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America's Debate > Archive > Political Debate Archive > [A] General Political Debate
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Thomas
Is America a corporate oligarchical political system or it is a representative democracy?
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Amlord
Neither, it is a representative republic.

The corporations cannot control things, since they cannot vote. Until they restrict people's right to vote, there can be no containing the (at least possible) will of the people.

If enough people got PO'd, then ANYONE could win the next election, regardless of what advertisements were on TV.
Hugo
Classical liberals recognized that government would naturally oppress the weak for the benefit of the strong. The modern liberal has forgotten this. If corporations are too powerful it is only because government is too powerful.
Bill55AZ
QUOTE(amlord @ Jun 2 2003, 03:07 PM)

The corporations cannot control things, since they cannot vote.  Until they restrict people's right to vote, there can be no containing the (at least possible) will of the people.

FIRST POST BY A NEW GUY, who will be first to draw blood, my blood that is.

I believe corporations can vote, by purchasing or "renting" our elected officials.
Perhaps if there were severe criminal penalties for this kind of thing, it would stop. On the other hand, some of the corporate leaders have said that they resent some of the politicians coming to them and "extorting" contributions. So it seems that there are criminals in both camps.
Amlord
QUOTE(Bill55AZ @ Jun 2 2003, 03:22 PM)
QUOTE(amlord @ Jun 2 2003, 03:07 PM)


The corporations cannot control things, since they cannot vote.  Until they restrict people's right to vote, there can be no containing the (at least possible) will of the people.

FIRST POST BY A NEW GUY, who will be first to draw blood, my blood that is.

I believe corporations can vote, by purchasing or "renting" our elected officials.
Perhaps if there were severe criminal penalties for this kind of thing, it would stop. On the other hand, some of the corporate leaders have said that they resent some of the politicians coming to them and "extorting" contributions. So it seems that there are criminals in both camps.

A corporation might be able to persuade a candidate with campaign contributions. That does not ensure (in any form) election of said candidate.

There are so many competing issues and industries that any (viable) candidate will garner support from at least some of them. Does that mean they bought the election, since both sides do it?

Votes are still cast by individuals. Hell, if you could convice 90% of the "poor" to vote for you, you would be guaranteed to win any election. These people don't vote (largely). If they did, they could keep power forever (virtually) and shape the country into the vision of what they want.
Rancid Uncle
QUOTE
A corporation might be able to persuade a candidate with campaign contributions. That does not ensure (in any form) election of said candidate.

There are so many competing issues and industries that any (viable) candidate will garner support from at least some of them. Does that mean they bought the election, since both sides do it?

They give money to both sides. There is no candidate that agrees with me. I can't vote to create a patients bill of rights, I can only choose which corrupt idiot gets elected.
quarkhead
QUOTE(amlord @ Jun 2 2003, 12:46 PM)

A corporation might be able to persuade a candidate with campaign contributions.  That does not ensure (in any form) election of said candidate.

There are so many competing issues and industries that any (viable) candidate will garner support from at least some of them.  Does that mean they bought the election, since both sides do it?

Votes are still cast by individuals.  Hell, if you could convice 90% of the "poor" to vote for you, you would be guaranteed to win any election.  These people don't vote (largely).  If they did, they could keep power forever (virtually) and shape the country into the vision of what they want.

That said, and it was said well, porkbarrell legislation is often drafted by corporations, a level of influence most individuals do not have. If you are writing a bill about air pollution regulation, for example, consulting primarily lobbyists from polluting industries does not usually result in a law which reflects the will of the voters.
Nu Marx
The U.S. is governed by a corporate oligarchy disguised as a people's republic.
Julian
I've often wondered what might happen in democracies if corporations (entities that pay taxes, after all - at least they are supposed to) were given some electoral representation, in return for banning all corporate political lobbying (and donations too, if the parties ever became funded through taxation).

My guess is that the corporations would resist this very hard, as they would calculate that they get more benefit through lobbying (which they can do all day, every day, with every prospective candidate and elected representative, targeted to the specific issues that have the most impact on them, if they have the money) than they would through exercising one vote every five years or so for (maybe one prospective candidate in one party- my distant understanding of the US electoral process - and) one current representative, and not having any significant influence in between, as most voters do.

Which makes me think that it might be a good idea to work towards. It would need some serious thought on how to create a system that is fair to both individual voters and the corporate ones, but I tend to think it would be worth the effort for the benefits everyone would get from cleaning up the corporate-political Augean stables.
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