I'm a little perplexed by the arguments from people regarding homosexuals "flaunting their sexuality" In my day to day life, I rarely see homosexuals doing anything that I don't see heterosexuals doing. What exactly do you mean by flaunting? Kissing in public? Holding hands? What?

Everywhere I've been I see far more flaunting of heterosexuality. I see far more holding of hands and public displays of affection between men and women than same sex couples. I have yet to see public advertisements flaunting homosexuality while heterosexuality permeates the media. Every homosexual I know keeps their sexuality to themselves unless asked. Meanwhile my other friends find it acceptable and almost comforting to slander women and talk explicitly about their sexuality.

It seems the only way they could possibly make themselves less public is to renounce their sexuality entirely or practice it no place other than their home. Maybe that's appealing to some people, but that's nothing more than prejudice.

I have been standing at the edge of this cesspool of a thread, pondering the wisdom of jumping in. Every time I get ready to do it I read another piece of flotsam and retreat. The personal attacks, taunts and venom have kept me at bay and I'm sure many many others as well.

Well, you only live once so what the heck, I might as well join in.

I have no clue whether homosexuality is 'right' or 'wrong'. I lean towards wrong because it just doesn't seem, well, right. Maybe 'right' isn't the word as much as unnatural or abnormal (outside the norm).

I don't like men who swish, sway and swoon. I think it is all for effect. Effect being to 'put it in your face'. I don't like women who carry themselves in a way that makes me think they can kick my *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. ***, and seem to want to do it. Same reason.

The image of two men having sex is repulsive to me. Two women? Only if they're both feminine. I think the term is 'lipstick lesbian'. Why the difference? Best I can figure is that I secretly hope the women might ask me to either watch or join in.

In some ways I envy the emotional bonds in a gay relationship because I see a couple who must truly care for each other because they're living in a world of very limited acceptance. Much like those stone-broke couples who live on love and not much else. But that envy never seems to extend itself to the sexual aspect of their relationship.

I wouldn't want a gay couple to raise a child because I feel that kids need both a real mother and a real father. I believe there is some kind of natural balance that is needed to best raise a child, and mommy or daddy lite doesn't quite cut it.

I'm sure there's plenty more to examine but I don't have time right now, Three's Company re-run is coming on!

OK!OK!OK! I know I wasn't going to post on this subject again but I just HAD to after Passion51 take on this issue. I'm not going to argue or say your wrong or anything negative, infact, I have something positve to remark on.



And though the remarks proceeding this are...interesting, to say the least, I find this statement somewhat reasurring!

Thankyou!

I may not approve or support homosexual behavior. But after hearing about the Supreme Court’s ruling on the Texas case I am a happy man that our personal liberty in this matter of privacy in one’s home has been upheld.

It is a good day today to be an American.(in this case)

In case someone doesn't know what slowtime9 is talking about:

Court overturns Texas sodomy law

Justices say it violates Constitution’s equal protection clause

WASHINGTON, June 26 — In a major victory for gay rights advocates, the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday struck down a Texas statute that bans gay couples — but not heterosexuals — from engaging in sodomy, ruling that the law was an unconstitutional violation of privacy.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/929327.asp?cp1=

Hip Hip Hooray!!! Hip Hip Hooray!!!

What a great day for gay rights!!!!!!!!! I think I'm going to cry

Now wait just a minute. Why only for Gay couples?

I don't have a problem with Gay people at all but shouldn't the sodomy law just be abolished all together. Doesn't this just becomes a special rights issue now, because now special rights are given to one group but not another just based on sexual preference?

Obviously, you are right, but I think the quote in context states that the law was being enforced only against homosexuals "but not heterosexuals."

Clearly, the fact that such a law exists at all, directed against anyone, is shameful.

Yes and no. I see your point, but look at it from this point of view: Straight people have the "traditional" way of making love and the more "unconventional" ways. I'm trying not to get graphic, so use your imagination. Gay people do not have the option, since, well two people of the same gender obviously cannot have sexual intercourse in the average sense of the word. I don't agree that they didn't apply this law to straight people. Straight's have just as much right to alternative sexual acts as gay's do.

