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nighttimer
Because to them attention is like air, two of the Right's leading pin-ups, Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin shared their political insights with the rest of America this week.

After the third and final debate between President Obama and former Governor Mitt Romney, Coulter tweeted, I highly approve of Romney's decision to be kind and gentle to the retard.

Coulter has been condemned as being thoughtless and heartless by families with special needs children. Naturally, she has thus far refused to apologize.

As if someone like Coulter who craves attention like a crack whore craves her next hit could possibly be shamed or embarrassed by her brain-dead remarks.

Not to be outdone, Sarah Palin, the resident Fox News commentator whose political expertise hinges on losing a presidential race and quitting her job governor of Alaska, popped off about the current event that has conservatives in a mouth-foaming frenzy, the attacks on the American embassy in Benghazi and what and when the Obama Administration knew about it being a terrorist attack.

Palin wrote on her Facebook page, "Why the lies? Why the cover up? Why the dissembling about the cause of the murder of our ambassador on the anniversary of the worst terrorist attacks on American soil? We deserve answers to this. President Obama's shuck and jive shtick with these Benghazi lies must end."

I don't buy for one second that even the spectacularly stupid Sarah Palin is unaware of the racial connotations of a phrase like "shuck and jive." She knows exactly what it means and that is why she said it.

The Urban Dictionary defines the term as: To "shuck and jive" originally referred to the intentionally misleading words and actions that African-Americans would employ in order to deceive racist Euro-Americans in power, both during the period of slavery and afterwards. The expression was documented as being in wide usage in the 1920s, but may have originated much earlier.

"Shucking and jiving" was a tactic of both survival and resistance. A slave, for instance, could say eagerly, "Oh, yes, Master," and have no real intention to obey. Or an African-American man could pretend to be working hard at a task he was ordered to do, but might put up this pretense only when under observation. Both would be instances of "doin' the old shuck 'n jive."

It has been adopted into non-Afroamerican speech, with a reference to behavior adopted in order to avoid criticism.


Nothing like a tasty little bit of race bait just before the election. rolleyes.gif

The questions for debate:

1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"

2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a"shuck and jive schtick?"

3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?

4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?
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Amlord
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Oct 25 2012, 09:02 AM) *
Nothing like a tasty little bit of race bait just before the election. rolleyes.gif


Yes, but the question is: why are you engaging in it?

1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"

Ann Coulter has written "Treason" "Demonic" "Godless" "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)". I highly doubt she's going to apologize for the term "retard".

2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a"shuck and jive schtick?"

I'm pretty sure I've heard Sarah Palin use the term "shuck and jive" before. Just because something can have a racist connotation doesn't mean it does have a racist connotation.

3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?

Calling the President a retard is stupid and is simply Ann Coulter's way of being inflammatory. "Shucking and jiving" is actually a pretty close description of the last four years. The President doesn't take responsibility for much of anything. In fact, the President's own Press Secretary has used the term last year. I guess Jay Carney is a closet racist too.

Oh and you didn't emphasize "schtick" which is well known to be a put down to African American Jews. rolleyes.gif Why is Palin emphasizing the President's Jewishness? Oh wait, she's not.

It isn't "offensive". This is politics for goodness sake. Grow a thicker skin.

4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?

No, they don't. Except to liberals who apparently hang on their every word and tweet.
Vanguard
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Oct 25 2012, 01:02 PM) *
Because to them attention is like air, two of the Right's leading pin-ups, Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin shared their political insights with the rest of America this week.

After the third and final debate between President Obama and former Governor Mitt Romney, Coulter tweeted, I highly approve of Romney's decision to be kind and gentle to the retard.

Coulter has been condemned as being thoughtless and heartless by families with special needs children. Naturally, she has thus far refused to apologize.

As if someone like Coulter who craves attention like a crack whore craves her next hit could possibly be shamed or embarrassed by her brain-dead remarks.

Not to be outdone, Sarah Palin, the resident Fox News commentator whose political expertise hinges on losing a presidential race and quitting her job governor of Alaska, popped off about the current event that has conservatives in a mouth-foaming frenzy, the attacks on the American embassy in Benghazi and what and when the Obama Administration knew about it being a terrorist attack.

