Full Version: Homosexuality
QUOTE(Passion51 @ Jul 22 2003, 08:31 PM)
Sorry, but moral equivalence amounts to no morality at all. And not surprisingly, that is exactly where the liberal citiizenry is trying to take us. However, that is going to be a tougher fight than they ever imagined.
Hang tough CTE, there's a whole lot of good people who feel just like you do!
Hang tough CTE, there's a whole lot of good people who feel just like you do!
Your generalization discounts the high number of conservatives here who do not feel homosexuality is a sin or against some ephemeral moral code. I hate being left out when the blankets are being cast
QUOTE(Passion51 @ Jul 22 2003 @ 08:31 PM)
Sorry, but moral equivalence amounts to no morality at all.
That's not true at all. Just because people have different moral beliefs does not mean they have no morality at all. Just because you feel comfortable discriminating against others for harmless, inherent differences does not make it right or even rational. Besides blanket statements, you might try to avoid patently absurd ones in the future as well.
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Sorry, but moral equivalence amounts to no morality at all. And not surprisingly, that is exactly where the liberal citiizenry is trying to take us. However, that is going to be a tougher fight than they ever imagined.
Moral equivalence? You mean moral relativism? Because moral equivalence means that everyone has the same moral standing in a conflict, it doesn't even remotely relate to homosexuality. Also, if so many people don't want moral relativism, I suppose you have no quarrel with legalizing things like homosexuality, because society will be able to solve the problem without the government?
QUOTE(AGiantBean @ May 24 2003, 07:24 PM)
Do you think homosexuality is right or wrong? I myself am not a homosexual, but do not believe there to be anything wrong with it. If it makes them happy, then why shouldn't they be allowed to engage in relationships with members of the same gender?
U r right. I try to assimilate becos of my life experiences and changes in culture over the years. Being a marginalized individual, I believe there is really nothing wrong with the act, although people may think it's a socially ill (MEN). They think, it's so wrong, wrong and a social ill. Well, what do you know, does everything have to be your way again and again and again. Come of it. Although, I have yet to find many things wrong with homosexuality to conclude that it's just wrong. FIrst, I don't get their reasons to be pitied and fought for.
I say this because you look at the way most (GAY MEN) in my opinion just demean women, as in making fun of women to act out their preference of sexual partners. I don't get that one, if u love to sleep with men, fine but why do u have to put on a cheese act. I don't understand, I mean you don't see white gals who like to sleep with straight black men talking and acting like them, nor vice versa. Many, many women aren't as girlish acting as most gay men, it kinda trips me out to watch them, that in my opinion is why they are judged so much. A guy once compared his wife to his gay brother and got mad one day becos his brother roughened his hair, lil bro got cried was upset, no dinner for him. This man couldn't understand why he cried, his wife would just have said "See what you did, don't do that again"and eat dinner. I didn't know what to say but wander. I still wander.
Oh, the other thing is that if they are saying that being gay as being that straight people want everyone to be like them should be dominant then we got problems. What would the world look like (America) if there was no way to procreate naturally anymore? Those two I find very interesting. Most women
QUOTE(Ataal @ Jul 22 2003, 11:42 PM)
I think we need to get the "choice" thing out of the way.
I've heard many times, "when I was three, I felt different from the other kids, I knew then that I was gay". That one makes me get all giggly inside. I didn't know if I liked sour cream when I was three let alone whether I'm checking out the older five year old girls cuz they're just so hot!
I've heard many times, "when I was three, I felt different from the other kids, I knew then that I was gay". That one makes me get all giggly inside. I didn't know if I liked sour cream when I was three let alone whether I'm checking out the older five year old girls cuz they're just so hot!