I don't have any documentation at present, but from what I remember when this first came to my attention is that they are refraining from aboloshing sodomy laws altogether because they can be used to extend prison sentences for sexual offenders.

The unfortunate aspect of this case was that it was being used to arrest and prosecute consenting adults who were homosexual, while exempting consenting adults of heterosexual persuasion.

Based on most of the information given thus far, I (and all females) would be much better off if we gave up men all- together.
Men are obviously primary germ and disease carriers. They (at least as far as their physical presence is concerned) aren't needed for reproduction, since we have artificial insemination. There isn't much (if anything) in the bible vilifying lesbian sex. The course is obvious...only women can have sex with other women. That is true and right, based on observation of pathogenesis. All other types of relationships should be discouraged.

Of course, I'm bluffing ....But, it is the natural conclusion if we follow the course of much of this debate

I don't understand why lesbians always get the bad wrap of being men haters. I hear and observe more straight women complain and bash men than any a lesbian! Straight women have more legitimate reasons to hate men than us! The only thing I ever get mad at one of my guy friends about is when he notices a pretty girl before I do!

Honestly though, my best friends are guys. You could say I'm a little bit of a tomboy! But you are right, men, straight and gay are more prone to passing along diseases, just the nature of their anatomy though, they can't help it, they were born that way...

I my guy friends on the board!

My point isn't to bash lesbians as men haters in my post (sorry if it came off wrong). I'm trying to make the point that you don't necessarily make a conscious choice about who you fall in love with, or feel an affinity towards. No one thinks, "Let's see...if I sleep with Bill (or Mary) I would be more likely to get a disease". Quality of life, and happiness are the primary issues of importance in a relationship.

Because a few lesbians do hate men, and there's a distinct tendency in our society to attribute the worst traits of any group member to all group members. Just think how many times you've heard all liberals characterized as hard-core communists, or all libertarians characterized as crypto-anarchists. Do conservatives believe there's such a thing as a "good Muslim"? See, I just did it to conservatives, and I'll bet a lot of people didn't even notice. Stereotypes are remarkably resistant to reason.

I'm sorry, I was making a JOKE. I guess it didn't come off the way I wanted it too! *geesh* My point is that I was agreeing with the previous posts about MEN and was just being a smart *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** in the process. I guess certain cultural jokes can be taken out of context if read or told to someone who isn't apart of that particular culture and thus may not get the implied humor behind the statement.

Okay, back on topic

Do you think that homosexuality is right or wrong?

Apparently Antonin Scalia does (and so does Clarence Thomas and William Rehnquist). The rest of the court doesn't think enforcing one standard of behavior for heterosexuals and another for homosexuals is constitutional.

Those whom believe America is falling into a moral morass will be outraged. Everyone else will be reasonably certain the sun is going to rise tomorrow.

Whew. What a week for the Supreme Court!

Just a quick question, P51 (mostly to determine exactly how "wrong" you think homosexuality might be): Which would you personally prefer, a child with a single parent (or in state care with no parents) or a child with two parents of the same sex?

My preference would be a child with a man for a daddy and a woman for a mommy. I think the child deserves nothing less.

That's not what you were asked.

Actually Scalia's dissenting opinion does not claim homosexuality is wrong, it questions rather federal interference in the state's decision on these matters is constitutional. It is sad that individuals cannot disagree on a constitutional issue without being labeled homophobes. I an =m not outraged, just mildly disappointed that one more swipe has been taken at our Constitution.

Sodomy laws are riduculous. They were on there way out before this decision, It is another day for believers in the Constitution.

Since my reply was too subtle for you to comprehend I'll try to be more specific. In the two cases that Wertz mentions, I would prefer that a ceaseless effort be made to bring the child into a traditional family setting. Nothing less than that effort would suffice.