Palin wrote on her Facebook page, "Why the lies? Why the cover up? Why the dissembling about the cause of the murder of our ambassador on the anniversary of the worst terrorist attacks on American soil? We deserve answers to this. President Obama's shuck and jive shtick with these Benghazi lies must end."

I don't buy for one second that even the spectacularly stupid Sarah Palin is unaware of the racial connotations of a phrase like "shuck and jive." She knows exactly what it means and that is why she said it.

The Urban Dictionary defines the term as: To "shuck and jive" originally referred to the intentionally misleading words and actions that African-Americans would employ in order to deceive racist Euro-Americans in power, both during the period of slavery and afterwards. The expression was documented as being in wide usage in the 1920s, but may have originated much earlier.

"Shucking and jiving" was a tactic of both survival and resistance. A slave, for instance, could say eagerly, "Oh, yes, Master," and have no real intention to obey. Or an African-American man could pretend to be working hard at a task he was ordered to do, but might put up this pretense only when under observation. Both would be instances of "doin' the old shuck 'n jive."

It has been adopted into non-Afroamerican speech, with a reference to behavior adopted in order to avoid criticism.


Nothing like a tasty little bit of race bait just before the election. rolleyes.gif

The questions for debate:

1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"

As a kid I heard it all the time and even used it myself. I no longer like it and wish public figures would no longer use it. She should simply stop using the word and forget about apologies. The political world no longer accepts apologies for what they are anyway. It would simply become a farce and fodder for the next joke... sad.gif

2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a"shuck and jive schtick?"

I use this phrase now more than I ever did though still not that frequently. I like it and really don't care when its used unless it becomes apparent it is used too frequently in the context of when speaking of someone black. What bothers me about Palin's use of the phrase is that on Benghazi Obama really isn't shucking and jiving in the best sense of the phrase and least not yet anyway. This prompts me to wonder if Palin is deliberately using this in a racially derogatory way. Shame on her if that's the case. He really isn't "shucking and jiving" on this one but rather avoiding what is now becoming a bigger scandal than what I'm sure he wanted just before election day. He and his team have really blown it on this one and now the hens are coming home to roost. I would imagine Biden if asked would be the one to shuck and jive his way through this cover up. We'll see.

3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?

The former - yes, and the latter - it depends.

4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?

I like much of Coulter's schtick though admittedly I haven't heard from her much. Her influence isn't any more or less than the talking head liberal pundits on the other side of the fence who also blather on about their "pet" thoughts. As for Palin, her prose has never resonated with me and I'll switch the channel when she's on.
vsrenard
1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"

Should she? Yes. Will she? No.

2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a"shuck and jive schtick?"

I don't know. "Shuck and jive" is not something I've ever said, nor have I heard anyone say it personally. Thus from my perspective, it comes off as racist. However, it may be a phrase others use in a non-racist way. However, Palin has said many inflammatory, racist comments before so it would not surprise me if this is an incidence of race-baiting.

3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?

Yes to the former. To the latter, it depends. Criticism can be fair but put together in a poor way.

4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?

Anyone who has a voice in national media has the potential to wield influence, but I'd say these two have past their expiry date. Their comments are incredibly predictable and sadly lacking in depth or nuance.
Paladin Elspeth
QUOTE(vsrenard @ Oct 25 2012, 10:40 AM) *
1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"

Should she? Yes. Will she? No.

2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a"shuck and jive schtick?"

I don't know. "Shuck and jive" is not something I've ever said, nor have I heard anyone say it personally. Thus from my perspective, it comes off as racist. However, it may be a phrase others use in a non-racist way. However, Palin has said many inflammatory, racist comments before so it would not surprise me if this is an incidence of race-baiting.

3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?

Yes to the former. To the latter, it depends. Criticism can be fair but put together in a poor way.

4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?

Anyone who has a voice in national media has the potential to wield influence, but I'd say these two have past their expiry date. Their comments are incredibly predictable and sadly lacking in depth or nuance.

1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"

Ann Coulter would have a lot of apologizing to do if she suddenly became concerned that offensive remarks hurt other people. I expect a huge meteor to hit the earth before she ever apologizes for what she says. If she did apologize, she would be damaging her bread-and-butter career of publicly putting down people and maybe have to earn a more honest living.

