Hopefully, this will be viewed as the constructive criticism it is intended to be.

I'm not a huge fan of these I'm leaving the site because it sucks or because someone did this or that threads. I feel that a concern about the atmosphere on this site can certainly be a valid thing to discuss - I believe that's why a Comments and Suggestions thread exists. So, mistakenly, I tried to treat a recent "I'm leaving" thread like one that would appear here, in this forum. But I don't feel that those types of threads are really about fixing a problem.

A member has said they were leaving with no real intentions of coming back - that was the point of the post... to explain why. Obviously, nobody wins if members leave because of the atmosphere here and I am not happy to know that this particular individual felt the way he did... nor am I proud of the notion of having contributed to an atmosphere that would make someone leave - which, I can say with certainty, I have at times. But, if a member feels that strongly about it and wishes to leave, they should leave. Contact the administrators, moderators, committee members privately and explain why so that they know and can address your concerns if possible; discuss it with whomever you like in PM's. But if a member is going to leave with no real intention of coming back, then do it. I don't know, perhaps, I just don't see the constructive point in making a public statement about why.

Hear, hear.

I agree.

I left a previous site with a quick note in their equivalent "Comments and Suggestions" area, saying that I had issues with the site moderation that could not be resolved despite some discussion via e-mail. I did return and post in that section a couple times to explain further after I was taken to task there. So I guess I would plead "guilty with an explanation" to the sort of thing entspeak refers to.

I believe that sometimes it fills the needs of a poster to express him/herself before leaving a forum such as this one. If it feels good and isn't against the rules, do it! Why should this practice be discouraged when we are encouraged to express ourselves here?

I think Raptavio did it with the hope that it might draw attention to some things that have bothered him. It may or may not do any good.

If the parting were less painful for him, I am sure that he would have done it much more quickly without a care to what his fellow posters think. But some of us do care, and I appreciate his willingness to at least let us know why.

"If it feels good and it isn't against the rules, do it!" seems to me to be part of the problem these days - it seemed to be one of the problems mentioned in that thread. But, I suppose, we all have our views on when "if it feels good and it isn't against the rules, do it!" should be discouraged and when it shouldn't.

It's possible for members to draw attention to things that bother them in this forum - that's one of the reasons it exists. I don't recall seeing a post in this forum about the atmosphere here from anyone - I have seen it brought up out of the blue in threads by people interjecting into a debate solely for the purpose of pointing to a particular example of why they don't post here much anymore and I've seen it in some farewell posts in the Casual Conversation thread - neither of which, as far as I know, are the appropriate forum to get a problem addressed. Some may feel that it's up to the staff to do something and maybe that's true to some extent. Well, posting here brings it up to them... contacting them directly brings it up to them... and I don't mean reporting posts which is - or should be - limited to perceived violations of the rules (at least that's how I've interpreted "objectionable content"), I mean messages and, if one feels particularly strongly about it, messages to all of the staff - the admins, the moderators, the committee members. Given those options to discuss and see what can be done to fix the problem exist, I just feel that saying it as one leaves with no real intention of coming back is not really about fixing those problems and has no constructive purpose.

I do not doubt that leaving a site after years of participation and having made friends is painful. Nor do I believe that expressing constructive criticism about the manner in which people leave means one doesn't care that they left or about why they left.

Please don't think that I am criticizing you for your criticism. If Rap has left for sure that's one thing. But I suspect that he is going to lurk from time to time as many of us have.
I do agree that after several pages in a "farewell forum," it does seem like someone isn't leaving. I chalk it up to a certain reluctance. I have heard that there are few forums that are comparable to this one as far as its good points, namely, a certain level of civility (if only for lack of use of forbidden words sometimes). For that reason I tend to stick around here and avoid most written attacks based on my liberal perspective. I don't need Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck wannabes giving me negative feedback.

What I do object to is someone saying, "You're leaving? So don't let the screen door hit your butt on the way out" or something to that effect, but that's probably because I am fond of Raptavio and I will miss him on this forum. I'm also going to miss vsrenard. These are good posters.