Passion51


A traditional family setting would be a full of love, respect, good morals and unending attention and effection for a child. And before your rebuttal on "gay people can't be good examples of traditional morals", why couldn't a homosexual couple teach a child personal respect, honesty, hard work ethics and compassion for your fellow man? There are countless heterosexual parents with questionable personal ethics that raise children and only in the extremist of circumstances are the children taken out of the home. I think it would also, from experience, be healthier for a child to have two same sex parents who could be an example of what a healthy, loving and nurturing relationship is supposed to be like, than be raised by a single parent, who in the end is over whelmed and frustrated by the lack of a partner to take on the responsibilities of raising a child. Children can obviously sense the emotional state of a parent, would you rather them sense bitterness and resentment from either a single parent or possibly an abusive, neglective household. Or MAYBE, just maybe, feel the security and warmth of a home that just happens to be gay?

You paint quite the rosy picture. Are all gay relationships like that? I imagine they're not. Kinda makes for a very unfair premise.

But even the happy ones are lacking in what I believe is a vital component. Men and women are different and each brings unique contributions to the family table. A 'faux' mom or dad taints that family image, the one I believe a child should be reared into.

And I'm sure ALL straight relationships are perfect? I seem to recall that HALF of marriages end in divorce. To error is human. It's NOT unfair to compare what you consider unsatisfactory parents(homosexuals) and what I consider unsatisfactory conditions(single parents or abusive\neglectful homes).

I come from a broken home, which if you asked around the board, you would find many other people do too. And I know that I would have given ANYTHING to have had my parents stay together and I remember how hard it was on my mother to have to raise a teenager all on her own with NO HELP from my father. I vividly remember the sense of abandonment I felt when my father left us. You would agree that divorce has a negative effect on a child, I hope. I believe that a child would benefit better from a COUPLE straight\gay, than a single parent. And no, not all mother\father figures are a good influence on their children, their are many parents with criminal records, shoot, just watch the news and see the amount of child neglect, abuse and the such occur in this country. how many cases of gay couples or parents do you see on the 10 o'clock news introuble with the law for the treatment of their children? Few, if any. How many disturbed lesbians do you see strapping their small boys into their car and driving it into a lake, or drowning their children in the bath tub?

I'm not saying that EVERY homosexual is a fit to be a parent, just as not all straight people are either.

To steal a page from your playbook, Passion:
"You paint quite the rosy picture. Are all heterosexual mothers and fathers like that? I imagine they're not. Kinda makes for a very unfair premise."

Being a heterosexual does not automatically qualify anybody for Father or Mother of the year awards. As a matter of fact I don't believe sexual preference has any bearing on whether or not a parent is compassionate, attentive or nurturing. Heterosexuals have dominated the child rearing stage for the entire history of this country and they have shown themselves to be far from perfect, many of them certainly demonstrating their lack of parenting ability.

Just as being a heterosexual doesn't qualify one to be a good parent, being homosexual should not disqualify anyone either. Do you have anything to support the notion that heterosexual parents would have anything more to contribute than homosexual ones, or are you simply speculating on this one?

Ultimatejoe is right. That's an evasion, not an answer. One more try:

It is a fact, P51 - a fact - that right now - today - there are approximately 565,000 foster care children in the United States - and hundreds of thousands more worldwide. It is a fact that only 17% of them will find an adoptive family before aging out of state care - and that many of them will end up homeless. There simply are not enough "real" mommies and "real" daddies (who care) to go around - and the "ceaseless effort" of which you dream would not make them spontaneously generate out of thin air.

It is also a fact that there are thousands of same sex couples who would be willing to adopt these children - today.

What would you prefer that we do in terms of dealing with the reality, Passion? There is not a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage, and a handsome, pipe-smoking father in every easy chair. Do you prefer that, here on planet earth in 2003, thousands of children who could be living in safe, loving environments instead live out their childhood in state care before becoming homeless?

My lover and I have two fosters sons. Are you suggesting that we should throw them out on the street in the event that Ozzie and Harriet might happen to be driving by? Are you willing to take over loving, supporting, and educating them for us, Passion?

I don't really expect you to answer this time either, but maybe you'll think about it...