2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a "shuck and jive schtick?"
I think so. But maybe she should just go back to shooting wolves from helicopters when she's not at her hair appointment. What's "sauce for the [gander] is sauce for the [goose]," after all. And maybe the media should stop publicizing every dumb and offensive remark that so-called celebrities utter.

3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?

It is considered offensive by people who have special needs kids to have their children called "retards." Call a non-mentally challenged student a "retard" and you stand to get a middle finger flipped at you, accompanied by some profanity suggesting that you do something to yourself. That is not generally considered to be a friendly response. And even some mentally-challenged students will respond in like manner. Even Dick Cheney did that to a Senator on the Senate floor once.

The Harvard Law Review would be surprised to find that a mentally-challenged student was elected President of their Law Review and then became a university professor of law.

It is outside the ethnic, cultural background of Ms. White Bread Palin to use the term "shucking and jiving" when referring to people with whom she usually associates, so I'm concluding that when referring to the President, she chose to use different language to describe his activities. Maybe she's still hurting from 2008; I don't know. Getting in a jab probably makes her feel better. She's lucky there's someone willing to publicize her remarks.

Now maybe if John McCain had become President and then died, Sarah Palin might be grating cheese for her macaroni and wearing an apron while she spoke to the press about something similiar to the attacks in Benghazi, but I doubt that even she could be counted upon to be fulfilling a stereotypical female housewife role while President. And wouldn't people call it misogynistic if some cynical pundit suggested that she would!

Sarah Palin was merely trying to find a clever way to say that Obama was lying, and instead, she just found an offensive way.

So no, it isn't fair. But it is what it is, and these Republicans and self-identified conservatives don't really care who they offend or how, just as long as they get on those airwaves with what they have to say. Perhaps it is better to let it stand than to attempt some lame "IF I offended somebody" crap. Better to see them for who and what they really are: spiteful and vindictive.

4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?

They still have soapboxes for some reason, but they are definitely on the periphery, and were it not for FOX News neither of them would be heard very often at all.

-----------------------------------

And just to spite Ms. Coulter and Ms. Palin with their comments on the President being "retarded" and "shuckin' and jivin'," let me include today's headline:

Colin Powell Endorses Obama again, http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2012...679z4dDOzsFq0xY
Dingo
1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"
That's her bread and butter. That's the kind of thing she gets paid handsomely to do. Rush Limbaugh etc. etc. There are tons of these folks enriching themselves in this fashion. I've been on plenty of forums and one thing I've learned is republican conservatives consistently get excited and high off her verbal fumes.

2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a"shuck and jive schtick?"
What else has she got? She didn't even realize North Korea was not an ally. Thanks McCain for being willing to put this public policy ignoramus one heart beat away from the presidency. This is the guy who makes "Security" his byword.

3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?
A one word answer to that should suffice - context.

4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?
Probably, but I couldn't tell you in what way except to energize their conservative republican base. Let's just say they know how to get a lot of media attention and it is not by sober disinterested analysis.

A thought. Too bad we can't arrange for some folks to decamp to a space colony before we self-destruct. It would be nice to have somebody left to work on the question that given the mountain of disreputable folks who attained such persistent political popularity, was perhaps democracy not a very good fit for homo sapien sapiens?
AuthorMusician
1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"

In a polite society, sure. However, she has sunk to the bottom of the pit and can't help herself any longer. She has the horrible condition of having lost all sensibility about nearly everything. However, she still knows how to make the big bucks by trashing liberals and Democrats, and pretty much everybody but Republicans.

2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a"shuck and jive schtick?"

Palin is worse off than Coulter. Still, both roll in the bucks, so for a certain segment of the political spectrum, they are really smart. I see it as lucky, since the long con requires more skill than either possesses.

3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?

They are both meaningless expressions by today's vernacular, one being from the grade school playground and the other from history. They were both used specifically to be offensive, but both offenders missed the mark by several country miles.

4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?

Yeah, about as relevant as a talking yard sign. Not quite there, but close.

When I first heard about these comments, my immediate thought was. "Sticks and stones, but really? Retard and shuck/jive? Is that all that's in there?" These two ladies have hurt themselves more than their target. Then I thought, "Stupid is as stupid does."

