Hello everyone,

I am OreEle. I was wondering if there was any desire to have an inter-site debate? Namely between this site, and several others. I am trying to work it out so that we actually have as many sites as possible. Depending on how many sites we have participating, each site will likely have 4 - 8 contestants that can represent them. Debates would take place on ALL sites, not just one (that way all sites see the benefit of increased traffic). Currently, I have 2 sites that are commited, and several others that I'm talking with. This is something that would not likely start until end of Spring and early Summer.

So, anyone have anything to say?

Thank you,

Obviously, I can't speak for the powers that be, but I would be concerned about how these debates would be moderated. I know I have participated on this site primarily because of the quality of debate that occurs as a result of the moderation and the rules. What are some of the other sites you've contacted or have committed?

The moderation team will not monitor such debates. Any debates that are held here must be within our Rules and Survival Guide.

An interesting idea, I must say! But the devil's in them thar details, as entspeak indicates. (Not to mention the question of what this site's "position" would be on a particular issue.)

For those that are wondering, currently the two sites that have made soft commitments are debate.org (DDO) and onlinedebate.net (ODN).

Basically, the way a debate would work would be that 2 people (that are debating) would go back and forth for 3 - 5 rounds in a thread. After the last round (which is predetermined at the start of the debate) the debate is over and the two are judged by a panel (which is also made of members from all sites, 2 or 3 from each site, still to be determined).

The only real moderation that the staff of the site would need to do is to remove any posts made, that are not made by either of the contestants. Some debate sites, such as DDO, have a debate feature (where only the two can post), where others just use a forum thread that is specifically for the two debators (and moderators keep others from posting).

That is really the only effort that the staff needs to put in (keeping the debates clear from other posters during a debate, it can be opened up after the debate for comments and such). If the staff does not wish to do that, but the members still wish to partisipate, I'm sure we can find some kind of solution.

Also, as this is something that is being planned well in the future (and hopefully may become an annual or semi annual event), we will have time to work out the details. Right now, I'm just looking for sites that would be interested in trying it for the first time.

It seems to me that those who wish to engage in debate or discussion of a particular issue may choose for themselves where that debate/discussion takes place.

The kind of "competition" between sites suggested in this thread assumes one site has one view, and another site, a different view. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't believe this site has a "view." That's WHY it's so good.

No, not at all. Each member would be competing for themselves, but also representing their site. As people are eliminated, members from the same site may end up face each other in later rounds. Just what I've noticed on the few sites that I've been a member of over the years is that people tend to find one site and call it home. They get use to debating with the people on that site. I only wish to expand the horizons and allow them to debate individuals of other sites without having to start new at the other site as a "rookie" or "newb." I also wish to help make sites more friendly towards each other and try to reach some kind of friendship.

If the only thing keeping someone from jumping from one debate site to another is the fear of being a "newb" then I don't think that's the kind of person you'd want to debate. If there's some penalty at a debate forum for being new, then that's not the kind of site you'd want to debate on.


I don't think a competition pitting one site against another is going to accomplish that goal. And anyway, the point of a debate is not to win. I'm sorry if that's your perception. The whole idea of having a winner and loser is preposterous on its face.

I agree. Sort of. When I "lose" a debate, I learn something. When I "win" a debate," I have demonstrated the superiority of my position (and maybe helped someone else learn something along the way).

So it's not necessarily about winning or losing. But winning and losing can valuable.

Yep, true. That's easy to assess for yourself because your mind has been changed (at least a little bit). This is a big part of why I like debating, especially on . But what about all the times your mind isn't changed and neither is your opponent's?


It may only be demonstrated to yourself, while your opponent may still feel his position is superior. Debate is an exercise, not a competition. Both participants can walk away having learned something regardless of whose position is the "right" one.

This sounds like something that belongs in a high school auditorium.

Really? Search on this site for the terms "presidential debate" and you find threads with the titles: "Poll: Who Won the Final Presidential Debate?", "Poll: Who won the Vice Presidential Debate?" People on this site claims there is no winner or loser, but go through and actually read the back and forths and all you see is people claiming that their opponents have lost in some manner or another. To say no one wins a debate on a board that has threads dedicated to debating who won a nationally publicized debate is hilarious!