The rosy picture Billy Jean paints looks pretty typical to me. Of course not all gay relationships are like that, just as not all straight relationships are anything like that. But, then, I am only speaking from experience, not prejudice.

oh, ofcourse no relationship is perfect, I'm by no means naive. well, depends on what subject.... anyway!! I said earlier, to error is human and nobody is perfect. But a couple raising a child can hopefully instill the basis of what a healthy relationship should be like. And also teach that child good interpersonal relationship skills. This can be accomplished alot easier with two people parenting, rather than a single parrent. In addition, you really NEED a partner for parenting, so you don't get burnt out. Every one needs a break and personal time. It's really hard to soak in the tub when there's a toddler running crazy in the home, getting into who knows what!

I never said all hetero relationships were good or that all make good parents. Please don't spin my words. What I did say was that a child is best reared by a mother and a father. All other choices are less desirable than that.

As for the shelter example, I don't think same-sex adoption should be permitted. You almost word your case as though saying since they can't get the best let's at least give them something. I think that would be very damaging to a child's psyche.

As for your personal situation Wertz, noone suggested you toss your foster sons into the street, that's a bit melodramatic dontcha think? I would suggest though that you should not have been able to take them in in the first place.

Personally, I think the whole homo lifestyle is abnormal. And since we are all products of our environment, at least to some degree, I wouldn't want children reared in such an abnormal setting, particularly in their formative years. Teaching tolerance doesn't require living the life.

Then what, pray tell, makes a heterosexual couple more suitable for raising children than a homosexual couple? I made the statement earlierWould you argue otherwise? Do you think simply that the comination of a man and woman automatically equate to a better home environment, and if so, do you have anything to support this?

What is it about being raised by same-sex parents that you think would damage a child's psyche? Homosexual children don't appear to have incurred any psychological trauma or their personal sexual preference being raised by heterosexual parents, so why shouldn't the same be true for heterosexual children raised by homosexual parents?
Nobody is asking you to live the life of a homosexual raising children with a same-sex partner. All you are being asked is to tolerate the right of others to live that life.

I take offense to you using the word "homo" like that. You might as well just say f*ggot or d*ke.

HOW is being raised by a same sex couple going to hurt a childs psyche?! Is there any documented cases of a messsed up kid who got on top of a water tower and started poping people off because he had lesbians for moms?! Where is your evidence to back up your accusations?!

Homosexual Parenting: Placing Children at Risk

Homosexual Parenting

Homosexual Parenting Studies Are Flawed, Report Says

there is substantial evidence to support the value to children of being raised by two parents, one male and one female, and that even in the studies promoting homosexual parenting there is some evidence of potential harm to children

Same-Sex Parenting Fails Children

Even Rosie Knows Homosexual Adoption Puts Children at Risk

Your first link : This sight is bias towards anti homosexuals and one of it's founding members is James C. Dobson a homophobe.

Your third link:


Any child will be effected if their parent or community is discriminated against. But who's to say if the effects are negative or positive. People in adverse situations usually rise above it and become better people.

and your last link:


another Christian Biased site and obviously homophobic.

two of the three sites are not third party with agendas of their own against homosexuals.

Attacking the source of an argument does not defeat the argument. Ask Platypus about this...

With same sex parents, it is a guarantee that at least ONE of the parents has no biological link to the child. While some might dismiss this as irrelevant, I believe a child WANTS to be with his or her natural parents. If one (same sex) parent IS a biological parent, then the situation becomes akin to a divorced couple from the outset (where is Daddy/Mommy? Doesn't he/she love me? Doesn't he/she want to be with us?)

Your claim that oppressed people "rise up" flies in the face of the Affirmative Action argument and indeed, pretty much most of the liberal argument that the oppressed need help from the outside.

From your earlier post:

You used one of those terms yourself earlier. Of course, I am of the personal belief that people who take offense at terms (i.e. "homo" rather than "same sex" or "homosexual" or "Negro" instead of "black") are a little insecure to begin with. If I am an idiot, call me an idiot, instead of intellectually challenged or some other pandering nonsense.

Your first post:


Edited a few minutes later to:


What's it going to be next?