I agree with Ataal most of the time. I was laughing cos I seriously can't remember what I liked in foods, music and friends till I was 10. Seriously and I am only 20. That's true, people tend to build up excuses, oh I had girly features since I was born, it's called uniqueness not gayness. I do strongly believe though that it is a choice, a lot of people for example love chocolate better than other stuff, meat vs fish vs chicken, do it mean they can have it? Not necessarily they've probably had enough experiences and chose not to go that route. Even in the gay community since they tend to work on their physique so much do they ever want to sleep with an average man that isn't so pretty. Yeah, that's what I thought. They exaggerate everything. Also, maybe I haven't met enough of them but living in Frisco they just exaggerate everything. Most 92% of them and the discourse is among gay men not gay women very interesting. I have solely never been able to look at a woman and think Um she definitely likes to sleep with women. When it comes to gay men that's usually the first thing they say to u before hello. Weird, love them cos they are people but at the same time don't demean others. (women in particular, don't that's just too much exaggeration)
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agree with Ataal most of the time. I was laughing cos I seriously can't remember what I liked in foods, music and friends till I was 10. Seriously and I am only 20. That's true, people tend to build up excuses, oh I had girly features since I was born, it's called uniqueness not gayness. I do strongly believe though that it is a choice, a lot of people for example love chocolate better than other stuff, meat vs fish vs chicken, do it mean they can have it? Not necessarily they've probably had enough experiences and chose not to go that route. Even in the gay community since they tend to work on their physique so much do they ever want to sleep with an average man that isn't so pretty. Yeah, that's what I thought. They exaggerate everything. Also, maybe I haven't met enough of them but living in Frisco they just exaggerate everything. Most 92% of them and the discourse is among gay men not gay women very interesting. I have solely never been able to look at a woman and think Um she definitely likes to sleep with women. When it comes to gay men that's usually the first thing they say to u before hello. Weird, love them cos they are people but at the same time don't demean others. (women in particular, don't that's just too much exaggeration)
U r right. I try to assimilate becos of my life experiences and changes in culture over the years. Being a marginalized individual, I believe there is really nothing wrong with the act, although people may think it's a socially ill (MEN). They think, it's so wrong, wrong and a social ill. Well, what do you know, does everything have to be your way again and again and again. Come of it. Although, I have yet to find many things wrong with homosexuality to conclude that it's just wrong. FIrst, I don't get their reasons to be pitied and fought for.
I say this because you look at the way most (GAY MEN) in my opinion just demean women, as in making fun of women to act out their preference of sexual partners. I don't get that one, if u love to sleep with men, fine but why do u have to put on a cheese act. I don't understand, I mean you don't see white gals who like to sleep with straight black men talking and acting like them, nor vice versa. Many, many women aren't as girlish acting as most gay men, it kinda trips me out to watch them, that in my opinion is why they are judged so much. A guy once compared his wife to his gay brother and got mad one day becos his brother roughened his hair, lil bro got cried was upset, no dinner for him. This man couldn't understand why he cried, his wife would just have said "See what you did, don't do that again"and eat dinner. I didn't know what to say but wander. I still wander.
Oh, the other thing is that if they are saying that being gay as being that straight people want everyone to be like them should be dominant then we got problems. What would the world look like (America) if there was no way to procreate naturally anymore? Those two I find very interesting. Most women
U r right. I try to assimilate becos of my life experiences and changes in culture over the years. Being a marginalized individual, I believe there is really nothing wrong with the act, although people may think it's a socially ill (MEN). They think, it's so wrong, wrong and a social ill. Well, what do you know, does everything have to be your way again and again and again. Come of it. Although, I have yet to find many things wrong with homosexuality to conclude that it's just wrong. FIrst, I don't get their reasons to be pitied and fought for.
I say this because you look at the way most (GAY MEN) in my opinion just demean women, as in making fun of women to act out their preference of sexual partners. I don't get that one, if u love to sleep with men, fine but why do u have to put on a cheese act. I don't understand, I mean you don't see white gals who like to sleep with straight black men talking and acting like them, nor vice versa. Many, many women aren't as girlish acting as most gay men, it kinda trips me out to watch them, that in my opinion is why they are judged so much. A guy once compared his wife to his gay brother and got mad one day becos his brother roughened his hair, lil bro got cried was upset, no dinner for him. This man couldn't understand why he cried, his wife would just have said "See what you did, don't do that again"and eat dinner. I didn't know what to say but wander. I still wander.