I think the annual intersite debate challenge is a great idea. A chance to get exposed to many other people that like to debate. It is tiresome to even read through much of the debates here. I look and look and can't find anything that isn't predictive. The same members take the very predictable positions and go after the same other members. Yawn! I think I will jump this sinking ship and see what the other more open minded sites that have thrown their hat in the ring for the intersite debate have to offer. I will continue to lurk here and occasionally drop a line such as this one just to see if the trend I have seen over the past couple years continues.

I think it's a great idea, I also think it would be fitting to include the site endorses for religion debates and who in turn endorses for political debates. There wouldn't necessarily be a problem of moderation or rules because they essentially are run the same and have the same high levels of civility. I haven't been here that long, but it seems like there's a reasonable numbers of members at debatingchristianity who are members here also, like myself, Vanguard and otseng.

I could care less whether we have intersite debates and certainly the idea of voting winners and losers seems silly but to each their own. That said, there is this interesting discussion over on onlinedebate.net involving the selective abortion of homosexual fetuses. It is based on the premise that now the orientation of a fetus can be established early and the concern that this may result in the mass abortion of fetuses because of their orientation. Of course we already have that problem with gender selection which I was surprised to see was not also brought up in the early posts that I read. In any case here is the thread.


Scubatim

I mean it's not like folks are a bunch of shut-ins. The possibility to get exposed to many other people who like to debate is no further than finding an additional debate forum. This isn't the only political forum I post at.

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

I think this idea is worth pursuing. WinePusher brought this thread over to DebatingChristianity.com, so we're already having an intersite dialogue.

I like the idea of cross pollination. And especially since AD was a major factor in me starting up DC&R, it'd be nice to do a project together.

I'm not especially warm to the idea of having a panel decide who would be the "winner" in a debate. I don't believe this is something that any forum does currently. And I think for good reason too. It's not possible to objectively determine who is the real winner in a debate. Everybody would have a subjective opinion on this. Rather, I think an intersite debate should be held just for the sake of trying it out. Nobody would be declared a winner or a loser. Readers can decide for themselves on the outcome of the debates.

Beyond what Jaime said, it's also worth pointing out that anyone representing another site who wants to post on would need to register here as a member, go through the trial perod, etc. to be able to start a debate topic. That would also apply on whichever other sites were involved, of course. Though that wouldn't be a problem; it's free, doesn't abuse the personal credentials of members, etc. and the existing members that might be selected to represent would presumbably be established members and could create the debate topics as required.

It's early days, but in principle I don't see this would be a problem.




We have high school members, some of whom might enjoy participating in this kind of debate on as well as in their auditoria. Providing it stays within the Rules of and the Survival Guide, as Jaime mentioned, how could this possibly harm if it goes ahead. It might not actively benefit us either, but I can't see any harm in it.

Or do you just think we wouldn't win? (Now where's my smilie for a sh... *ahem* coprophagic grin?).




To coin a phrase I once saw on a No Fear t-shirt, It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether I win. Nobody likes competitions when they lose them.



You're not being held here at gunpoint, you know.



You beat me to it.

Mmm... coprophagy.

I just learned a new word, I just learned a new word.

It seems to me that DDO would be the best forum to have this contest as it already has the desired structure. I understand that one may hope to increase traffic to all of the sites, but couldn't that be achieved - albeit to a lesser extent - by clearly identifying the contestants as representing a certain site? Then participating in the contest hopefully provides good exposure to the site being represented. It seems to me that it would be difficult to incorporate the formal debate style here without heavy moderation. Without someone dedicated to deleting posts and limiting the posts to a certain number of rounds, I don't think it would work here - and I think we have an answer regarding that.

Actually, I think it would be quite easy to perform...all someone would need to do is set the ground rules within the debate thread. You could even have a poll thread afterwards where people voted on the winner. It wouldn't really be any different than any other thread.

