QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ Aug 26 2007, 11:14 PM)

Gigantic (A Tale of Two Johns) Enjoyable for folks like me who thought that TMBG were at their best with the albums Flood and Apollo 18.
(By the way, why is it that there is quite a bit of discussion about what the name of the band might or might not mean, but nobody ever mentions the fact that They Might Be Giants was the title of a fairly well-known play and movie?)
I'm surprised no one asked Flansburgh and Linnell themselves - the band's bio usually mentions that the name comes from the film based on James Goldman's play (whose title is a reference to Don Quixote's tilting at windmills - which were
not of course giants, but thinking they
might be demonstrated either heroic imagination or dementia). Anyway, I must look for
Gigantic - I agree that those are TMBG's two best albums (though
Lincoln isn't bad, either). Thanks!
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ Aug 26 2007, 11:14 PM)

Village of the Damned is, of course, the famous adaptation of The Midwich Cuckoos. Everybody in a small English town loses consciousness for a time, even the animals. When they wake up, all the women of child-bearing age -- even the virgins -- are pregnant. The result is a bunch of white-haired, unsmiling, super-intelligent children with telepathic powers. A simple story, really, but very nicely done with British understatement and realism. (Is this the first use of Evil Children With Glowing Eyes?)
It's the first use of Evil Glowing-Eyed Children that
I know of - and probably the most effective.
Village of the Damned was made when films were more dependent on craft and imagination than gimmickry and stunts. Which brings me to the reason I'm posting here:
The Bourne Ultimatum
I'm afraid I have to agree with most of the technical criticisms of the film that have been leveled here - and share the disappointment of many here, especially, as has been mentioned, since the film has been getting such rave reviews (97% at
Rotten Tomatoes last time I checked).
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Aug 4 2007, 05:32 AM)

The only thing that may bother you is director Paul Greengrass's fondness for hand-held camera shots. What he gains in gritty realism, he occasionally gives away with some shaky shots that make it hard to tell what exactly is happening a few times.
QUOTE(doomed_planet @ Sep 3 2007, 11:02 PM)

The Bourne Ultimatum is one of the most disappointing, albeit over-hyped movies I've seen in a long time. First of all, the shaking of the camera (done to add authenticity to a very far-fetched plot line) gave me a mild headache. It was too much action, if you ask me.
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 4 2007, 05:36 AM)

I agree, Doomed... Basically every minute was "tense", to the point that an hour into it I started looking at my watch. One can only stand so much action, then it all starts to blend together and become boring.
QUOTE(carlitoswhey @ Sep 4 2007, 10:17 AM)