Oh, the other thing is that if they are saying that being gay as being that straight people want everyone to be like them should be dominant then we got problems. What would the world look like (America) if there was no way to procreate naturally anymore? Those two I find very interesting. Most women
If it was a choice, I would gladly be straight. It would make my life alot easier and my mom alot happier. The reason why the gay community fights for equal rights is because we're discriminated against. We cannot put our partners on our insurance, cannot marry and can have jobs withheld due to our sexual orientation, and lets not forget the possibility of being beaten to death. BTW, the majority of gay men love women, not sexually but metaphoricly. Why do you think drag queens impersonate women, it's a form of flattery. Gay men do NOT demean women!
There may be INDIVISUALS that do, but you can't lump them all into one catagory. geesh! One reason gays get a bad reputation is because of stereotypes and people that don't take the time to know what the gay community is like, therefor assuming the worse.Edited to fix quote by request - Jaime
QUOTE(ohmyheck @ Jul 23 2003, 01:39 PM)
I agree with Ataal most of the time. I was laughing cos I seriously can't remember what I liked in foods, music and friends till I was 10. Seriously and I am only 20. That's true, people tend to build up excuses, oh I had girly features since I was born, it's called uniqueness not gayness. I do strongly believe though that it is a choice, a lot of people for example love chocolate better than other stuff, meat vs fish vs chicken, do it mean they can have it? Not necessarily they've probably had enough experiences and chose not to go that route. Even in the gay community since they tend to work on their physique so much do they ever want to sleep with an average man that isn't so pretty. Yeah, that's what I thought. They exaggerate everything. Also, maybe I haven't met enough of them but living in Frisco they just exaggerate everything. Most 92% of them and the discourse is among gay men not gay women very interesting. I have solely never been able to look at a woman and think Um she definitely likes to sleep with women. When it comes to gay men that's usually the first thing they say to u before hello. Weird, love them cos they are people but at the same time don't demean others. (women in particular, don't that's just too much exaggeration)
Your post is nearly incoherant. First, could you PLEASE use real English spelling here? We are adults and don't enjoy the kiddie-internetisms.
Second, your blantant blanket statements and anectdotes do nothing to further this as a constructive debate.
Please read the rules before posting again.
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We cannot put our partners on our insurance, cannot marry and can have jobs withheld due to our sexual orientation, and lets not forget the possibility of being beaten to death
I would just like to note that I think you should be able to have insurance, you should be able to marry, and beating someone up because they're different than you are is a clear indication of someone's insecurity problems.
I think many have different definitions of the word "choice". I could cite webster's definition but I don't think it will change the way anyone here uses the term in the future. Funny thing about dictionaries, basically useless in a society that uses the words cool, hot, awesome, and radical all synonomously.
When I think of choice, I think of the fact that I have more than one option. If I only had one option, I wouldn't have to choose would I? So, admittedly it's hard for me to imagine how it relates to a situation I've never been in.
Without getting into overly graphical details, I've been asked out by guys quite a bit and have even been asked if I could be on the receiving end of oral sex and that's it, no questions asked. Maybe it's the area I live in, maybe it's that I tend to be overly nice to people that could be construed as flirtation, I don't know. I've turned them down every time though. I've asked myself, "what's the big deal? What's the difference between a guy and girl doing that to me?" I really can't come up with any logical reasons to find it wrong based on physical pleasure alone. Heck they might even do it better than most women I've known.
Ok, back on topic. I don't doubt for a second that a lesbian just finds a woman more attractive than a man, just as I find women more attractive than men. However, it begs the question, and this is purely hypothetical, if I grew up in a place where no women were present and the people that I grew up with told me that men like men and that's the way it is, would I find men attractive? Or, would I find myself completely out of place and not be interested in sexual relations period? Let's say, for the sake of argument that I did find men attractive, then when I hit the age of 30, I ventured to a place where there were women, would I still find men attractive? Or, would my coding be so strong that I would switch sides, so to speak? Obviously, we can only speculate and maybe this question deserves it's own thread, but I'd like to hear some thoughts on this regardless.