And there's no cure for stupid. They are both stuck with it from here on out.
nighttimer
QUOTE(Amlord @ Oct 25 2012, 09:50 AM) *
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Oct 25 2012, 09:02 AM) *
Nothing like a tasty little bit of race bait just before the election. rolleyes.gif


Yes, but the question is: why are you engaging in it?


Don't ask an asinine question that has nothing to do with the topic, Amlord. Set aside your slobbering fanboy worship of Coulter and Palin for a moment and perhaps you'll notice there was no racial baiting by me in the OP. Until you produce evidence to the contrary we can ignore that outburst and move on to something actually relevant to the debate.

QUOTE(Amlord)
1. Should Ann Coulter apologize for anyone offended by her description of Obama as a "retard?"

Ann Coulter has written "Treason" "Demonic" "Godless" "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)". I highly doubt she's going to apologize for the term "retard".


And you're okay with that? ermm.gif

QUOTE(Amlord)
2. Is Sarah Palin race-baiting by describing the president's responses to the Benghazi incident as a"shuck and jive schtick?"

I'm pretty sure I've heard Sarah Palin use the term "shuck and jive" before. Just because something can have a racist connotation doesn't mean it does have a racist connotation.


Which also means it could have a racist connotation and even Sarah Palin knows it. If that's the best defense you can offer for Palin's race-baiting, it's no defense at all.
QUOTE(Amlord)
3. Is describing someone as a "retard" or "shucking and jiving" offensive or fair criticism?

Calling the President a retard is stupid and is simply Ann Coulter's way of being inflammatory. "Shucking and jiving" is actually a pretty close description of the last four years. The President doesn't take responsibility for much of anything. In fact, the President's own Press Secretary has used the term last year. I guess Jay Carney is a closet racist too.


Palin citing someone else using a derogatory phrase doesn't make her usage any more acceptable. If anything, when you consider how she got her panties in a wad when jumped all over former White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel for calling unspecified liberal Democrats "f***ing retarded" and demanded Obama fire him, why is she not joining in the criticism of Coulter when she specially called the president "retarded."

I'll tell you why. Because Palin is a rank hypocrite. She'll never criticize Coulter for doing the exact same thing as Emanuel, because Coulter is on her team.

Just so you're clear on this, "shucking and jiving" is a racist description, Amlord. Of the last four years and anything else. You wouldn't say it about a White politician and saying it about a Black one definitely makes it so.

QUOTE(Amlord)
Oh and you didn't emphasize "schtick" which is well known to be a put down to African American Jews. rolleyes.gif Why is Palin emphasizing the President's Jewishness? Oh wait, she's not.


I'm not Jewish and I will leave it to someone who is to decide how they feel about Sarah "Blood Debt" Palin once again biting off Yiddish terminology.

However, I am Black, and I can speak with some authority to the offensiveness of a White person telling a Black person not to "shuck and jive."

QUOTE(Amlord)
It isn't "offensive". This is politics for goodness sake. Grow a thicker skin.


So if Coulter and Palin decide to simply cut to the chase and call Obama a "nigger" that wouldn't be offensive to you. Just politics. Got it.

Growing a thicker skin is not a defense against incivility, ignorance and race-based hatred as exemplified by two of the Right wing's favorite centerfolds. If calling someone a "retard" isn't offensive, are we now free on ad.gif to dismiss any debate we disagree with as "retarded" and the debater as a "retard?"

QUOTE
4. As neither Coulter or Palin hold any office or wield any influence are they relevant to this election?

No, they don't. Except to liberals who apparently hang on their every word and tweet.


Liberals aren't buying Coulter or Palin's cruddy little books. Conservatives are and especially White conservative men. They always whine about how mean liberals are, but don't have any problem with it when it's one of their own engaging in such vile and disgusting speech.

