all kids of spooks (the intelligence kind that is) and probably organized crime too. Motive, means and opportunity I think. Can't prove it, but sounds plausible to me ...
QUOTE(Izdaari @ May 11 2003, 03:20 AM)
Speaking of conspiracy theories, does anybody besides me think LBJ was at least in on the JFK assassination plot? He had the motive (he wanted the job so bad he could taste it), and never did have any scruples to speak of. It happened in Texas, his home state where he had all kinds of connections. He had contact with all kids of spooks (the intelligence kind that is) and probably organized crime too. Motive, means and opportunity I think. Can't prove it, but sounds plausible to me ...
Sounds plausible to me, too. Just please don't bring up the (sometimes presented) belief that the military industrial complex wanted LBJ to take over so he could keep the war going
.It seems like a LOT of conspiracy theories center around the military holding secret activities which might lead to the fall of free society as we know it.
I always wondered why, on the film, LBJ is seen clasping his hands over his ears right before shots are heard.
I just love it when anything questionable regarding the 'American correctness of thought' occurs.
Just a few to nibble at that has been tossed in my direction because I asked unconstitutional questions of Americans.
1...Conspiracy.
2...Anti-American.
3...Un-Patriotic.
4...Hate.
4...I don't hate anyone.
3...I love my adopted country as you do yours.
2...I voted for the right to be able to ask and expect truthfull answers from those who I elected.
1...Conspiracy is as follows............
Anyone who has a problem believing that which has been on TV, government announcements, or for that matter anything they say.
Just a few to nibble at that has been tossed in my direction because I asked unconstitutional questions of Americans.
1...Conspiracy.
2...Anti-American.
3...Un-Patriotic.
4...Hate.
4...I don't hate anyone.
3...I love my adopted country as you do yours.
2...I voted for the right to be able to ask and expect truthfull answers from those who I elected.
1...Conspiracy is as follows............
Anyone who has a problem believing that which has been on TV, government announcements, or for that matter anything they say.
Welcome to the debate, Paladin. First, let me say that it's a little difficult to comment without knowing which book you've read - and which you're currently reading. Many books on Freemasonry are quite outlandish and discredit the authors as much as they illuminate various conspiracy theories. While The Illuminatus Trilogy, for example, is a fairly good read, suggesting it as a source for information about the Illuminati (which Izdaari wasn't exactly doing) is like suggesting Dune as a source for information about worms. I know Robert Anton Wilson and mean him no disrespect, but his work is entirely fanciful. For another an even better fictionalized account of conspiracies (which manages to describe, integrate, and partially debunk just about all of them), I'd recommend Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum.
To return to fact, though, and to answer your question, yes, such a theory is absolutely legitimate. Of course there are conspiracies - some more successful and more widespread than others. To take the example about which you've apparently been reading, we need to look at the historical perspective a bit. The Illuminati grew out of the European Freemasonry tradition. The Freemasons of the Eighteenth Century were essentially gentlemen's clubs where nobles could discuss religion and politics away from the eyes and ears of cardinal and king. The Bavarian Lodge, founded by Adam Weishaupt in 1776, was one of the more successful and gave rise to the Illuminati themselves. It was from this group that the French Revolution (and, some would argue, the American Revolution) arose. At the time it was one of the few places where the more liberal ideals of the Enlightenment could be discussed and, to an extent, was responsible for promulgating such radical notions as the universal rights of man.
Whether the Illuminati are still all that powerful is more debatable. Robert Welch, founder of the John Birch Society, was obsessed by the Illuminati and felt that it was, in the twentieth century, a widespread global conspiracy bent on eliminating organized religion. I doubt that the group is quite as globally organized as Mr. Welch suspected, but Freemasons are still a ubiquitous organization (all but two of our presidents have been Freemasons, for example), though how widespread their influence as conspirators is remains a matter of guesswork.
We all know that, on the local level, Masonic lodges indulge in the exploitation of their affiliation to advance careers and promote the interests of their members, whether it's receiving a lucrative building contract or a partnership in a law firm. Why should we disbelieve that when the members of such a society are multinational CEOs, senators, judges, generals, admirals, international bankers, prime ministers, and presidents that such patronage would suddenly evaporate?