Oh ACTING on your homosexual feelings is a choice, definitely. I can choose to be celibate or live a lie and be miserable for the rest of my life. But this is a free country and if I choose to be true to my heart and commit my life and love to a woman, I should have the right too and not face persecution for that.
People who try to use the Bible as a club to beat up on anyone who is different are among the most hypocritcal of all. IF you claim to be a Christian, then go to the words of Christ for guidance. And clearly he said, "Judge not lest you be judged", and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and then there was something about judgement is not within the authority of the members of the church, but that he will decide those issues himself.
I used to attend the churches of a certain religion that was always against something or somebody, or just all other religions, such that I really didn't know what we stood FOR. After I left that church, I started noticing that altho I can't say that all of them are bigots, I can say that nearly all the bigots that I have met are members of that faith, if they will admit to their faith, as a few would not say when I asked them what faith taught them such things.
While all this criticizing is being done by them, much of the good deeds that are the bailiwick of churches go undone.
Homosexuals exist, for whatever reason, if there is one.
It is not our place to judge them. Jesus taught tolerance at least, if not acceptance.
IOW, it is none of our (the non-homosexual world) business.
I used to attend the churches of a certain religion that was always against something or somebody, or just all other religions, such that I really didn't know what we stood FOR. After I left that church, I started noticing that altho I can't say that all of them are bigots, I can say that nearly all the bigots that I have met are members of that faith, if they will admit to their faith, as a few would not say when I asked them what faith taught them such things.
While all this criticizing is being done by them, much of the good deeds that are the bailiwick of churches go undone.
Homosexuals exist, for whatever reason, if there is one.
It is not our place to judge them. Jesus taught tolerance at least, if not acceptance.
IOW, it is none of our (the non-homosexual world) business.
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Oh ACTING on your homosexual feelings is a choice, definitely
Yes, exactly. This is the point I was trying to make, many people cannot seperate the two in their minds.
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Yes, exactly. This is the point I was trying to make, many people cannot seperate the two in their minds.
Yes they can, people do it every day. It's called internal thought: "Gee, I want to do this, should I?"
edit to add:
I don't quite understand what you mean that people cannot make that distiction.
QUOTE(Billy Jean @ Jul 23 2003, 07:01 PM)
Oh ACTING on your homosexual feelings is a choice, definitely. I can choose to be celibate or live a lie and be miserable for the rest of my life. But this is a free country and if I choose to be true to my heart and commit my life and love to a woman, I should have the right too and not face persecution for that.
Acting on anything is a choice but life is made up of choices. You don't see heterosexuals claiming 'we made a choice to be heterosexual'. You don't see homosexuals claiming 'we made a choice to be homosexual'. Neither group should be required to be miserable because they are acting on their biological imperatives, nor should they be persecuted or mistreated or legally penalized because they were born the way they were born.
Homosexuals are people, just like everyone else. They deserve equal protection under the law and equal rights. That doesn't mean everyone is going to like them, you can't legislate people's beliefs or feelings, but neither should you be able to force a person to think a certain way, simply stop them from acting in an illegal or unethical manner.
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I don't quite understand what you mean that people cannot make that distiction
My bad, I should've explained what I meant in better detail. Many anti-gay people have a hard time distinguishing the difference between being gay and acting upon that. Many, even on these boards talk as if they are the same thing.
Now you and I both know that the difference is moot because as you stated earlier, life in seclusion is no way to live. Maybe it was too small a difference to even bring up. I did not mean for this to take up so much space to explain.
Don't apologize, I'm glad you fleshed out what you meant! 
Cephus, what is your avatar symbolic of? You can PM me with a reply so as not to further disrupt the topic if you'd like.
Yeah, I was kinda wondering about your avatar also.... 
CLOSED.
This thread has seen finer days. It appears we've just lost interest.
Perhaps we can pick up a similar thread another day.
This thread has seen finer days. It appears we've just lost interest.
Perhaps we can pick up a similar thread another day.
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