I used a casual conversation thread to say I was going to take some indefinite time off. I got some kind responses, and it helped me return to the forum when I was ready (which didn't take very long at all). But then I've been here since 2003, and it just feels right to stay here, much better than the prospect of getting established elsewhere and getting used to a new crop of people.

We had one poster who demanded that he be banned from this site because he didn't want to be part of anymore. It wasn't enough for him to vote with his keyboard, i.e., leave for another forum. So one of the administrators obliged him by banning him after he became insulting enough in his posts. So there is more than one way to leave. The more friends we make here, the more difficult it becomes for us to "fold [our] tents, like the Arabs, [a]nd quietly steal away” (with apologies to Longfellow), that's all. And then I think some folks want to be dissuaded from leaving, too, when they start farewell threads. Just sayin'.

I can explain why I hang around this place and can somewhat understand why others might want to explain why they are leaving. What I don't understand is why anyone would think either way is wrong.

It's a bit odd how emotions get stimulated in online forums, but this has always been the case. I've felt it too. I guess it's like shouting at the TV or getting all disgusted by a radio broadcast. On the positive side, it's why tearjerker movies/books/shows jerk tears. We are (including myself) suckers for illusions.

We were talking the other day about Glee and how much of it is overdubbed, how many of the dancers have stand-ins and how the scenes might be stitched together from several takes. The show never does outtakes, as opposed to Jackie Chan flicks. There aren't blooper vids available (to my knowledge), and this has to be due to the illusions that make the show a success. Don't break them!

Well, that's why pretty much all of us have to explain ourselves in online forums. We buy into the illusion that we're part of an actual community. We think we know each other by what we write. We make assumptions based on the labels selected for things like political orientation. It's very much like becoming friends with characters that pro actors play. Still, it's not at all like knowing the actual actors.

When Raptavio announced his divorce from , I thought, "Okay. We don't meet his expectations. Oh well, best of luck to you!"

The insistence of another poster for being banned seemed to me to be a setup. See? bans conservatives! It's just as bad as conservative sites banning liberals! Ha ha.

Then came a rash of false equivalences. Maybe there's a connection. Maybe it's just evidence of group-think. Whatever it is, it sure is entertaining. That's the bottom line for both Glee and to me. Once it becomes a drag, I'll be gone.

And like I said, I don't feel that it's really about fixing the problems... there are avenues one can take to try to do that, both public and private. It comes across, in my opinion, as whining on the way out; which, I feel, doesn't solve anything. And, I know that may sound harsh, but given that rarely, if at all, have I seen or read that such posters have tried these other avenues before making their critical farewell posts, I can't think of another way to accurately describe it. And, if saying you're leaving with no intention of coming back is a passive aggressive plea to be dissuaded from leaving, I'm not a real fan of that, either.


As I said, I just don't find it constructive. But, let's be clear, I'm not saying I'm not a fan of farewell posts... I'm referring to a very particular kind.

I haven’t quit and probably never will, at least completely.

Yet as the B. B. King song goes – “The Thrill is Gone.”

I’ve been here nearly seven years. While I used to find time to research topics and present cogent responses, I find little new that warrants that much work.

Further, I don't find much satisfaction in telling people about every thought that runs through my head.

Just last night, I finished reading David Nasaw’s mammoth biography of Andrew Carnegie.
http://www.amazon.com/Andrew-Carnegie-Davi...7041&sr=1-3

Toward the end of the book, Nasaw says that as Carnegie grew older, he became something of a parody of himself. I have no desire to do that, but there are people here who are doing just that. Their positions are so predictable, that one doesn’t even have to read the post to know what they are thinking. Still the posts flow, sometimes on every topic available often to the point of ad nauseam.

So, while I am not quitting, I am scaling back my efforts here.

I am building databases for my music collection – 45’s, vinyl LPs, cassette tapes and CDs. This is taking much time I used to dvote to this site.

I'll drop in occasionally, especially for birthday threads.