There are many, many secret societies in the world, several with an agenda of global management, and most with overlapping membership - the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg Society, the Club of Rome, Skull and Bones, the Bohemian Grove, the Cambridge Apostles - and many would argue that, to at least some extent, they are successfully engaging in global management. Whether any of these organizations trace their roots (or their agendas) to older societies - the Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians, the Illuminati - is difficult to prove and largely irrelevant. What matters is their current membership and their agenda. I do not personally believe that there is one grand overriding conspiracy as some theorists would have us believe, but there are certainly a lot of conspirators looking for one.
The most compelling argument for a successful organization engaged in world management is probably the Trilateralists - though this determination is largely due to the fact that, unlike most such organizations, the Commission actually publishes reports and does not make a great secret of its membership. It's arguable that the Bilderberg Society (through which, for example, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher first met) is even more successful, but as their activities are cloaked in secret, it's a bit more difficult to prove.
Skull and Bones is possibly the most interesting to investigate at the moment, though, as that is the secret society to which George W Bush, like his father before him (and, interestingly, the leading "opposition" contender, John Kerry), belongs. As this group was founded with money from the international drug trade (during the Opium Wars), some interesting light is shed on things like George "New World Order" Bush's interesting relationship with Manuel Noriega, the interesting governorships of the two states, Texas and Florida, through which most illegal drugs enter the US, and the resurgence of opium production in post-war Afghanistan. These are the sort of speculations which can keep conspiracy theorists busy for years.
Keep reading, but keep an open mind. Way too many conspiracy theorists get a bit too hysterical and end up undermining their own arguments. For a start, I'd recommend Who's Who of the Elite: Members of the Bilderbergs, Council on Foreign Relations, & Trilateral Commission by Robert Gaylon Ross Sr., Trilateralism: the Trilateral Commission and Elite Planning for World Management edited by Holly Sklar, The Shadows of Power: The Council on Foreign Relations and the American Decline by James Perloff, Proof of the Illuminati by Seth Payson and Benedict J. Williamson, and, possibly, America's Secret Establishment by Antony C. Sutton (a history of Skull and Bones).
:::::::::::::::::::::::::
One note on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Victoria: this started out as a tract disseminated in Czarist Russia attempting to demonstrate that the Russian aristocracy had been infiltrated by members of the Illuminati. It was only later, in the Weimar Republic, that it was construed as an anti-semitic conspiracy - and some suggest that it was the Illuminati themselves, advocates of a chaos theory of history, who added this construction at a time when it could do most damage.
To return to fact, though, and to answer your question, yes, such a theory is absolutely legitimate. Of course there are conspiracies - some more successful and more widespread than others. To take the example about which you've apparently been reading, we need to look at the historical perspective a bit. The Illuminati grew out of the European Freemasonry tradition. The Freemasons of the Eighteenth Century were essentially gentlemen's clubs where nobles could discuss religion and politics away from the eyes and ears of cardinal and king. The Bavarian Lodge, founded by Adam Weishaupt in 1776, was one of the more successful and gave rise to the Illuminati themselves. It was from this group that the French Revolution (and, some would argue, the American Revolution) arose. At the time it was one of the few places where the more liberal ideals of the Enlightenment could be discussed and, to an extent, was responsible for promulgating such radical notions as the universal rights of man.
Whether the Illuminati are still all that powerful is more debatable. Robert Welch, founder of the John Birch Society, was obsessed by the Illuminati and felt that it was, in the twentieth century, a widespread global conspiracy bent on eliminating organized religion. I doubt that the group is quite as globally organized as Mr. Welch suspected, but Freemasons are still a ubiquitous organization (all but two of our presidents have been Freemasons, for example), though how widespread their influence as conspirators is remains a matter of guesswork.
We all know that, on the local level, Masonic lodges indulge in the exploitation of their affiliation to advance careers and promote the interests of their members, whether it's receiving a lucrative building contract or a partnership in a law firm. Why should we disbelieve that when the members of such a society are multinational CEOs, senators, judges, generals, admirals, international bankers, prime ministers, and presidents that such patronage would suddenly evaporate?