I have to second and third the C grade for Bourne Ultimatum. I really like the Ludlum books, and was hoping that this one would deliver like the first two, but was disappointed. And not just for the overtly Anti-American subtext, with eeeeevil politicians doing bad things. More for the shaky video, the unrealistic settings, and the almost complete lack of story development.
While I can't say that it was
only Greengrass's "fondness for hand-held camera shots" that bothered me, it was certainly the
main thing that bothered me. I wish someone had told me beforehand that Paul Greengrass had directed the film: I would have known what to expect. The problems that afflicted
The Bourne Ultimatum are the same problems with which
United 93 (and, to an extent,
The Bourne Supremacy) was beset - primarily, a director without much of a clue about coherent film-making.
United 93 and
Ultimatum are both chaotic to the point of being incomprehensible.
I'm not talking about being able to follow the story here. The plot of
Ultimatum - such plot as remains - is pretty straightforward and is roughly the same as the first two films: Matt Damon himself described it on
The Daily Show as "The Bourne Redundancy"). I'm talking about coherent
photography. Film is a visual medium - the story is told through pictures. Much of film's terminology is derived from the visual arts - and there's as much focus on composition, line, color, rhythm, and focus. Many terms used to describe styles of paintings have been applied to film: directors can take classical or romantic approaches to film-making; movies can be realistic or expressionistic or naturalistic or surreal;
film noir might use
chiaroscuro, while more romantic films may emulate the lighting of impressionist painters; and so on. It seems Paul Greenglass is attempting to be the Jackson Pollack of film-making.
I didn't have minded the hypertension or the sustained action to which
Mrs. P and
doomed refer - these have worked quite well in films ranging from
Terminator to
Children of Men - it was the way in which the tension was (artificially) sustained and the fact that the action of the plot was subverted to the relentless action of the
camera.
The heightened energy created by jump cuts, crash zooms, drifting framings, racking focus, uncompleted pans, and generally jittery camera-work
can be quite effective - it can create a sense of immediacy, of movement and pace, of being
in the action (films like
Natural Born Killers and
Man on Fire - even Woody Allen's
Husbands and Wives - come to mind). In more able hands (like those of Oliver Stone or Tony Scott), this type of shooting and cutting
might have resulted in a flashy, rough-edged film that was as gripping as it was exhausting. With Greengrass, though, the result more often tends to be an incoherent mess. He showed considerably more restraint in
The Bourne Supremacy and the result was a much better composed picture. With
Ultimatum, he never applies the brakes - there is not a single static shot in the entire film (in which there are 3200 shots in 105 minutes - about two seconds per shot). Worse, the "intensified continuity" of the film results in far too many shots in which the viewer can't even discern the
subject of the frame. In a
couple of sequences - especially the fight scenes - this works (in that photography is about as disorienting as being caught in the middle of a brawl). But sustained over an hour and forty-five minutes, it does
not work.
The viewer needs to know what is going on in a film
visually. Greengrass gives us nothing.
Listening to the few bits of dialogue without the images, the film would be easy enough to follow. But if one were watching
The Bourne Ultimatum without volume, one would not be able to grasp the first thing about the plot, any of the characters, or any of their motivations. The visual information just isn't there. In terms of impact,
Ultimatum is more like a thrill ride than a movie. One comes away having been affected physically - but without a story having been told.
In
Bloody Sunday, this technique was used somewhat more sparingly and it worked very well (as it did in
The Battle of Algiers made thirty-five years earlier). And I thought Greengrass was a director with some promise.
The Bourne Supremacy didn't change my opinion much either way. While this technique was getting a bit old by
United 93 - especially as it seemed to be taking over the film entirely - it still seemed appropriate: we couldn't tell what was going on in so many shots because no one knows what
was going on during much of the film's action - and it helped underscore the "real time" setting. The main problem with
United 93 -
and with
The Bourne Ultimatum - is that they only become coherent when the script is about to venture into complete fantasy.
In
United 93, the only thing we really come away with about the flight itself is that terrorists were going to crash a plane into the Capitol Building and that the passengers stormed the cockpit with a tea cart causing the plane to crash prematurely and saving the day. In reality, while we don't know
what the target was, we do know that the cockpit was never breached. In the film, that fictional event is about the only thing to emerge from the chaos of the plane scenes. The other sequences, while a bit more comprehensible, are similarly skewed. The film is biased
toward the valiant flight controllers and prejudiced
against the relatively sluggish military. Again, neither seems to have much to do with fact. In
The Bourne Ultimatum, there is little in the film that
isn't chaotic - and the only real moments of clarity and calm are at the end of the film - just in time for another flight of fancy. More on that below. But, stylistically, I'm afraid Paul Greengrass is turning out to be an artist who's less akin to
Jackson Pollack than he is to
Pablo the Chimp.
As to the "political" content of the
Bourne trilogy...
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 4 2007, 05:36 AM)

And of course there was the obligatory political statement towards the end.
QUOTE(carlitoswhey @ Sep 4 2007, 10:17 AM)

I really like the Ludlum books, and was hoping that this one would deliver like the first two, but was disappointed. And not just for the overtly Anti-American subtext, with eeeeevil politicians doing bad things.
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Sep 4 2007, 12:08 PM)

It's fine and dandy with me if some folks didn't dig The Bourne Ultimatum. Different strokes, and all that, but I do take issue with the "overtly Anti-American subtext" remark.
Carlitoswhey may have noticed a hidden agenda in the script that I missed, but if you took every movie that suggested the CIA and federal government have done illegal things, manipulated events or otherwise been engaged in unsavory acts and characterized them as "anti-American" we'd be stuck with nothing but Disney flicks and endless variations of Meet the Fockers.
I would suggest that anyone who thinks director Paul Greengrass is advancing a "anti-American" agenda in The Bourne Ultimatum should watch his previous film, United 93. It's tough to watch 40 brave Americans try to thwart terrorists who are attempting to crash a plane into the U.S. Capitol building on September 11, 2001, but Greengrass does an exemplary job in depicting an almost unwatchable event.
QUOTE(carlitoswhey @ Sep 4 2007, 02:36 PM)

QUOTE(nighttimer @ Sep 4 2007, 09:08 AM)