Is this really the best you people can do? Whine and complain about sources? Everything I've said up until now is no secret. This is not obscure information. If I know it, anybody in the gay community paying attention knows it (whether or not they disagree with it is another story).

So, as usual, attack the messenger when you can't do anything about the message.



Oh, so it's MY fault. I get it. of course, 10 minutes ago that didn't appear to be a factor when everybody is ranting about how there is no difference (of course, without sources).


Tell this to the African American community after you provide some sources supporting that. And then please explain how children will not be harmed by your great social experiment.


Obviously? Because they are Christian? Didn't you say you or your significant other was a Christian?

And do you even KNOW what homophobic means?

Haven't you ever "risen above" adversity in your life before? You obviously didn't grasp the meaning of the sentence. Don't worry I do not need any help from you or the "outside". I am quite self sufficient. So I guess straight people who adopt should be afraid that the child they've taken in is going to grow up and resent them for the love and acceptance into their family, because they aren't the biological parents. And yes, I did call your sources out because in a scientific study, it would be assumed that their would be an IMPARTIAL party involved.

Yes my partner and I are Christians, but I am a firm believer in the prayer "Lord, protect me from thy followers." Just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I'm a narrow minded Southern Baptist.

Why don't you tell me what a homophobe is, seeing that your such the expert on the subject.



Are you saying that the African American community ISN'T better off after fighting segregation and discrimination. Our Secretary of State is an African American for pete sake!

I think the 600,000 children in foster homes would just love to be loved by anyone no matter what their sexual preference. Look at the documented cases of child abuse in homes of "straight" "couples" compared to documented cases of homosexual child abuse. It's outrageous.



I'd rather children live with a homosexual couple or single family home than live in foster care or with an abusive parent.

Amlord,
Just to clear this up (and i hope this doesn't offend my fellow liberals on the board) , a homosexual, like an African American, can call another person of their culture the slang of that particular culture with out any ramifications. For example, if a white person walked up to an African American and said "What's up N***a?" That person would be hurt and understandably so. So it's my perogative to use the word homo, seeing that I AM a HOMOSEXUAL.

I don't agree with you on that, Billy Jean, but I believe it would be best taken up in this thread: Cultural differences, Segregating cultural humor?

Let's keep this topic on debating whether or not you believe homosexuality is "right" or "wrong."

Molestation is a subject wholly different from this one. From your own link:


Also, the most widespread case of abuse is Catholic priests molesting boys. I would characterize this as homosexual behavior. Some might disagree.

I could not find a stat as to how many child molestation cases are same sex. I would assume that men do the majority of these assaults, on both boys and girls.

Getting back to the argument at hand...

In a society that allowed freedom of association (i.e. the right to choose the people you live, work, and play with) let's say that two communities decide to isolate themselves. One community is homosexuals who no longer want to be discriminated against due to their sexual orientation. The second is a heterosexual community who doesn't like gays.

Which community would be able to sustain itself independent of the other? If a trait (inborn or environmental) will not allow a species to pro-create and continue, then that trait will NOT be selected via natural selection. Eventually, that trait will no longer be in the gene pool. If a trait is not self-sustainable is destructive and thus, bad.

Separation of homosexuals and heterosexuals is not the issue. We do not want to be separated, rather we desire some sort of harmony among all members of society. I am a lesbian, and, as far as the "am I gay by some genetic code, or by choice" argument is concerned, I can look back at my life, and on all of the pain and hatred that I have experienced because of my sexual orientation, and I know that I have not "chosen" such heartache and misery. And I have tried to "force" myself to be straight. Didn't work. As a Christian, I have to therefore believe that God has created me this way, and that He has done so for a reason that is beyond my control. I realize that this is my personal belief and conviction, but I think the argument in the previous post regarding sustainment of human life has to relate to the nature/nurture controversy. Just thought that I would throw my two cents in.

Aren't there a huge number of TV shows with gay characters now? (I got rid of my TV a couple of years ago so I can't check for myself.) Doesn't Showtime have a show called "QUEER AS FOLK"? I'd say homosexuality is running rampant throughout the media.




What about states' rights? What about the right of individual communities to say "Hey, we don't want that around here"? I do not appreciate the Supreme Court making that decision for me.