There are many, many secret societies in the world, several with an agenda of global management, and most with overlapping membership - the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg Society, the Club of Rome, Skull and Bones, the Bohemian Grove, the Cambridge Apostles - and many would argue that, to at least some extent, they are successfully engaging in global management. Whether any of these organizations trace their roots (or their agendas) to older societies - the Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians, the Illuminati - is difficult to prove and largely irrelevant. What matters is their current membership and their agenda. I do not personally believe that there is one grand overriding conspiracy as some theorists would have us believe, but there are certainly a lot of conspirators looking for one.
The most compelling argument for a successful organization engaged in world management is probably the Trilateralists - though this determination is largely due to the fact that, unlike most such organizations, the Commission actually publishes reports and does not make a great secret of its membership. It's arguable that the Bilderberg Society (through which, for example, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher first met) is even more successful, but as their activities are cloaked in secret, it's a bit more difficult to prove.
Skull and Bones is possibly the most interesting to investigate at the moment, though, as that is the secret society to which George W Bush, like his father before him (and, interestingly, the leading "opposition" contender, John Kerry), belongs. As this group was founded with money from the international drug trade (during the Opium Wars), some interesting light is shed on things like George "New World Order" Bush's interesting relationship with Manuel Noriega, the interesting governorships of the two states, Texas and Florida, through which most illegal drugs enter the US, and the resurgence of opium production in post-war Afghanistan. These are the sort of speculations which can keep conspiracy theorists busy for years.
Keep reading, but keep an open mind. Way too many conspiracy theorists get a bit too hysterical and end up undermining their own arguments. For a start, I'd recommend Who's Who of the Elite: Members of the Bilderbergs, Council on Foreign Relations, & Trilateral Commission by Robert Gaylon Ross Sr., Trilateralism: the Trilateral Commission and Elite Planning for World Management edited by Holly Sklar, The Shadows of Power: The Council on Foreign Relations and the American Decline by James Perloff, Proof of the Illuminati by Seth Payson and Benedict J. Williamson, and, possibly, America's Secret Establishment by Antony C. Sutton (a history of Skull and Bones).
:::::::::::::::::::::::::
One note on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Victoria: this started out as a tract disseminated in Czarist Russia attempting to demonstrate that the Russian aristocracy had been infiltrated by members of the Illuminati. It was only later, in the Weimar Republic, that it was construed as an anti-semitic conspiracy - and some suggest that it was the Illuminati themselves, advocates of a chaos theory of history, who added this construction at a time when it could do most damage.
Thank you for welcoming me, Izdaari, Wertz et al. Yes, a lot of what Wertz brought up I have already read. Unfortunately, the first book I read was by a man who was claiming that his documentation was incontrovertible, Texe Marrs, a college instructor and retired Air Force colonel. While he had some good material, I like to make up my own mind as to whether it is convincing.
The book I am now reading is Rule by Secrecy by Jim Marrs (no relation to Texe). This guy is a journalist and does less proselytizing.
Both authors state this global conspiracy is headed by old European money, i.e., the Rothschilds, and by the Rockefellers, of course. They are all up to their eyeballs in the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations. The Skull and Bones Society of Yale University is also figured in. The thinking is that the masses exist purely to serve the superior race that is preparing the way for Lucifer, the "god of light," to have his global reign. Of course, his blueblood adherents will get the goodies along the way and will be duly recognized for their efforts.
The problem is, even if I were disinclined to believe this stuff, it doesn't help when both political parties in this country are trying to be so alike.
It's like a Punch and Judy show, the Republicans being "Punch" in this particular act. Like The Who sang, "Hail to the new boss, same as the old
boss..."
This subject is germaine when you consider that a lot of extreme right-wingers here believe the UN is looking for world domination to set up the Antichrist. That's why a lot of them do not want the UN to have any sway as far as the United States and its foreign policy are considered. Instead, they are willing to buck the rest of the world sometimes and, I think, they "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel," an American camel.
There is certainly a lot of evil in this world in any case, and we seem to be only able to 'treat ' it symptomatically, if at all.
The book I am now reading is Rule by Secrecy by Jim Marrs (no relation to Texe). This guy is a journalist and does less proselytizing.