You say Obama is guilty of "shucking and jiving." I say Palin is guilty of finally being open with her bigotry. Coulter? We all knew she was a publicity whore who will say anything as long as it gets her a little attention. And sells another crappy book to another White conservative.
Aquilla
Somebody's grumpy in Obamaville today. hmmm.gif Wonder what it could be. Maybe that old shuck ain't jiving quite as well as it was four years ago. So, let's try that race card thing again. sleeping.gif

For the record, I did use that term to describe Bill Clinton from time to time back in my debate days on AOL although I really preferred the "shazamm defense" as a description of his actions when he got caught in a lie (which happened nearly every day). I dunno, probably offended a bunch of southern white gas station guys who joined the Marines with that one. ermm.gif

As far as Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin are concerned.... who really cares?

Aquilla
AuthorMusician
QUOTE(Aquilla @ Oct 26 2012, 02:27 AM) *
Somebody's grumpy in Obamaville today. hmmm.gif Wonder what it could be. Maybe that old shuck ain't jiving quite as well as it was four years ago. So, let's try that race card thing again. sleeping.gif

For the record, I did use that term to describe Bill Clinton from time to time back in my debate days on AOL although I really preferred the "shazamm defense" as a description of his actions when he got caught in a lie (which happened nearly every day). I dunno, probably offended a bunch of southern white gas station guys who joined the Marines with that one. ermm.gif

As far as Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin are concerned.... who really cares?

Aquilla


Yep, not much care at all, not even from the peanut gallery. It's really sad to see minds go to waste like this, although Palin didn't have much to lose in the first place. Coulter is a different story with the same sad ending. I'm having a hard time envisioning them as senior citizens, and I hope that's not a premonition. Even nattering nabobs deserve a shot at old age and its accompanying humiliations.
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nighttimer
QUOTE(Aquilla @ Oct 26 2012, 02:27 AM) *
Somebody's grumpy in Obamaville today. hmmm.gif Wonder what it could be. Maybe that old shuck ain't jiving quite as well as it was four years ago. So, let's try that race card thing again. sleeping.gif


Not grumpy. Just tired of how racially-loaded invective and hatred is vomited up by publicity whores like Coulter and Palin while supposedly respectable and mainstream conservatives simply wave it away as insignificant.

Coulter has boasted that because of "her looks" she can get away with saying things a conservative male can't. Maybe so. It certainly appears conservative men are so enamored of limp blonde locks, skinny legs and a protruding Adam's apple that they fall silent in sheer awe of the Coultergeist's "hotness."

Suckers. dry.gif

QUOTE(Aquilla)
As far as Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin are concerned.... who really cares?


Obviously you don't (no surprise there). You're fine with ignorance and bigotry as long as it comes from your team, but as far as the Hillbilly from Wasilla goes, John Franklin Stephens does care. The 30-year-old Special Olympian with Down's Syndrome cares quite a bit.

QUOTE
After I saw your tweet, I realized you just wanted to belittle the president by linking him to people like me. You assumed that people would understand and accept that being linked to someone like me is an insult and you assumed you could get away with it and still appear on TV.

I have to wonder if you considered other hateful words but recoiled from the backlash.

Well, Ms Coulter, you, and society, need to learn that being compared to people like me should be considered a badge of honor.

No one overcomes more than we do and still loves life so much
.
thumbsup.gif
lo rez
To stop these monsters one-two-three
Here's a fresh new way that's ttrouble free
It's got Paul Anka's guarantee!
(Guarantee void in Tennessee)

Just don't look. Just don't look.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(lo rez @ Oct 26 2012, 09:47 AM) *
To stop these monsters one-two-three
Here's a fresh new way that's ttrouble free
It's got Paul Anka's guarantee!
(Guarantee void in Tennessee)

Just don't look. Just don't look.


And here I was trying to construct a haiku. laugh.gif

I think Romney is a retard. I'm not going to apologize. Taking these people seriously makes them serious.
Aquilla
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Oct 26 2012, 08:33 AM) *
QUOTE(Aquilla)
As far as Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin are concerned.... who really cares?


Obviously you don't (no surprise there). You're fine with ignorance and bigotry as long as it comes from your team, but as far as the Hillbilly from Wasilla goes, John Franklin Stephens does care. The 30-year-old Special Olympian with Down's Syndrome cares quite a bit.




Actually, point of order here. I think you have your hillbilly mixed up with the blonde bimbo. I think John Stephens was referring to Ann Coulter's "retard" remark (which I do find highly offensive regardless of who says it). I'm not going to lose any sleep over it though, any more than I do over stupid things Bill Maher (a friend Ann Coulter by the way) says. The two of them deserve each other (just please, please don't pro-create).

