jiandeng

Why do you want to be here in a country you think is so bad?

MT

What about all the good stuff here?

MT

This board covers quite a few points and opens quite a few areas. Sadly, I happen to be an American and I am among those who are said to have had an election last week.  And it wasn't a real election.  We were confronted with a very limited choice between democratic politicians who wanted a war and republican politicians who wanted a war.  No one asked us flat out if we wanted to go to war.  No one asked us if wanna send $10 billion to the madman Sharon.  We were simply manipulated as usual and told what a wonderful free country it is. 

In with regard to American imperialism I would take umbrage at the the contention that America's adventure in Indochina was not imperialist.  It was palpably imperialist.  There was no question about it.  Everyone knew it. The Vietnamese especially knew it and it took them twenty years to throw the Americans out of their country. The Americans have displayed their penchant for imperialism also in Kosovo to get a foothold in the Balkans which as everyone knows is a very strategic location. American imperialism raised its ugly head in Somalia but the Somalis quickly threw them out of their country. American imperialism showed up in Lebanon both through Israeli aggression from the south and American shelling from the sea. We also saw American imperialism when Reagan sent a mercenary army into Nicaragua.

The current circumstance is a ham handed oil grab being mounted against the Republic of Iraq, which is a member of the U.N. Bush and his Nazi henchman have tried to demonize the president of Iraq, Saddam Hussein and turn it into a personal vendetta. But everyone knows that it's nothing but an oil grab. The whole world knows it.  Even Bush's obedient stooge media are having trouble covering it.  So they simply avoid the subject and rant on in repetitious tirades against Saddam Hussein.  Except it's an oil grab folks; it's an oil grab.  

Wow Jerry...don't have kids.  Geesh, and we wonder why the IQ scores are dropping.

Darcaine

This board covers quite a few points and opens quite a few areas. Sadly, I happen to be an American and I am among those who are said to have had an election last week.  And it wasn't a real election.  We were confronted with a very limited choice between democratic politicians who wanted a war and republican politicians who wanted a war.  No one asked us flat out if we wanted to go to war.  No one asked us if wanna send $10 billion to the madman Sharon.  We were simply manipulated as usual and told what a wonderful free country it is. 

In with regard to American imperialism I would take umbrage at the the contention that America's adventure in Indochina was not imperialist.  It was palpably imperialist.  There was no question about it.  Everyone knew it. The Vietnamese especially knew it and it took them twenty years to throw the Americans out of their country. The Americans have displayed their penchant for imperialism also in Kosovo to get a foothold in the Balkans which as everyone knows is a very strategic location. American imperialism raised its ugly head in Somalia but the Somalis quickly threw them out of their country. American imperialism showed up in Lebanon both through Israeli aggression from the south and American shelling from the sea. We also saw American imperialism when Reagan sent a mercenary army into Nicaragua.

The current circumstance is a ham handed oil grab being mounted against the Republic of Iraq, which is a member of the U.N. Bush and his Nazi henchman have tried to demonize the president of Iraq, Saddam Hussein and turn it into a personal vendetta. But everyone knows that it's nothing but an oil grab. The whole world knows it.  Even Bush's obedient stooge media are having trouble covering it.  So they simply avoid the subject and rant on in repetitious tirades against Saddam Hussein.  Except it's an oil grab folks; it's an oil grab.  

The current circumstance is a ham handed oil grab being mounted against the Republic of Iraq, which is a member of the U.N. Bush and his Nazi henchman have tried to demonize the president of Iraq, Saddam Hussein and turn it into a personal vendetta. But everyone knows that it's nothing but an oil grab. The whole world knows it.  Even Bush's obedient stooge media are having trouble covering it.  So they simply avoid the subject and rant on in repetitious tirades against Saddam Hussein.  Except it's an oil grab folks; it's an oil grab.  

Of course its an oil grab.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
The American balance of payements is in the biggest poo in its history and the general public is suffering from a distinct lack of information regarding it.

The Administration is hopeing and praying Saddam wont agree to the UN conditions, and if he does, he breaks them at some stage.
If he does comply and sticks to it what then?.
Another excuse for attacking?.

Time will tell and fortunatly for the politicions comfy-cozy people have short memories.

But I believe there is more to it than that.
Iraq is a major threat to Israel and its expansionist policy in the Arab world.
It already has missiles that can reach Tel Aviv and although Israel now has an anti-missile system it cant stop them all.
Taking Iraq out of the game is very much in their interests.