Both authors state this global conspiracy is headed by old European money, i.e., the Rothschilds, and by the Rockefellers, of course. They are all up to their eyeballs in the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations. The Skull and Bones Society of Yale University is also figured in. The thinking is that the masses exist purely to serve the superior race that is preparing the way for Lucifer, the "god of light," to have his global reign. Of course, his blueblood adherents will get the goodies along the way and will be duly recognized for their efforts.
The problem is, even if I were disinclined to believe this stuff, it doesn't help when both political parties in this country are trying to be so alike.
It's like a Punch and Judy show, the Republicans being "Punch" in this particular act. Like The Who sang, "Hail to the new boss, same as the old
boss..."
This subject is germaine when you consider that a lot of extreme right-wingers here believe the UN is looking for world domination to set up the Antichrist. That's why a lot of them do not want the UN to have any sway as far as the United States and its foreign policy are considered. Instead, they are willing to buck the rest of the world sometimes and, I think, they "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel," an American camel.
There is certainly a lot of evil in this world in any case, and we seem to be only able to 'treat ' it symptomatically, if at all.
After college, I shared a house with a bunch of folks. One of them kept talking about "The Committee" that controlled everything.
Well, all right, so this committee, it doesn't appear that it knows what it is doing. Otherwise, why does it keep screwing up?
Oh, I just didn't understand the overriding purpose of things. I still don't. So could this guy explain it to me?
Sadly, no. Then later, it turned out that he was suffering from schizophrenia made worse through drug (acid) use.
Eh, I don't care if the world is controlled by some secret society. I just wish it would get its act together. I hate incompetent secret societies
Well, all right, so this committee, it doesn't appear that it knows what it is doing. Otherwise, why does it keep screwing up?
Oh, I just didn't understand the overriding purpose of things. I still don't. So could this guy explain it to me?
Sadly, no. Then later, it turned out that he was suffering from schizophrenia made worse through drug (acid) use.
Eh, I don't care if the world is controlled by some secret society. I just wish it would get its act together. I hate incompetent secret societies
Paladin: I don't really buy into any of the pseudo-mystical and apocalyptic nonsense of many conspiracy theorists. Indeed, many of the quasi-religious trappings of these groups themselves is downright silly (like all the misinformed Egyptology of the Freemasons, based on very limited eighteenth century notions of Egypt and extremely inept Biblical exegeses). To the extent that there are global conspiracies, they are about two things and two things only: money and power.
Author/Musician: Exactly. This is the problem with most of those engaged in global management. They are, simply put, bad managers. One might worry a bit more about such conspirators were they not so damned inept.
Author/Musician: Exactly. This is the problem with most of those engaged in global management. They are, simply put, bad managers. One might worry a bit more about such conspirators were they not so damned inept.
QUOTE(Wertz @ May 11 2003, 01:18 AM)
There are many, many secret societies in the world, several with an agenda of global management, and most with overlapping membership - the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg Society, the Club of Rome, Skull and Bones, the Bohemian Grove, the Cambridge Apostles
Secret? How can an organization/club be secret if we know about it and who their members are?
There are websites listing members:
http://www.freedomdomain.com/skullbones.html
http://www.trilateral.org/
http://www.cfr.org/about/board.php
QUOTE
It all began at Yale. In 1832, General William Huntington Russell and Alphonso Taft put together a super secret society for the elite children of the Anglo-American Wall Street banking establishment. William Huntington Russell's step-brother Samuel Russell ran "Russell & Co.", the world's largest OPIUM smuggling operation in the world at the time. Alphonso Taft is the Grandfather of our ex-president Howard Taft, the creator of the Forerunner to the United Nations.
Only 15 seniors are picked each year by the former graduating class. They are required as a part of their initiation ceremony to lie naked in a coffin and recite their sexual history. This method allows other members to control the individual by threatening to reveal their innermost secrets if they do not "go-along".
Only 15 seniors are picked each year by the former graduating class. They are required as a part of their initiation ceremony to lie naked in a coffin and recite their sexual history. This method allows other members to control the individual by threatening to reveal their innermost secrets if they do not "go-along".
I can see it now. "G.W., if you don't invade country A, I am going on 60 minutes and tell them you slept with (insert a name here).