So, what to do about it? I suppose we could have a food fight over it here about which
"side" is more offensive, your mashed potatoes or my grits. Might be entertaining for awhile, but with the price of food these days.......


Aquilla
AuthorMusician
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Oct 26 2012, 09:54 AM) *
QUOTE(lo rez @ Oct 26 2012, 09:47 AM) *
To stop these monsters one-two-three
Here's a fresh new way that's ttrouble free
It's got Paul Anka's guarantee!
(Guarantee void in Tennessee)

Just don't look. Just don't look.


And here I was trying to construct a haiku. laugh.gif

I think Romney is a retard. I'm not going to apologize. Taking these people seriously makes them serious.


It's usually noisiest before the fall. However, this whole Twitter deal and Facebook have opened up a side of celebrity that wasn't seen so clearly before. Right now people can't help but look at the dirty laundry and tweet to each other about how badly it smells. There's also the freak sideshow appeal of dull wits coming through sharp tongues, rubbernecking at train wrecks, and I wish I could think of a word or metaphor for people who fake laugh when cornered.

Ah well, less than two weeks now. I suppose things will get stranger before the dust settles.

BoF
Here's what surprises me. Sarah Palin has a Down's Syndrome child. Yet she has not criticizes Coulter's use of the word "retard." I would suggest that Palin has a severe case of "same team" syndrome.
Aquilla
QUOTE(BoF @ Oct 26 2012, 01:16 PM) *
Here's what surprises me. Sarah Palin has a Down's Syndrome child. Yet she has not criticizes Coulter's use of the word "retard." I would suggest that Palin has a severe case of "same team" syndrome.



Good to see you back, BoF. Hope you're feeling ok.

I would think Sarah Palin would be offended by the term, but didn't think it would serve any purpose to get into a cat fight with Ann Coulter over.

Aquilla
Amlord
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Oct 25 2012, 11:12 PM) *
So if Coulter and Palin decide to simply cut to the chase and call Obama a "nigger" that wouldn't be offensive to you. Just politics. Got it.


That word is so passe. I also heard it ten times in the last week come out of my son's IPod by black musicians. The "N word" simply doesn't carry the same meaning as it did when you and I grew up.

QUOTE(nighttimer @ Oct 25 2012, 11:12 PM) *
Growing a thicker skin is not a defense against incivility, ignorance and race-based hatred as exemplified by two of the Right wing's favorite centerfolds. If calling someone a "retard" isn't offensive, are we now free on ad.gif to dismiss any debate we disagree with as "retarded" and the debater as a "retard?"


Growing a thicker skin is the ONLY defense. Should I be insulted by what you think my opinions are? Should I be insulted if someone thinks I'm dumb, or a racist, or hate women or want poor people to starve? No, because they aren't true and I know it. My thick skin protects me from being offended by your opinion of me.

Coulter does what she does. She throws out bombs to get a reaction. As Pavlov predicted, here you are reacting.

Newsflash: Everyone in the country knows that Barack Obama is half-black. If that affects their vote, then it has already affected their vote. Palin's use of a fairly obscure (but not unknown) term to describe the administration's treatment of Benghazi is not a racial epithet, even if you and Rachel Maddow and other MSNBC types are offended, unless she intended it as a racial epithet.

Words that used to be inflammatory have entered into the vernacular. They don't mean the same thing with the same context as before. Which is why we can say bitch and crap and various other things on TV now.


QUOTE(BoF @ Oct 26 2012, 02:16 PM) *
Here's what surprises me. Sarah Palin has a Down's Syndrome child. Yet she has not criticizes Coulter's use of the word "retard." I would suggest that Palin has a severe case of "same team" syndrome.

Perhaps she isn't offended by it? "Retard" is a pretty common school yard insult these days.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(Aquilla @ Oct 26 2012, 03:06 PM) *
I would think Sarah Palin would be offended by the term, but didn't think it would serve any purpose to get into a cat fight with Ann Coulter over.