That is how I've seen it done on other forums, that run a vbulletin format. They have seperate forum section just for "official" debates (that way, people don't accidently think it is just another forum), and a moderator keeps the threads clean from additional posts, until the debate is over, then a poll can be put on it and it moved to a "completed debates" forum where people can post comments on the debate. This actually gives more freedom to the debates. On DDO, we've run into the issue that we can't do team debates, something that may be incorporated into an intersite debate, if things go well.

This is what you'd have to arrange with the powers that be and, as I stated, the site admins seem to have spoken to this point.

While I do think that it would be easy if the entire tourement took place on a single website, I do have issues in the way that appears. I really don't want this to appear in any way like I'm fishing for members, and so, I'd really like to put in the extra hours to get it to work by being on all sites.

Well, if the idea is to get people to explore and possibly join other sites - to increase traffic, then how is it not fishing for members? Unless the aim is only to increase traffic on the days of the contest and people won't have to join the other sites in order to participate. Don't get me wrong, I see no problem with fishing for members, myself - it is what it is and I don't think having it on multiple sites will change that. If the structure to hold a particular type of debate exists on a particular site, I don't think anyone's going to get bent out of shape... especially if it means not having to make changes to their site and the way it operates.

We could even, if people are interested, nominate and vote for the members of the team.

Yes...but you could do it without any moderation. Again, the thread topic should indicate the ground rules. But probably the easiest way is to have people from each site take a position on the issue. That way, there really wouldn't be any 'additional' posts to moderate. You could also have everyone posting indicate which site they belong to, and let the voter's decide at the end.

How would you pick the judges? Having taken part in official debate before, I can tell you that that is not so easy, and picking the judges is probably just as important as picking the participants. Finding unbiased judges on political issues is quite difficult.

That may be a result, but it is not the reason. Ideally, even though all participating members will join the other sites to participate (which will technically cause an increase in traffic), that will only cause a temporary effect, while everything is going on.

It is really so that people are drawn to go to all the sites and participate and view the competition debates, which will raise the traffic of all the sites and help them get more active and thus draw in more NEW members (rather then the competing members of other sites). However, members may switch from site to site, they are always free to do so. I was once a member of a site whose owner would literally go from site to site and PM all the members trying to get them to join, it was rather embarrassing.



The debates would be done as an individual 1 vs 1, rather then 1 site vs 1 site. This can cause issue if there is no moderation as 1 debate member may post an argument and while their opponent is crafting a response, other members may jump in.

Though if it is an issue where members would like to participate, but the staff cannot dedicate the resources (which is understandable, given the challenges of running a site), then I will look into what alternative solutions can be done.

Just to reiterate - we are not going to allow unmoderated topics here at

Also, please keep in mind that any 'teams' that form elsewhere are not sanctioned or endorsed by .

This site is not, nor will it ever be, about competition.

I'll throw out a proposal:

Debates would be limited to only two participants (P1, P2) from two different forums (F1, F2). An identical OP would be created on each forum. Each person would compose a post on their own forum. On the other forum, that person would only post a link to his original post.

So, P1 would post a message on F1. Then on F2, post a link back to F1. So, what you would see are alternating posts and links. Reading the opponents response would require going to the other forum.

Moderating rules would only apply to the native poster and not to a linked post. So, since P1 only posts in F1, P1 would only be subject to the rules of F1 and not F2.

There will be no panel to judge who is the "winner". Threads will simply be closed after the debates are done for readers to judge for themselves.

Ever since this thread started, I’ve had one thought.

That thought is that in intersite debates, the time and effort expended would not be worth the benefits.

offers an avenue to express all the opinions I feel any need to express and as time goes on, I feel less and less a need to let the world know my every thought.

For those of you who wish to spend an increasing amount of your days sitting behind a keyboard and monitor, be my guest.

I don't have the time or inclination.

So, count me out.

Well, I believe we have an official answer. will not be participating in an intersite debate.

You are correct.

So, why is this thread still active. No means no. It "ain't" that hard.

Hehe...

I suppose the bigger question is, if that's the case, Why are you still posting in it?

Yes, me too!! Thanks, Julian.

100% agree. If someone from another board wants to debate an member, then register for free and join the debates. Everything needed for a well-moderated debate already exists - no need to worry about any more logistics.

Isn't that pretty much just how things work currently?