I'm not sure we should be discussing this... not here at least.
They might be listening.
Seriously though, I don't doubt that there are conspiracies that occur and that these "secret" organizations play pivotal roles in some of the more complex ones. Global conspiracies the scale of, say, a New World Order I am more skeptical of. I don't think there are coordinated plans throughout the glob to pull everybody under some kind of global rule. I just don't think they could pull it off, no matter how intricate the plotting.
If there were seriously that many people all in pursuit of such unprecedented power, who would be satisfied taking the passenger to the designated chief? Like the conspiracy proposed regarding LBJ there would simply be people undermining the authority of those above them, and thus undermining the society and conspiracies themselves.
Small scale conspiracies -- some that may be enacted globally -- are, I feel, plausible. The whole bit with the Opium Wars and nepotism certainly make sense and are in some cases self evident. Again though, I wouldn't worry too much about those large scale global conspiracies like the NWO and such.
They might be listening.
Seriously though, I don't doubt that there are conspiracies that occur and that these "secret" organizations play pivotal roles in some of the more complex ones. Global conspiracies the scale of, say, a New World Order I am more skeptical of. I don't think there are coordinated plans throughout the glob to pull everybody under some kind of global rule. I just don't think they could pull it off, no matter how intricate the plotting.
If there were seriously that many people all in pursuit of such unprecedented power, who would be satisfied taking the passenger to the designated chief? Like the conspiracy proposed regarding LBJ there would simply be people undermining the authority of those above them, and thus undermining the society and conspiracies themselves.
Small scale conspiracies -- some that may be enacted globally -- are, I feel, plausible. The whole bit with the Opium Wars and nepotism certainly make sense and are in some cases self evident. Again though, I wouldn't worry too much about those large scale global conspiracies like the NWO and such.
Elspeth.
I really wish I knew.
I really wish what I hear from Shrub and his mates is not conspiricy material.
Tell us the truth and I reckon we can handle it.
Alan
I really wish I knew.
I really wish what I hear from Shrub and his mates is not conspiricy material.
Tell us the truth and I reckon we can handle it.
Alan
QUOTE(Wertz @ May 10 2003, 10:18 PM)
.....is like suggesting Dune as a source for information about worms.
lol
I'm gonna have to remember that oneQUOTE
This subject is germaine when you consider that a lot of extreme right-wingers here believe the UN is looking for world domination to set up the Antichrist.
I hope your kidding, and that I missed the joke. Granted, it's Monday morning and I'm only working on my first cup of coffee...so I'm not all together with it.
If you are being serious, I'd say someone was reading too much "Left Behind".
Welcome to the forums btw
--cheers
While I don't think that Poppy Jr. (Poppycock?) the Skull and Bonesman is the 
incarnate, he and his buddy Cheney could do enough damage to make the distinction moot.
My dad was a Shriner. I am certain he would not have approved and supported the idea of an organization taking over the world. So on an individual level the Freemasons aren't out to take over (Hope not--my first husband is a Mason!).
But obviously, networking on a grand scale with lots of money involved will get you places you might not ought to be. Poppycock has been there, done that, and ended up on top of the heap, infortunately.
To him, it isn't even a matter of telling the truth anymore. When he flubs (like at the news conference shortly after he became President when he actually called the economic situation we're in a "recession" and the whole press said "Huh?"), it gets interpreted away and buried by his staff and by Daddy's friends who have pull with the media moguls.
Yes, I do believe in conspiracies, large ones. But like Author/Musician, I don't think they have things all together yet. The human race, God bless us, is an unruly bunch. But these guys are trying, I'm certain.
Digital Patriot: I was referring to such groups as the Michigan Militia, and I am sure there are other groups in other states. And I have a hard time with LEFT BEHIND--didn't manage to read it once. But I did watch "Colossis: The Forbin Project," and I did read 1984. No, I am not waiting with other folks for the sky to open up and be teleported to wherever and have the world just go to hell. That has been believed for many centuries, but I trust I'll still have to do the dirty dishes in the sink tomorrow.)
Warm regards,
Elspeth
incarnate, he and his buddy Cheney could do enough damage to make the distinction moot. My dad was a Shriner. I am certain he would not have approved and supported the idea of an organization taking over the world. So on an individual level the Freemasons aren't out to take over (Hope not--my first husband is a Mason!).