It would serve the same purpose that all of the rest of their commentary serves.
A cat fight between those two? Candidly? Even I would pay money to see that one. Especially if Sarah could beat the Bejesus out of Coulter, and I'm sure she could.

It would generate far more revenue than Palin's reality show. Throw down the gauntlet now, Sarah! A percentage of the proceeds from sponsors could be used to fund the debt. innocent.gif
Bikerdad
QUOTE(Amlord @ Oct 26 2012, 01:45 PM) *
Perhaps she isn't offended by it? "Retard" is a pretty common school yard insult these days.
"These days"?!? It's been a common schoolyard insult for generations.
AuthorMusician
QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Oct 26 2012, 05:19 PM) *
QUOTE(Amlord @ Oct 26 2012, 01:45 PM) *
Perhaps she isn't offended by it? "Retard" is a pretty common school yard insult these days.
"These days"?!? It's been a common schoolyard insult for generations.


Not so. In my schoolyard, it was nimrod. We were too young to get the Biblical and historical connections. Now I know that the great hunter and leader went and built the Tower of Babel, which didn't work out so well. Therefore, being a nimrod is being really stupid with a good load of arrogance.

However, remember Palin jumping all over Letterman? Yep, she practices highly selective outrage, but hey, it seems par for the course in Republican thinking these days.

I also would pay good money to see a Coulter-Palin smack-down. In this corner, weighing in at 75 pounds, the reigning lightweight champion, Cranky Coulter! Her challenger, weighing in at 105 pounds (by her scale), Provoked Palin! All right, no hitting below the belt, no hair pulling, no scratching, and may the best bitch win! (Channeling Jersey Housewives here via The Neighbors.)
nighttimer
QUOTE(Amlord @ Oct 26 2012, 03:45 PM) *
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Oct 25 2012, 11:12 PM) *
So if Coulter and Palin decide to simply cut to the chase and call Obama a "nigger" that wouldn't be offensive to you. Just politics. Got it.


That word is so passe. I also heard it ten times in the last week come out of my son's IPod by black musicians. The "N word" simply doesn't carry the same meaning as it did when you and I grew up.


Really? Why don't you try testing that theory? Walk up to the first Black person you see, regardless of age and say, "Hello, nigger," or "Hey nigger, you got the time?" Next time you're at work, go talk to your bestest Black buddy, put an arm around his or her shoulder and say with a smile, "You're not one of those overly sensitive niggers who get offended by being called a nigger, are you?"

If you don't get cussed out or knocked out, maybe your preposterous assertion will be proven to be true. What I'm certain of is while ignorant rappers who use "nigga," a bastardization of the slur, to entertain shallow White kids who think they're getting a musical tour of life in the 'hood, and Samuel L. Jackson and Chris Rock can make money off of saying, "nigger", it remains a pejorative and an insult to the majority of 36 million African-Americans.

"Nigger" does carry the same meaning as it did when I grew up. It's not a funny word or a term of endearment and it certainly isn't a compliment. (Usain Bolt is one fast nigger. Halle Berry sure is pretty for a nigger. Barack Obama is one smart nigger. )

I have no idea what meaning it had to you growing up. But if you think it's okay to say "nigger" because some rapper hustling White kids for money says so, you really haven't grown up at all.

But go ahead, Amlord. Explain to your boss and the Human Relations department when you called a Black employer a "nigger" it was okay because Black rappers use that word all the time and you kept count of how many times you heard them say it while your son was listening to them last week.

I doubt a Nikki Minaj defense will work in the face of an EEOC complaint, but if you believe it will, give it a shot.

QUOTE(Amlord)
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Oct 25 2012, 11:12 PM) *
Growing a thicker skin is not a defense against incivility, ignorance and race-based hatred as exemplified by two of the Right wing's favorite centerfolds. If calling someone a "retard" isn't offensive, are we now free on ad.gif to dismiss any debate we disagree with as "retarded" and the debater as a "retard?"


Growing a thicker skin is the ONLY defense. Should I be insulted by what you think my opinions are? Should I be insulted if someone thinks I'm dumb, or a racist, or hate women or want poor people to starve? No, because they aren't true and I know it. My thick skin protects me from being offended by your opinion of me.