Billy Jean, you take offense way too easy. I used hetero and homo in the same post in exactly the same way for the simple reason it was easier to type. Your over reaction is a good example of the defensiveness that would not serve a child well were he to witness it. Somehow I'm certain he would. Often.

My thanks to Dayton for the quick links. I'm the world's worst researcher so the help is greatly appreciated. Besides, I got tired some time ago posting sources that were only sloughed off just as yours were.

The argument about hetero vs homo couples get corrupted here by those in favor of the latter. Single parent and abusive parent situations are used as the comparison. Stats are cited saying most of the abuse comes from heteros. Well, doh! Just how large is the 'other' pool?? You crack me up with that argument.

Rumblesrip,

You're from South Carolina, huh? Sorry about Strom Thurmond. But that does explain alot about your views on the world... Sen. Thurmonds was a member of the Segregationist Party at one time and lets not forget his famous 24 hour filibuster against the intergration law.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that QUEER AS FOLK is an excellent program on Showtime. Infact, it's doing SO well in the ratings that there is going to be a spin off for us lesbians in January. It's going to be called THE "L" WORD. Will and Grace on NBC, Christopher Lowell's Show. There's gay characters on Six Feet under, Sex and The City, and All My Children, which by the way just had the FIRST day time lesbian kiss.

Let's see, as far as Magazines theres: OUT, The Advocate, Data Lounge, GaySource, GENRE,
Girlfriends: The Magazine of Lesbian Enjoyment, The Harvard Gay & Lesbian Review, The National Journal of Sexual Orientation Law, Square Pegs, Papermag, WORD.

Musicians: Elton John, Melissa Etheridge, KD Lang, Indigo Girls and George Michael just to name a few.

There's also the Log Cabin Republicans, which is a gay Republican group.

Movies: Bound, Fire, Too Wong Foo, Soldiers Girls, The Crying Game, Basic Instinct, priscilla Queen of the Desert, Bar Girls, Wild Things, Kissing Jessica Stine, Chasing Amy and Boys Don't Cry.

This weekend Atlanta Georgia is HOSTING the 2003 GAY PRIDE WEEKEND. Over 500,000 gays, lesbians, transsexuals and bisexuals will attend. We are educated, we are professionals, white collar, blue collar, rich and poor. Catholic and protestant. Jewish and Wican. atheist and muslim. Black, white and every spectrum of the RAINBOW. We are your brothers, sisters, mother, fathers, aunts, uncles, cousins, neighbors and coworkers. WE are every where AND WE'RE NOT GOING AWAY.

We're influential in the world because we ARE uniting and we have money. This is a capitalist society and we're tired of not having programing on tv that caters to us, so if SHOWTIME or any other network wants to tap in to our wallets, we'll be more than happy to spend. This is AMERICA and if enough people unite and want something to happen, it will happen.

I'm TIRED of having to be passive and beg for the "table scraps" of the rights that you toss down to me for being a homosexual. If I want to put my life partner on my health insurance, I see no problem with taking care of the woman I lOVE.

Sorry to be so militant, but you ULTRA conservatives aren't always going to be the majority in this country. African Americans fought hard for their rights and to not be persecuted and they've won. Now it's the gay communities turn.

Billy Jean, it's obvious that you care about your lifestyle and causes associated with it. But please save your speeches for some other place.

I can't think of a better place for it than a thread devoted to homosexuality.

Although, Billy Jean, I think it's rather presumptuous of you to label rumblestrip just because he's from South Carolina.

Is it possible for everyone to be civil to one another? This thread is so ugly and mean.

There is a lot of stereotyping happening on both sides of this debate.

From the link I supplied:

20 percent of sexual abuse is committed by fathers.

96 to 100 percent of accused abusers are recognizably heterosexual.

I think it’s relevant information that should be presented in a conversation about children being reared by a heterosexual couple, a heterosexual single parent or a homosexual couple or single homosexual parent.

That adolescents commit 50% of sexual abuses doesn't negate those stats listed above. It shows that more children are molested by a heterosexual person.