Carlitoswhey may have noticed a hidden agenda in the script that I missed, but if you took every movie that suggested the CIA and federal government have done illegal things, manipulated events or otherwise been engaged in unsavory acts and characterized them as "anti-American" we'd be stuck with nothing but Disney flicks and endless variations of Meet the Fockers.
Could the movie have spent 5 minutes explaining why there even was this top-secret unit of which Bourne is a member? What threat(s) they responded to? The only thing we know is that they assassinated a Russian guy, a German guy and an African guy. No why's or wherefores, unlike the current situation where we are responding specifically to Islamic terrorists. A little context would have balanced it out, that's all. No, it wouldn't even come close to excusing brainwashing guys to kill people, yada yada. It's a fictional movie, and the fiction is all about power-drunk bad white guys secretly running the government. Sorry, I call that an anti-american subtext, and by 'american' I mean checks and balances, etc.
I'm not quite sure I grasp your complaint here,
carlito. Are you suggesting that if the Blackbriar boys, instead of assassinating a Russian guy, a German guy, and an African guy, had assassinated a Saudi guy, a Pakistani guy, and a Syrian guy, the film would have been less "anti-American"? I
know you don't mean the film would be less "anti-American" were the antagonists bad
black guys, so I can't quite see what difference "a little context" would make in bad guys upsetting checks and balances, etc.
In any event, you don't seem to be saying that the film
itself is anti-American, but that it is
about anti-Americanism, about bad guys of whatever color doing "anti-American" things. If checks and balances are your concern,
any film about the CIA is going to have an "anti-American" subtext - and, usually, an "anti-American" . Unless, as
nighttimer suggested, you're denying that the CIA has been involved in planning and carrying out political assassinations - not to mention overthrowing foreign governments, installing military dictatorships, spying on American citizens, interfering in foreign elections, and causing the deaths of large numbers of innocent people - then the mere mention of the letters C, I, and A implies an anti-American flouting of checks and balances - at the very least. Indeed, since Richard Helms, the corrupt intelligence chief plot has practically constituted a sub-genre of espionage films.
I just don't see how the charge applies more to
this film than it does to just about any other espionage move ever made. In fact, any spy movie that
didn't involve corrupt leaders or double agents or political collusion or seditious informers or insider conspiracies would be pretty pedestrian stuff. Or do you just prefer Evil Geniuses with buxom assistants (but no distracting national affiliations) developing a death ray for sale to the highest bidder with only a gadget-laden stud standing in their nefarious way? Like
nighttimer says, different strokes and all that - but the
Bourne series seemed to be going for a bit more "realism" which means a bit less cleavage, somewhat more likely villains, and fewer wristwatches that transform into personal helicopters.
And, despite all the hyper-real Queasicam photography, it was in its attempt at "realism" that I felt the film most disappointed. Not because of the far-fetched plot or all the unidimensional characters that were too good or too evil to be true (the premise alone demands a pretty hefty suspension of disbelief) - but because of the film's resolution.
My problem with the "politics" of the film is common to many spy movies - and, well, most fiction in general. As Oscar Wilde said, "The good ended happily and the bad unhappily - that is what fiction
means." And that's kinda what
I meant above by saying that both
Ultimatum and
United 93 only become coherent when they're about venture into absolute fantasy. In
United 93, it was to make the passengers look "heroic" and the authorities to look incompetent, at least by comparison. In
Ultimatum, it's to give the audience a gratuitous "happy ending": whistle-blowers triumph and end up testifying before Congress; renegade agents fighting for truth, justice, and the American way ride off into the sunset, vindicated; and corrupt officials are caught and punished - even Deputy Directors of the CIA. This may not be "anti-American", but it's certainly anti-realism. It was good to see this movie's batch of villains get their comeuppance, but after three films, two of which were pretty riveting, with relatively satisfying endings, I was expecting something a bit more... convincing.
Maybe Greengrass has got this whole style-over-substance thing out of his system now and can return to the promise that was demonstrated in
Bloody Sunday. I certainly hope so: his next project is supposed to be an adaptation of Rajiv Chandrasekaran's
Imperial Life in the Emerald City - and it would be
very depressing to see such good material rendered incomprehensible.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::
I hope you enjoy
Pan's Labyrinth,
CR. Like just about everyone here who's commented on it over the months, I thought it was great. There were quite a few good films released last year, but with
Children of Men and
The Queen, it was one of the best. It's a nice blend of fantasy, romance, horror, war, and coming-of-age movies - and works pretty well in each genre.