But obviously, networking on a grand scale with lots of money involved will get you places you might not ought to be. Poppycock has been there, done that, and ended up on top of the heap, infortunately.
To him, it isn't even a matter of telling the truth anymore. When he flubs (like at the news conference shortly after he became President when he actually called the economic situation we're in a "recession" and the whole press said "Huh?"), it gets interpreted away and buried by his staff and by Daddy's friends who have pull with the media moguls.
Yes, I do believe in conspiracies, large ones. But like Author/Musician, I don't think they have things all together yet. The human race, God bless us, is an unruly bunch. But these guys are trying, I'm certain.
Digital Patriot: I was referring to such groups as the Michigan Militia, and I am sure there are other groups in other states. And I have a hard time with LEFT BEHIND--didn't manage to read it once. But I did watch "Colossis: The Forbin Project," and I did read 1984. No, I am not waiting with other folks for the sky to open up and be teleported to wherever and have the world just go to hell. That has been believed for many centuries, but I trust I'll still have to do the dirty dishes in the sink tomorrow.)
Warm regards,
Elspeth
(Sorry for two postings in a row; I am still mystified that so much can be done. All the bells and whistles are a little daunting at first. Thanks for the gentle reminder, Jaime. And I love my country, too!)
And I love my country, too!)
Reminder to everyone - please avoid posting two posts in row. If you were the last person to post something and have something to add, you merely need to go back and edit your post. If 24 hours have passed, the edit window closes, so feel free to start another post. 
Carry on theorerists*! 
By the way, did I happen to mention I love this country?
(am I over doing it on the emoticons? 
)
*I have no idea how to spell that and neither does the spellchecker.
Carry on theorerists*!
By the way, did I happen to mention I love this country?
(am I over doing it on the emoticons? )*I have no idea how to spell that and neither does the spellchecker.
QUOTE(Jaime @ May 12 2003, 06:25 PM)
Reminder to everyone - please avoid posting two posts in row. If you were the last person to post something and have something to add, you merely need to go back and edit your post. If 24 hours have passed, the edit window closes, so feel free to start another post.
Carry on theorerists*!
By the way, did I happen to mention I love this country? (am I over doing it on the emoticons? )
*I have no idea how to spell that and neither does the spellchecker.
Carry on theorerists*!
By the way, did I happen to mention I love this country?
(am I over doing it on the emoticons? )*I have no idea how to spell that and neither does the spellchecker.
Nah, you're not overdoing it on the emoticons, but methinks you really should provide a Maple Leaf, Union Jack and Aussie flag for our comrades over the border and beyond the waves.
QUOTE
Nah, you're not overdoing it on the emoticons, but methinks you really should provide a Maple Leaf, Union Jack and Aussie flag for our comrades over the border and beyond the waves.
Thanks for those methinks Biker, but methinks I might be the only Aussie prattling on AD
Methinks.........
Am I going ballistic on the methinks?..........
Regards.....Alan
I may not be an expert on the human condition, but the idea that a group of people such as the Illuminati could exist for more than a few months is mind numbing.
Maybe back in the day when the European Monarchies were run by a few families, but now? Who has the power to keep the group on task? Control the media? Or to control the runamucks among them? Wait, maybe THAT is the how and why of JFK's demise.
And I know the answer to the question about LBJ's ears. Think about how the Jackrabbit controls his body temperature. LBJ was in a moving vehicle, it was not a warm day, and he was cold. Ears that large are sure to have a serious cooling effect on the rest of the body.
Seriously, I have no fear of such groups if they even exist. It would be a very little tail on a very big dog. Likewise our own extremists on the left and right. Based on the standard bell curve, they are a very small minority, and it takes a lot to overcome the inertia of the majority. That is a good thing when dealing with people like Rush, Jesse, Al, and all the other self appointed activists/pundits.
The big mouths do not speak for the majority, they just get more air time.
Maybe back in the day when the European Monarchies were run by a few families, but now? Who has the power to keep the group on task? Control the media? Or to control the runamucks among them? Wait, maybe THAT is the how and why of JFK's demise.