Almost 600,000 children are in foster homes right now and willing homosexual couples and single homosexual persons would love to adopt them but can't because some people believe homosexuality is wrong.

It’s information the people who are against homosexual adoption need to be made aware of so they can form an educated decision.

I would hope that everyone in the GLBT community and those that are supportive of their fight for diginity and their rights has a wonderful Gay Pride weekend.

"Billy Jean, it's obvious that you care about your lifestyle and causes associated with it. But please save your speeches for some other place. "

I think I recall the home page of this site saying...


"Welcome
We're excited to introduce America's Debate, a free, easy-to-use discussion board for arguing the issues, and making your point. You can come here any time and voice your opinion on politics, the news, and social issues."


... so NO, I CAN make my speaches here.  I haven't sworn or defamed anyone on this site.  And as far as Me referring to anyone  resembling a member of the Third Reich, I have apologized for that publicly. 


"I can't think of a better place for it than a thread devoted to homosexuality. "


Thank God for the people at America's Debate!


"Although, Billy Jean, I think it's rather presumptuous of you to label rumblestrip just because he's from South Carolina."


I'm sorry, it was a low blow.... but everyone in Georgia know's that USC sucks compared to UGA!  Go Dawgs!   I'm being facetious, of course.


"Is it possible for everyone to be civil to one another? This thread is so ugly and mean. "


Yes it is possible, but sometimes people have to be stern and make their point.  It is unfortunate though.  I'm sorry if I've offended open minded people on this site, I'm not an angry lesbian, just tired of being labeled "ABNORMAL" for loving another human being who just happens to be the same gender.


"There is a lot of stereotyping happening on both sides of this debate. "


Yes there is, am I'm guilty of it too. My frustration with the intollerance of some of the posters has unfortunatly lead me to this little rampage. I have alot of "good ole' boy" friends who think that I'm a hard working, honest, red blooded American, and they just happen to be conservative Republicans. They may not agree with some of my views, BUT they RESPECT me, and intern, I have a VAST amount of respect for them. My best friends are straight men. Living in Georgia, the "Bible Belt", you may think that alot of southern men must be revolted because I'm a lesbian, but infact, I love to drink, shoot pool and hang out with my conservative friends. I think that the people who are so adamently homophobic have never attempted to associate themselves with the gay community and think we're some kind of underworld organization attempting to sabatoge Traditional American Values. When infact, we are apart of thant America. The friends in MY community are very hard working, honest NORMAL Americans who just happen to be gay. I don't live In NYC or San Fransisco, but in a little college town that's surrounded by communities of typical southern people that are the salt of the earth. The gay community here is ambigious and contributes to society, like I'm sure most of the middle class American gay community do.

Listen, I work for a local cable company. I make somewhat above minimal wage and have all the same struggles and head aches of any average American. I pay my taxes, I have no criminal record and I'm not a burdan on society. Just because I happen to be a lesbian shouldn't mean I should be afraid that I might be "found out" and the reprecussions that go with intollerance. I shouldn't be subjected to discrimination. I should be able to provide health care and life insurance for my life partner if we are in a long term commited relationship, which by the way, SHOULD be recognized by the government IF "common law" marriage between straight couples are recognized. I participate in the democratic process and vote every chance I get. I LOVE the American dream! Why, if this IS a free country that we send our boys and girls over seas to fight for our freedoms that we hold so dearly, shouldn't I have the same privilages that straight people are intitled too?


One last thing


Passion51:
"Billy Jean, you take offense way too easy. I used hetero and homo in the same post in exactly the same way for the simple reason it was easier to type. Your over reaction is a good example of the defensiveness that would not serve a child well were he to witness it. Somehow I'm certain he would. Often."

I never said I wanted to be a parent. I'd make a terrible parent. I can only take kids in small doses, like to Six Flags for a day. Great Aunt though, 10 nieces and nephews and they A L L love me! Like I and many other people have said, straight OR gay, not everyone makes a good parent. So DON'T use me as an example of what a bad gay parent would be like because I NEVER claimed to want to be a parent.