Regards...Alan

Darcaine - could you articulate exactly what you feel are Alan's lies?  Your blanket statement makes it hard for us to debate anything.

Jaime,  what would be the point of articulating that mash of garbage.

I, too, would like a bit of articulation here. At Darcaine's request, I did re-read Alan's post - and I'm still not sure to which fact or facts Darcaine takes exception. To "simply point out they are all lies" is no more convincing than making the initial blanket statement that his post consisted of "lies upon lies". Name-calling is easy, Darcaine - is there anything in Alan's posting you'd actually like to refute?

Hate to see Darcaine win by such a large margin Alan. Come with some meat next time you want to make   a sandwich.

Automobiles - who needs 'em anyway!

Industries - dependent on oil - shut 'em down!

To hell with the rest of the world.

Bury your heads in the sand!

Alan for President!


jjirout

Jaime/Turnea.

I DO NOT HATE AMERICANS.

Having said that let me enlarge on it.

In answer to Jaime.
My apparant disgust of Americans.

America gave a vibrancy to the World during the 60's to 80's when your products and style of life was embraced willingly.
I am well aware that some civillian Americans object to your involvement in external affairs.
I am also aware that you allowed your military to become so powerfull that it now appears to influence policy.
The reasons given for the huge expenditure of money on military, as they always are, throughout history, from the Romans to the British Empire, are explained away as a 'Force of arms nessessary to protect the Nation'.
It has NEVER been the case.
The military has always been used to expand frontiers, occupying by force and introducing their 'superior' way of life to those who had survived long before we were in existance.
The best way to make enemies.


In Answer to Turnea.

Your comment on insulting is accepted, my apologies if it appeared that way.

Point 1&2.

'Reds under the Beds' syndrome.
It was always reasonable to expect the Soviet economy to reach 'meltdown' at some stage.
The importation of foreign recources FAR outweighed their export ability.
Nobody wanted to be paid in roubles.
Concentration on military build-up and their desire to perpetuate Communism through the World helped the decay.

In a different context......may I suggest America is on course to do the same.
America is the worlds largest debtor.
The 'Gnomes of Zurich' and the World are tied into your economy.
You go down...we all do.
At the end of the fiscal year 2000 your balance of payements were $1.2 trillion in the red and increasing of which Approx 1/4 of your GNP was assigned to military.
WHY? do it.
Please feel free to check this, I may be a few million out.

Point 3.

I have to ask this when you talk about lives lost after American Nuclear Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagisaki.
WHO'S LIVES?.
Americans?
Please explain to me how you can EVER justify the tens of thousands Japanese civillians killed, and still dying.
Your civillians were never touched.
War IS brutal, I agree and it appears you changed the rules for ever.

Point 3/4.

You are right in reference to WW1.
The Germans and Allies used mustard gas.
NOT really chemical weapons more like lethal gas.
I cannot find any instance of Napalm being used during WW1 or WW2.
Please advise.

The US introduced the World to Chemical weapons with 'Agent Orange'.
defoliant of which Americans, Allies and Vietnamese are still having health problems.
The US used Napalm extesively during Vietnam despite your being a signatory against the use of it.
Again....you have made new rules.
All through history the'big sticks' bent the rules and you are no different.

Point 5.
In todays World.
You ARE dangerous to world peace.
So were the Germans and their 'big stick'.
So were the Soviets and their 'big stick'.
And now the US and their 'big stick'.

So it goes on  and on.
You are in a responsible position to stop it.

Do it, be you, be the Us with it's new things for us.

Regards.........Alan

And where do you get your facts, HeatherRob?  You have just spent two posts spouting unbacked statistics.  What are your sources?

HeatherRob, I think you are part of a large portion of American's who have begun to think that the end justify any means. I don't agree with lying and cheating and throwing our values out the window whenever it suits us and I disagree that we do this all in the name of freedom and justice. That's just something that you tell yourself.

For instance, how can you be so proud of how we (inadvertently) helped women from life under the rules of the Taliban while the we equally flaunt our friendship with Pakistan, a country where many women are treated brutally as well? We are friendly with them because we want something, and as long as they are on our good side they can treat their people as bad as they like. Same goes for Turkey. I don't find much to brag about in that area because it's all self serving.