And I know the answer to the question about LBJ's ears. Think about how the Jackrabbit controls his body temperature. LBJ was in a moving vehicle, it was not a warm day, and he was cold. Ears that large are sure to have a serious cooling effect on the rest of the body.
Seriously, I have no fear of such groups if they even exist. It would be a very little tail on a very big dog. Likewise our own extremists on the left and right. Based on the standard bell curve, they are a very small minority, and it takes a lot to overcome the inertia of the majority. That is a good thing when dealing with people like Rush, Jesse, Al, and all the other self appointed activists/pundits.
The big mouths do not speak for the majority, they just get more air time.
Thanks for the ears explanation. Now if you could just explain what Joe DiMaggio was doing on the grassy knoll.
If there were an illuminati they would allmost certainly be mystics. The mystical road to illumanation follows a fairly regular pattern:
1. The awakening
2. Initiation
3. The dark night of the soul
4. Burning off the dross
5. Illumination
In Alchemy they tried to make lead into gold. In the process they supposedly purified the spirit. All forms of mysticism are intrinsically secretive and defy textbook definition. They tend to worship the natural world, Wiccians for instance worship the moon goddess. The prevelance of naturalistic philosophy and science emphasises naturalistic phenomenom. This is very consistant with eastern mysticism. Keep in mind the religions of the east were a strong cultural influence on the west as it emerged from the dark ages. Natural law has become the god of the secular world and I sometimes wonder if that is by design.
I've been interested in mysticism for years and its really not that bad. The idea of the New World Order is on the dollar you have in your pocket. There is a phrase that means something like; The old world order welcomes the new world order. Its the idea of seasons emerging from winter to refresh the earth in spring. Now as far as Freemasons being able to control the world system, thats tough, I know that Washington was a Freemason because he is wearing a Masons apron in the lawn of the Statehouse here in Indiana. Now as far as him being a Satanicly inspiried puppetmaster, I'm going to need more then the fact that he was a Mason.
Consider this though. What is Satan's allurement? When he tempted Adam and Eve he offered them something. The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This was not intelligance per se, they allready had that. It was not factual data, they could learn that over time. It was a differant kind of knowledge, it was experiencial. I wont bore you with the semantics of my epistomology but he offered them a shortcut to wisdom (applied practicle knowledge) and still does.
Looking at organizations to understand mystics is a waste of perfectly good brain power. They are way ahead of you. The ultimate temptation is power and knowledge is power.
Join us Skywalker and we will rule the universe...wait a minute that was another archvillian
1. The awakening
2. Initiation
3. The dark night of the soul
4. Burning off the dross
5. Illumination
In Alchemy they tried to make lead into gold. In the process they supposedly purified the spirit. All forms of mysticism are intrinsically secretive and defy textbook definition. They tend to worship the natural world, Wiccians for instance worship the moon goddess. The prevelance of naturalistic philosophy and science emphasises naturalistic phenomenom. This is very consistant with eastern mysticism. Keep in mind the religions of the east were a strong cultural influence on the west as it emerged from the dark ages. Natural law has become the god of the secular world and I sometimes wonder if that is by design.
I've been interested in mysticism for years and its really not that bad. The idea of the New World Order is on the dollar you have in your pocket. There is a phrase that means something like; The old world order welcomes the new world order. Its the idea of seasons emerging from winter to refresh the earth in spring. Now as far as Freemasons being able to control the world system, thats tough, I know that Washington was a Freemason because he is wearing a Masons apron in the lawn of the Statehouse here in Indiana. Now as far as him being a Satanicly inspiried puppetmaster, I'm going to need more then the fact that he was a Mason.
Consider this though. What is Satan's allurement? When he tempted Adam and Eve he offered them something. The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This was not intelligance per se, they allready had that. It was not factual data, they could learn that over time. It was a differant kind of knowledge, it was experiencial. I wont bore you with the semantics of my epistomology but he offered them a shortcut to wisdom (applied practicle knowledge) and still does.
Looking at organizations to understand mystics is a waste of perfectly good brain power. They are way ahead of you. The ultimate temptation is power and knowledge is power.
Join us Skywalker and we will rule the universe...wait a minute that was another archvillian
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