Wrong. Growing a thicker skin is NOT the only defense. The opinions of people I don't know mean nothing to me, but that doesn't mean I have to suffer in silence their dumb, racist, misogynistic or selfish opinions. It doesn't mean you're not dumb, racist, misogynistic or selfish because you say you're not. Your thick skin may only be shutting out the truth of how you really are to others from sinking in to your thicker skull.

To say if you're on the receiving end of a racist insult, it's your fault for taking offense and that's absurd. The person who makes the nasty crack is the one responsible for any nastiness that ensues.

Palin and Coulter can't slither off the hook for their offensive remarks when others take offense.

QUOTE(Amlord)
Coulter does what she does. She throws out bombs to get a reaction. As Pavlov predicted, here you are reacting.


The Pavlovian reaction here is your slobbering defense of Coulter and Palin. At the sound of the bell, you begin to drool this utter idiocy that "nigger" no longer means anything.

QUOTE(Amlord)
Newsflash: Everyone in the country knows that Barack Obama is half-black. If that affects their vote, then it has already affected their vote. Palin's use of a fairly obscure (but not unknown) term to describe the administration's treatment of Benghazi is not a racial epithet, even if you and Rachel Maddow and other MSNBC types are offended, unless she intended it as a racial epithet.


Here's another newsflash for you: White people in America? Still racist.
QUOTE
WASHINGTON (AP) Racial attitudes have not improved in the four years since the United States elected its first black president, an Associated Press poll finds, as a slight majority of Americans now express prejudice toward blacks whether they recognize those feelings or not.

Those views could cost President Barack Obama votes as he tries for re-election, the survey found, though the effects are mitigated by some Americans' more favorable views of blacks.

Racial prejudice has increased slightly since 2008 whether those feelings were measured using questions that explicitly asked respondents about racist attitudes, or through an experimental test that measured implicit views toward race without asking questions about that topic directly.

In all, 51 percent of Americans now express explicit anti-black attitudes, compared with 48 percent in a similar 2008 survey. When measured by an implicit racial attitudes test, the number of Americans with anti-black sentiments jumped to 56 percent, up from 49 percent during the last presidential election. In both tests, the share of Americans expressing pro-black attitudes fell.

"As much as we'd hope the impact of race would decline over time ... it appears the impact of anti-black sentiment on voting is about the same as it was four years ago," said Jon Krosnick, a Stanford University professor who worked with AP to develop the survey
.


"Shuck and jive" is obscure? Based upon what? You know what it means. I know what it means. Sarah Palin definitely knows what it means. Is there no limit to how far you will go as a Palin apologist. Perhaps you, Sean Hannity and the other Fox News crew want everybody to agree with you that Palin is so stupid she doesn't know what the words she uses means, but just because you're drinking the Kool-Aid doesn't mean I'm thirsty.

QUOTE(Amlord)
Words that used to be inflammatory have entered into the vernacular. They don't mean the same thing with the same context as before. Which is why we can say bitch and crap and various other things on TV now.


Nobody here is on TV and if you don't think "bitch" means the same thing anymore, try calling a female employee a bitch and see how that works out for you.

QUOTE(Amlord)
QUOTE(BoF @ Oct 26 2012, 02:16 PM) *
Here's what surprises me. Sarah Palin has a Down's Syndrome child. Yet she has not criticizes Coulter's use of the word "retard." I would suggest that Palin has a severe case of "same team" syndrome.

Perhaps she isn't offended by it? "Retard" is a pretty common school yard insult these days.


Palin was offended plenty two years ago. What's changed now besides Coulter is a conservative and Rahm Emanuel is not?

And does anyone here still play on schoolyards? No? Then we can make the wild assumption we're all ADULTS here and what flies on a schoolyard doesn't fly in the world of grown-ups.

On this board you can't call a Black debater a nigger or say they are "shucking and jiving." You can't call a female debater a bitch. You can't call another debater a retard. You're a Moderator, Amlord so correct me if I'm wrong about any of that.

And you can't do it it in the world of grown-ups without being called on it and suffering the consequences. For supporters of Coulter and Palin, it's a reason to blow it off as no big deal. For everyone else it confirms how detestable these two classless women are.

Notice I did not call Coulter and Palin "bitches." According to you, I could have and it would be all good. dry.gif
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