With the recent events in California on Gov. Gray Davis I thought this would be an interesting topic of debate.

Do you think the attempt to recall Gov. Davis sets a good or bad example for the country?

Here is a link to a story if you have not heard about it yet.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/ca/...p-7054233c.html

I think california is in need of some pretty bitter medicine. I don't think anyone serving as California governor, at this time, would be popular. I say wait for his term to expire.

What I find very interesting about this is that nobody seems to be saying that Davis has done anything illegal or immoral; it's just that his policies are very unpopular. This suggests that any politician with very low popularity is in danger of being removed from office ahead of time. Although I imagine that every one of us can think of a politician we would like to see removed from office, this gives me a chill. How effective can any politician be if it is necessary to please the majority at all times? There is already a lot of complaining about the effect of polls on policy decisions; if recalls based on popularity become a trend, this would be an even greater concern.

As a native Californian (now in Tennessee for more than a decade), I might add that I suspect that this recall effort will fizzle out. However, if this sort of thing were to happen anywhere, it seems likely it will be in California. It has also been said that California tends to set trends for the rest of the nation.

The basis that the group that is leading this recall petition is that Gov. Davis misled the public to get elected. Even the local teachers union is behind this action in California.

Davis is in a unique position. It kind of like that Chris Rock routine when he speculates about what kind of a loser Marion Berry must have run against. (He speculated that the other guy must have trumped Berry's cocaine use with a heroine addiction.)

California is in a financial mess and many people are mad at Davis for threatening to raise taxes. His ship was wrecking headed into the last election but the Republican nominee was a businessman whose credibility was ruined mid-election by a Enron-ish scandal.

Link

This is not a real credible source but you get the picture. So Davis was reelected even though he wasn't very popular. So yes he could be removed by a recall.


Edited to show momentum in this article.
Recall picks up steam

And for star power, oooh.
Schwarzenegger, sounding like a candidate, calls for voter revolution

Come see the new political block buster.
Total Recall, Dude! Hasta La Vista Gray.
Punariffic

From last report I herd off the radio, the petition required some 800 thousand signatures, it has roughly 700+ thousand already and has until september to get the rest. I doubt this will fizzle.

Bring on the Terminator!

The idea of voter recall (or any sort of binding public petition device) is an extremely dangerous one in a democracy. Here's a quirky example:

A few years back in the last Canadian election the newly formed Alliance Party (also known as the Canadian Reform Alliance Party... go figure?!) suggested that any petition that is signed by 3% of a constituency (in the case of a federal government petition 3% of the country, etc.) would be legally binding. To highlight the ridiculousness of this a TV show called This Hour Has 22 Minutes started a petition demanding that Stockwell Day (the leader of the Alliance) have his name legally changed to Doris Day. Not surprisingly this petition actually achieved the 3% threshold, demonstrating how dangerous the concept was.

Now I'm sure some of you (especially the anti-'nucks out there) are asking what this has to do with the Gray Davis situation. The answer is quite simple. The voting public is more easily roused by a gimmick than political necessity. In a representative democracy we elect representatives for two reasons:

1. There are two many people for everyone to have a say
2. The people are a "horde" which moves en masse.

Every four years we sit calm them down and say "ok, pick one person to speak for the lot of ye'." By initiating public recall you are potentially crippling government by making it difficult for politicians to make difficult decisions.

All I can say is ditto.

The recall petition if I understand the process, will if successful result in not automatic removal, but a recall election in which Davis is eligible to run to try to keep his job. This is analogous to a vote of "no confidence" in a parliamentary system. It will succeed this time, but only because this is a horrendously unpopular governor (70+% disapproval). I fail to see how this in any way bad for democracy. This clown needs to go, and the ability to remove him is a good thing, and a democratic thing.

Exactly! I want our politicians to feel pressure, I want our politicians to know they are there for US not for them, that is what PUBLIC SERVICE is.

If our system was like anything described by your canuk ways I would have to agree that would be a dangerous thing. However, it is not. As Izdaari said, this will initiate a new election. One that Gov. Davis can try to run and win.

I want our politians even more so in this day and time to fear and know they can be replaced if the mess up royally. Accountability is on the upswing.

By the people, for the people.

If Californians want him out, so be it. He's gone. "You're Fired" is the message the people are going to send to Davis.

The PEOPLE elect politicians. If the PEOPLE want him gone, there is nothing anyone can or should do about it.

Doesn't sound like Davis has a lot of friends right now. He had better find some .... and soon

--cheers

I don't think Gray Davis isn't going to be recalled. What he should do is resign and have the lieutenant governor, Cruz Bustamante, replace him. That way the republicans can't steal the governorship and California has the its first Hispanic governor.

RU,

Very interesting idea. Send it forward. If Clinton had done that Gore might be president today.

Just out of curiosity, since the PEOPLE did not elect George Bush, does that mean that the PEOPLE should put Gore in office instead?


As for the issue at hand, I honestly don't see anything wrong with recalloing Gray Davis, but I doubt he'll lose again. I mean, he one once, why not agian?

Could this horse be anymore dead?

I think Gray Davis needs to be recalled because California Deficit Worst In United States. Under Gray Davis, California went from a surplus to a record $34.8 Billion deficit - more than the deficits of all other states combined and Davis Hid The Facts From Voters Last November
Because California voters were deceived by Davis last November, they did not have a chance to learn how bad things were. Davis understated the deficit, understated state spending, and misled the public about the state of our economy. Now the facts are in, and Davis deserves to be recalled for misleading the public.

http://www.rescuecalifornia.com/

BTW: Has a Governor ever been recalled before?

Hmmmm, that's not enough to recall him. In fact, I really could not find one reason why we should change horses mid-stream here. I met the petition lady at the supermarket - she had five reasons, including the most prominent one stated above, that he had lied about the economy during his campaign. Insufficient reason for recall, IMHO. Now, perhaps the $50 billion dollar S&L crisis, a blatant rip-off of the American people via Neil Bush and company, discovered soon after Geo Sr. took office might be better grounds for dismissal of a public official, but there is an awful lot of drum-beating by radio talk show hosts and other conservatives over this; too much to believe that this would stand on its own legs.

I don't blame Gray Davis for the deficit, either. Remember that silicon valley and San Francisco suffered the most in the dotcom bust, losing billions in tax revenue for CA.

I think it's a manipulative trick on the part of neocons to put Sylvester Stallone in office. Or was that Rutger Hauer? Nick Nolte?